Vent + 1-keyboard setups

[keyman27]

I recently jumped on the Ventilator bandwagon. I don't think I can play without it now that I've experienced the difference (even if no one in the audience cares).

 

For folks with a dedicated clonewheel (nothing but organ sounds), the Vent is not that much more trouble to set up -- another wallwart, another audio cable. For those of us with a keyboard that does organ sounds AND everything else, it's a different story. I'm struggling with simplifying my setup and getting the right gain structure. Right now I'm stepping on the bypass switch when I'm not playing organ. But if I want to play piano/synth AND organ at the same time, I have to route the organ sounds to Output 3 or 4 on the NS2. That's easy enough. But now I have two keyboard lines instead of one. Because I double on violin on many of my gigs, that means I'm up to 3 mono lines this way. I only have 2 inputs on my K10, unless I resort to connecting one live via the RCA jacks on the K10. Also, with these random gigs I do with 7-piece bands, short setup times and cranky sound company guys, I am pushing my luck if I ask for 3 DIs.

 

So I know the answer is "get a mixer". But that means yet another wall wart and lots more cables. I just don't want to set up all this crap, and often I don't have time. All I really need is to make my 2 keyboard lines back into one, and life is good. So now I'm looking at battery-operated mini-mixers, like this one: Nady 4-channel mixer But I have my doubts over whether these little mixers are up to snuff... will they buzz, etc.

 

One other headache is getting the gain just right. It seems like the Vent needs just the right level of signal to sound great and not light up the clip light. I had to learn not to touch the main volume knob on my NS2, but instead change the piano volume knob when I want the piano louder -- otherwise I'd change the organ signal too.

 

It's all an extra level of complexity that takes away from the beauty of the Vent experience. Maybe the Vent is not worth it unless you have a dedicated clonewheel. Thoughts / advice?

 

 

[Sven Golly]

It's all an extra level of complexity that takes away from the beauty of the Vent experience. Maybe the Vent is not worth it unless you have a dedicated clonewheel. Thoughts / advice?

 

The Nord is 'harder' or 'more complicated' to play than an acoustic piano, yet you've adjusted to that, right?

 

Suck it up, get a mixer, optimize your setup so that it's only another 30 seconds to get set up. Your overall sound and performance will be better for it. Every single thing you complain about is solved with a mixer, and you're overthinking the 'complexity' side of things.

[AnotherScott]

The Mackie 402-VLZ3 is so small, you might be able to velcro it somewhere where it can be left physically attached and possibly even partially wired, to cut down on the "extra pieces and extra wires" problem... which does add up.

[Malpaugh]

If you do go with a mixer you might want to try the ART Powermix III. It can be run as 3 stereo channels or 6 mono. The Nady stuff scares me.

[timwat]

Rack mount and prewire. You'll reduce it to a 15 min setup.

[Delaware Dave]

this mixer takes 2 minutes to setup and is very small.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolls-MX28-Three-Channel-Mixer-blue-/320973787020?pt=US_Live_Studio_Mixers&hash=item4abb874f8c

[Tonysounds]

Keyboardists are the laziest bastards when it comes to gear. Im not saying Im any different. But my level of acceptable work is higher than most keyboardists I know.

 

Suck it up, get a mixer, and if really, the extra 2 minutes of setup is more than you can afford, leave 5 minutes earlier, and give yourself 3 minutes extra time at the club to take a dump. (Im sure youre Jimmy Johns fast at that too, right?)

 

I mean honestly: youll take a $3500-4000 instrument and run it through a $50 battery powered mixer? Why not just get one of those awesome personal keyboards with the speakers built right in?

 

[AnotherScott]

I'm another fan of fast setups. The fewer cables, the fewer trips to the car, the lighter the equipment, the better. Even if you plan to get there early, sometimes, for one reason or another, you don't. Or you're in a situation where the time just isn't available, like after another act, or at a wedding where you're setting up in a room where you're not even allowed to bring the equipment in until after the ceremony is over. And of course, at the end of the night, the faster the teardown, the better!

 

It is so easy to justify each improvement that will add 5 minutes... until you have a half dozen of them and have added a half hour. Still, I have resisted the temptation to gig with nothing but a Microstation. ;-)

[PinkFloydDudi]

Sounds like you are asking to be able to drive at 180mph in your car, but then complaining that you go through a lot of gas. Can't have things both ways - the more stuff you have, the more you have to adjust your setup.

 

I previously was using a 2-keyboard setup. Adding a mixer to my rig actually DECREASED the amount of setup time I needed. Rather than having to find 4 DI's (or 2 stereo), I simply purchased 1 single "4-cable" snake(http://images.guitarcenter.com/products/optionLarge/LiveWire/DV016_Jpg_Large_1274034477745_A.jpg).

 

So now I have 4 pieces of equipment:

1) Keyboard #1

2) Keyboard #2

3) Rack

4) Keyboard stand

 

In the rack, is my mixer (I use a MoTu 828mk3 ultralite). All cables stay connected even when I put everything away. So I setup my keyboards, then open my rack and take out the 4-cable snake for the 2 keyboards, and already have a stereo "main out" for the FOH guys.

 

Add into that rack a power conditioner, and you can keep all of your power plugs in 1 spot too so you only need to plug your conditioner in and everything else is already plugged into that.

 

If I hustled, 5 minutes and I was up and ready to go - (and with the mixer, I am able to give myself my own in-ear mix so that 5 minute setup time included getting me my monitor!)

 

 

The ability to have everything plugged in and ready to simply roll out to your keyboards and to the FOH guys is WELL worth the time and money it costs to add a mixer to your rig.

 

 

 

On a slightly off-topic note - I have thousands of dollars worth of equipment - and the ONE thing I very much need and will make my list turn to "5 things" I bring instead of 4...is one of those $10 drink holder things that attaches to a mic stand!!!!!

[zoooombiex]

I resisted the mixer thing for a while, but I finally got one of the rolls mini-mixers and it has saved a lot of setup time. I have it pre-wired into a pedalboard with all the pedals for the various instruments, so I plug in one power cord and everything comes on. And the pedal chains for each instrument are pre-wired into their respective channels on the mixer. So I just plug in each instrument and then one line out from the mixer to the amp.

[keyman27]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I'm not especially lazy. I just often have no setup time on these ridiculous gigs I end up on. And after some thought, I realize I am losing time setting everything up from scratch. I start with everything shoved in a duffel bag -- that is dumb.

I think I'll try the pedalboard solution with a small mixer. That would turn my big bag of unconnected gear and cables into more of a pre-wired solution.

[Sparky2]

I suggest a small, lightweight 2-space SKB rack with a 1U line mixer and one of these 4-channel passive isolated rack-mounted DI . Both pieces are shallow and the Vent can be stored/transported in the back of the SKB rack with your cable loom = easy carry and set up. When you use outside production, the sound company takes your feeds from the DI and your mixer settings only affect your personal monitor(s).

 

Mark

[Electro Fan]

Hi,

 

I have been looking to streamline my cable mess on stage and also have a two keyboard setup. I was looking at the snake you linked, but I am confused as to how this works. It seems that this is an 8 channel setup. Can you explain how you send your board to the mixer and also to FOH? Sorry for what may seem obvious, but my brain as become more feeble with the lenghth of my day.

 

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you are asking to be able to drive at 180mph in your car, but then complaining that you go through a lot of gas. Can't have things both ways - the more stuff you have, the more you have to adjust your setup.

 

I previously was using a 2-keyboard setup. Adding a mixer to my rig actually DECREASED the amount of setup time I needed. Rather than having to find 4 DI's (or 2 stereo), I simply purchased 1 single "4-cable" snake(http://images.guitarcenter.com/products/optionLarge/LiveWire/DV016_Jpg_Large_1274034477745_A.jpg).

 

So now I have 4 pieces of equipment:

1) Keyboard #1

2) Keyboard #2

3) Rack

4) Keyboard stand

 

In the rack, is my mixer (I use a MoTu 828mk3 ultralite). All cables stay connected even when I put everything away. So I setup my keyboards, then open my rack and take out the 4-cable snake for the 2 keyboards, and already have a stereo "main out" for the FOH guys.

 

Add into that rack a power conditioner, and you can keep all of your power plugs in 1 spot too so you only need to plug your conditioner in and everything else is already plugged into that.

 

If I hustled, 5 minutes and I was up and ready to go - (and with the mixer, I am able to give myself my own in-ear mix so that 5 minute setup time included getting me my monitor!)

 

 

The ability to have everything plugged in and ready to simply roll out to your keyboards and to the FOH guys is WELL worth the time and money it costs to add a mixer to your rig.

 

 

 

On a slightly off-topic note - I have thousands of dollars worth of equipment - and the ONE thing I very much need and will make my list turn to "5 things" I bring instead of 4...is one of those $10 drink holder things that attaches to a mic stand!!!!!

[DanL]

+1 on the rack mount mixer setup. Yes, you have 1 extra thing to carry, but it has everything in it and you can prewire things and zip tie common cable runs together so it really takes a lot less time to set up than carrying a small tabletop mixer around. I have my vent in the rack too, and use a footswitch that is prewired and run along with my audio cables for my keyboards. That cable ends about 4' from the ends of the audio cables so it lays on the floor in the right spot and there is enough extra on the audio lines to reach the outputs of my keyboard.

[Skinny]

I just built a rack for myself last week, used it for the first time this past weekend. I'm guessing it saved me about 25 minutes of setup time.

[mynameisdanno]

My NS2+Vent+Mixer solution is a Pedaltrain Mini. The Vent, ART PowerMix III, and Radial JDI Duplex fit perfectly. In the outer pouch on the Pedaltrain's gig bag, I have the two wall warts, the remote footswitch for the Vent along with a 3 foot TRS cable, and a headphone breakout adapter so I can just send the right channel from the PowerMix's headphone outs to my K10. The PedalTrain sits on the floor to my left. Easy access to Vent and Mixer controls.

 

I was skeptical, but I've been very pleased with the sound quality on the PowerMix.

 

A lot of reviews online complain about the strap placement on the Pedaltrain Mini, but they're not doing it right. You wear it like a sling bag, and then adjust so the pedalboard rides flat against your back (or chest, leaving room for a backpack).

[PinkFloydDudi]

Hi,

 

I have been looking to streamline my cable mess on stage and also have a two keyboard setup. I was looking at the snake you linked, but I am confused as to how this works. It seems that this is an 8 channel setup. Can you explain how you send your board to the mixer and also to FOH? Sorry for what may seem obvious, but my brain as become more feeble with the lenghth of my day.

 

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you are asking to be able to drive at 180mph in your car, but then complaining that you go through a lot of gas. Can't have things both ways - the more stuff you have, the more you have to adjust your setup.

 

I previously was using a 2-keyboard setup. Adding a mixer to my rig actually DECREASED the amount of setup time I needed. Rather than having to find 4 DI's (or 2 stereo), I simply purchased 1 single "4-cable" snake(http://images.guitarcenter.com/products/optionLarge/LiveWire/DV016_Jpg_Large_1274034477745_A.jpg).

 

So now I have 4 pieces of equipment:

1) Keyboard #1

2) Keyboard #2

3) Rack

4) Keyboard stand

 

In the rack, is my mixer (I use a MoTu 828mk3 ultralite). All cables stay connected even when I put everything away. So I setup my keyboards, then open my rack and take out the 4-cable snake for the 2 keyboards, and already have a stereo "main out" for the FOH guys.

 

Add into that rack a power conditioner, and you can keep all of your power plugs in 1 spot too so you only need to plug your conditioner in and everything else is already plugged into that.

 

If I hustled, 5 minutes and I was up and ready to go - (and with the mixer, I am able to give myself my own in-ear mix so that 5 minute setup time included getting me my monitor!)

 

 

The ability to have everything plugged in and ready to simply roll out to your keyboards and to the FOH guys is WELL worth the time and money it costs to add a mixer to your rig.

 

 

 

On a slightly off-topic note - I have thousands of dollars worth of equipment - and the ONE thing I very much need and will make my list turn to "5 things" I bring instead of 4...is one of those $10 drink holder things that attaches to a mic stand!!!!!

 

Hey Bill,

Sorry I should have clarified - the pic was of an 8-channel snake...I actually own both a 4-channel one, and an 8-channel one.

 

Below is how my 4-channel would be setup. (I would use the other 4 channels on the 8-cable snake when I use the AUX outputs on the Kronos)

 

Cable 1/2 go to Kronos L/R

Cable 3/4 go to the Korg CX3 L/R

 

All 4 channels then get plugged into the rack mixer (MOTU 828mk3 ultralite). I then create 2 mixes.

 

Mix 1 (MOTU Main Output L/R): Goes to the FOH as a single stereo output

Mix 2 (MOTU Aux output 1): Goes to my in-ears and gets mixed together with whatever mix the monitor guy is able to send me which would include the rest of the band.

 

Let me know if you have any more questions!

 

Another great way to minimize cable issues is to create a snake for your pedals! Can do that as easily as using some black electrical tape!

[Electro Fan]

Thanks for clarifying the 8 vs. 4 channel snake. I now see how this works with the two keyboard rig. Do you recommend a brand or retailer for a four channel snake? I have found a couple TRS 4 channel snakes on Amazon, but wonder if you have one that has held up well for you? Also, what cable length is your snake?

 

Again, thanks for your input and help. I like the idea of the pedal cable snake, but I use a couple of different pedal set-ups depending on the gig.

 

Bill