What is wrong with me?

[Bill H.]

So in that regard, the singer is dead one: You cant keep a band together if its not making money.

 

You also can't keep a band together if the gigs aren't any fun. Is it fun to play material you really care about to a half empty room of disinterested patrons that you're not even sure will be there a few months from now, or is it more fun to play music you don't really care about to a packed house of screaming millennials - complete with gorgeous young ladies dancing in front of you all night?

 

Whenever I've asked myself this question as a DJ my answer is "Hell yes!"

 

Your answer may vary.

[J. Dan]

And then there are the usual 2 bands who are clamoring near the top of the food chain wearing (no offense Dan) costumes and wigs and porno moustaches playing shit-awful covers of yet that same material again and packaging is as an ironic wedding band. (Except, like Alanis MoreisLess, they truly dont understand what irony is.)

 

No offense taken, you speak the truth.

 

That said, you can take small amounts of pride in knowing you're at least putting on better shows and covering the songs better than the other 300 bands out there doing it. There's more to a band than the set list.

 

For the musical fulfillment portion, some tidbits of trivia that may offer some enlightenment to my previous post regarding side projects:

1) our drummer has a home studio and records local artists and plays on some of their CD's

2) our singer and guitar player play together in an acoustic duo during the week playing their own versions of whatever the hell they feel like

3) our bass player plays in an original band which had a song that got some local radio AirPlay

4) I have kids (I "jam" with them occasionally, though at 3 and 6, the fulfillment is in areas other than musical)

 

Point being - having other outlets for those things makes it easier to focus on the other aspects of the 80s band that are enjoyable (like drunk bachelorette parties).

[Adan]

I'm thinking back to a Donald Fagen interview I heard or read . . . can't remember where . . . in which he was talking about his early days as a gigging musician playing in an extremely cheesy band. The interviewer asked if that wasn't difficult for him to abide. Fagen expressed no remorse. His answer was something like "you know, if you're playing something that's got any kind of groove to it and the group is doing it well, it can be satisfying."

 

I suppose one difference might be that he was talking about the 60's and it seems to me like bottom-of-the-barrell pop is much worse now than it was then. But that judgement might be skewed by the irrepressible force of nostalgia.

[Fusker]

Get off my lawn!

 

Sadly though, you are spot on for every market.

[Tonysounds]

So in that regard, the singer is dead one: You cant keep a band together if its not making money.

 

You also can't keep a band together if the gigs aren't any fun. Is it fun to play material you really care about to a half empty room of disinterested patrons that you're not even sure will be there a few months from now, or is it more fun to play music you don't really care about to a packed house of screaming millennials - complete with gorgeous young ladies dancing in front of you all night?

 

Whenever I've asked myself this question as a DJ my answer is "Hell yes!"

 

Your answer may vary.

 

No, it doesn't vary. Thats why it is a dilemma. I know I wont hate the stuff as much when a packed room of drunken women are dancing their butts off, and Im collecting $300+ at the end of the nite. But at this end of the story arc, it really sucks! (Im a whore, and I know it. Im playing music I dont hate nearly as much as I did a year agoeven though I still wont listen to it for enjoyment.)

[SpaceNorman]

.... And I hate it. That music gives me an anxiety attack just listening to it. Guitar and synths play the same parts. Can't tell a chorus from a verse. The kind of stuff I would have laughed at when I was 20.

 

And I know that when I walk away from this thing, it'll be a serious bread torque-er. The players are very good. The vocals are very good. But the music is NOT very good, and it'll probably do extremely well with the 25year olds. Do 25 years really want to watch 45 years do this? It's not going to change my mind, but what would YOU do?

 

Being that you asked... I'm alot you in terms of my feelings about most of the current material I find myself playing. However, we differ in how we view your situation. I'd be happy as a pig in slop to be playing in such a band.

 

I would however be all over an opportunity to be part of a group of good players, with very good vocals and the serious possibility that it will be a "serious bread torgue-er" (which I correlate with playing well attended events at the better venues - for crowds that are responding positively to the music). The only thing that I didn't see specifically mentioned in your comments over the course of the thread was whether you truly enjoy the company of your bandmates.

 

I've always been able to find something to like about most tunes I've been asked to play - even if it's simply taking satisfaction in the execution.

[Griffinator]

Get off my lawn!

 

Sadly though, you are spot on for every market.

 

Yep.

 

In this particular market, there are starting to crop up bands that are breaking out of the "sweethomebrowneyedwonderfulrocknrollonaprayerredhouse" etc, etc, etc mold, and they are developing strong followings of their own, made up of bar regulars who are sick of all that old crap.

 

So there is hope...

[CEB]

Right now at least around the clubs and bars I am currently playing if you want to excite 20 and 30 something year old women you play current top-40 country. I don't listen to it much unless my wife or duaghter has control of the stereo in our Nissan Quest. It isn't that bad. Most of it has real keyboard playing in it.

 

But I wouldn't want gig most the stuff I listen to for personal enjoyment. There would be no market for it.

[Joe Muscara]

I've had people here tell me "to play music in Houston, you *have* to be a cover band." Yet, I know quite a few people playing their originals.

 

I'm not saying that either type of act is playing all the time, making big bucks, living off the gigs, etc. I'm just saying I've seen both types of bands playing here.

[Tonysounds]

We have a lot of clubs in Chicago (not the burbs) that specialize in original music. But the pay is shoddy, and usually shared with 2 other bands. I was in a band that managed to overcome that and build a draw playing maybe 3 covers a night in an all nite gig, but those bands are the exception, not the rule. And its worth noting that the band went through multiple line-ups before and as it finally became somewhat of a money-maker, and yet now is almost extinct because it cant sustain itself financially, while everyones life costs dont seem to be freezing with their wages.

[DanS]

I don't want to oversimplify the sitch here, but I recently picked up a Little Phatty which was paid for exclusively from gigs. First time ever.

I'm not proud of the amount of times I had to play Hot Stuff to do it, but I also don't think about that when I'm grooving with Mademoiselle Phatty down in my studio.

[Dave Pierce]

Jesus...I sound like a bitter old fk.

 

Well, that might be true. But everything you said was not only spot on, but had me laughing out loud enough for Audrey to say "what the hell are you reading over there." So I read most of that post out loud to her, and she thought it was funny too. (She's not a musician, but she's been watching me struggle through most of that same BS for a lot of years.)

 

--Dave

 

[Moonglow]

Dbon.do you work as a cover musician? No snarkiness intended, but comments youve made in this and other threads make me wonder if you are so removed from the reality of the gigging rock band/club dynamic that you just dont understand it, or whether you live in a place where people PAY to see good music, and do it often. (If that is the case, WHERE is this place?)

 

When youre talking about COVER bands, you have taken Art (I wont say creativity, but hopefully, without offending anyone, we do understand that there are levels of creativity/art, and that accurately recreating someone elses material ranks pretty low on the Art Ladder, even though it takes a certain amount of craftsmanship) out of the equation, and it is now about economics. People go to bars to get drunk, get laid, hear the music that will facilitate those goals. At least in Chicago, if you want to gig original material, you will work for what I call the burrito and beer tour, meaning at the end of the night, the band will make about enough money for everyone to go get a burrito and a beer. If you want to get paid to play music, you will play covers. How much you get paid is directly proportionate to how many people you bring in. And sadly, truly sadly, what brings people in are bad Rap Cover Bands (meaning 5-10 goofs onstage with no instruments, with asses hanging OVER the top of their pants, girls with hotpants or less, and hood ornaments around their necks), or an endless array of bands playing the same 43 songs consisting of BonJourneyBoy, Oreo StyxWagon, Dont Stop The Heavin Jesses Brown Eyed Girl Workin for the Weekend in the Summer of 69s , buttressed by some unheavy version of Enter Sandman, Rock You Like A Hurricane, and Panama. But then of course, the are the truly unique bands who will do medleys of those songs.

http://www.macosxaudio.com/forums/download/file.php?avatar=4674_1263587685.gif

 

And then there are the usual 2 bands who are clamoring near the top of the food chain wearing (no offense Dan) costumes and wigs and porno moustaches playing shit-awful covers of yet that same material again and packaging is as an ironic wedding band. (Except, like Alanis MoreisLess, they truly dont understand what irony is.)

 

All of which leads to the sad truth that if you want to perform music outside the studio or your basement/garage, you will be a participant in one of those above scenarios, or be playing for your girlfriends (for a while) and the wait staff at your corner pub. There is nothing wrong with that. But when $$$ enters the equation, all dignified thought goes out the window, and the lowest common denominator wins.

 

Doubt me?

 

How many pages is the Sweet Home Alabama thread?

 

How many times has someone started a thread wanting to know how to play the arpeggiated riff in Working For The Weekend (guilty), or the intro to Turn Me Loose, or looking for the tab to Jump?

 

Ive played all sides of the fence, doing nothing but original music, slogging it out on three band bills for burritos and beer until we built a following, toured across the country for years in a van/trailer, played in wedding bands where the $$$ was very good. And you know what? It all ends the same way: eventually, if the band is not making money, it breaks up, either because of disinterest (first by audience, or club talent buyers, then eventually by the band), or lack of return on their investment (whether that investment equals to time, financial remunerations, or artistic/spiritual fulfillment). Doesnt matter what kind of music you do, or the way you do it (solo/duo/band/at home). If youre not getting back, you stop putting in. And when it comes to performing live in front of an audience, its just not about YOUR renumeration.

 

So in that regard, the singer is dead one: You cant keep a band together if its not making money.

One of the most scholarly dissertations I have read. Nominated for post of the year!

[CrimsonianKing]

Well said, Tony.

[Musicale]

Dude,

This is just a sign that you're gettin' old. Happens to the best of us. Pretty soon you start forgetting where you put stuff, what key the tune is in etc.

 

Time to play for your soul unless you need the bankroll

 

Musicale

[Griffinator]

But I wouldn't want gig most the stuff I listen to for personal enjoyment. There would be no market for it.

 

Oh, come now. I guarantee that a rural southern bar crowd would just eat this right up!

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KanzSuaPsM

[EscapeRocks]

Tony,

 

Like Dan Duran, I also concur with the gist of your sentiments.

I also understand where you're coming from with the non-enjoyment factor. Luckily I do have a very good "day" job, so until my Journey tribute came together and took off, I was able to pick and choose the cover bands based on what they were covering.

 

While every cover band will have songs that not everyone in the band enjoys, if you can't connect with most of the songs, it does become painful (at least for me), and I'm sure that translates, even subconciously, to my stage presence. Based on that, and my personal situation, I wouldn't take such a gig.

 

Also, your experiences in Chicago somewhat parallel what we see in Dallas, although there tends to be only one tribute band per artist being covered

The bands that are constantly in demand for nightclubs from dives to big "A" rooms are the tribute bands, and specialized cover band, such as Dan's 80's band.

There are very good original, yet unsigned, bands around here and with the exception of a special event show now and then, do not pull in the general weekend "want to listen to music" crowd.

The demographics of our normal audience is 20's to 40's, which always amazes, but pleases me. Hell, we have a return engagement at a sorority party at a major college in December. The youngest member in our band is 39, the oldest (me) 49.

 

All in all, I think there's been a ton of good advice in this thread, and I have enjoyed reading all of it.

I told you what I would do. At this stage of my life, music is my escape (no pun) and the fact I make money is even better. I will not play in a situation that I gnash my teeth every time I gig.

 

Depending on your circumstances, Tony, you're too good a player, and too experienced to be in a situation that you would end up resenting playing.

 

just my $.02

[HammondDave]

Dbon.do you work as a cover musician? No snarkiness intended, but comments youve made in this and other threads make me wonder if you are so removed from the reality of the gigging rock band/club dynamic that you just dont understand it, or whether you live in a place where people PAY to see good music, and do it often. (If that is the case, WHERE is this place?)

 

When youre talking about COVER bands, you have taken Art (I wont say creativity, but hopefully, without offending anyone, we do understand that there are levels of creativity/art, and that accurately recreating someone elses material ranks pretty low on the Art Ladder, even though it takes a certain amount of craftsmanship) out of the equation, and it is now about economics. People go to bars to get drunk, get laid, hear the music that will facilitate those goals. At least in Chicago, if you want to gig original material, you will work for what I call the burrito and beer tour, meaning at the end of the night, the band will make about enough money for everyone to go get a burrito and a beer. If you want to get paid to play music, you will play covers. How much you get paid is directly proportionate to how many people you bring in. And sadly, truly sadly, what brings people in are bad Rap Cover Bands (meaning 5-10 goofs onstage with no instruments, with asses hanging OVER the top of their pants, girls with hotpants or less, and hood ornaments around their necks), or an endless array of bands playing the same 43 songs consisting of BonJourneyBoy, Oreo StyxWagon, Dont Stop The Heavin Jesses Brown Eyed Girl Workin for the Weekend in the Summer of 69s , buttressed by some unheavy version of Enter Sandman, Rock You Like A Hurricane, and Panama. But then of course, the are the truly unique bands who will do medleys of those songs.

http://www.macosxaudio.com/forums/download/file.php?avatar=4674_1263587685.gif

 

And then there are the usual 2 bands who are clamoring near the top of the food chain wearing (no offense Dan) costumes and wigs and porno moustaches playing shit-awful covers of yet that same material again and packaging is as an ironic wedding band. (Except, like Alanis MoreisLess, they truly dont understand what irony is.)

 

All of which leads to the sad truth that if you want to perform music outside the studio or your basement/garage, you will be a participant in one of those above scenarios, or be playing for your girlfriends (for a while) and the wait staff at your corner pub. There is nothing wrong with that. But when $$$ enters the equation, all dignified thought goes out the window, and the lowest common denominator wins.

 

Doubt me?

 

How many pages is the Sweet Home Alabama thread?

 

How many times has someone started a thread wanting to know how to play the arpeggiated riff in Working For The Weekend (guilty), or the intro to Turn Me Loose, or looking for the tab to Jump?

 

Ive played all sides of the fence, doing nothing but original music, slogging it out on three band bills for burritos and beer until we built a following, toured across the country for years in a van/trailer, played in wedding bands where the $$$ was very good. And you know what? It all ends the same way: eventually, if the band is not making money, it breaks up, either because of disinterest (first by audience, or club talent buyers, then eventually by the band), or lack of return on their investment (whether that investment equals to time, financial remunerations, or artistic/spiritual fulfillment). Doesnt matter what kind of music you do, or the way you do it (solo/duo/band/at home). If youre not getting back, you stop putting in. And when it comes to performing live in front of an audience, its just not about YOUR renumeration.

 

So in that regard, the singer is dead one: You cant keep a band together if its not making money.

One of the most scholarly dissertations I have read. Nominated for post of the year!

 

I totally agree. Post of the Year!

 

I would add that when all is said and done, you will probably end up an old man with constant loud ringing in your ears thinking "and I played that crap for years... For this?".

 

Artistically, we all have to make the decision... Money for Nothing... Or starve for integrity... I do not beseech anyone for trying to make a living playing music in bands... But really, even when you are playing popular crap, can you really survive on a burrito and a beer?

[ProfD]

Brotha Tony, you already know my advice is to focus on the jam band.

 

IMO, pouring your energy into your own project (jam band) is better than wasting it chasing an artificial high i.e. getting paid money to play songs you hate to a crowded room. Especially since you don't have to depend on those gigs for income.

 

Surely, it will take time to get the jam band off the ground. But, finding like-minded musos who share your vision and have time to invest in it coming to fruition will make it worthwhile. Playing music will be FUN moreso than a source of anxiety.

 

The harsh reality of being a 40-something year old is that most of our peers have "outgrown" music as a consumbable source of entertainment. They have other priorities and responsibilities.

 

So, it will take creative marketing and promotion to attract younger folks and temporarily get your peers away from their responsibilities and trappings of material wealth.

 

IMO, playing on your own terms is the only way you will be satisfied musically at this point in your life. Going back to the future is not an option. Continue pressing toward the mark with the jam band mayne.

[CEB]

"It's only business" - Sal Tessio.

[Dave Pierce]

Brotha Tony, you already know my advice is to focus on the jam band.

 

IMO, pouring your energy into your own project (jam band) is better than wasting it chasing an artificial high i.e. getting paid money to play songs you hate to a crowded room. Especially since you don't have to depend on those gigs for income.

 

Surely, it will take time to get the jam band off the ground. But, finding like-minded musos who share your vision and have time to invest in it coming to fruition will make it worthwhile. Playing music will be FUN moreso than a source of anxiety.

 

The harsh reality of being a 40-something year old is that most of our peers have "outgrown" music as a consumbable source of entertainment. They have other priorities and responsibilities.

 

So, it will take creative marketing and promotion to attract younger folks and temporarily get your peers away from their responsibilities and trappings of material wealth.

 

IMO, playing on your own terms is the only way you will be satisfied musically at this point in your life. Going back to the future is not an option. Continue pressing toward the mark with the jam band mayne.

 

Not surprisingly, the Prof Speaks the Word.

 

--Dave

[Mididude]

Without having the time to read all the responses you got here, my advice is to play what you love. We all have a finite amount of time in our lives, despite our intentions to be well rounded or expose ourselves to new thinking or new musical situations. Not that I'm an Apple fanboy, but Steve Jobs was right about (the value of) doing what you love. I interpret that as not just applying to the 'day job' scenario, but also in musical pursuits. So if you like the Allman Brothers or Government Mule vs. Arcade Fire (just for example), keep jammin' on those tunes and I would think you'd be happier over the long term (I know I would).

[Tonysounds]

THanks Prof! You guys are awesome. For the time being, I am stretching myself like Elastic Man, and giving the new project some room to take holdor burn me out on it. The last rehearsal, I just went in completely unprepared (because as mentioned, trying to listen to that stuff and learn the one-finger playing was literally making me anxious), and then had my way with it as we rehearsed it. I just took liberties with what was happening, and that seemed to please everybody.

 

Getting together with the new soul project for the first time on Thursday, and going to evaluate the players, their schedules and the trajectory and see what looks good.

Not quite a jam band, but since I will be sort of directing it, I am going to make it clear that group improv is a necessary component.

 

Friday I get to play with my classic rock pals (a great band that just doesnt have the time/inclination to grow, but the players are very skilled, fun to play with, and the material is right up our collective wheelhouse: Jethro Tull, Allman Bros., Santana, War, Moody Blues, Tom Petty, Deep Purple, The Doors), so that will be fun, and Saturday have a PinkFreud gig; we havent played together since Labor Day, everyone is a really really great player (and everyone has great tone!) and weve all been friends for 30+ years (the other guys have known each other since they were in grade school) so at least this weekend will be a musical party.

 

With all the other bull$ht going on in my non-musical life, this will be a nice change of pace.

 

Meanwhile, well see what the new opportunities do.

 

[Musicale]

Hey TS,

 

Where are the gigs this weekend. I may be able to make it out...

 

Musicale

[Tonysounds]

Friday, SKUNK CITY will be at PapaTs, 79th & Harlem, Burbank, IL.

 

Saturday PINK FREUD will be at Cool River, just east of Bell Road on 159th Street, in Homer Glen, IL. Hope to see you there.first one is on me!