OT - Running

[Phred]

Resurrecting 5 month old thread. I did my 3rd ever 1/2 marathon this weekend, and clocked in at 1h41m26s. My personal best by about 7minutes. I am super thrilled!!

 

I paced with the 1:40 pace bunny (he had devil horns (Halloween) and a big sign that said 1:40) for the first half of the race. At about 11K in I had a mental lapse in focus that lasted about 5K. I felt like I couldn't keep the pace up, and lost about 15seconds a kilometer for about 5 km (I was running 5min/km instead of the required 4:45min/km). Then I was able to snap out of it, and pick up my pace to run the last 5 at the same pace I started.

 

I truly believe that there is a mental block that great runners are able to over come, that stops mediocre runners from achieving what they are capable of physically. I am thrilled with my time, but I KNOW my body is able to crack 1:40, my brain just doesn't know it yet.

 

This week I will sign up for the Ottawa full Marathon that happens in May 2012. YIKES - wish me luck.

[Joe P]

Phred - wow great time in the Half. Way faster than me, man! Good luck in the full marathon, I don't think I have that in me.

 

Yes, there's a huge mental aspect to running, it's something that you want to stop doing as soon as you start doing it - and it goes from there and manifests itself in different ways. Congrats to you for overcoming it.

 

I had a good thing going at a trail on my way home from work to get in 5 hilly miles before dark but I hurt my back and have been sidelined the past 2 weeks. Hopefully, I'll be back out there soon.

 

Keep running!

 

Regards,

Joe

[Phred]

Thanks Dave and Joe - I am SUPER pleased with my time. It was a good course, fairly flat with the uphills up front and finished on a nice gradual downhill. That with it being cool made it a pretty good course for PRs.

Your time is a notch under 7:45 per mile pace.

Yeah - The goal was 4:45/KM, and I hit something like 4:48/KM.

 

I started going back to the track at Cal Tech in Pasadena on Wed nights the beginning of Oct. I needed a stimulus to my jump start my daily runs which are becoming more of the plodding quality these days.

 

Change is a really good thing sometimes. Break the rut. I had the same issue with my training. I wasn't getting any faster, and it was frustrating. I changed it up by speeding up my LSD (Long Slow Distance) runs, and working harder in my intervals.

 

I have the Garmin GPS thingy that tracks your average pace. For a 6-8 mile run, I haven't been under 9 minute pace for a long time.

I love my Garmin, but it was one of the things that I think stagnated my training. I was too intent on keeping my pace to the speed my Garmin wanted it. Like "the garmin says I should slow down...". Now I use it more after the fact to see how my training run went.

 

There are a lot of hills where I live though.

 

That is a very different beast, and not too many hills here. Probably nothing that you would call a real hill anyway. I am SHOCKED by how much effort hills are.

 

I've been trying to motivate myself lately with some 3 mile tempo runs after a 3 mile warmup-last week I did 7:12, 7:17 and then 7:35 with a hill at the end. The first two miles are downhill though.

 

That's fast. Especially with hills. I have JUST broken 22 mins for my 5KM, (I think it was 21:24) and it was super hard. Training run though, I think I could do it a little faster in a race.

 

...I was trying to stay at 40 miles a week-it just seems harder to keep it up there now at 58 though. It's almost more mental then physically not being able to do it. I'll do maybe two 40 mile weeks in a row and then it'll go back down to 25 or something.

 

Yup. I hear ya on this one. It's almost too easy to skip a run especially if you run by yourself. I do some of my runs with a friend. Also I run home from work sometimes (either 15k or 25K - depending on whether or not my wife drives me part of the way home). When you are commuting, you don't really have a choice .

 

One thing I've noticed is that on gig days I have to do a very light run or take off entirely. Heck when I was 40, I'd do a 20 miler in the mountains then in the evening go play a 6 hour wedding gig with no problem.......father time.

 

I had a gig the night before. I got home at 2:30am. Then got up at 7:45 for the run. I was super worried about it, but it didn't seem to impact it too much. HOWEVER. I am 38.

 

I am concerned about the marathon that I am going to sign up to do in may. The issue is that much of my training will be when the weather SUCKS. Like snow, and ice, and slush and freezing. And then the run will be potentially hot and humid.

 

I suspect that this isn't an uncommon issue, but it is scaring me a bit.

 

 

[Phred]

I had a good thing going at a trail on my way home from work to get in 5 hilly miles before dark but I hurt my back and have been sidelined the past 2 weeks. Hopefully, I'll be back out there soon.

 

I am concerned about getting injured, however am lucky enough to not have that problem yet. I did move at the end of Sept, and didn't run that whole week, and even that set me back a bit.

[Still Learning]

Nice job Phred! 1:41:26, Fantastic! My best half is 1:47:17, You were flying! I totally agree with you Joe and all you guys, there is a huge mental aspect to running, Don't ya just love those precious few times when you're out on a run and everything feels just perfect, a perfect pace, perfect cadence, perfect breathing rhythm, I love those days! Good luck on the Ottawa full Marathon!

 

Dave: you gonna sign up for that Pasadena Rock & Roll Half? I'm giving it some serious thought. And when are you gonna get your butt out here and run with us? Every Tues. night we're at Oak Park H.S. at 6pm for a fun track workout. We usually head over to Latigo Kid after for margaritas and food (OK mostly margaritas). I ran Runyon Canyon a while back and I just ran the Long Beach marathon with 14 friends. Ran a 4:11 with no training. We went to a bar called Joe Jost's afterwards, great times!

[Phred]

Thanks guys. I booked the 42k run!!! What have I done?!?!?!?!

[FatMarathoner]

Got my third marathon coming up early Nov., a trail mara. in Northern Mass. Done many halfs (halves?) and 10Ks. I have a love-hate thing going with running, but it has been my sole form of exercise lo these many years, long after organized sports- including rugby- fell by the wayside.

 

Something I hope future running brings is weight loss. So far the one thing that has kept pace with my running and training schedule has been eating and beer drinking. As soon as I change some of those habits, I imagine I'll have to change my name for this forum.

[Phred]

FM,

 

I hear you about the love/hate thing. I usually love it, but sometimes I wonder if I should just stop. I don't expect to lose weight by running, but I am certain that it is helping keep my weight down.

 

I remember reading an article once that resonated with me (I think it was brought up on here by Dave Horne a long time ago) called something like like: "Exercise will not make you skinny". It had a bunch of theories, and that said that people that ONLY use exercise, and not a diet change, will not see the weight loss that they are looking for. For example, after a 20min workout, someone might feel "It's ok to have these two chocolate bars, because I worked out today").

 

On a related note, I think that if I lost a further 10 pounds, I would be faster. I am not currently overweight, but I am heavy for a runner in my pace group. I suspect I am working a little harder than people carrying less weight. I have the issue described in the article. On days when I run, I get hungrier and eat late at night.

[Joe Muscara]

From what I understand, what you're talking about regarding weight loss/gain and running is pretty common.

 

I was at my barber's yesterday. He's done marathons and we were talking about this very subject. He says he sees it all the time. Someone will start running to lose weight, then they get bit by the running bug, start doing these events, and the weight loss stops.

[stepay]

Resurrecting 5 month old thread. I did my 3rd ever 1/2 marathon this weekend, and clocked in at 1h41m26s. My personal best by about 7minutes. I am super thrilled!!

 

I paced with the 1:40 pace bunny (he had devil horns (Halloween) and a big sign that said 1:40) for the first half of the race. At about 11K in I had a mental lapse in focus that lasted about 5K. I felt like I couldn't keep the pace up, and lost about 15seconds a kilometer for about 5 km (I was running 5min/km instead of the required 4:45min/km). Then I was able to snap out of it, and pick up my pace to run the last 5 at the same pace I started.

 

I truly believe that there is a mental block that great runners are able to over come, that stops mediocre runners from achieving what they are capable of physically. I am thrilled with my time, but I KNOW my body is able to crack 1:40, my brain just doesn't know it yet.

 

This week I will sign up for the Ottawa full Marathon that happens in May 2012. YIKES - wish me luck.

 

NICE 7-minute PR! PRs are awesome. From the way you ran that half marathon (mostly steady pace it seems), I have no doubt that you will do just fine in the marathon in May. I'm sure you have a plan, but unless you are trying to keep injuries at bay, at least two runs of 20 miles+ are in order. I always liked to run at least one of 22-23 miles beforehand, but it's not necessary if your goal is just to finish. The more long runs you can do at 20+ though, the easier time you will have.

 

The most important piece of information I ever got from another runner with regard to marathons and ultramarathons (from my former boss Doug Latimer, a former winner of the Western States 100 mile run) was, "expect despair to set in at some point". If you expect it, then it is not a surprise. Sometimes you'll run a marathon with no despair, but you should expect it. Keep moving and usually the despair eventually leaves you.

[Joe P]

I suspect I am working a little harder than people carrying less weight. I have the issue described in the article. On days when I run, I get hungrier and eat late at night.

 

Weight loss can help prevent injury too. Less pounding on the joints. I bet you would be faster too, Phred. Or should I say EVEN faster?

 

As for eating, my appetite borders insatiable when I am doing a lot of miles. Like there is no off switch. Everybody is different, but for me I can't seem to eat enough. It actually becomes a nuisance. I'm always planning around food because when I get hungry I go downhill fast. I'm not interested in sweets, I need good calories not empty ones. One exception: BEER.

 

Regards,

Joe

[Joe P]

"expect despair to set in at some point".

 

This is awesome!

[Ionian]

I love running, unfortunately I have a ligament problem in my left knee that kicks in like clockwork between 5 and 5 1/2 miles.

 

I finally gave it up because the one thing that's more depressing than not running, is having to stop running when you're not even close to having to stop.

 

I think it's fixable with surgery but I don't want to go that route if need be. It only bothers me running past 5 miles. I've tried everything and instead have switched to both skating and biking which seem to not affect my knee.

 

You guys who can run until your body drops, consider yourselves blessed!

 

And Gratz Phred!!

 

Regards,

Frank

[Dave Ferris]

Dave: you gonna sign up for that Pasadena Rock & Roll Half? I'm giving it some serious thought. And when are you gonna get your butt out here and run with us? Every Tues. night we're at Oak Park H.S. at 6pm for a fun track workout. We usually head over to Latigo Kid after for margaritas and food (OK mostly margaritas). I ran Runyon Canyon a while back and I just ran the Long Beach marathon with 14 friends. Ran a 4:11 with no training. We went to a bar called Joe Jost's afterwards, great times!

 

Nah, this Nov. it will be 6 years since my last race-Santa Clarita Half. I actually did a respectable 1:35 but I was 52 and the wheels started coming off, one injury after the other. I just lost all interest in racing and pushing myself. Testing the waters as they say again with these track workouts. Who knows maybe it will re-ignite that competitive spark again.

 

I know I've been a flake as far as getting out there. Can't do it during the week, hate the traffic. On the weekends something's always going on gig or rehearsal wise it seems. Hell I haven't even been out to Cheeseboro or Ahmanson in ages, I miss the trails for sure. LA basically sucks with the traffic 24/7. You end up never wanting to leave your hood. That 101 is a nightmare all the time.

 

I used to run Runyon Cyn. back in the early '90s at lunch time in the heat of the day when I was working at Musician's Institute in Hollyweird. I remember it was short but really steep climb up to Mulholland.

 

Congrats on your 4:11 at Long Beach. That's awesome for just running on the chops you already had. I used to do that when I was younger.

 

That course has changed dramatically since I used to do it all the time. I'll always have special memories of LB-it was my first marathon in 1988 at 3:45 and then my PR at age 47 in 2000 at 3:14:20.

[stepay]

I love running, unfortunately I have a ligament problem in my left knee that kicks in like clockwork between 5 and 5 1/2 miles.

 

I finally gave it up because the one thing that's more depressing than not running, is having to stop running when you're not even close to having to stop.

 

I think it's fixable with surgery but I don't want to go that route if need be. It only bothers me running past 5 miles. I've tried everything and instead have switched to both skating and biking which seem to not affect my knee.

 

You guys who can run until your body drops, consider yourselves blessed!

 

And Gratz Phred!!

 

Regards,

Frank

 

Yep. Staying injury free is a big problem as you get older especially. At 45, I've had calf problems for more than 10 years now...can train for a while and then BAM! calf cramp that forces me to stop and then I can't run again for at least a week. It happens most often when running downhill, so I try to avoid that if possible. I'm currently just running 20-30 minutes 6 days a week with no immediate goal in mind other than some weight loss.

[Phred]

Ionian,

Sorry to hear about your injuries. I have been lucky so far. Knock on wood.

 

Dave F,

 

Great track workout!!! You are inspiring!!! You PR of your Marathon seems like an impossible target... I am blown away by those times of yours....

 

 

You guys are full of excellent advice and encouraging words. The despair quote is really awesome (thanks Stepay), and scary at the same time. I can see it happening, and have had mini experiences with it in the shorter runs...

 

Stepay, my training plan that I am planning on following has 3 20mile runs in it. I have done a 30K run before (I think that's about 18.5 miles) - but that is the furthest... so far.

 

I am, and strive to be, a steady runner. In that last half, my pace slowed for 5 k, but I fixed it. I really strive to find my rhythm and stick to it. I am planning the same thing for the marathon, but I expect the last 10K to royally suck. I expect that my pace will really slow. I now will also expect despair to set in too.

 

I am telling everyone that I am 'just hoping to finish', but in reality I have a goal. I don't think that my goal is ridiculous, but I am entering into the unknown here and don't know how my body will react during the final 10K. My hope is to continue to be a steady runner, just at a slower pace than my 1/2M pace. In my research, it seems like the slower pace I should target is about 30seconds a K slower. So roughly 5:20/K. Which would target me at 3h 45m, which I would be super happy with.... As I train, my goal is adjustable.

 

Most people think of a 1/2 marathon as closer to a Marathon than it is to a 10k. But that is very wrong. A halfM is only 12K more than a 10K run, and 21K less than a marathon.

[Marzzz]

I hear you about the love/hate thing. I usually love it, but sometimes I wonder if I should just stop. I don't expect to lose weight by running, but I am certain that it is helping keep my weight down.

 

I remember reading an article once that resonated with me called something like: "Exercise will not make you skinny". It had a bunch of theories, and that said that people that ONLY use exercise, and not a diet change, will not see the weight loss that they are looking for.

 

On a related note, I think that if I lost a further 10 pounds, I would be faster. I am not currently overweight, but I am heavy for a runner in my pace group. I suspect I am working a little harder than people carrying less weight. I have the issue described in the article. On days when I run, I get hungrier and eat late at night.

 

Running will definitely help with the weight (it raises your basal metabolism over a 24 hr period), but you still have to eat sensibly. If you are hungry late at night, restrict yourself to protein. Funny thing for me, I had an ACL repair six months ago, and was advised to cycle instead of run in order to not need a total knee later on. Immediately prior to my surgery, I went lo carb and have actually dropped 30#. I was never able to run weight off like that, even when I was much younger. I kinda miss running a little, but I have run 8 marathons (including Columbus, Stepay!), so I have definitely checked running off on my bucket list....

 

As far as the marathon: Good Luck! A few bits of advice: 1) Don't over train- build a base of being able to run 10K nearly every day, and throw in a few longer runs (15, 20, 25K) weekly up until several weeks out. My last long run would be an 18-miler (about 30K) about three weeks before the marathon. There is really no need to run a full marathon prior to the actual marathon. 2) Do not try to "bank time" early on to try to reach a time goal- literally every extra minute/mile you gain early on will end up costing you 2-3 minutes/mile toward the end, trust me! You want to have a nice steady pace, and resist the urge to go out fast. 3) By the same token, the first half of a marathon is miles 1-20, the last half is miles 20-26. I would literally hold myself back (no matter how great I felt) and then let it all out starting around mile 20. Again, good luck!

[Dave Ferris]

Well, had a pretty decent 8 miler this morning and finished 2011 at 1607 miles. A little up from the past two injury plagued years but about 20% less then my streak of 2000 miles or more a year for 18 straight years.

 

1607 comes out to around a tad under 31 miles a week. I'd like to push that up to around 1800 or 35 a week next year.

 

But after being injury free all year (I didn't have to get on the bike once..hooray !!) my chronic degenerative arthritis , which has caused me much pain in my two big toe joints on both feet, has now moved over to my right "index" toe next to the big toe.

 

It was so bad at the track Wed. night I had to stop after two 800s, I couldn't even do the mile cool down the pain was so excruciating. It was challenge just depressing the accelerator on the car driving home. If it's the same story as the big toes, it's basically bone on bone. This is a big drag, after week #12 at the track I was just feeling like I was starting to come back-I was getting stronger and faster ...I might have to lay off the speedwork because to run faster you have to get up on your toes to push off thus putting a lot of stress on those toe joints.

 

This is not to mention the pain from using the sustain pedal, pedaling ballads or Classical music....jeez.. don't get old, it sucks ! Just stop at about 45 or so...

 

Might look into this Prolotherapy thing where they inject the arthritic joints with diluted sugar water. It supposedly reduces inflammation and can promote actual cartilage growth. An older runner friend of mine in his 70's had this series of shots for his knee and is back to racing 5 & 10Ks. He's super competitive and is back to winning most races in his age group. It's not a cheap procedure. I'm looking into seeing if or how much is covered under our insurance.

 

In any case after Thurs & Friday off, I got through an 8 miler this morning, it was painful the first two miles but the joint seemed to warm up a little after about 20 minutes into it, I just took it real easy. If I can get up tomorrow morning after tonight's late gig, I have an 11 miler on the trails scheduled with my running club.

 

Here's to an injury free 2012 to all of us runners...

[eric]

Hey this is a cool thread and I need to read the whole thing. I just got into running for the fourth quarter of 2011 and I'm really hooked. Before, I had done very light running and a couple of 5k sans training.

 

I started simple with a mile or two per day in early Oct and built that up to near six miles per day, average 25-30 miles per week in the past 6 weeks. I really enjoy it. I've done several "polar bear" 5k and an 8k, considering a train for half marathon in 2012.

 

Great way to start the day!

[Joe P]

Hey this is a cool thread and I need to read the whole thing. I just got into running for the fourth quarter of 2011 and I'm really hooked. Before, I had done very light running and a couple of 5k sans training.

 

I started simple with a mile or two per day in early Oct and built that up to near six miles per day, average 25-30 miles per week in the past 6 weeks. I really enjoy it. I've done several "polar bear" 5k and an 8k, considering a train for half marathon in 2012.

 

Great way to start the day!

 

Do it Eric! You will love the half distance.

 

 

Regards,

Joe

[stepay]

Half marathons are a blast...far enough to have to train for them if you don't want to die, but not so far that you have to trudge through 20-mile training runs.

 

Hey this is a cool thread and I need to read the whole thing. I just got into running for the fourth quarter of 2011 and I'm really hooked. Before, I had done very light running and a couple of 5k sans training.

 

I started simple with a mile or two per day in early Oct and built that up to near six miles per day, average 25-30 miles per week in the past 6 weeks. I really enjoy it. I've done several "polar bear" 5k and an 8k, considering a train for half marathon in 2012.

 

Great way to start the day!

 

Do it Eric! You will love the half distance.

 

 

Regards,

Joe

[Dave Ferris]

I was barely able to finish a 4 miler this morning because of the toe pain. Not a great way to start off 2012...

 

Checked into this Prolotherapy, it's around $2500 for a series of shots over a month. My insurance does not cover this.

 

I have an appointment with a Rheumatologist this Thurs. for a cortisone shot. Shots in the past with the in network podiatrist have never worked that well...

This particular Rheumatologist gave me one 2 years ago in my left big toe and it got my off the dreaded bike and back to running. It's still expensive with my deductible since she's out of network and a specialist but a lot cheaper alternative to $2500...

[Joe P]

Dave,

That sucks about the toe. Congrats on the 1607 miles, though!

 

Running injuries are tough because they can remove such a positive force in your life. My training partner has been out with a bad back with therapy, injections etc. for 6 months. He may be done and he is BUMMED. Sucks for me too because I don't know anybody who can replace him.

 

Good luck with your foot, I am sure it will all work out for you.

 

Regards,

Joe

[Justin Havu]

I started running last summer, with 2 miles two to three times a week. It's kinda hard to keep going in the winter months due to low temps (I live in southern Maine.) Listening to my iPod while I'm out running is fun, too. I almost zone out and while listening to music, I sometimes forget that I'm running. I'm currently working on upping my distance from 2 miles to maybe 3 or 4. I can do 2 easily, it's all about challenging myself.

[Dave Ferris]

Had my cortisone shots on Thursday-one in the left big toe & one in the new arthritic joint of the right index toe. My last shot was Feb. of 2010, so I got two years and over 3000 miles out of that one. Everything feels pretty good although I haven't run a step since Thursday morning when I did my 8 miler.

 

The doc made me promise I'd take at least 4 days off and just do the bike. So the last two days I broke out my Ellsworth Truth and have been climbing the fireroads in the Verdugo Mountains behind my house. Yesterday was tough. Hadn't been on the bike in at least 8 months. I had to stop twice in the 3 mile climb my a** was so sore. Today went all the way across the Verdugo mountain range, a lot of climbing. Covered around 18 miles in just under two hours--time for a nap..

 

Will probably go out to Las Virginnes/Ahmanson Ranch tomorrow and tool around out there for a change of scenery. Monday hit the gym and Tues. test the waters with maybe a 5 miler.

 

Today was fun. Incredible weather for riding right now. Nice to be on the trails, no f..ing cars. It's just different when I go to write in my log under miles run and it's a big zero...

[Joe P]

I started running last summer, with 2 miles two to three times a week. It's kinda hard to keep going in the winter months due to low temps (I live in southern Maine.) Listening to my iPod while I'm out running is fun, too. I almost zone out and while listening to music, I sometimes forget that I'm running. I'm currently working on upping my distance from 2 miles to maybe 3 or 4. I can do 2 easily, it's all about challenging myself.

 

Justin,

Try doing some repeats or speed intervals once a week. It will help you to increase your distance capability.

 

Good luck,

Joe

[GovernorSilver]

Had my cortisone shots on Thursday-one in the left big toe & one in the new arthritic joint of the right index toe. My last shot was Feb. of 2010, so I got two years and over 3000 miles out of that one.

 

Sorry about your arthritic toe. Have you looked into glucosamine supplements? Unfortunately, the info out there is confusing, other than the NIH GAIT (NIH's trial study): http://nccam.nih.gov/research/results/gait/qa.htm

 

Some tweaks to your diet might help too - eating foods that are naturally anti-inflammatory (berries, omega3-rich foods (fish, walnuts, etc.), etc.) and avoiding those that are inflammatory (anything high in processed sugar, potato, etc.).

[Justin Havu]

Justin,

Try doing some repeats or speed intervals once a week. It will help you to increase your distance capability.

 

Good luck,

Joe

 

Is there any major difference between doing interval training on a treadmill and running outside?

[Bronks]

Yepp, treadmill sucks. It´s like a gig in training room. I allways prefer to move myself.

 

Today, nice 19 k run in -9¤C. About an hour and a half. Refreshing!

[Justin Havu]

Yeah, I'm not too worried about speed training--I'll save that for warmer weather. Right now, I'd like to up my distance/endurance. 2 miles is quite easy for me right now.

 

Believe it or not, there's no snow on the ground right now. I could probably do a 2-miler right now if I wanted, (gotta get some food in me first, though.) I actually did 2 yesterday so I'm probably going to focus on strength training today.