Roland V-Combo VR-09

[garnermike]

Good to know because I have that issue with the EV-5. I was contemplating getting the EV-7 but at $229 I would be highly miffed if it didn't work!

Buy a Yamaha FC7 ($38) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-FC7-Volume-Pedal-/190836634584?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2c6ebff3d8

 

with the Ashby adapter ($20) http://music.ashbysolutions.com/misc.htm

 

and you'll be good to go. It has that nice smooth, long throw you are looking for.

 

Hey, thanks so much for this lead! I'll give it a try!

 

Hey, thx again Delaware Dave for this suggestion. The Ashby adaptor and my Yamaha pedal came today. That Yamaha pedal is really well built, with very, very nice action and good gradation! Just a hair behind the control of my SK1 + EP-50 pedal set-up, but still really good. This is definitely the answer to the VR-09's (and VR-760's, VR-700's, I'll bet) volume pedal issue.

[garnermike]

That's interesting.... you have an SK1 and you prefer the C/V and the leslie sim of the VR 09 to that of the SK1?

 

I actually hate to get into comparing, because you always seem to offend someone. But from what I can tell this VR09 sim stacks up pretty well.

 

The VR09 sim didn't give me anything NOT not like, during the brief time that I heard it. It sounded good on both slow and fast. And the Roland C/V sounded good too. Right up there with some of the best that I have heard.

 

A few of the other issues have been discussed, we don't have to go there. I was actually hoping that this could be something I could use. I love the idea of the weight.

 

Garnermike - how do you like the EP's compared to the SK1? I didn't get enough time with them.

 

 

I can't really give an authoritative answer---I so rarely use EPs. But to my inexperienced ear, the SK1's EPs are a bit better, but not by that much.

[HammondDave]

Hate to keep ragging on Roland (actually, no I don't)... but Mike Martin just posted this on the Casio PX-5S thread... They are up to revision 10... and its also a $999 keyboard... released just about the same time as the VR-09.

 

You will notice that all of these updates are IMPROVEMENTS on the design (from perusing this list and listening to musicians)... not bug fixes... They dealt with the bugs much earlier.

 

This is the difference between a company that cares about its customers, and one that... well, you be the judge...

 

 

"The v1.10 Firmware Update has just been posted.

http://support.casio.com/download.php?cid=008&pid=340&rgn=1

 

It includes the following updates:

Improving the Key Follow function of Hex Layer.

Adding a portamento function to the Melody tones and the Hex Layer tones.

Adding a volume control to the Audio Recorder.

Adding a volume control to the Damper Noise.

Adding Toggle Mode to the Pedal Function.

Adding MIDI Rx message filters.

Expanding the frequency range of the Master Equalizer.

Expanding the frequency range of the DSP Equalizer.

Adding a Fine tune to the DSP Pitch Shifter.

Adding a Bypass to the System Effects and the Master Effects.

Adding a destination parameters to the controllers (Knobs, Sliders, Modulation and Pedals).

Adding a calibration function of the position of the Knobs.

Adding a sample waves to the Hex Layer.

 

We've also gone through and revised/improved a number of the Stage Settings.

 

Instructions on installing the update:

 

[video:youtube]

_________________________

-Mike Martin

Casio America, Inc."

 

[garnermike]

Hate to keep ragging on Roland (actually, no I don't)... but Mike Martin just posted this on the Casio PX-5S thread... They are up to revision 10... and its also a $999 keyboard... released just about the same time as the VR-09.

 

You will notice that all of these updates are IMPROVEMENTS on the design (from perusing this list and listening to musicians)... not bug fixes... They dealt with the bugs much earlier.

 

This is the difference between a company that cares about its customers, and one that... well, you be the judge...

 

 

"The v1.10 Firmware Update has just been posted.

http://support.casio.com/download.php?cid=008&pid=340&rgn=1

 

It includes the following updates:

Improving the Key Follow function of Hex Layer.

Adding a portamento function to the Melody tones and the Hex Layer tones.

Adding a volume control to the Audio Recorder.

Adding a volume control to the Damper Noise.

Adding Toggle Mode to the Pedal Function.

Adding MIDI Rx message filters.

Expanding the frequency range of the Master Equalizer.

Expanding the frequency range of the DSP Equalizer.

Adding a Fine tune to the DSP Pitch Shifter.

Adding a Bypass to the System Effects and the Master Effects.

Adding a destination parameters to the controllers (Knobs, Sliders, Modulation and Pedals).

Adding a calibration function of the position of the Knobs.

Adding a sample waves to the Hex Layer.

 

We've also gone through and revised/improved a number of the Stage Settings.

 

Instructions on installing the update:

 

[video:youtube]

_________________________

-Mike Martin

Casio America, Inc."

 

I have owned several Casios, and it's clear to me that the company is making leaps and bounds improvements in their KB's compared to other KB makers. As an aside, I use a CTK-6000 (and before that used a CTK-5000) as my left-hand bass "ax" in my trio. Why? Because of a single factory pre-set bass patch that is phenomenal compared to every other KB makers'. I've had bass guitar players swoon about the deep low, smooth bass sounds that patch can produce.

 

That said, if Casio's drawbar'ed models (CTK-7000, XW's, WK's) had as good a clone organ sound and rotary sim as the VR-09, I would own one of them and not have invested in the VR-09. But Casio is not there yet.......

[RetroVintageOld]

If only the PX5 was black...

[brenner13]

Yep, a couple of Casios got a got a close look from me too, but just couldn't deal with the weak organs. The rotary in the Korgs bend my ear. VR09 wins with clone wheel in this price range, but still looking for a DP and EP fix...hmmm PX5 or SV1? Gotta get to those other threads.

[LX88]

Maybe we need to talk to Mike Martin to see if Casio could get more onto the clonewheel thing.

 

I bet they could put something together with non weighted keys, EP's and synth sounds for under 1000 dollars.

[Messiaen]

For the same price as a Nord Electro 4 it is feasable to buy BOTH the vr-09 & the Casio PX5S, as the casio seems to have great pianos and EPS, great layering ability, the VR-09 has the drawbar organ,good drums, some nice SN solo voices, & deeper editing of synth capacity....plus you could hook them up for 2 manual keys as well, quite a lot of hardware for £1500 ($2000!

[Craig MacDonald]

I think you're absolutely right! Even if you're not satisfied with the AP/AP's on the VR-09 it's still a great option to use as a second tier Drawbar organ and VA synth. You can't find another drawbar organ and VA synth for anywhere near this price.

[Craig MacDonald]

I can't really give an authoritative answer---I so rarely use EPs. But to my inexperienced ear, the SK1's EPs are a bit better, but not by that much.

Based on my recollection, I think they quality of the EP's are comparable between SK1 and the VR-09, that said I think the VR-09 has better Acoustic Pianos, and more importantly the VR-09 has:

 

1. A much more comprehensive set of sounds (the SK1 doesn't even have warm strings), along with a complete VA synth!

 

2. The ability to layer any two sounds and one sound does NOT have to be the organ (even if the SK1 had warm strings you could not layer them with an acoustic piano).

 

Overall, I would suggest that the VR-09's capabilities in the area of extra sounds/voices are quite a bit better than the SK1, they are more comprehensive, for the most part better quality (with the odd exception like in the EP/Clav area) and it has a full VA synth and no limitation as to what two sounds you layer.

[Craig MacDonald]

Hate to keep ragging on Roland

Well Dave if you hate ragging on Roland so much ;-) why are you doing it with such passion (including pages of upgrade details and videos for Casio)..??? Is this really necessary in a VR-09 thread? Seriously I don't understand why so many of you guys are trying so hard to sabotage this product????

 

Dave, I understand that you personally don't want to see any compromises whatsoever when it comes to hammond clones, but not everyone can afford to pay the price for perfection and some don't care if their drawbar organ has reverse colour preset keys, waterfall keys, and perfect chorus/vibrato, they just want something that's inexpensive and sounds good!!! There you go.. that's the VR-09! It's a great inexpensive all-in-in one that's a great first keyboard (if you value drawbar organ), it's a great second tier hammond clone, and for all that it does it's great value at under a grand!

 

With respect to the OS upgrades.. this product has only become available in the last two weeks and not yet in significant volumes, how about we give Roland 3-4 months to gather early life feedback, before we start ragging about an OS upgrade!!!!

 

How long did it take Hammond to get around to fixing the high trigger problem, a year or more (a problem people complained about from day one)? I would expect that most of the real bugs will be fixed very quickly and the timing of an OS update will depend on Roland's strategy.. do they want to release a hundred little updates or one or two big ones..? Maybe there's a bunch of new functionality coming..? Some of the things we don't like are design issues and fixing bugs is one thing, but changing the design is another thing entirely, they're not going to make design changes without being sure that they're the right things to do, and this often takes a bit of time.

 

So Dave, I have to ask... you don't even own a VR-09, and obviously you'll never buy one, so why are you continuing to shit all over the VR-09 at every opportunity? Any chance you could give us a break?

[NeedMoreBass]

, but still looking for a DP and EP fix...hmmm PX5 or SV1? Gotta get to those other threads.

 

Unfortunately neither is the perfect answer.

For EP's the SV1.

For AP's, weight, and a great keybed the PX-5S.

[Ken Beaumont]

The AP sounds of the VR-09 sound pretty darn good when played by my SV1-73! It even has half pedaling. This combination is working well for me. It takes up very little space and the 73 key SV1 is a lot easier to haul than its 88 key big brother. This thing only weighs 6 lbs more than my MOX8 and being smaller its really much easier carry outside the case.

[Craig MacDonald]

The AP sounds of the VR-09 sound pretty darn good when played by my SV1-73! It even has half pedaling. This combination is working well for me. It takes up very little space and the 73 key SV1 is a lot easier to haul than its 88 key big brother. This thing only weighs 6 lbs more than my MOX8 and being smaller its really much easier carry outside the case.

I agree with you.. the AP's are very good when played through a weighted action keyboard.. I played them using my Yamaha KX8 controller in split mode with organ on the VR-09 and Acoustic Piano on the KX8 and it worked well and the acoustic piano sounded very good.. lot's of subtlety, so much better than when played on the 61 note VR-09 keyboard. However, that's to be expected given the differences between an 88 note weighted action keyboard and a 61 note none-weighted. The Roland Rep told me that the acoustic Pianos were Rolands top of the line GX sampled pianos.

 

I think they're fine sounding AP's, very workable for my purposes.

[HammondDave]

Hate to keep ragging on Roland

Well Dave if you hate ragging on Roland so much ;-) why are you doing it with such passion (including pages of upgrade details and videos for Casio)..??? Is this really necessary in a VR-09 thread? Seriously I don't understand why so many of you guys are trying so hard to sabotage this product????

 

Dave, I understand that you personally don't want to see any compromises whatsoever when it comes to hammond clones, but not everyone can afford to pay the price for perfection and some don't care if their drawbar organ has reverse colour preset keys, waterfall keys, and perfect chorus/vibrato, they just want something that's inexpensive and sounds good!!! There you go.. that's the VR-09! It's a great inexpensive all-in-in one that's a great first keyboard (if you value drawbar organ), it's a great second tier hammond clone, and for all that it does it's great value at under a grand!

 

With respect to the OS upgrades.. this product has only become available in the last two weeks and not yet in significant volumes, how about we give Roland 3-4 months to gather early life feedback, before we start ragging about an OS upgrade!!!!

 

How long did it take Hammond to get around to fixing the high trigger problem, a year or more (a problem people complained about from day one)? I would expect that most of the real bugs will be fixed very quickly and the timing of an OS update will depend on Roland's strategy.. do they want to release a hundred little updates or one or two big ones..? Maybe there's a bunch of new functionality coming..? Some of the things we don't like are design issues and fixing bugs is one thing, but changing the design is another thing entirely, they're not going to make design changes without being sure that they're the right things to do, and this often takes a bit of time.

 

So Dave, I have to ask... you don't even own a VR-09, and obviously you'll never buy one, so why are you continuing to shit all over the VR-09 at every opportunity? Any chance you could give us a break?

 

Craig, my friend... Don't you know me better than this? Did you not read the hundreds of comments I made on the Hammond Suzuki SK1? I am a total nut when I see companies not take the steps to produce products that are ready for prime time.... And/or make questionable design decisions. I am a total product nut... With a slight touch of anti-corporate fever.. I admit it.

 

On the other hand, I applaud companies like Casio who place knowledgable representatives on this list to listen to us... And to make changes in their product to make them better. That's why I noted Mike Martin's excellent service as both a musician and a Casio corporate representative... Where is the Roland Rep? Is it you? If it is, then please talk to your bosses and have them fix this product.

[Craig MacDonald]

BTW, the SV1 and a VR-09 would also make a very nice gig rig.. Personally I like the SV1 keyboard feel and it's built in AP/EPs.. and I think with this in combination with the VR-09 drawbar organ and it's VA synth and other sampled sounds, and you have most bases covered, and the SV1-73 is available most places for well under $1200. Great rig!!

[Craig MacDonald]

Craig, my friend... Don't you know me better than this? Did you not read the hundreds of comments I made on the Hammond Suzuki SK1? I am a total nut when I see companies not take the steps to produce products that are ready for prime time.... And/or make questionable design decisions. I am a total product nut... With a slight touch of anti-corporate fever.. I admit it.

Dave, Dave, Dave, your passion for gear is one of the reasons I have all this brotherly love for you ;-)

 

I am the eternal optimist, until I'm burned.. then I'm a bulldog.. let's just give Roland a reasonable period of time to fix this stuff, and if they don't... let the bitchin begin!!!

 

And I'll be right beside you!!

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Where is the Roland Rep? Is it you? If it is, then please talk to your bosses and have them fix this product.

Didn't see this comment.. no I'm not a Roland rep, although because I'm pretty stoked about this product I can see some might wonder that.. I purchased my VR-09 at Cosmo Music in Richmond Hill and happened to get to know the Roland Rep, because he demo'd the VR-09 and RD-64 product for me about 6 weeks ago, and then he met with me to help me sort out the problems I was having with the iPad editor which we managed to fix (simple midi setting problem)..

 

He's a great guy, and I have been emailing all of my issues/thoughts on the VR-09 and I'm confident that he's passing them on to Roland.

[brenner13]

The AP sounds of the VR-09 sound pretty darn good when played by my SV1-73! It even has half pedaling. This combination is working well for me. It takes up very little space and the 73 key SV1 is a lot easier to haul than its 88 key big brother. This thing only weighs 6 lbs more than my MOX8 and being smaller its really much easier carry outside the case.

I agree with you.. the AP's are very good when played through a weighted action keyboard.. I played them using my Yamaha KX8 controller in split mode with organ on the VR-09 and Acoustic Piano on the KX8 and it worked well and the acoustic piano sounded very good.. lot's of subtlety, so much better than when played on the 61 note VR-09 keyboard. However, that's to be expected given the differences between an 88 note weighted action keyboard and a 61 note none-weighted. The Roland Rep told me that the acoustic Pianos were Rolands top of the line GX sampled pianos.

 

I think they're fine sounding AP's, very workable for my purposes.

 

I must have bunk samples of AP's in my VR 'cause I think they sound great as long as you don't let them ring more than a second. When I try to play some soft, tender piece with long sustain, those short loops kick in...makes me want to throw the thing across the room (it's light enough to). It's not as bad when running through my stage rig (stacked K12 and PRX15), but can't even LOOK at the piano button when the headphones are on.

[LX88]

I guess we are only supposed to say good things about a piece of gear someone else has purchased....

 

Regarding something like having vibrato in the percussion, That's a deal breaker for me. And if the EP's are suspect(read above post from VR 09 owner).... why would I want to spend the 1000 dollars?

 

As far as Casio goes, Mike Martin is a good guy and we need more like him. I was able to speak to him at NAMM and tell him why even though I was initially interested in the PX-350, I thought that they didn't quite get it for what my needs are.

 

And that is what we do on this forum. If a piece of gear works for us, we spread that information and if it doesn't, hopefully we can say why and back it up with facts.

 

Buyer Beware.

 

These facts are meant as useful information for potential purchasers. There is nothing I hate more than to spend good money for something and find out that it doesn't quite cut it.

 

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

I guess we are only supposed to say good things about a piece of gear someone else has purchased....

 

No one is suggesting that you can't share your opinion. I think sharing it repeatedly is the issue, because when you do, that it seems as if you're trying to sabotage the product.

 

Regarding something like having vibrato in the percussion, That's a deal breaker for me. And if the EP's are suspect(read above post from VR 09 owner).... why would I want to spend the 1000 dollars?

 

That's your opinion, perhaps others won't give a rats ass about the percussion issue (none of the VR-09 owners even noticed it!!) If you dont' see the value in a drawbar organ + sample engine + VA synth for under a grand than that is your opinion. I happen to think that it's great value.

 

Buyer Beware.

 

By using this phrase its obvious that you're trying to warn people about this product.. WTF? Because you happen to be completely fixated with Chorus/Vibrato (it's pretty much all you ever talk about), maybe you think this is a deal breaker but others won't give a crap about it.

 

How about you state your opinion and leave it at that rather than repeatedly posting the same negative crap over and over and over again?

 

[Craig MacDonald]

I must have bunk samples of AP's in my VR 'cause I think they sound great as long as you don't let them ring more than a second. When I try to play some soft, tender piece with long sustain, those short loops kick in...makes me want to throw the thing across the room (it's light enough to). It's not as bad when running through my stage rig (stacked K12 and PRX15), but can't even LOOK at the piano button when the headphones are on.

In hindsight I probably should have said that the AP's sound BETTER (rather than very good) when played using a weighted action keyboard.. The fact is that I find the short loops very annoying too, when I'm playing solo piano, slow ballads etc.. I notice the loops right away (and I think I posted that earlier in my initial review). However, depending on how you're using them, I think they could be perfectly satisfactory.. For me, playing primarily up tempo classic rock, these pianos and even the EPS's will work fine for me. Hope that clarifies my position on the AP's.. I'm with you Brenner13 I hate hearing these loops. BTW when the rep told me they used the GX Samples, is it possible that they did but they shortenend them in such a way that the looping is more noticable?

[LX88]

I am not fixated on chorus vibrato. But it's an important part of any organ.

 

You are the one calling my posts " negative crap". No other list members are saying this about what I post.

 

There are others who would say the same things I do and not have their posts labeled as "crap". Someone like Dave Ferris or Hammond Dave can tell it like it is. I actually appreciate candid and honest impressions, particularly whan they are backed up by fact.

 

The person who posted before me said he felt like throwing the VR 09 across the room. And he owns one. Is his post negative crap?

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

I'd say that comments like "buyer beware" towards this product is negative crap!

[LX88]

My " buyer beware" statement is all encompassing , not aimed at this piece of gear in particular. And you are still calling my statements negative crap.

[Mike Martin]

Maybe we need to talk to Mike Martin to see if Casio could get more onto the clonewheel thing.

 

I bet they could put something together with non weighted keys, EP's and synth sounds for under 1000 dollars.

 

Interesting thought.

 

For now, honestly if you take the XW-P1, use the system EQ to roll some of the high end off our drawbar mode and add a Vent, I think you'd be surprised. Instead of doing rotary, the insert effects can do a pretty good CV simulation. I wish I were a better organ player. Time to go practice.

 

[LX88]

Clonewheels are very popular Mike, and possibly easier to emulate than acoustic pianos.

 

I am not interesting in adding a Vent to anything because of expense however. In some cases it is not necessary, and this is what I am hoping to see.

 

Hammond quality CV is probably not practical on the Casio because, how would you separate percussion? The same issue the VR 09 has ( and no, I am not obsessed. This is just fact).

 

I am glad you thought the idea is interesting. Also, I enjoyed meeting you at the "Red Key " Lounge at NAMM. Your enthusiasm for your work and products is infectious, and it is going to lead to great rewards - hopefully for all of us.

 

By the way, Mike is not the kind of guy to insult me if I don't like his gear!

[voxpops]

I think most of us here would agree that the VR is a real mixed bag. I don't think anyone will love everything about it, and some will not find sufficient in it to satisfy their needs, but a percentage will, on balance, find it does enough to warrant a purchase.

 

For me, the discovery that I can get an organ sound that is much closer to an M-series + 147 than is possible using the Numa on its own, widens my available sound spectrum. That, coupled with the synth engine, lightweight chassis and easy operation, provides sufficient to justify the purchase.

 

The bugs and thoughtless oversights are very disappointing - how long has Roland been in this game? The APs are not "top of the line" as implied by the marketing, as it takes more than a bunch of short samples derived from other, more expensive boards to make a playable instrument, and the EPs are a bit of a joke, to be honest, compared with most other $1k+ boards today. However, I knew that I would only be using this in conjunction with a lower-tier piano-based board, and so, while it would have been a nice bonus to have those additional sounds, it was not a deal-breaker for me.

 

I don't have a problem with the criticisms posted here, as the balance of competing views starts to create an image in the mind of potential purchasers of a board that is never going to be all things to all people - which is obviously true. So far, the PX-5S comments seem to be skewed into significantly more positive territory; hopefully that will remain the case as more people get one, which would indicate a stunning value at the same price point. If someone is looking for a piano-centric board for $1k, for example, the weight of negative comments here, as opposed to positive comments there, will hopefully direct them toward a more satisfying outcome. The reverse might well be true for organ, although they need to be aware of issues such as the percussion/CV overlap, so they can decide if it's a major issue for them, or not.

 

All-in-all, respectful discussion and criticism has to be good. No?

[LX88]

As long as it is respectful. Name calling is not.

[Ekewaka]

I'm definitely of the opinion that someone should try the VR-09 out without a blind online purchase, unless one is willing to possibly pack and ship back the unit. It's a very 'polarizing' product, indeed.