Korg SV-1: from GAS to pass?

[Doerfler]

I had to stop in GC this morning (I know, right?)to buy guitar strings as I didn't have enough time to get to Washington Music Center before work. I played a SV-73 for the first time. I have to say I really liked the action. Couldn't get too much of an impression of the sounds, but seems like it would fit nicely on top of my A-100. Waiting for the Roland RD 64 though, that price point is nice. Time will tell.

 

just saw my post from 2 years ago because this thread was resurrected. Never bought either a SV-1 or a RD-64. Right now my Wurlitzer 200 lives on top of my Hammond A-100. Don't have to move them, just gonna keep it that way.

[AnotherScott]

And there is something about the knobs, lack of LCD and the tube drive that just give it character.

I agree. But despite that, I do wish it had a small LCD display that would just give you the name of the sound you had selected. That's the one problem it has in terms of ease of use. Once you choose one of the labeled Sound Types, there are still 6 possible sounds selected with the second knob, and there's no way to tell which sound you've selected until you play a note. (Same with the 8 Favorites.) If you're "looking" for a sound, you can't "find" it except by trial and error. But I guess since there are only a total of 40 possible sounds, it's not too terrible to print out a list of the 40 sounds and tape it to one of the end panel surfaces, or some such.

[AnotherScott]

Thanks for that great info, AnotherScott. I'll have to check those boards out, see what I can find. You've given me some good targets. Scott, didn't you use to have a SV1?

 

Someone mentioned a PX310 as a "Casio with soul," and I just spotted one in the classifieds in my area (Tel Aviv).

I did pick up an SV1, which I haven't used much, but yes, it is a joy to play EP on it. I generally want something lighter than that to gig with, though. BTW, I was also able to tweak the EPs on the MP7 to get them pretty close sounding to the SV1.

 

The PX310 has a Wurly sound that I like a lot, but not Rhodes. There are other old Casios like the CDP-100 and PX500L that have a Rhodes I like a lot, but not Wurli!

[teddyc1]

Wow, all the comments are so helpful.

 

Scott, good point about the lack of any display makes it impossible to read which sound you're on. But I'd bet a little paper and/or a bit of memorization (from constant use) could solve that.

 

David Doerfler - sounds like you're plenty happy with your real Wurly + Hammond - that's soooo good!

 

As for the SV1 loyalists, it sounds like there are quite a few people with SV1's which are holding up quite well with NO PROBLEMS, and finding them inspiring to play. (Such as: FunkKeyStuff, AnotherScott, mcgoo, Toano88, & Dave_Number_Four. Impressive.)

 

It seems that the earlier keybed either had problems out of the box/within a few days of hard playing, OR it was just fine. With the newer RH3 keybed (June 2012 going forward) I haven't seen ONE negative post yet about that keybed. That's impressive. Looks like Korg has not gotten enough points for scoring a major victory in quality control. I guess the problem is, sales have not yet motivated Korg to create a more functional editor.

 

Nord: Still a contender in my book. I have to say that the HP keyboard might have been my whole problem with the Electro 4 HP, the sounds are probably pleasing to me but the action just sucks the fun out of it. Yet, both the 2nd hand offers (Piano 88 & Piano 2) have disappeared too quickly. I guess the Nord fandom is alive and well over here.

 

Yet, even the Nord keybeds (Fatar TP/40) bring out some complaints, causing some to switch to the Y CP5 or similar.

 

Yamaha: As I lurk around here, it seems people *never* complain about the Yamaha keybed; and several say the EP's on the CP5 or CP4 sound as good or better than the SV1 or Nord. However, it seems the Yamaha distributor in Israel only works with the P105, P35, and P255. Those EP's were kinda "meh," just like the GUI. But maybe I can cope.

 

Casio: Looks like I can knock the PX310 off my list cuz no decent Rhodes; and other Casios are unexciting, although gotta remember that the PX150-PX A100-PX350 are about half the price of the SV1/Electro 4 HP, and a quarter the price of Nord Piano 2.

 

Kawai might be off the list, since I don't know if I can find an MP7 around here; I played an ES7 or ES8, but that's a different animal.

 

Roland: Apparently 1 store here actually has a V-Piano, should be fun to check that out. FP-7F model is nowhere to be found here these days, probably the only FP that could be considered approaching pro quality.

 

So, process of elimination, I guess I'm looking at Nord Piano2/Stage2 (depends on keybed/price/how I like the sounds) vs the Korg SV1, IF and only if there's no soft-note cutoff on the SV's that I test. With the SV1, I already know I like the feel of the action and the sounds, it's just the lack of upgrades and reliability issues that worried me.

 

 

 

[Six-string-man]

Before you write Casio off, you should check out the PX-5S. There are some amazing sounds in it, and the price is right.

 

 

SSM

[teddyc1]

I would definitely check out the PX-5S - if only I could find one!

Is the PX3 similar, or not really?

[teddyc1]

since EP and hammer action is more my style, and also AP, after trying the Electro4 I just can't consider it. The SV1 is still in the running for me, IF the keybed issues are sorted out and people are still getting good reliable use out of it in 2015.

 

As for the CP4/Nord Piano, I'll search the forums for any news about the EP/AP sounds they contain.

The Nord Piano EPs won't be any better than the Electro 4 EPs that disappointed you.

 

Other boards worth checking out that haven't been mentioned: Kawai MP7, Kurzweil Artis, Casio PX-5S. The Casio has the same action as the Casios you mentioned, but better (and more customizable) piano and EP sounds. Similarly, the Kawai has the same action as the ES7 you mentioned, but better and/or more customizable piano/EP sounds. The Artis should feel about the same as the Nord 4HP you tried, but of course has Kurzweil's piano/EP sounds.

 

Can't find the PX5s over here, only the PX3, but perhaps online only-not in a showroom.

Nord: I can't tell if my problem with the EP4HP was the action, or the EP sound. It's like the soft action just short-circuited any appreciation for the sound I might have had. Who knows it might feel great when played with a good hammer action, I just don't know yet.

MP7 - still looking to see if one can be found.

 

This guy played the SV1 softly in 2013, even in the lower registers, and I didn't spot any velocity or cutoff problems. Judging by the reverse-color keybed, I'd guess it's an example of the newer fixed-up RH3's:

 

[video:youtube]

 

The video doesn't embed inline into the post for me, for some reason; I don't know if it does for you guys, but anyway it's well worth checking out. No talking, no blahblah, just a good player with a variety of soft & loud styles.

 

[teddyc1]

Why is this zombie thread making me GAS for... a Nord Piano again, FFS?

 

Haha Aidan, what is it about the Piano? The twiddly knobs?

I realize you've owned both the SV1 and NP in the past.

 

Several others have told me that the CP4/MP7 have better sound than either the SV1 or the N Piano, and tweak able AP & EP. But both the Korg and the Nord have something the others don't have: twiddly knobs.

 

Or maybe that's not it. I don't know, I've not yet owned any of those.

[Dave Number Four]

Speaking of twiddly knobs, the SV1 does have an issue where the calibration of some of the effects knobs doesn't really make sense. For instance, I'm thinking of the reverb level knob, where for some of the reverb types, 0 is off, 1 is already very wet, and 2-10 are even wetter.

 

This might be fixable from the editor software, but I never got around to trying.

[Josh Paxton]

The reverb knob is one of my pet peeves about the SV. 0 is none, 1 is way more than I ever want, and 2 to 10 range from "useless" to "comical."

[Joe Muscara]

The reverb knob is one of my pet peeves about the SV. 0 is none, 1 is way more than I ever want, and 2 to 10 range from "useless" to "comical."

I'd like to see that labeled.

 

[teddyc1]

Hi Dave, is this it?

 

This is from page 47 or 48 of the editor manual, depending on manual version.

I can't tell if saving these knob positions is only for saving into a patch, or if this saves into the effect itself:

 

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/teddyc1/Kley%20Musica/Sv1%20manual%20pg%2047-48%20reverb.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[teddyc1]

The reverb knob is one of my pet peeves about the SV. 0 is none, 1 is way more than I ever want, and 2 to 10 range from "useless" to "comical."

I'd like to see that labeled.

 

Well then, turn it up to Ludicrous Speed.

 

But really, that's quite a serious bug. And if it were fixable by scanning the manual for 5 minutes, one of you probably would have done so.

 

Speaking of pet peeves, what else is wrong with the SV1?

 

[teddyc1]

I couldn't find the "ludicrous" reverb on the SV1 today (black, 73, RH Japan).

 

All the effect level knobs are calibrated correctly: No more "0 reverb, 1 reverb, and 1 thousand reverb."

No more note cutoffs; even at low velocity keystrikes in the lower register.

Keybed sounded evenly all across. No physical gaps between E/F etc.

 

I did hear that "tape hiss" every time an amped note is played. Very sad :-(

So that's the one remaining problem that I found.

 

No CP4, but I did try a CP5 with its great action and piano sound.

I didn't "get" the EPs, and the organs actually were quite crummy.

 

For me the MP7 has got all that down, together with an intuitive interface.

And real sliders that the drawbar organ can use.

Great APs.

EPs that bark and amp sims that bite when tweaked.

 

I couldn't seem to get the CP5 to bark or bite at all. But all two of the APs sounded fantastic.

 

I have a Mac mini (Intel) but my laptop is old (G4) and maxed at OS 10.4.11. So no korg USB driver there. So unless I'm wrong, only with a USB midi interface would the SV1 be able to control AP's on the Powerbook. The manual is not clear on that and neither are the inter webs.

 

Is the korg USB driver necessary only for the Editor, or for the midi as well?

 

 

 

I'm glad the MP7 came up in conversation. It might win it for me.

 

Have to say tho, even with the white noise hiss in the SV1 amp sims, there's something about the EP sound that just grabs you.

 

Maybe it's presence. Maybe it's tube. It's just feels warm somehow.

 

By the way, I heard nasty digital-style clipping when amps are overdriven on MP7 and SV1. Didn't do the Stage2 on that test because I couldn't figure out how to really rock those amps there.

 

Ah right, I remember one of the Korg engineers said on the NAMM 2015 vid that the tube is for low power. So it's not for overdrive then. But perhaps the tube accounts for the warmth?

 

 

[teddyc1]

I'd really like to hear any response about the "secret sauce" in SV1's sound. But meanwhile I will post more compete thoughts about today's comparison of Sv1, Nord E4HP & S2HA, K MP7, & Y CP5:

 

Apparently the Yamaha importer here does not have the CP4, only the CP1.

However I tried out a 2nd hand CP5 today. And a shop floor model MP7 for sale as well as the SV1 73/88 and the NP2/NS2. It seems to me that:

 

1) MP7 is much more intuitive to my mind than CP5;

2) MP7 APs are as good as CP5, both better of course than Nord/Korg.

3) I can't stand the Nord action; and the AP and EP sounds are not up to par;

4) SV1 seems to have a "presence" in the sound that's cool;

5) I checked for all the classic SV1 problems and they're all gone, on the black 73 i tried in the shop. Soft-playing cutoff notes, wacky reverb knob, wacky velocity triggering, all gone. Only thing is the white noise hiss when an amp is engaged. Which is pretty annoying.

 

Would you think that "presence" is in the samples, or in the tube?

Other than that, the MP7 beats out the SV1, because the EPs are just as good, and the pianos and organs are better. I admit the AP is nice on the CP5, better than Nord, but I think a tie with MP7. But EPs and organs play & sound better on the MP7 I think. But I think you're an AP guy, but still, the AP action/sound on the Mp7 is up there with the CP5 and with similar weight.

 

Haven't tried the CP1 yet but I get the feeling it's Yamaha's VPiano. So not for me, but very nice.

[mo-ship]

I gigged with an original red 73 key SV1 for a couple of years and sold it to fund a Kronos, and have regretted selling it ever since!

 

It's not even close to being a swiss army knife type stage piano, but it has solid EP's AP's and Clav that are all very useable in live situations.

 

The SV1 will go down as a classic board, because it has a certain character to it. Especially the, EPs they down sound like any other board.

 

Oh, and those EP's with a splash of the onboard vintage chorus or tremolo, if played in STEREO are amazing.

[AnotherScott]

Apparently the Yamaha importer here does not have the CP4...

However I tried out a 2nd hand CP5 today.

 

CP4 has an additional piano sound that is not in the CP5, and has better EPs. Also simpler interface and lighter weight. The action feels different, and which feels better is a matter of personal taste.

[teddyc1]

@mo-ship: Sounds like you've had great live experiences with the SV1!

 

@AnotherScott: Great! Over here, since no CP4 (or PX5S, or Kurz) is available and the CP5 EPs (& Nord) just don't do it for me, it's down to MP7 vs SV1.

 

On that, one question is: buzz/hiss in the amp section. Ok for live, but not for recording and headphones. MP7 amp sims don't have that hiss, but SV1 amps do, so I wouldn't use those for recording - but then, the SV1 tube is completely out of the equation!

 

I found a workaround: turn off the amp section, and use the "drive" instead (to the left of the amp section) and turn up the "speed" and "intensity." That overdrives the sound without using the sims and introducing the hiss/buzz. Again, as I understand it, the tube is only used when the amp sims are turned on.

 

So - comparing apples to apples, without the tube, does the SV1 still have that "special sauce sound," that livens up its EPs to have more punch than the MP7?

 

OTOH, Back in 2010 JerrytheK gave a suggestion for editing the amps in the software and playing with the levels to reduce hiss.

 

Has anyone tried this, and did it work?

 

For those here that use their SV1, this might be helpful if the hiss/buzz in the amps has ever bothered you.

 

The old post:

 

Jerry the K wrote:

You've started to go in the right direction by opening the Editor, but you're not going to make any changes in the hiss by playing with the RX Noise/Layer control. You want to work with the Amp Sim controls themselves. Carefully experiment with the Pre Volume and Amp Volume to get the tonality you want, and use the Power Attenuator, Prog Level and the Noise Reduction circuit in the Speaker Sim section to accommodate the amount of gain you created from the Amp Sim controls.

 

Read up about them in the Editor Manual, Pages 34-42.

 

This works like a real guitar amp, and I have never heard a tube-based guitar amp that doesn't product some level of noise. As digital keyboardists we are not presented with this situation, so we get used to cleanliness. But digital-simulated distortion doesn't sound like the "real deal". So there will be some balance, or trade-off you'll have to deal with to get this authentic tube-based sound.

 

If you can't accept a little authentic hiss then you could consider the above suggestion, and get your amp simulation through external effects/plug-ins. But experiment and get to know the Amp Sim section using the Editor - it's quite powerful, being based on our Vox ToneLab range of products.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Jerry

Korg Guy

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2170151/Korg_SV_1_How_to_remove_noise_

 

[AnotherScott]

Teddy, check the thread at

www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2313379/

[teddyc1]

Thanks, AnotherScott; that is a very good thread. I did read it a few days ago; very informative chat between you, Voxpops, lekanout, with others chiming in from time to time. The "upside down shake" fix for the silent keys, the tweaks for A/Bing the Mp7 with the SV1, discussion of quality keyboards of the "stage" variety great stuff. :-)

 

 

[teddyc1]

One nagging problem for me is the noisy amps in the SV1. For me, if I choose the SV1, I'd use it in recordings, not just live. I've done some homework on the noise issue; here's what I found:

 

OK so the noise reduction is explained a little on page 40 in the Editor software manual. Basically you go into the Cabinet section and it's there. Like JerrytheK had said, you adjust both level knobs but also the "NR Sens" (noise reduction sensitivity) knob and try to find the right compromise. I encourage anyone with an SV1 who's annoyed by the amp hiss to go into the Editor, see what you can do, and post the results.

 

BTW, does anyone have the Mac software handy? The old pre-Intel USB/Midi driver and Editor software? My home Mac runs 10.8 but my laptop runs 10.4.11 which did fit the requirements of the original Korg software, which is no longer posted on their site. PM me if you're able to email or dropbox it over.

 

Back to noise reduction, I think it's going to be real tough to eliminate the amp/tube noise in the SV1. Why do I say that? Because that's what the guitar forums are saying about the VOX ToneLab ST and EX. And that "Valve Reactor" tech from VOX is the same stuff inside the SV1 (Korg bought VOX).

 

In fact, cranking up the NR Sens too high will result in the ends of notes being cut off. This is written in the ToneLab manuals; guitarists would be more familiar with this, because they're accustomed to working with noise. So - remember back when the SV1 factory Soundbank had short cutoff on the one of the pianos? That was probably noise reduction. People complained and Korg kindly adjusted the NR Sens in the Cabinet section and included that with the newer Soundbank releases. If that's how they did it (well, we know they didn't change the piano sample in the ROM), that adjustment might have allowed a bit more noise with the piano, but I daresay nobody noticed.

 

The good news is:

1) The hiss is not part of the sample;

2) There's a very slim chance that further tweaking the NR Sens knob might fix it;

 

This would not matter too much for the SV1 as purely a live keyboard. But for anyone who wants to use the SV1's tube & amps in recordings, this tweak would be of interest. Here's what it looks like from the SV1 Editor manual pg 40:

 

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/teddyc1/Kley%20Musica/SV1%20editor%20pg%2040%20noise%20reduction.png

 

aaaaand, here's the VOX ToneLab LE manual on noise reduction, pg 24:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/teddyc1/Kley%20Musica/VOX%20LE%20noise%20reduction.png

[teddyc1]

MP7 is sounding great with the APs and EPs. I totally hear how the EP is right up there with SV1.

 

CP1 has awesome EPs, I mean awesome. But for the AP, you'd better first like the Yamaha acoustic grands. Maybe I'd need to tweak some more, or let my ears adjust. I'm now in the apples-oranges realm with comparisons, but really, CP1 doesn't cost that much more than a Nord Stage, but with much better sounds and action.

 

PX5S is a contender if weight is a prime factor. To my ears, the APs/EPs sound quite thin compared to the MP7--but maybe that's fine, live.

 

I do most of my comparisons {edit} using my own headphones {/edit} with reverb/efx/amps turned off.

 

[ProfD]

MP7 is sounding great with the APs and EPs. I totally hear how the EP is right up there with SV1.

Until I've had a chance to play a Kawai MP7, IMO, the Korg SV-1 is still the most fun to play DP especially when it comes to EPs. The FTEC (finger-to-ear connection) and real-time controls over the sound just puts it there.

[ESFlash]

I just sold my SV1 88 Black -- it's an interesting box; but I can't say I'm sad to see it go.

 

BTW -- The editor is a must when it comes to shaping the sounds, tone, and efx. The editor is thought out and easy to use. It also permits you to move the sounds and place them in any "slot" you wish.

 

On the plus side - I loved the action, and having simple realtime controls are a plus. The EP's killed and the organs are not bad either. Dedicated XLR's are a thoughtful touch.

 

On the minus...... the AP's are ok. I did extensive editing on the APs via the software and came away with workable AP patches.

 

It's a bit on the heavy side and the rounded sides don't permit you to place the SV vertically when its not in the case -- a minor issue, but it can make set up and strike a bit cumbersome.

 

A few design quirks about the SV interface bothered me.

 

For instance if I edit on the fly with the front panel knobs, and then switch to another sound and then return to the sound I previously edited with the knobs, those edited settings are not remembered; unless you saved that edited sound to one of the eight radio buttons. It would be nice to have an on/off "front panel edit remember" feature so the edit remains even when selecting a different sound.

 

The lack of LCD has been mentioned. The tube thing was a bit gimmicky for me, a little went a long way. I got some juevos and personality on the EPs with it; but for the most part, I didn't have much use for it. It would have been nice to have tube distorto effect assignable to an on/off pedal.

 

People seem to love or hate this board. I think Korg came close, but it in the end it didn't work out for me.

[teddyc1]

BTW -- The editor is a must when it comes to shaping the sounds, tone, and efx. The editor is thought out and easy to use. It also permits you to move the sounds and place them in any "slot" you wish.

 

About the Editor being a must - I see that the USB Midi driver is needed for that, correct?

 

But the older driver is no longer posted. Korg's software page only offers the driver for more recent Macs, the older version that ran on G4 Macs on 10.4.11 is no longer on the website.

 

http://i.korg.com/SupportPage.aspx?productid=562

 

Editor 1.1 *does* run on 10.4.11. But without the USB Midi driver - ??

 

 

[ESFlash]

Sorry can't help you -- I've always been a Windows nerd; never bit the Apple.

 

The SV editor ran great on an older Dell notebook running XP; a machine I've dedicated strictly to audio. I've been into Nuendo for years and when that first came out, eons ago, it only ran under Windows, so in terms of my needs I never switched platforms.

[teddyc1]

Might be only a few Mac users around, so I've asked the dealer to find out for me. Should take him a couple days to hear back from Korg Japan.

 

Meanwhile, I'm hearing from others that the white noise "hiss" in the amp section is not standard across all SV-1's. So it's worth tweaking via the Editor, and also worth checking out different boards.

[mcgoo]

Meanwhile, I'm hearing from others that the white noise "hiss" in the amp section is not standard across all SV-1's. So it's worth tweaking via the Editor, and also worth checking out different boards.

 

Also keep in mind- most keyboards don't have an amp simulator.... so if the one in the SV-1 bugs you, TURN IT OFF! It's hardly a reason to dismiss the keyboard, especially when a real amp will also introduce some noise. Some of the factory patches are noisy because of it, but as Jerry K stated, the noise can be tweaked to be less noticeable via the editor.

[teddyc1]

Also keep in mind- most keyboards don't have an amp simulator.... so if the one in the SV-1 bugs you, TURN IT OFF!

 

Yeah, sure, but then you don't have use of the tube. With clean amp sounds, that tube adds a lot of the charm to the sound, it's not like it's needed only for distortion.

 

It's hardly a reason to dismiss the keyboard, especially when a real amp will also introduce some noise.

 

A real amp should not introduce white noise. And if/when it does, it's noise that's on all the time, not just when you play a note. Playing a note that triggers white noise is not cool.

 

Some of the factory patches are noisy because of it, but as Jerry K stated, the noise can be tweaked to be less noticeable via the editor.

 

Have *you* tweaked the noise out with this method? How well did it work for you?

 

 

And... I'm not convinced that the Editor is ever going to connect via my laptop, since I still have no answer about the USB Midi driver availability for OS X 10.4.11. *That's why* it's much better for me to find a SV-1 with no white noise in the amp sims in the first place, if such a thing exists.

 

[teddyc1]

Thanks everyone for all your help, ideas, and suggestions. I value these very much.

 

 

MP7 is sounding great with the APs and EPs. I totally hear how the EP is right up there with SV1.

Until I've had a chance to play a Kawai MP7, IMO, the Korg SV-1 is still the most fun to play DP especially when it comes to EPs. The FTEC (finger-to-ear connection) and real-time controls over the sound just puts it there.

 

I want to try both again to check the FTEC. But real-time control is there: With the MP7 you just hit a button (like "amp") and then you've got the knobs around the screen for making adjustments (like "cabinet," "drive," etc). Same thing if you hit a different button, such as Reverb.

 

And yes, MP7, CP5/4/40, and Nords have amp sims that don't produce white noise.

 

But I'm hearing from some SV users out there that their SV doesn't have that amp noise, so it's one of those things to check.

 

Next time I'm at the store I'll try out some different SV's and also feel more carefully for the FTEC (like, we need more acronyms around here, really!)