OT - Running

[stepay]

Anyone check out the U.S. Olympic Marathon trials this past Sat. in Houston ?

 

Meb Keflezighi was a surprise at first- especially after just winning the NYC Marathon just 9 weeks ago. Ryan Hall the favorite took second. I was unfamiliar with Abdi Abdirahman.

 

Shalane Flanagan, running the second marathon of her career won the women's in an event-record time of 2:25:38. Congrats to Desiree Davila who I also wasn't familiar with and Kara Goucher, whose races I follow somewhat, was third.

 

Sorry so late in replying to this. I was a bit disappointed with the men's race after seeing Dathan Ritzenhein take 4th. He's a real talent that just hasn't seemed to conquer the marathon just yet. I think he eventually will. He briefly held the AR in the 5,000 meters at 12:56 (man that's crazy fast) and I do believe has a 2:06 marathon (or even faster) in him if he can stay healthy. Abdi is a good runner, but he has huge ups and downs, so I'm surprised he beat Ritzenhein, but also not too confident he can do well in the Olympics. Ritz finished 10th and was the top American finisher in the last Olympics. Maybe Ryan Hall can put together a great race this time around.

[justin_havu]

Gig day runs are good. One thing about running is it can give you a peace of mind you wouldn't otherwise have. Equanimity. There can be a transcendent, meditative type of effect because your mind is free. I have worked out a lot of problems, written songs and come up with ideas while running. It's one of the lesser-mentioned benefits. It's also why I don't listen to music while running, aside from the safety aspect.

 

Keep running Justin!

 

Regards,

Joe

 

I rather enjoy listening to music while I'm out running, sometimes I become one with it, and I forget that I'm running. Mind you, I'm still very aware of my surroundings. My music choice varies, but it gravitates towards more heavier stuff (Dream Theater has been my main choice for that) but I like to sometimes listen to my own music as well. It just depends on my mood.

[Phred]

I think I would trip if I ran to Dream Theater - the first bar of 13/8, would really mess me up

 

I too dislike treadmill running, but in the past 3.5 weeks,I have done 90km of it. The main issue is the snow, and ice and freezing rain. I can normally deal with the temps (except for that CRAZY day that I described above: -26ºC / -15ºF), but the roads/paths are not good after a snow or freezing rain, and it seems that we have had a lot of that.

 

I get board on the treadmill. To try to beat boredom, I normally try to make a game out of my pacing... Here is what I did yesterday (for example). It's sort of a modified tempo run. The first 0.62 Miles at 6.2mph (about 6 minutes). Then up to 7.5MPH, and every 30 seconds increase by 0.1 MPH. When I get to 8MPH run for a couple of minutes at 8MPH, and then start increasing by 0.1MPH every 30seconds until I hit 8.5, and run that for a while. Then I drop to 7.5MPH, and run that for a while until my breathing gets a little more comfortable, and continue gradually increasing again. I did 6.2 Miles (10K) in just under 49mins doing this, and that includes the first warmup KM at 6.2MPH). It keeps me interested in the running, and gives me some goals. Also, I find that it does a good job of making my 7.5MPH (5:00min/km) pace feel slow. Whenever I drop back down to it, I feel relieved, and am able to get my breath back.

 

 

[Bronks]

 

I did yet another 10k on the treadmill yesterday. I suited up for a run outdoors, and made it 0.5K, before heading home, and driving to the gym to hit the treadmill. Some of you that live in the south may get an intense shiver (or may not even believe me) when I say what the temp was yesterday, but it was -26ºC (-15ºF). I hope that the weather gets warmer, so that outdoor runs get a little more bearable.

 

Gold times here too, in Finland. Today I was near the concept "too cold for running". With -20 celsius/ -4 F and windy weather I was really concidering indoor sports. But it was OK to run an easy 10 k, so breathing still doesn't hurt, you know. Anyway, it's nice to have a sauna afterwards...

 

And it still beats treadmill;)

 

[justin_havu]

44°F today! I'm shooting for 3 miles.

 

[justin_havu]

Well, change of plans, I decided to do my usual 2-mile route. Finished in just under 20min.

[justin_havu]

Did another 3 miles today. 44°F today, couldn't pass it up!

 

I would like to start doing some more core exercises to help with my posture and such. Any recommendations?

[Dave Ferris]

Start with very simple stuff like push ups, dips , pullups, seated or standing rows, lat pulldowns. If full body weight pullups or dips are too much, join a gym and do 'em on the weight assisted machines. That's a good place to start.

 

Incorporating one leg exercises on balance/wobble/rocker boards not only adds core strength but balance which in turn can benefit your running, strengthen connective muscles/ligaments and help keep injuries away.. I've been doing one leg squats, arm curls and various other exercise with the wobble and rocker boards for years.

http://www.fitter1.com/Catalog/Category/63/Products.aspx

 

The Bosu ball is excellent. Different and in some ways..harder.

http://www.bosu.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=BOSU/story.html

 

I like stability/exercise balls too

 

I'm convinced that without all the extra balance, core and strength training I've done over the past dozen years or so and continue to stay up on- I would not still be running today.

[Iconoclast]

I used to be much more of a pure runner than I am now. Used to log 3x3-6mi runs a week.

 

In Sept I joined a crossfit gym and started running way less. Crossfit workouts frequently work in many shorter runs (400-800M) interspersed in a workout. For example todays workout had 4 seperate 400M runs. One of the points of the crossfit program is to get away from repetetive workouts and injury and to increase your core stregth.

 

As a result my run times at everything less than 5mi have gone down! I'm actually faster by running less.

 

My 4mi last week was 34minutes. My 3mi is 23:50. My 800M is 3:05. I'm 47 and these are speeds I used to run 20 years ago.

 

My point is, there's much more to running than just running. I highly recommend the crossfit or crossfit endurance training program to anyone for any level of fitness. Google and youtube as required, there's plenty of information on crossfit out there.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZdp59yyG0M&feature=relmfu

[Dave Ferris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZdp59yyG0M&feature=relmfu

 

That kind of training is basically incorporating circuits, plyometrics-box jumps, one leg hops, lunges, step ups, etc. It's excellent for increasing power, strength and boosting both running economy and v2o max.

 

In my early 50s I was doing a modified version of that at the track. I'd take my balance, rocker boards and a pair of 10 lb dumbells and do a set of 8-10 circuit exercises then run 400 meters at a little faster then 5K race intensity. After about 4-6 of these circuits I was pretty much toast. I did that for about 6 weeks eventually working up to 800 meter repeats. At the end of that 6 weeks when I was doing the 800s it felt effortless, like I was gliding around the track. My stride/form had never felt more efficient then when I was doing that...

 

As I got more into my 50s, the super competitive thing just kinda wore off and I let it go. The on going problems with my feet didn't help matters either. I still do the circuits and plyos at the gym sans the running.

 

But to jump start your running or if you feel like you're in a rut, that circuit program is a great way to break things up with visible results. Just be sure you are well rested before attempting it, do an extensive warmup before and take plenty of recovery days after.

[Phred]

A 9km outdoor run today at 5:00/km, about 7.5 MPH. Felt good, but it was a dig by the end...

 

I did another on tuesday at the same pace (roughly) and it was much easier.

 

Running is funny like that

[Joe P]

Running is funny like that

 

Yep, one day you feel good, the next you feel like crap.

 

I wish I could make it out to my trail, but I don't have the day light yet. Getting tired of the old hampster wheel!

 

Regards,

Joe

[GovernorSilver]

I would like to start doing some more core exercises to help with my posture and such. Any recommendations?

 

Lifeline Power Wheel, which comes with a DVD that shows you how to use it:

http://www.lifelineusa.com/power-wheel.html

 

It works best, imo, with the wheel strapped to your feet.

 

If you can't afford $60 US for a Power Wheel, you could try similar exercises with paper plates or furniture sliders under your feet on a suitable surface (obviously, not carpet/rug). This is a quick tutorial with sample exercises:

http://rosstraining.com/blog/2011/02/24/slider-exercise-tutorial/

 

After you have developed some core strength with a Power Wheel or furniture sliders, you can further develop your core strength with gymnastic rings. This is a good home training course, with a link to a place you can buy rings:

http://www.goldmedalbodies.com/products/rings-one/

 

I worked through Level A, Phase 1 of the Rings One program. I gained some upper body strength but my lack of core strength held me back from advancing to the next level.

 

[Phred]

Last year I did P90X, which had a lot of core stuff in it. Pull ups, and push ups being the best.

 

That power wheel looks very cool - in P90X they did similar things with a towel, on a hard surface.

[GovernorSilver]

Last year I did P90X, which had a lot of core stuff in it. Pull ups, and push ups being the best.

 

That power wheel looks very cool - in P90X they did similar things with a towel, on a hard surface.

 

Heard lot of good stuff about P90X. I guess a towel would work on a wood or tiled floor too, in place of furniture sliders.

 

What the Power Wheel buys you - when its strapped to your feet - over furniture sliders/paper plates/towels under your feet:

 

1. It's inherently less stable, so your core, particularly the obliques, have to work more to keep the wheel from tipping over to either side.

 

2. Pushups are more difficult because the body is already doing extra work to maintain a stable alignment

 

3. Some exercises are just better suited to the wheel.

 

4. The wheel can be used on grass, sand, carpet, etc.

 

5. Elastic bands can be attached to the wheel to increase resistance for some exercises (eg. Hip-Ups, Pike Ups).

[Phred]

I think the biggest point is number 1. I didn't think of that... It's amazing what a little instability can do.

 

 

[justin_havu]

Did 2.5 miles today in just under 30min. 60°F today, and no better way to take advantage of that!

[Dave Ferris]

Hey that's great Justin ! Sounds like spring is in the air back there. That will definitely motivate one to get out and do stuff..

 

Last Sat. I did an 18.7 miler out at the Ahmanson/Cheeseboro area. We started at the Vanowen trail head and ran the long loop...slow.

 

Some real gnarly hills throughout. I kinda bonked on the way back towards the end and had to walk it for a few minutes. We started a little too late for me and it got hot-real fast. I think between the heat, hills and basically not having the chops to go that far-last time I'd run that far was that exact loop on 6/26/10- I just kinda *hit the wall* at about 2 hours and 40 minutes into it. I finished in about 3:10. I'm just glad I was able to get through it.

 

Ran 6 on Sunday in just under an hour and felt OK but my body was definitely telling me to take a few days off running. So I was on the mountain bike Monday, went to gym on Tuesday, ran a very slow 8 yesterday and will probably take today totally off.

[stepay]

I like the stories of the running...I am continuing to have calf problems. I would LOVE to go for an 18.7 mile run or really anything close to that far, but my calves are prohibiting me. Went running with my daughter a couple of times last week as she was getting read for track season, and on the second day running with her (I was doing other running too), I had a "calf heart attack" - http://www.thestick.net/Articles/Calf_%20Heart_%20Attack.htm

 

I've had this problem off and on for ~15 years now, and it's very frustrating. Took a couple days off and have since used my Orbitrek. I know not to run again yet for several more days. I coach the distance kids in a summer track program, and right now I need to lose 30 pounds and get past this injury so that I can run a little with them if I want to (I usually want to). I've got just over 3 months before the season starts.

[Joe P]

Justin - keep at it man!

 

Dave - 18.7? I can only aspire to that...

 

Here is a question: I've heard it said, maybe even in this thread, that it's hard to duplicate real running peformance on a treadmill (mill performance will be worse). We'll I've been on the mill for the better part of 4 months mostly around 5.9 mph.

 

So first chance I get, I go out to the track to calibrate my mile time (so I can run by time) and I run 29:32 3 miler. Thinking it was a fluke I went out again the next day and did 29:29.

 

So my outdoor running is faster than my mill running. I have to admit it felt more strenuous, but the pace felt right (I have hundreds of mill miles at 5.9 mph).

 

Kinda baffled me.

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the start of daylight savings so I can stop at a trail on my way home from work. It's a 1.5 mile hilly loop with a couple of stunners. They run a lot of h.s events there and it played a huge role in my training for last year's half. It's at the site of the now defunct Greystone Psychiatric Hospital formerly known as the New Jersey State Lunatic Asylum (I kid you not). Creepy place. Huge. It's park now and most of the creepy buildings are gone, but the huge main building remains.

 

http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/2009/04/large_Greystone-Park-Psychiatric-Hospital.jpg

 

Better yet:

 

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4050/4577724478_915091e775_z.jpg

 

 

Regards,

Joe

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm a crossfitter and only do distance running a couple times a month now. Maybe 3-4 times a month I'll do 3-4 miles.

 

Last week I thought I'd try something I hadn't tried in years: Run a one mile flat out for time. 6:55 which is probably the best I've run since my late 20's. I took a three minute rest and ran a second mile at 7:30.

 

I bring this up becuase my 3-4 mi times have been going down by doing shorter more intense workouts. I have way less running injuries this way.

 

For some of you older guys nursing injuries, I'd recommend this approach. Hit it harder, just not for as long. A really intense workout only needs to be 8-15 minutes long to have effect.

[Phred]

I truly enjoy reading the running stories from everyone. I get inspired by all of the great stories. My training for the may marathon is going well, despite a couple of bad weeks (last week I was on a cruise and managed to run 25K (four separate days) on the track on the boat. Round and round - the track went around the outside of the boat and was 1/3 of a mile. 5 miles at a time was all I could take...

 

Today I had a great 5 mile run that went like this:

1 Mile - warm up - slow jog

2 minute rest

3.1 miles (5K) in 21:02 which is btw my fastest 5K ever.

1 mile cool down - very slow jog.

 

I even sprinted at the end of my 5K when I realized that I was so close to breaking 21mins. Almost, but not quite. Sprinting when I am spent is difficult for me, and the more speedwork like this that I do, the better I get at it.

 

I have a 16K (uh, about 10miles I think - just under) scheduled for this weekend. The whether is finally getting better and my trails are starting to clear up. A little standing water, but MUCH better than a few weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

[Iconoclast]

That's a pretty fast 5k.

 

I've always considered a 5k to be 3.2mi but I just looked it up and 3.1 is closer to correct. Looks like I've been running an extra tenth for years! Regardless I couldn't beat 21.02. More like 24-25 for me.

 

My workout this morning incorporated 10m shuttles and 100m shuttles between other anerobic elements.

 

I've been working out like mad but haven't really had the weather to do any good distances. Hoping to get a 3-4 miler in sometime this week if the springlike conditions hold.

[Phred]

Thanks, I am happy with that speed. eventual goal is that pace for 10k, but that's a WAYS off. Speaking of 10k races... I need some advice.

 

I am running in a 10k race this saturday (March 17th - a st. patty's day race...). I don't need to get a PR or anything, but I would like to perform well (A PR for my would be to beat 47mins). For my marathon training, I am also scheduled to run an 18 KM run this week. My question is to you experts; when at what intensity should I do that 18k? I am on a rest day today, (Ran 3 days in a row: fri-8k (inc 5k speedwork), sat-16k (tempo run about 5min/km), sun-5k(inc 3k speedwork)) so the earliest that I could do it is tomorrow(tues). Will that give my legs enough time to heal before my 10k race on saturday? If I can't do it until wednesday, will I still be good to go by saturday?

 

Thanks for your help.

[justin_havu]

Thought I'd try something a little different yesterday--a morning AND an evening run. Ran my normal 2-mile route in the morning, and again in the evening. A little bit fatigued but I'll be ready to go back out tomorrow.

[stepay]

Don't think your 10k pace being the same as your current 5k best has to be that far off. If you continue to get the long runs in and you stay injury free, you could get there by end of summer (or earlier).

 

Also, your 5k time suggests a 10k time NOW of about 44 minutes. Unless your endurance right now is really bad or the course is super hilly or the weather is horrible when you run it, you should EASILY be able to get under 47 minutes based on your 5k fitness. If I were you, I'd plan to go through 5k right on 22 minutes flat and then see what's left. If you KNOW you can't do that, then shoot for 22:30 and try to run a 45:00 10k. VERY within your reach I think.

 

Now for your question. I would run the 18k training run at a relaxed (conversational) pace. Getting the run in on Tuesday would be best. If you run it on Wednesday, make sure to not run too much on Thursday or Friday. You might even want to not run at all on Friday and maybe just 3-4 miles on Thursday at an easy pace. If you've been running regularly so that this week of running isn't more than you've been doing (and it seems like it isn't) then you should be ok.

 

Don't be afraid to go for that 10k PR. You really are in shape enough to do it based on that 5k time; it's not an exact science of course, but you should be able to easily bust 47 minutes. Don't talk yourself into not going for it...too many runners do that. If you feel good and the weather is good and the course is decently flat, then go for it!

 

Thanks, I am happy with that speed. eventual goal is that pace for 10k, but that's a WAYS off. Speaking of 10k races... I need some advice.

 

I am running in a 10k race this saturday (March 17th - a st. patty's day race...). I don't need to get a PR or anything, but I would like to perform well (A PR for my would be to beat 47mins). For my marathon training, I am also scheduled to run an 18 KM run this week. My question is to you experts; when at what intensity should I do that 18k? I am on a rest day today, (Ran 3 days in a row: fri-8k (inc 5k speedwork), sat-16k (tempo run about 5min/km), sun-5k(inc 3k speedwork)) so the earliest that I could do it is tomorrow(tues). Will that give my legs enough time to heal before my 10k race on saturday? If I can't do it until wednesday, will I still be good to go by saturday?

 

Thanks for your help.

[stepay]

If you ever want to see your "equivalent performances", go here - http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/site/calculator

 

In Phred's case, his 21:02 5k suggests a 43:42 10k. Too bad these calculators aren't accurate, because everyone has a BEST distance...I WISH I could run a marathon at the time my best 5k suggests! It's fun to look at though.

[Phred]

Thanks. I am going to run that 18k tonight, and was planning on doing it at conversation pace.

 

WOW, that page is being favorited. Thanks.

 

I will go for the PR. I was hoping that I could get my 10k under 45mins this summer, and maybe my goal should be a bit loftier, or at least earlier. I'll report back about my time for this weekend's race.

 

I think that I am in better shape than I know I am, and fully believe that it is my brain that keeps me from goals that are within reach. Even at shorter distances (10k). during races, I am constantly fighting my own self who wants me to slow down, or take a little break ("no one will know if you pretend to tie your shoe...").

 

 

[stepay]

Fine to take baby steps toward that 45 minute 10k goal, but I really do think you COULD do it this time. Where you'll get yourself into trouble is if you go through the 5k too fast in 21:30 or something like that; then you'll likely crash and burn. If 45 minutes really is the goal for this race, you should shoot for halfway at about 22:25 or so. It IS a race after all. If you go out TOO conservatively, you won't be able to make up the time on the back half.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks. I am going to run that 18k tonight, and was planning on doing it at conversation pace.

 

WOW, that page is being favorited. Thanks.

 

I will go for the PR. I was hoping that I could get my 10k under 45mins this summer, and maybe my goal should be a bit loftier, or at least earlier. I'll report back about my time for this weekend's race.

 

I think that I am in better shape than I know I am, and fully believe that it is my brain that keeps me from goals that are within reach. Even at shorter distances (10k). during races, I am constantly fighting my own self who wants me to slow down, or take a little break ("no one will know if you pretend to tie your shoe...").

 

[Phred]

Will do. I am going to go out the gate pacing at (quick math) at just a HAIR faster than 4:30 /km. I'll let you know how it goes.