yorgatron Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 anybody got'em just laying around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave E Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I have "Shining Star". PM me with an email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I have "Shining Star". PM me with an email address. Dave, you RAWK! "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 You will not make your band sound like EW&F by playing horn parts on a keyboard, sorry! Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 You will not make your band sound like EW&F by playing horn parts on a keyboard, sorry! True. By themselves, keyboard horns often sound like Seventie's cheese whiz. But it amazes me how keyboard horns can help convince the audience that they are hearing a whole section. If keyboard horns are mixed well with real horns, the end result can sound very good. I've been watching the Stevie Wonder Live at Last [blu-ray] (2009) concert DVD I got for Christmas. They have one trumpet and one sax. A keyboard player off to the side of the stage is working his tail off though, and they sound great! I recommend this DVD to anyone here who enjoys Stevie Wonder. KLONK http://www.wegmans.com/prodimg/793/200/021000626793.jpg Dave, you still rawk! "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 But it amazes me how keyboard horns can help convince the audience that they are hearing a whole section. If keyboard horns are mixed well with real horns, the end result can sound very good. Absolutely true. I used to play with a jazz quartet, and would double our sax player using a solo trumpet patch on an old JV-80. It really does fool the ear if there is a real player in there. Or even the Yamaha VL type modelled horn. Problem is, that playing convincing section horns takes all your hands, so you can't play keyboard parts then! Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmonkey Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Seriously, Dave... RAWK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Problem is, that playing convincing section horns takes all your hands, so you can't play keyboard parts then! Agreed. But even more important is that you have to think like a horn player. This is tricky for a lot of keyboardists. And then, after you've got it mastered, the Diva turns and says, "How about my string section? I need to hear more strings there!" AAAAaaaaaarrrrggggghhhhh! Of course, everyone knows... The answer is to hire more keyboardists. On that Stevie Wonder concert they have four (the bass player doubles on keys). After listening to this again Monday night I think they've got the parts nailed. Very convincing... and one helluva great show! (And no, I had not just returned from NAMM with a post-Kronos buzz.) Of course, my friend ProfD reminds me that he don't need no stinkin' DVD. He saw Stevie in concert while visiting Chicago just a couple of years ago. ProfD - OK... that trumps my Blu-ray. (But didja have a bathroom just a few feet away?) "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Interestingly, certain styles of music have made KB horns accceptable. Of course, none of that music actually sounds like EW&F or ToP horn sections either. In fairness, between the better samples in KBs nowadays, there are KB players who can play very convincing horn parts on them. Still, it does come down to thinking like horn player(s). Doubling the real deal makes it even better. Of course, my friend ProfD reminds me that he don't need no stinkin' DVD. He saw Stevie in concert while visiting Chicago just a couple of years ago. ProfD - OK... that trumps my Blu-ray. (But didja have a bathroom just a few feet away?) The port-a-potty wasn't very far away but I wouldn't dare have gone to the bathroom while Stevie and the crew were smoking. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Also, you're going to want to dumb down some of those horn parts kemosabe. There is no sense trying to play a rapidly articulated repeated 4 note horn voicing in double tongued sixteenth notes on keys. Sure it's a fun technical challenge, but even if you can get the notes out fast enough or play all the voiced chords, they probably won't FEEL all that great. Learn signature lines, but simplify when necessary. Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Interestingly, the OP doesn't say whether he'll be doing this on keys, or perhaps will be using real horns. So the usefulness of the advice above depends on that. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Fortunately, Shining Star horn lines are mostly stand alone stabs and the counter line during the chorus. This live version has a somewhat different groove, and there is even a section in the middle where synth doubles the horns: [video:youtube] Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I saw this when it was broadcast. What I was most impressed by Philip Bailey still having that ridiculous vocal range 30 years later. Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasGT3 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I used to be 100% against using keys for horns, but as samples have gotten better, it starts to make sense. Live Horns are preferable, a mix of live horns and synth is really the best compromise. A synth trombone, french horn baritone sax and even trumpet is acceptable to me. The tenor/alto needs some imagination. So, hire a sax player and you're good to go! Kurzweil PC3x, Nord Electro 3, Nord C-1, Casio Privia PX-3, Yamaha DX-7, Korg Polysix, Moog Taurus 3, Yamaha Motif XS (rack),Ventilator, QSC K12, K10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clpete Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Nobody thinks that you can make a key horns sound like EW&F, but not every one can afford to hire a horn section. We do what we have to play music that pays the bills. I would be happy playing only keyboard sounds, but playing in a 5 piece dance band is going to require the keyboard player to pick up horns, strings, bells, steel drums and tonight I was asked if I could get an harmonica sound. I did refuse to play a harmonica sound. They all looked at me very weird and rejected. We play for free. We get paid to set up and tear down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thinking back over my time in cover bands, I may have spent as much time covering other parts as I did playing keyboard parts. I almost never played in a band with two guitarists. When I was not covering strings, horns or harmonica I was covering extra guitar parts. The best sax I had was solo. I mean, ummm, the best solos I had was sax. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave E Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Hmmm... I took yorgatron literally, and sent him parts for real horn players (hence the term: horn parts). I haven't heard from him, so I don't know now if that's what he meant or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucktronix Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I used to cover "Groove Line" in a funk band about 15 years ago and I used to cover the horn parts with a Korg DW8000 and the throbbing bass intro with a Wavestation EX. While I'm not a huge fan of covering horn lines with a keyboard, I've found that layering a sampled horn patch with a synth brass patch works pretty well at achieving a somewhat convincing horn section. There was a patch in my old Yamaha EX7 called "Sfzorsand"(sp??) that had a nice swell when you held down the key, and I used it extensively in a Motown cover band. I would hold down a chord to get a swell with my left hand and play horn lines with my right... makes for a pretty convincing horn section. Kronos 88 Platinum, Yamaha YC88, Subsequent 37, Korg CX3, Hydrasynth 49-key, Nord Electro 5D 73, QSC K8.2, Lester K Me & The Boyz Chris Beard Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Sforzand is still in the Motif line. I use it all the time in Motown stuff. I also have a "bigger" brass sound I made that has 4 parts - saxes, bones, synth brass and the sforz sound. Also one where it's the sforz sound set in octaves so I can play octave parts with one note. Even with all those variations, I'm not going to play any EWF with it. It's fine for Superstition, or Rescue Me, or Would I Lie To You, where the horn part is one small section in the song, but not for covering EWF or TOP where the horns are more of a featured part of the sound. Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I would be happy playing only keyboard sounds, but playing in a 5 piece dance band is going to require the keyboard player to pick up horns, strings, bells, steel drums and tonight I was asked if I could get an harmonica sound. I did refuse to play a harmonica sound. They all looked at me very weird and rejected. See? If we were all flautists / flutists / flute players, we... Wouldn't have to carry around all this shtuff. Wouldn't have to drive trucks, or variations thereof. Wouldn't have to worry about drunk patrons sitting their drinks on our equipment. Our instrument would never become obsolete, making a whole forum of middle-aged men GAS for the next great thing they heard, but didn't play, at Winter NAMM. Would never be pondering the age-old question, "Should I play in stereo or in mono?" Would never be asked to play horns, strings, bells, steel drums, or harmonica parts... all at the same time. Would only be required to play one single note at a time. Think about it. "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 See? If we were all flautists / flutists / flute players, we... Wouldn't have to carry around all this shtuff. Wouldn't have to drive trucks, or variations thereof. Wouldn't have to worry about drunk patrons sitting their drinks on our equipment. Our instrument would never become obsolete, making a whole forum of middle-aged men GAS for the next great thing they heard, but didn't play, at Winter NAMM. Would never be pondering the age-old question, "Should I play in stereo or in mono?" Would never be asked to play horns, strings, bells, steel drums, or harmonica parts... all at the same time. Would only be required to play one single note at a time..... .....Wouldn't have to go out Friday or Saturday night at ALL, because we'd never have work. Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 When I was a kid, my Dad was helping me load my Rhodes and Hammond L100 up, and he says "why the hell didn't you take up the flute!" Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clpete Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Now Ive got gas for one of those flute thingys. Hey, which costs the mosta flute or an harmonica 2 ? Which one should I buy? We play for free. We get paid to set up and tear down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 There was a patch in my old Yamaha EX7 called "Sfzorsand"(sp??) that had a nice swell when you held down the key, and I used it extensively in a Motown cover band. I would hold down a chord to get a swell with my left hand and play horn lines with my right... makes for a pretty convincing horn section. Yeah, the Sforzando Brass patch works well. Moving forward Kronos users will have the advantage though! Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The best sax I had was solo. I mean, ummm, the best solos I had was sax. Brother RABid, I call TMI (too much information). The last thing we need are details on your solo sax. No. Really. "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I saw this when it was broadcast. What I was most impressed by Philip Bailey still having that ridiculous vocal range 30 years later. That and Verdine White never stops moving while laying down the tasty bass lines. David Gig Rig:Depends on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 When I saw them on TV they had another guy playing bass too, Verdine didn't seem to play all the time. Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I saw this when it was broadcast. What I was most impressed by Philip Bailey still having that ridiculous vocal range 30 years later. That and Verdine White never stops moving while laying down the tasty bass lines. Katie Couric called him, "Gumby... on steroids". EWF is one of my favorite bands for a lot of reasons. He is certainly one of 'em! "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymecc Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I too am desperately searching for the hornlines from Shining star. Can any brass players lend a hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymecc Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm also looking for Give up the Funk and Rollercoaster of Love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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