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Thinking about going Kurz


Nillerbabs

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Hi again, ya'll!

 

 

Like many others I have been tempted by the dramatic price drop on the PC3 series. I currently use a Nord Electro 3 and a NL2x, which I'd trade off to finance the Kurz. I'd hardly need other sounds than I could get with this combo, not counting user samples. These things can be said about this swap:

 

Bonuses:

- Better keybed. Recently I've been so-so with the unpianistic action on the Electro, since I use it for EP 70 % of the time, and there's no way I'd get realistic piano playing out of the Electro.

- Multitimbrality - EP's and hammond simultaneously.

- This solution will give me some extra money.

 

Drawbacks:

- I'll be downgrading on the hammond side of things.

- Transportation won't be as easy, since the same weight now goes into a single board, and strapping a board on the bag is out of the question.

- Synth manipulation and sound sculpting become less intuitive.

 

Anything else I ought to take into account, and what are your thoughts? For piano/EP it's a toss between the two, but I know I'm selling myself short with the KB3. How severely? What will the new OS do in this regard? I know that a Ventilator would make the day/night difference in this regard, but getting one of those eliminates the economical advantage. Any comments much appreciated!

 

 

/ Niels

When in doubt, superimpose pentatonics.
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I wouldn't do it. I'd rather take the NE3+NL2x combo with me than the PC3x. Besides, if you don't need the other sounds the Kurzweil offers, you'll only be downgrading (imo). You'll be stuck with the triple strike piano, love it or hate it. Nord will probably release some newer/better samples in the future that are probably better than the Kurz's pianos. The EP's are very nice in the Kurzweil, but I found the NE3's to be more realistic and dynamic. Don't get me started on the KB3 mode, it doesn't even come close to the C1 engine..

 

You can get some nice and more complex pads from the Kurz than you would get from the NL2x, but then I'd rather get a blofeld module as a nice extra if you need those..

 

So I'd just stick with what you have. As for the weighted keys, maybe Nord is coming out with a new stage with all the extra features the NE3 has...

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I'd get a cheap weighted controller like the Casio everyone always talks about or something like that, and midi to the Electro to play the pianos off the weighted keys. Then you have a "lower manual" for the organ too. That's what I do with my S90ES.

Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1

Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6

www.bksband.com

www.echoesrocks.com

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Of course I'm biased....

 

But here are a few things to consider:

 

Variety in EPs and Clavs - the PC3 sound set includes over 50 EPs and 32 clavs.

One cool thing - the detailed programming capabilities allowed us to emulate different models of Rhodes and Wurlies. Example: we have the older Wurly sound used on Ray Charles' What'd I Say (he played a version of this on on a K26 and was delighted) and plenty of versions of the Model 200, which was more common.

 

It has Pianet sounds (which are not common in digital keyboards) replicating everything from Steely Dan's Black Friday, to Zep's Misty Mountain Hop and No Quarter to Three Dog Night's Joy to the World.

 

Our US distributor carries Nord and I'm very familiar with them.

They're great for plug and play and their organs are outstanding.

(I still have a Nord Lead 3 and love it.)

But you probably won't be able to transform one of their Rhodes programs into an exact sound from an album, like Billy Preston's sound on Get Back, or the wah clav from Tell Me Something Good.

That's where our stuff shines.

(Of course you might not require this capability.)

 

The PC3 also has CP80 and RMI Electra Piano samples and programs along with Mellotron strings, flutes and choirs.

 

Programming on the PC3 will be more involved.

Knowing that many players don't want to have to dive into menus we tried to provide a sound set- currently over 1000 programs - that covers everything a gigging player would need.

With quick access banks you can take your favorites and group them into banks of 10 where you have access with a single button press.

 

While we don't have hard-labelled sliders and buttons, the PC3 has an INFO soft button - hit it and the display will tell you what the sliders/wheels/pedals control.

 

The new OS does include some improvements to both Leslies and tone wheel emulations.

 

The other big difference I can think of is the complexity of our effects.

Most of our effects have tons of parameters which allow very detailed tweaking.

Even if you're not going to program them, the deep effects architecture allowed us to dial in very specific characteristics which really added life to the presets.

 

For KB3 you'll have to check it out for yourself.

I would not assume anything.

On our end, we receive feedback similar to what we hear regarding the pianos.

Some think the Leslie is too "pitchy" - others say it's not "pitchy" enough.

Some say our organs are too bright, others say they're too dull.

Every time we "fix" something, some customers are happy while others complain. The best solution we have for all these mixed messages is to provide enough different presets and variations of Leslie effects so that a majority of people can find something they like. I think there's something like 80 or so KB3 presets, with a pretty wide variety.

 

Just remembered - we also used KB3 (with saw instead of sine waves) to emulate Vox and Farfisa combo organs that work very nicely for stuff like Elvis Costello or The Animals.

 

Guys like Jon Carin, Bernie Worrell and Rod Argent all rave about the KB3 sounds. Yet we often see negative feedback on them from a certain percentage of customers.

 

So we view it as a work in progress, and will continue to make improvements whenever possible.

 

Note - We have recently acquired a Ventilator and are examining it closely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I've had 3 Kurzweil 'boards over the years, & while some of the sounds / voices (whatever you want to call them)

 

are superb, what would worry me is that Kurzwiels 'service' network is practically non-existent in Europe.

 

Looks to me as though you've got a nice set-up as it is, so why change?

John.

 

some stuff on myspace

 

Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7

Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.

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I have a PC3, and added an Electro 3 a few months ago for my second board. For a couple of months, if I was doing a single-board gig, I just carried the Electro (love that under 20 pound weight). For the past several gigs, I've just carried the PC3, and put up with the extra weight.

 

I am part of the beta test group on the new 2.0 OS - there are a few new acoustic pianos and electric pianos in the 2.0 mix - and I'm loving them in the band - they sound good, cut through nicely.

 

On the Hammond side, I serviced organs for aver 30 years, worked on at least a thousand tonewheel Hammonds. The Leslie is somewhat improved in OS 2, it no longer sounds "pitchy" in fast to me. The sound of the two is considerably different, the Nord is more brash, "in-your-face," but there are some edits that can be done to the factory presets that get the PC3 in the face too. BOTH instruments do sound like different Hammonds that I have worked on - because there is a LOT of variation in 50+ year old Hammonds (and even in differences when new with early vs late models).

 

Things I like most about the Nord: Weight, size, knobs for a group of effects that are easy to tweak on the fly. Things I like least: The effects are easy to tweak, but the tweakability is not very much - some parameters that I'd like to change, I can't. The registrations with the drawbars don't really seem to have the same effects as on a real B3. Not really enough different sounds for my taste, I'd still need another board with it, and MIDI implementation (no mod wheel, etc - can't even properly control an external module). Monotimbral.

 

Things I like most about the Kurz: Almost a thousand factory patches, with a huge amount of adjustability and customization (once one begins to master VAST, which is by no means an easy task). It will do it all. Enough sliders and buttons to control almost anything I hook to it. Many very good sounds, especially realistic orchestrals. Ability do download patches from a large user base, instead of only the factory. Things I like least: bigger and weighs more. To really get the Hammond sound I want, I need to either add a vent, or get an XK3c. I have to learn enough about the operation to figure out how to set up a slider to change any parameter on the fly that I might want to change (unless that was programmed into a factory patch, which does happen frequently).

 

I liked the PC3X enough to buy a PC3 11 months later. If I HAD to get rid of some instruments, the Electro would go first, then the PC3 (and keep the 3X). YMMV.

 

Things still on my GAS list for the future: a pure synth, think like Voyager. A REAL acoustic grand piano (and that one may happen soon).

 

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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Thanks for your advice, guys. Particularly you, Dave - I was hoping you'd chime in here, and it couldn't have been better :-)

 

I don't really do cover music, so I don't need that vast array (:whistle:) of rhodes', clavs and wurlies. In fact I'm a big fan of the Nord approach, offering different rhodes models - although that's not to say that I don't appreciete the Kurz rhodes'. Maybe that's some food for thought right there, regarding basic instrument philosophies.

 

Dan - bringing the Casio is tempting, but it kinda defeats the purpose of multitimbrality, at least for electric piano and hammond, plus I'm already one synth short for one of my bands at the moment - I deffy could do with another part. Lugging an 88 too - whew, that's just a tad too overwhelming.

 

And Tom... If they were to release a new Nord Stage with improved synth and sample playing capabilities, that would replace my two Nords. Specific sounds can be sampled, and a monosynth on top of that would give me a good gig. I just need to win the lottery :)

When in doubt, superimpose pentatonics.
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I've had 3 Kurzweil 'boards over the years, & while some of the sounds / voices (whatever you want to call them)

 

are superb, what would worry me is that Kurzwiels 'service' network is practically non-existent in Europe.

 

 

This really used to be the case, but there should not be service issues in Europe these days.

(6 years ago it was a real nightmare!)

If you or anyone you know is having any problems with service, please contact me and I'll get it sorted asap.

 

Our UK distributor, Sound Tech is particularly good with service.

 

davew@ycrdi.com

 

 

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I've had 3 Kurzweil 'boards over the years, & while some of the sounds / voices (whatever you want to call them)

 

are superb, what would worry me is that Kurzwiels 'service' network is practically non-existent in Europe.

 

 

This really used to be the case, but there should not be service issues in Europe these days.

(6 years ago it was a real nightmare!)

If you or anyone you know is having any problems with service, please contact me and I'll get it sorted asap.

 

Our UK distributor, Sound Tech is particularly good with service.

 

davew@ycrdi.com

 

 

Thanks for the quick & helpful reply Dave - I'm sure it will be of interest to many folks.

 

As you can see from my sig, I'm not using a Kurzweil in my current rig.

 

The other issue I'd like to ask is - why do NO stores in the UK stock Kurzweil 'boards to 'test out'?

 

If there are any, I haven't been able to find them...

 

& I live in a city with a population of nearly 3 million (ie: quite large catchment area!)

 

 

John.

 

some stuff on myspace

 

Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7

Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.

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I don't really do cover music, so I don't need that vast array (:whistle:) of rhodes', clavs and wurlies. In fact I'm a big fan of the Nord approach, offering different rhodes models - although that's not to say that I don't appreciete the Kurz rhodes'. Maybe that's some food for thought right there, regarding basic instrument philosophies.

 

I'd say don't do it. The PC3x really requires tweaking to get the full benefits that everyone raves about. And it's not easy to tweak. Unless I'm mistaken, I know you as a player and not so much as a tweaker.

 

The PC3x is heavy. Packed in my flight case? Forget it- I'd rather bring a Rhodes Mark 1.

 

It does have great sounds. But like you said, you don't need all those sounds. And speaking from personal taste, none of the PC3x Rhodeseses do it for me like those of the E3.

 

The Nord philosophy is so good. I scratch my head in puzzlement every time I end up using my PC3x, trying to figure out how to add an effect, or turn one off. The PC3x is super tweakable, but it is not intuitive at all.

 

That VAST thing, as cool as it sounds on paper, is a real turnoff for me. I already put in my time learning regular-old subtractive synthesis, even though I should be practicing piano, and now here's another complicated thing to learn?

 

I really admire Kurzweil, and I think it's an amazing instrument for some people. For me, it was an expensive mistake-- and the recent price drop makes it almost too wasteful for me to sell the thing, so it stands in my studio closet :( Actually I used it the other day as a controller for the E3's piano ;)

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Other than a MicroPiano and then an ME-1, I've never owned a Kurzweil keyboard.

 

Lately I've been looking around at alternatives to my aging P90, and am in need of some good basic pianos as well as more complex sounds for more band work that's on the horizon.

 

After quite a bit of research I bit the bullet last week and ordered an SP4-7. Teaming it up with my Electro/Ventilator, the SP4-7 has the right blend of size, weight, goodies and certainly the right price to be a great gig "bottom board."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

____________________________________
Rod

victoria bc

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The other issue I'd like to ask is - why do NO stores in the UK stock Kurzweil 'boards to 'test out'?

 

If there are any, I haven't been able to find them...

 

& I live in a city with a population of nearly 3 million (ie: quite large catchment area!)

 

 

I'll check with the distributor and will post here again on Monday.

 

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Here's another trade-off, which I'm considering:

 

I have a Nord Electro 2 rack and a GEM RP-X module which I control via an old Studiologic SL760. They're both great sounding but because of the lack of function on the SL760, quite fiddly to use. I find myself frantically pressing buttons inbetween songs in the set.

 

So I like the idea of the simplicity of the SP4-7, but would it be a major trade down from the Nord Electro 2 to the SP4-7's KB3 organs?

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I would keep the Nords. You got all the sounds in your Electro and some nice synths in the 2X, why let them go? Kurz is a totally different animal: i wouldn't say better or worse, it's just different. Better pianos, nice strings and synths but too much time to invest on programing and quite heavy to carry around to gigs. A nice instrument for the studio though... And if you got roadies.
Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands
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Anything else I ought to take into account, and what are your thoughts?/ Niels

 

Niels, I was a Kurzweil and nord rep for many years, and have played Kurzweil since 1995 pretty exclusively. As someone who has used both, the PC3X will slay the nord in the MIDI control department - they're not even in the same universe when it comes to being a performance controller.

 

For organ, I have to say that my C1 was one of the best choices I ever made - it made me 'feel' like I was an organ player (19+ years of classical piano training will do anything BUT that). At 35-ish lbs., it was easily giggable, and über-portable -- even in a flight case on our truck. Looking forward to a C2 in 2011, depending on what kinds of gigs the band gets. Currently, I just slap a PC361 on top of my X, and it works out nicely.

 

Personally, I would consider selling your NE3 and leaving the NL2X on top for an 'organ' feel, using its virtually unusable MIDI out port to control KB3 (while also having a lower manual). I haven't played the Ventilator through my PC3X / PC361, but from what I've heard, it makes an enormous difference.

 

The good news is, you're searching for a better way to do what you do, and that makes the world go 'round...

 

Happy weekend!

ivorycj

 

Main stuff: Yamaha CP88 | Korg Kronos 2 73 | Kurzweil Forte 7 | 1898 Steinway I

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Just some unsorted thoughts...what you got is great and if you are used to a boards sound you will get very disappointed if you try to recreate that in a new one!!! You will also always loose money changing boards.

 

-I would emphasize the transportation thing. Damn I hate carry stuff and I did sell my old electro 2, I really wan't an electro 3 for that reason.

 

-I've tried the PC3x a couple of times and it feels and sounds kurzweil, I didn't side to side compare it but I got the feel of playing my K2600r from my nord stage, apart from the clavinets the nord beats the PC3 in every other electro acoustic department.

 

-I much prefer my nord stage for live work.The outlay of the controllers on the nords are unbeatable, if you hit a knob you know that it will do the same thing every time......this is off course programmable on a workstation like the PC3, but thats extra work I rather spend playing.

 

-If i were you I would also consider a used nord stage or a new one, perhaps a new model is in the loop one never knows. I guess Clavia must include "sample memory not just for pianos" in the next stage.

 

-Tried the new casios, the action is impressive I must say it's a good way of getting a good action, I really hate running midicables all over the place and gone are the 80's.....perhaps adding a Casio using the internal piano sound for those pianistic gigs.

 

I would add to that rig of you'rse not sell.

 

/Fred

 

Hi again, ya'll!

 

 

Like many others I have been tempted by the dramatic price drop on the PC3 series. I currently use a Nord Electro 3 and a NL2x, which I'd trade off to finance the Kurz. I'd hardly need other sounds than I could get with this combo, not counting user samples. These things can be said about this swap:

 

Bonuses:

- Better keybed. Recently I've been so-so with the unpianistic action on the Electro, since I use it for EP 70 % of the time, and there's no way I'd get realistic piano playing out of the Electro.

- Multitimbrality - EP's and hammond simultaneously.

- This solution will give me some extra money.

 

Drawbacks:

- I'll be downgrading on the hammond side of things.

- Transportation won't be as easy, since the same weight now goes into a single board, and strapping a board on the bag is out of the question.

- Synth manipulation and sound sculpting become less intuitive.

 

Anything else I ought to take into account, and what are your thoughts? For piano/EP it's a toss between the two, but I know I'm selling myself short with the KB3. How severely? What will the new OS do in this regard? I know that a Ventilator would make the day/night difference in this regard, but getting one of those eliminates the economical advantage. Any comments much appreciated!

 

 

/ Niels

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Thanks for the impressive amount of answers!

 

My only experience with the Kurz has been through playing, so it's great to get some opinions on the interface, navigation, manipulation etc.

 

From the looks of it, I'll just keep what I have on my hands :k) I hate menu diving, and if that's really necessary to derive the goodies from the Kurz, I'd rather skip.

When in doubt, superimpose pentatonics.
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Hi again, ya'll!

 

Anything else I ought to take into account, and what are your thoughts? For piano/EP it's a toss between the two, but I know I'm selling myself short with the KB3. How severely? What will the new OS do in this regard? I know that a Ventilator would make the day/night difference in this regard, but getting one of those eliminates the economical advantage. Any comments much appreciated!

 

 

/ Niels

 

 

Niels, the organ downgrade from your Electro is substantial. KB3 sounds good in isolation or buried in a mix, but every time I try to recreate one of my E3 organ patches on my PC3x, there's no comparison.

 

The Electro 3 organs just breathe and swish around a lot more, if that makes sense. Each note sounds like it's being produced separately, with all the little minor variations and imperfections. KB3 just sounds too consistent, every note doing the exact same manipulations. Doing an a/b comparison between the boards is like night and day.

 

Ventilator is supposed to go a long way towards fixing that, but like you said that's extra money and extra setup hassle.

 

I just don't think a Kurz will give you more of what you happen to need from your 'boards. I love my PC3x and it replaced a bunch of other workstation/rompler stuff in my rig. And it's in a class by itself for controlling complex MIDI setups.

 

But you don't really need any of that, do you? Better to stick with what you already have. Or another thought would be to get a stage piano with good weighted action, and swap your NL2x for a NL2 rack unit. You get a good piano action, upper/lower manuals for your Electro organs, you can load in whatever samples you need into the E3 and still have your VA capability.

 

Or even simpler, get the stage piano and a third tier adn keep the NL2x.

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bringing the Casio is tempting, but it kinda defeats the purpose of multitimbrality, at least for electric piano and hammond

Adding a lightweight 88 is a nice idea. It would solve your poor piano keybed problem, and really, it does add some multimbrality. True, it would not let you drive the Nord's EP and Hammond at the same time, but you could "fall back" on the Casio's EP when using the Nord's Hammond, so you'd still have access to being able to do EP and Hammond at the same time, even if it means you don't use your best EP sound in those circumstances. The PX-3 would be the best Casio there, in terms of having the best EP sound (out of current models, anyway), being lightest weight, and being able to function as a good MIDI controller so that you could call up single-button presets that you could easily set up to drive the Electro from the Casio, or to put the Casio on the desired EP sound while simultaneously switching the Electro to its desired organ sound.

 

Another possibility would be the forthcoming 88-key version of the Kurzweil SP4 (or even the current SP4-7, if you find its keyboard a sufficient improvement over the Electro's for piano), which would give you the same benefits as the PX-3, but with better sounds and even more MIDI controller flexibility. (It's also not entirely inconceivable that you might ultimately find that it could actually end up replacing your E3.)

 

The SP4 would give you much in the way of the sounds and multitimbral capability that entices you about the PC3, but without the complication that turns you off.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Here's another trade-off, which I'm considering:

 

I have a Nord Electro 2 rack and a GEM RP-X module which I control via an old Studiologic SL760. They're both great sounding but because of the lack of function on the SL760, quite fiddly to use. I find myself frantically pressing buttons inbetween songs in the set.

 

So I like the idea of the simplicity of the SP4-7, but would it be a major trade down from the Nord Electro 2 to the SP4-7's KB3 organs?

It's an interesting question, since both the KB3 and the E2 both fall into the category of "good, but not state-of-the-art" in their Hammond emulation. My suspicion is that, at least if you added a Ventilator, the SP4 would be a perfectly viable replacement (thinking that KB3 with Ventilator would likely at least sound better than E2 with its own Leslie simulator).

 

Also, since the SP4-7 also functions as a MIDI controller, you could also use the SP4 alone for some gigs, and if you still liked the E2 rack (or RP-X) better for some things, bring that auxiliary gear as well if you thought the gig warranted it.

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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After quite a bit of research I bit the bullet last week and ordered an SP4-7. Teaming it up with my Electro/Ventilator, the SP4-7 has the right blend of size, weight, goodies and certainly the right price to be a great gig "bottom board."

This combination (also enjoyed by MoodyBluesKeys) sounds pretty good, but I think I would optimize it a little differently. Instead of putting an Electro 3 on top of the SP4, I think I'd look at the Nord Wave.

 

The E3 gives you strong Hammond, strong pianos (acoustic, electric, clav), and strong sampled sounds (including the ability to load your own).

 

If you used a Wave instead, you wouldn't necessarily be any weaker in the piano section (since the Kurz is strong there as well), especially when you consider that the E3 is monotimbral (making its other sounds unavailable when you use its pianos).

 

In the sampled section, you'd be adding much more sample memory, the ability to process the sampled sounds extensively through the synth section (and also take advantage of pitch and mod controllers the E3 lacks), and since the Wave is bitimbral instead of monotimbral like the E3, you could load two of its sounds at once, driving one from its own keyboard and either layering a second or driving a second from any zoned portion of the SP4. The Wave also adds a complete knobby VA synth section and gives you a keyboard with aftertouch.

 

There are only 2 places this approach gets weaker. One, it has a 4 octave keyboard instead of 5 (partially offset by the ability to drive it from the SP4). Two, you are downgrading from the E3 organ to the KB3 organ (not sure to what extent, I'm eager to hear the new KB3 enhancements). That last could be mitigated a few ways: 1. use of a Ventilator on the KB3 sounds, 2. the possibility of loading a few of your favorite organ sounds into the Wave as samples, or 3. add a Hammond XM2 or similar. (Or of course you could go three-tier and keep the E3 as well, treating it primarily as a dedicated organ.)

 

I just love spending other people's money. :-)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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by Frogmonkey:

 

That VAST thing, as cool as it sounds on paper, is a real turnoff for me. I already put in my time learning regular-old subtractive synthesis, even though I should be practicing piano, and now here's another complicated thing to learn?

 

I can fully understand the way you feel. Every manufacturer has their own User Interface, and every time you buy into a new instrument family, you have to learn how to operate it.

 

I have no idea how many hours I spent learning how to use my Motif ES8 in order to use it for what I do musically. So along comes the Motif XF and of course the capabilities dwarf my ES8. Being that I have almost 200 sequences, I am not about to spend the countless hours it will take to convert all my sequences to play on the XF. Even if I had the money (which I don't) at my age I'd rather just play music. Gone are the days of my being willing to put the time into learning yet another user interface in order to do the same thing I'm doing now on my existing workstation.

 

I have questioned just how usable VAST is in the PC3 series with such a small screen in the past. Apparently there are other players that feel the same way I do about difficult to use keyboards.

 

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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I have questioned just how usable VAST is in the PC3 series with such a small screen in the past. Apparently there are other players that feel the same way I do about difficult to use keyboards.

 

+1000

 

There are many Kurzweil users who will snap at you for saying that, but I agree 100%.

 

Of course... many Kurzweil owners have never used anything else and are used to that small screen and the "joy" VAST brings.

 

:laugh:

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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I have questioned just how usable VAST is in the PC3 series with such a small screen in the past.

That's why they invented this...

http://www.soundtower.com/pc3/

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Great, a software editor. I believe a workstation should be fully functional within itself. I have managed to use the small screen on the ES8 to get around and do everything I need to do without a software editor. I understand that its pointless to make a workstation with a real large color screen, a personal computer or laptop can be purchased cheaply these days. Great for home use if you want to use it there.

 

My question is, how efficient is a software editor for a live gig? Do you use it with a laptop to make "changes of the fly" on a gig? I think not.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Great, a software editor....Great for home use if you want to use it there.

 

My question is, how efficient is a software editor for a live gig? Do you use it with a laptop to make "changes of the fly" on a gig? I think not.

 

I have never wanted to edit or create patches at a gig. For someone who works that way, I agree, a different unit with easier on-board editing would be the way to go. But I think that's a minority, and that would not by itself be enough of a reason for most users to rule out a PC3 model. At home, I think a computer based approach is usually actually better, personally.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The Kurz and Nord are 2 different animals. They both have great sounds. Kurz are for people who like to get really into the nitty gritty and sound creation, and Nords are for people who may not necessarily want or need all those extra goodies but want good meat and potatoes sounds and a great b3 model, all ready to be played instantly. In that price bracket its hard to find sounds that don't sound like what they're supposed to. Are they the real thing? Obv not. Are they close enough? Sure. Yes Nord will continue to update their library but Kurz users are programming their own sounds too and putting them online. Obv no one is going to do Kurz style editing AT a gig, thats ridiculous, so the diving into the menu at a gig issue isn't one. If you had a Kurz you'd make the time at home to learn it and program it to your needs and save your user presets in the user banks and have them easily accessible at a gig. Your sounds have a lot more customization with the Kurz and once properly programmed are just as easily manipulated as on a Nord, ie: assigning functions to different sliders. It's all really a matter of taste and how much effort you want to put in. And it's a never ending and always changing, and expensive, game with finding the right board and right sound. Theres always new shit that will give you GAS and someone who tells you its not the right board for you. It seems no one can have their cake and eat it too.

 

 

Now if I had to choose my rig, with my current knowledge, Id have a Pc3X and an electro 3 61. Best of both worlds. And Id throw in a ventilator on the 3 for good measure. And if for some reason I really wanted to upgrade my pianos, I could always get Ivory II and run that through the Kurz.

1974 Rhodes, CP70B, Polivoks, Dominion 1, Behringer D, Mother 32, DFAM, MS20 Mini, Folktek Mescaline, Nord Lead 2x, KArp Odyssey, Jv1080, Digitakt, Hydrasynth,
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Sounds familiar: My studio - PC3X and Electro 3 73. Gigging - PC3 and same Electro 3 73. No ventilator yet. The two new pianos in version 2 OS are great in the band. Upgraded pianos - I have EWQL Pianos Gold - just put in the newest instrument and Play updates - now the Bosendorfer sounds great (already bought that before Ivory II came out). Don't run it through the Kurz - there are no audio inputs - run it out of the computer into the mixer.

 

I can set up any patch on the Kurzweil so that any of the desired parameters can be put on a slider or button - so it does become as easy on a gig as the Nord, but without the limitations. However, doing this does require that I figure out just HOW the effect is created on the Kurz before I know what to modify. BTW, the latest Beta OS (came out yesterday morning) now has a new display function that lets me see what setting I'm moving any controller while it is moving - right on the main Program display.

 

And, if all that isn't good enough piano sound - hopefully, in the next week or two there will be a 5' 7" Baldwin Howard grand in the living room (before anyone asks - no - it ain't gonna be taken out on gigs).

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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And, if all that isn't good enough piano sound - hopefully, in the next week or two there will be a 5' 7" Baldwin Howard grand in the living room (before anyone asks - no - it ain't gonna be taken out on gigs).
Welcome to the club! Hopefully congratulations will be in order. I would love to hear more about it.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Now if I had to choose my rig, with my current knowledge, Id have a Pc3X and an electro 3 61. Best of both worlds. And Id throw in a ventilator on the 3 for good measure. And if for some reason I really wanted to upgrade my pianos, I could always get Ivory II and run that through the Kurz.

As I mentioned above, I'd be inclined to go with the Nord Wave instead of the Electro 3. But you bring up another interesting wrinkle for addressing the organ side of things, if you're going to bring a computer into it (i.e.l for Ivory II), you could also add the organ via VB3. In fact, without a computer, that's supposed to run fine on a V-Machine. I think that would actually probably give you a better organ than the Electro 3 (while, as I said, the Kurz gives you at least comparable pianos/EPs, and the Wave gives you better sample-based stuff plus the knobby VA).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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