Melodic phrasing in improvised solos

[MUSIKRICKARD]

Has anyone got any tips about how to improvise melodically while soloing? Sometimes i feel like I'm just playing what my fingers wants and making sure I'm sticking to the right tonality.. Any tips about how I can learn how to play what I hear in my head?

Sometimes it works, and sometimes not, i guess it has to do with the inspiration.

[JeffLearman]

A tip someone once gave me is to mentally hear each note before you play it. It means you have to play more slowly, but it shifts your mental framework and leads to somewhat different results. Plus it's just good practice.

 

Oh wait ... on re-read it sounds like you're already trying to do that? If so, all I can say is keep trying, and it'll come.

 

I think most of us have to fight that problem of letting our fingers do the thinking. It's called "noodling", and not because we love noodles.

[Joe Muscara]

What kind of music are you playing or trying to play? That would help.

 

If you have trouble playing what you hear in your head, you probably need ear training so you can connect those sounds to your instrument.

[cnegrad]

Sounds like you need an Ear Training/Solfeggio course. It teaches you exactly what you asking for; how to identify the pitches you hear in your head.

[Musicale]

I've had that issue for ever (among others). Lately I have been singing the notes that

I want as I play. With a touch of forethought, you can guide your improvisation. This seems to build upon itself and Voila' it starts to sound pre-meditated.

 

I also like the mention of the ear training class...

 

Regards,

 

Musicale

[marino]

Hearing what you're playing in your inner ear is the final goal. To achieve it, try practicing rhythm and pitch separately, away from the instrument.

 

- In one type of training, you 'sing' your solo, scat-style, keeping time but not trying to nail the notes, just describing a general shape. Try to build phrases that are rhythmically interesting (asymmetrical placement, counter-rhythms, etc.).

- In the second type, you try to sing all notes in tune, or at least to have them clearly in your head. Of course, your phrasing will be *much* simpler this time. For this exercise, you can play the chords, or have an Aebersold-type backing track.

 

At the keyboard, you should practice every type of scale, mode, arpeggio, chromatic approach, etc. in order to build a vocabulary of situations, and to have all those intervals well planted in your hearing memory.

 

It never ends...

 

 

[Phnymiboy]

Always liked this quote:

 

"Think of a note, then don't play it". Miles Davis on the art of improvisation.

[Bill H.]

At the keyboard, you should practice every type of scale, mode, arpeggio, chromatic approach, etc. in order to build a vocabulary of situations, and to have all those intervals well planted in your hearing memory.

 

I like this quote better Miles Davis's quote had more to do with overplaying I think.

[MUSIKRICKARD]

Thanks for all the tips! Actually I'm a guitarist, but I thought this subject were of interests for all musicians, no matter what instrument they might be playing. I'm not new to this form of improvisation, I have already built a personal vocabulary of situations thourought the years, and I'm constantly refining it.

 

But the act of improvisation, as I present it, bothers me. Because one day I'm free as a bird, expressing myself in music without any impediment, and the next day I'm completely out of ideas and get practically nowhere.

I guess this is a matter of inspiration.. And it's hard to specify what exactly is inspiring you.

 

This is me on a good day:

 

For a great musician, even during the bad days they're able to get into it and preform admirably.. Is it because they've accomplished a vocabulary of situations that they can depend on even without any inspiration at all?

[marino]

For a great musician, even during the bad days they're able to get into it and preform admirably.. Is it because they've accomplished a vocabulary of situations that they can depend on even without any inspiration at all?

This - and also the fact that with their long experience of improvisation, they know how to quickly bring on the necessary frame of mind for improvising. So it's not a matter of 'inspiration' anymore, it's matter of finding the right state.

This, *after* having learned everything about music and instrumental technique.

 

 

 

 

 

[mate stubb]

When you practice, think like a singer. Try singing the lines you are playing, or playing the lines you sing. This will teach you the discipline to let melodies breathe.

[Jazzwee]

Something I tried that really worked for me was to connect phrases via a motif. So let's say you open up with a certain phrase, then in subsequent lines, I try to do a call/response or use a similar motif (rhythmically, intervallic, or tonal) on the original motif.

 

Since you have to react to what just happened, it stops the fingers from taking over.

 

I find this helps me melodically.

[Mark Schmieder]

What Mate-Stubb said. :-)

 

I'm lucky that I heard this piece of advice when I was first starting out, so it didn't take long for it to overpower earlier instincts.

 

Another aspect of thinking like a singer when you solo is to consider the solo to be telling a "story". Not all stories have an ending (some are "to be continued"), but the idea is that you are always taking the listener on a journey that they can relate to.

[cnegrad]

Singing your solos is indeed the way to go. But I suggested the ear training/Solfeggio course to refine that process. I've always had big ears, but taking that course honed my skills in a way that really helped my soloing. It helps you hear wide intervallic leaps and non-diatonic notes that you might not be able to readily identify otherwise. I'd recommend this type of course to all musicians. Definitely weight lifting for the ears...

[Michelle ggurl]

I find I play more melodically if I sing (even to myself) what I am playing. I do that a lot when I solo, prolly looks kinda funny, LOL. Maybe I should do the George Benson thing where I sing into the mic while playing, and it would look more "on purpose" ... anyway ... singing really helps phrasing, and at first it might seem awkward. I can't remember how I began doing this, but I think it was a natural, non-intentional thing (I didn't consciously work on it). If it seems alien to you, "sing" to inform your phrasing/melodic rhythm ... at some point it may inform your note choices too, I'm guessing.

[Michelle ggurl]

For a great musician, even during the bad days they're able to get into it and preform admirably.. Is it because they've accomplished a vocabulary of situations that they can depend on even without any inspiration at all?

This - and also the fact that with their long experience of improvisation, they know how to quickly bring on the necessary frame of mind for improvising. So it's not a matter of 'inspiration' anymore, it's matter of finding the right state.

This, *after* having learned everything about music and instrumental technique.

 

 

Yep, and this, too (so I guess what I am saying is even those of us who aren't "great" players can relate to this). I sing better choices when I'm "in the zone."

[GovernorSilver]

When you practice, think like a singer. Try singing the lines you are playing, or playing the lines you sing. This will teach you the discipline to let melodies breathe.

 

This helped open some doors for me as a student of improvisation. When I need a more structured approach to linking what I'm playing with what I hear in my head, I write out little "studies" and then play them.

[GovernorSilver]

This is me on a good day:

 

You do sound free of impediments in this video. As a fellow (part-time) guitarist who noticed the Pat Metheny tag in your video, I recommend Pat Metheny's new guitar etudes book. He has an interesting approach - warming up in such a way that the entire range of the instrument is covered, and also warming up the mind to compose phrases on the fly by making up a Bach-like etude on the spot and playing it.

[JeffLearman]

Always liked this quote:

 

"Think of a note, then don't play it". Miles Davis on the art of improvisation.

[Eric Iverson]

Re: "being in the zone" - I think sometimes we musicians (or whatever else we are doing) aren't in the groove for some reason when we get to the gig, and when things don't go right immediately, we get negative right away and say "this just ain't my night" - which of course can happen to anyone!

But you don't necessarily have to give up right away, either, do you?

 

At my job as translator, there are days when I'm not in the groove, but the WORK STILL HAS TO GET DONE OR I DON'T GET PAID... so I just slog through, and often get into the groove soon enough, once the reflexes take over.

 

I think of professional athletes, who maybe will strike out the first two times they are at bat, but then hit a home run with bases loaded. I guess they can't afford to give up right away, either!

[cnegrad]

I spent years training myself to adopt the right frame of mind to perform. I'm the last person to get "all Zen" or anything, but you really have to know yourself and practice doing it on a regular basis to train yourself to "turn it on like a switch" whenever you play. After a while it becomes second nature. Playing avant guard (sp) back in college helped a lot in that regard.

[CEB]

The teacher that taught me most of what I managed to learn about playing Jazz made me sing and taught the idea of singing melody and relating it to your solos.

 

In grade school and high school I was a horn player and horn players seem to naturally pick up this idea because no matter how good the circle breathing eventually you do need to take a good breath. When you first start you need to breath a lot.

 

Damn I hated singing in front of him but he was right. He also made me sing intervals.

 

My wife was a very good horn player and she has pretty close to perfect pitch. That seems to be a trait I see more often with horn players. I don't KNOW if it has to do with playing melody with the need to breathe or a constant concentration on only one clef.

[stillplaying]

Has anyone got any tips about how to improvise melodically while soloing? Sometimes i feel like I'm just playing what my fingers wants and making sure I'm sticking to the right tonality...

 

JR? Is that you? Welcome back.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Interesting thread!

 

When you practice, think like a singer. Try singing the lines you are playing, or playing the lines you sing. This will teach you the discipline to let melodies breathe.

 

Excellent advice!

 

 

Veering away tangentially...

 

Lately I've been trying to sometimes 'think like a keyboard player', inasmuch as I can, when playing along with another guitarist who's on "rhythm guitar"... (Probably helps that I don't use a pick... )

 

Hey, I think it speaks volumes that I get a lot of compliments on those parts!

[I-missRichardTee]

Do I ever!!!

This is my own little idea that is growing slowly for me.

I literally play whatever melodic idea that I "hear in my head".

I do not have perfect pitch, just decent imperfect relative pitch.

So I just hit any note on keyboard and whatever melody I hear, I begin playing on that tone.

I am talking unlimited melodic ideas, of already written tunes that are "out there" in the "air".

I still need to work on Pop Goes the Weasel? Traditional melodies, miltary ones, marches, opera, a Hendrix lick, Wagnerian themes, Strauss waltz, Glen Miller,

I have not messed around with Schoenberg tone rows yet, but that music escapes me!

Peg of my Heart, Stardust, Bridge to Cherokee, Hot House, What Are You doing the rest of your life, Tico Tico!! Ciriciribin !! Up a Lazy River come to mind. I put my finger on any key and just start playing what I hear, it is not easy for me, but I make progress.

I intentionally try to fool myself by NOT noting the key or scale degree, strictly by musical instinct.

 

The other aspect of this is also very important.

When you play these half remembered songs, you will sooner or later notice this occurring

"What is that note between this note and that note?" This happened to me on the semi classical Tico Tico.

It intensifies your sensitivity to melody in general.

These old melodies are diamonds waiting to be mined. Writing a decent melody is no easy thing to do, trust me.

So all these melodic ideas are out there waiting for you to investigate.

Books filled with sequenced licks are out there in super abundance, while these melodies are usually superior in there inherent musicality.

Mind you John Coltrane is in the top five of my all time favorite musicians yet his "giant Steps " composition, while interesting is NOT of the melodic quality of a number of well crafted melodies. Giant Steps is a brilliant vehicle to investigate hard to hear key changes and intervals, but the melody itself does not compare to many songs I prefer, if that doesn't sound to confusing!!

 

Edit A colleague/friend of mine suggests improvising on a tune AND slowing the tempo way way down and this extra time and space will open up your hearing creatively.

[MUSIKRICKARD]

Thank you for all the great tips I've gotten already! This forum's truly something special, so many great tips in such a short time, I'll be sticking around here more for sure.

 

I wonder about that ear trainer course you mentioned, how can i take such a course? Is it something over the net? I have absolutely no idea of what it is.

I have lots of rythmical phrases showing up in my mind when I'm

humming for myself, my endeavour has always been to concretize them into my playing.

In music theory classes in school, my teacher (an extraordinary phenomenal but viritually unkown musician by the way) is always nagging me about singing scales and saying the names of the notes involved.

 

Is this eartraining/Solfeggio course you're mentioning of the same nature?

[Joe Muscara]

Yes, it is. Also, identifying intervals (relative pitch), and other things where you connect what you hear (in your head or thru your ears) to musical notes. Even transcribing songs is a form of this.

 

There are a lot of good sites and some good apps for relative pitch training.

[cnegrad]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ear_training

[GovernorSilver]

I have lots of rythmical phrases showing up in my mind when I'm

humming for myself, my endeavour has always been to concretize them into my playing.

 

Try writing down these phrases. I find I create better phrases in my head when I am away from any instrument. Having to put down these phrases on sheet music is good ear training. I've also fooled around with entering them into a sequencer, but I got a slap on the wrist from the old-schoolers when I admitted that in public.

[solpincus]

select a song that you are comfortable with. you know the chord changes by heart. play the changes slowly, IN TIME. you can take a metronome, & let the clicks fall on 2 & 4 of the beat. begin HEARING in your head a riff. try playing it. hear it again, say a 4-bar riff that YOU hear in your head (not something off the cd.) keep playing the same 4 bar section several times until you can play it technically correct. if neccessary, turn off the metrone ( or drum machine) & just get the notes correct. once you do that, play it again in time.

After doing THIS for a short (or long time) play the same tune (in time) & TRADE FOURS with silently a heard riff. i.e. a 12 bar blues in f : play 4bars of f7 changes while HEARING in your head, ( or singling aloud ) a riff that corresponds to f7, then play a 4bar riff in b flat7 for 2, then f7 for 2 that sounds good ( you can get much looser & freer over dominant chords than in major or minor triads.)

try playing just the GUIDE TONES of the song (3rds & 7ths) in time. try imagining a horn player playing on top of these tones. to play MELODIC you have to play simple (which is MUCH harder than playing mechanized 8th notes over chord changes, using riffs you already know.

break the song down into 4 bar or 8 bar sections. play something simple, repeat the 8 or 4 bars, & try subtly changing the riff (or phrase) each time , over & over.

do the same thing, only use the original melody, & subtly alter & embellish it in a different way each time.

Ear training is good, transcribing a horn solo is better. this was easier to do with LPs than it is with cd's. However, if you can get ahold of a vinyl record & a turntable, play the song & a slower speed, & TAPE the song on a cassette at slow speed. take note of the inner-relationship between the note & the chord changes : WHERE does each note fall on the chord ? is it a lower triadic note, is it a passing tone, is it an upper tension (9th, 11th, 13 th ? is the note raised a half step, or flattened ?)

experiment with articulations of a line : staccato, legato, etc.

play more rthymatically instead of just linear. play the chords the way you would picture a brass or sax section playing it.

consider ARRANGING (ORCHESTRATING) s song you know well, with a string section or horn section in mind. consider the same song, only you're arranging a Background for a vocalist (maybe you) when does the section play ? when does it lay out, & not step all over the singer. When you concretize it one paper, & hear it played, you get a CRASH COURSE on what works & what doesn't.

The best source of melodic improvising ? the players who play intrumments that only play one note at a time : saxes, trumpets, trombones. also, singers like billie holiday, frank sinatra, & mel torme, ella fitzgerald, regardless of what genre you play. it's their TIME. it's the subtle things they do with dynamics, trills, etc. the FEEL.

SORRY about the long winded advice. It is NOT the whole story. None of it may apply to what you do, but.....

there a plenty of academic theory teachers who can tell you something similiar. in my experience, the best players just do it, ( but a lot of them had to get a little analytical about it at one time or another) there are players who say a lot with little. that is not easy for some of us. some players hear a LOT of things to play, & thus, need to be accountable for what they play, which means technical mastery of the axe, & knowing when to play & when NOT to play.