Powered Speakers: Did I misunderstand how they work?

[Nu2Keys]

CARVIN LM12A

 

Awesome sound, built in mixer & line out XLR can go to the FOH.

Nothing else needed.

 

That actually looks great and the price is about 1/2 of an equivalent EV powered speaker that has fewer features. I've never owned any Carvin equipment. How is the quality?

[Mr. Nightime]

Doesn't that kinda negate the idea and/or advantage of a self contained powered speaker. If you have to carry another piece of gear to make a 'powered' speaker work properly anyway, why not just carry a head and speaker cabinet, or better yet, a keyboard combo amp?

 

I simply don't understand this "anti-mixer" sentiment.

 

It's not like you have to carry a large format mixing board. A simple small line mixer or even a two channel pocket mixer will do just fine (assuming two keyboards are the max).

 

Why carry a "gain pedal" instead of a mixer? You're saving nothing. Some keyboards have gain output settings, some do not. Using a small mixer makes this a non-issue.

 

Why carry a "head and speaker" or a combo amp? Because they sound inferior, weigh more and they sound inferior (in case anyone missed that the first time).

 

Even a $29 two channel mixer from that "B" company everyone hates will be do the job and it will fit in your pocket!

 

Since I have the piano using one channel, 2 modules currently using one channel a piece, and the Hammond through the Motion sound that uses 2 channels, A mixer is a must. My Mackie 1202VLZ is small enough where I can put it in its case, and put the case in my cord bag. Takes up virtually no room anywhere, and gives me all the capability I need.

[DanL]

CARVIN LM12A

 

Awesome sound, built in mixer & line out XLR can go to the FOH.

Nothing else needed.

 

That actually looks great and the price is about 1/2 of an equivalent EV powered speaker that has fewer features. I've never owned any Carvin equipment. How is the quality?

 

I haven't used that particular speaker, but my stereo rig used 2 passive LM15 wedges by Carvin. They sounded great and I never had any problems with them. My brother has a Carvin powered mixer that has had a couple issues but it's always been fixed by Carvin quickly and with no questions asked. He's also got 2 of the 18 powered subs that sound great, I'm strongly considering getting one to use for my band as well.

 

As far as mixers go, I have a "B" word 16 channel line mixer in my rack. 1 space, and everything that can stay plugged in stays plugged in and wrapped up at the end of the night and stored in the rack. I have a 2nd mixer, a small 4 channel, that I keep in my van as a spare, since everyone says the B stuff isn't reliable.

[mate stubb]

Some people are too lazy to set up a stand-alone mixer. It does take an extra 5 minutes and extra cables, plus you have to find a place to set it.

 

I always carry a rack, so a rack mixer that remains pre-wired works great for me.

[Ken Beaumont]

I use the LM15A powered mains, a passive 18 inch sub & power amp as the output for my PA. I have gigged with them for almost 4 years, never given me a problem. And they really do sound good! I have quite a bit of Carvin gear. I think they are very underrated due to being factory direct. I have only had 1 piece of their gear ever give me issues. A "nomad" tube amp that shipped with a bad (cracked) tube. Carvin made that right, they shipped me a new amp and sent me the shipping documents. They could have just sent the tube and I would have been happy! I have a guitar they made for me with my choice of woods, finish, neck radius and electronics , it is my favorite guitar hands down.

[CEB]

I am close to pulling the trigger on new amplification. I will probably do it after New Years.

 

What is bugging me is the powered speakers I am interested in do not have the low end frequency response specs my big old rig has. I am curious how low we need to go to to make a stage piano sound really good. Example is the Carvin in the link above only goes to 57 Hz to 18 kHz. A cabinet I am interested is has a range of 65 Hz to 20 kHz. I do not have a handle on what freq ranges we actually use. Any advice?

 

Hopefully in 10 - 14 days I will have local floor models to test out. Right now I am just guess based on readings and youTube clips.

 

Thanks.

[JeffLearman]

Doesn't that kinda negate the idea and/or advantage of a self contained powered speaker. If you have to carry another piece of gear to make a 'powered' speaker work properly anyway, why not just carry a head and speaker cabinet, or better yet, a keyboard combo amp?

 

I simply don't understand this "anti-mixer" sentiment.

They're great when appropriate. But for one keyboard, they don't add much other than more things to plug together. If for some reason the headphone output doesn't cut the mustard, though, a mixer fits the bill perfectly.

 

I am curious how low we need to go to to make a stage piano sound really good. Example is the Carvin in the link above only goes to 57 Hz to 18 kHz. A cabinet I am interested is has a range of 65 Hz to 20 kHz. I do not have a handle on what freq ranges we actually use. Any advice?

IMHO a lot of keyboard players have more low end than they should. A real piano doesn't have all that much bottom. However, if you're kicking bass on Hammond it's another story, or if you want to nail that minimoog part at the end of Lucky Man.

 

Are those figures +/- 3dB? Be aware that different companies use different standards for the frequency range, in which case you can't compare. Also, some drop off dramatically when they drop off, others not so much. On those others, you can boost the bass a bit (if you're not already maxxing them out volume-wise). It's not as good as flat bottom, but often way good enough.

 

And let me repeat: a lot of keyboard players use more bass than they should. In my soul band I particularly enjoy the songs where the bass player and I are doubling the part. I don't need lots of bass: he's carrying that. My left hand on piano adds tone and crispness -- yes, it's deep and solid, but it's not driving the bass for the band.

 

Bottom line: you have to listen to know, or else buy and hope. There are too many factors to know for sure from specs, unless they're way out of the ballpark.

 

Do not expect to find 20-20K +/- 3dB. That's for studio monitors and home stereo speakers. It's one of the things we sacrifice to get efficiency for live gear (or else we break the bank paying for it and break our backs carrying it).

[Ken Beaumont]

If you are over 25, there is a good chance you can't hear past 16khz. Too much bass makes a piano sound muddy, guitars sound like crap if the amp isn't rolling off the bass after 125hz

 

"The human ear can nominally hear sounds in the range 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz (20 kHz). This upper limit tends to decrease with age, most adults being unable to hear above 16 kHz. The ear itself does not respond to frequencies below 20 Hz, but these can be perceived via the body's sense of touch."--- Wikipedia

[Griffinator]

I don't need lots of bass: he's carrying that.

 

Jeff knocks it out of the park again. If you're in a band with a bass player, you do not need to be in his range. OK, so the speaker sounds crappy to you when you play by yourself because there isn't enough bass. Sorry, but you're in a band, and part of being in a band is that you are settled into a frequency range that complements everyone else.

 

Here's a thought that should get you all scurrying: Guitarists have the same problem.

[CEB]

Generally I have never had that problem because there was no need for bass players in the band unless the bassist is very good vocalist.

[Griffinator]

Obviously this hinges on what sort of band you play in, CEB. Pretty short list of musical styles that function without a bassist.

[Nu2Keys]

CARVIN LM12A

 

Awesome sound, built in mixer & line out XLR can go to the FOH.

Nothing else needed.

 

UPDATE: I checked my Carvin catalog last night and the description of the powered speaker said something to the effect of "accepts any mixer input." In other words, the way I read it you still need a mixer for the Carvin powered speaker to work properly. Not that I'm anti-mixer, but just for clarification.

 

Like I said, I'm not anti-mixer, but it IS one more piece of equipment to hook up and possibly have trouble with.

[CEB]

Not really I can pretty much cover anything. There have been a few exceptions pieces so that is why I usually would bring my old Precission bass. The bass solo in Alright Now was one where I had to play it on the Fender.

 

The biggest drawback in not having a bassist is that it limits what I do on keys more than limits the bass line possibilities. Things like piano double hammer licks and wide chord voicings and such become impossible when I have to keep holding the bass groove. Right now both bands I play in have bassist and I like it.

[DanL]

CARVIN LM12A

 

Awesome sound, built in mixer & line out XLR can go to the FOH.

Nothing else needed.

 

UPDATE: I checked my Carvin catalog last night and the description of the powered speaker said something to the effect of "accepts any mixer input." In other words, the way I read it you still need a mixer for the Carvin powered speaker to work properly. Not that I'm anti-mixer, but just for clarification.

 

Like I said, I'm not anti-mixer, but it IS one more piece of equipment to hook up and possibly have trouble with.

 

No, it doesn't mean you NEED a mixer, only that it accepts the input signal from one. If you only have 1 or 2 boards, that speaker will be fine by itself, but a mixer will give you more flexibility. A little mixer is inexpensive, easy to use, and hardly ever have problems. Something like this- it will let you balance the levels between your boards and make sure you have a good enough signal going into the speaker: http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--RLLMX28

[Meisenhower]

Like I said, I'm not anti-mixer, but it IS one more piece of equipment to hook up and possibly have trouble with.

 

Generally speaking, a mixer is most often the last thing in the sound reinforcement chain to fail. Aside from the odd noisy fader or pot that needed a cleaning, I've never had a mixer go down in 35 years of gigging (unless it has been dropped of the back of a truck, or otherwise abused).

 

I can't say the same thing about amplifiers, speakers or any electronic instrument.

[Theo Verelst]

Mixers make certain types of signal impurities, and also take part in the ground coupling and decoupling issue, and may have of course goodies like eq and effects, so I suppose it depends on what you're after.

 

Maybe it's not bad either to have a good "master volume" arrangement: a mixer to limit the maximum output level, or the input of the (potentially heavy power) speaker system adjusted such that the maximum signal level from all that's connected will still not be damaging to the ears when a digital square wave of full amplitude and most nasty frequency is generated...