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Phred

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I have switched to minimalist running shoes and am so glad I did. Two months into it, but so far so good, and thinking I will never go back to regular running shoes.

 

"minimalist" is the term applied to the new breed of running shoe that basically gives you no cushion, just a thin bit of grippy rubber between your foot and the ground. The theory behind them is that it returns you to a more natural running style where you land on the ball of your foot and use your natural shock absorbing system, rather than landing on the heel of a running shoe and relying the cushioning of the shoe. A few different companies make them, but I've been using the Vibram "5 fingers," which is probably the most popular model and definitely the most funny-looking.

 

I run 15-20 miles a week, not a lot by real runner's standards. But I was having more and more problems with pain in my feet, not so much while running, but all the rest of the time. With the 5 fingers, I have no foot pain at all, and most of my other running aches and pains have gone away as well. This alone made the switch worth it. But beyond that, running is just more fun. I feel more connected to the ground and something about this stokes the joy of running for me.

 

You're supposed to start small and gradually increase your endurance, because your putting stress on a new set of muscles and connectors. I gave myself about 6 weeks to work up to my usual mileage.

 

I suspect that minimalist shoes might not be good for attaining top performance in time/distance. I think I'm running a little bit slower in them. The difference is most noticeably on downhill grades, where regular shoes allow you to clompclomp landing on your heel with abandon. Without that cushioning, you really have to back off on the downhill shoosses. I don't care, because I don't run for performance.

 

 

Here is a good article on this topic:

 

"Barefoot" Running

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Phred,

 

I haven't been reading here lately (just too busy with life these days), so I missed your two recent PRs in the 10k and half marathon. Congrats!

 

I've been running a little more than normal recently, so that's good. Ran 3 miles last night...right now, it's a steady diet of 3 milers. Hoping my calf won't blow up on me.

 

Took my two kids (11 year old son and 15 year old daughter) to a 5K last weekend (my daughter's high school track season has ended), and in a field of 500, she won the women's race in 22:36, just off her PR of 22:29, and he won his age group and finished 7th overall in 21:31. The course had a big hill that had to be run twice, accounting for slower overall times, so both kids were very happy with their times. My son hasn't been on a run of any length in over a month, so for him to run 21:31 on a hilly course with basically no training, I thought was outstanding. He IS very fit and active though...he uses the trampoline every single day for a couple hours even, so it's not like he's a couch potato. He'll run cross country for the first time on a team in the fall in 7th grade, and he's looking forward to that. Training for cross country for both of them begins May 28.

 

Love this running thread.

Steve (Stevie Ray)

"Do the chickens have large talons?"

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Wow!! great times! 11 years old? Great time!!!

 

I would be thrilled if my kids got into running. I am excited and nervous about this first foray into Marathon territory. I am entering into the unknown... I have no idea what I will be like after 34KM, as I have never run that far before. Looking forward, but scared.

 

I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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Wow!! great times! 11 years old? Great time!!!

 

I would be thrilled if my kids got into running. I am excited and nervous about this first foray into Marathon territory. I am entering into the unknown... I have no idea what I will be like after 34KM, as I have never run that far before. Looking forward, but scared.

 

Yeah, thanks...he's quite the athlete. He IS about to turn 12 in 4 more days though, so perhaps a little less impressive. His stated goal right now is to become the best distance runner in the "history of the world". That's quite a task! When I was 11, I wanted to be the centerfielder for the Cincinnati Reds. I'm eager to see how he will do in cross country. Middle schoolers here run 2 miles, and I think a reasonable goal for him after a summer and fall of training is to get under 11:45 or so. We'll see.

 

I understand your feelings about the marathon. Pretty sure that is common to all of us the first time. It is quite an accomplishment, so look forward to that. If you can do 34km without too much trouble, you can manage the slightly over 42km that is the marathon distance. I'm eager to hear how it all goes.

 

Good luck!

Steve (Stevie Ray)

"Do the chickens have large talons?"

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OK, this is my first post on this topic. Around 8 years ago I started a 3 day/week workout and diet regimen, lost about 80 lbs in about 4 yrs. I recently(around 6 yrs ago) added a 3 mile run into my workout routine. At that time, I hadn't done any kind of running since my military days. I run the Chase Corporate Challenge 3.5 mi each year(next Thur will be my 5th year), I will not mention any of my times. Never did a marathon, or even a half-marathon, but I'm slowly but surely working towards either of those feats :)

Kronos 88 Platinum, Yamaha YC88, Subsequent 37, Korg CX3, Hydrasynth 49-key, Nord Electro 5D 73, QSC K8.2, Lester K

 

Me & The Boyz

Chris Beard Band

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Good for you tuck, keep it up.

 

So, my first marathon is over, and I did it!!! I started out pacing the 3:35 pace bunny, and was with him until 28 km, and then I started to get tired. I lost a minute our two by 32 km, but was still pacing 3:40... then... the wheels fell off. Over the next ten KM, I lost another 18 mins off my pace. Walking almost as much as I was running. Still 3:58!!! Under 4, which is a good first marathon for me, and now I have a time to beat.

 

On a scarier note, the guy that I train with was running the half marathon on sunday, and collapsed less than a KM from the end (it is NOT the guy who had heart failure 200m from the end that is all over internet google searches). My friend is still in the hospital with low phosphates. We are hoping he gets out tomorrow early. I had no idea that issues like that could happen (he siad completely no warning, he just felt tired and then fell).

 

Crazy.

I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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Way to go Phred, great job ! :thu: Welcome to the club. :cool:

 

Whether you run one, ten or a hundred, that first one is very special.

 

Yeah mile 20 or so and beyond. It's a tough time in the Marathon not only physically but mentally. You're totally spent in every way. Even the littlest things like someone cutting in front of you at a water stop or throwing a paper water cup in front of you can be magnified X 100 to the point of distraction and frustration.

 

I remember running in my only NYC Marathon in 1989. I got to Central Park and the last 6 miles. It seemed like an eternity. That area in CP is not exactly flat. It has the slightest elevation gain, yet I recall it feeling like Mt. Everest. I remember thinking...whose idea was it to finish with all these steep hills ?! :mad: Out of the 20+ marathons I've finished, the last six at NY were the hardest for me out of any of the others. Heck, I was still a spry 37 at the time .... ;)

 

NYC was only my third marathon and I'm glad I did it for the experience of getting to run through all the boroughs, but wouldn't do it again unless I lived there. Logistically too much of a hassle.

 

Anyway, that's a very good time for your first one. I'm glad you were able to go under 4 hours.. :thu: If you choose to continue the marathon thing, you can build off of that. Take some well deserved time off to recover, a good month of no intense running. Again congrats and hope your friend is ok.

https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709

 

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Dave.

 

It is not a matter of 'if' but WHEN I run my next marathon. I will rest as you mentioned. My legs are stiff, but I am aware that I need to give the ticker and lungs a bit of a rest.

 

I am considering this fall in Toronto(about 4hours away), but I am unsure if I can make it due to scheduling obligations.

 

I think I need to concentrate on my endurance a little more, slow down my long runs a little and get more longer runs in. I have been concentrating on the shorter speedier runs, and they got me to 30 km pretty cleanly, I just need to focus on the end of the race.

 

Thanks for your concern about my running buddy. He is back home resting, and the doctor told him that he had intense heat stroke and depleted his electrolytes. He is still going to continue running, and targeting the fall marathon that I mentioned above in the fall. I am sure he is scared, as I would be too.

 

 

I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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I recently began a walk/run program to improve cardiovascular function. Although I weight train routinely I had allowed aerobic activities to decrease in the past couple of years. In pursuing this I found an iPhone app that is useful for me and perhaps for others. It is called 'Runmeter', or, in other incarnations 'Walkmeter' and 'Cyclemeter'. It has the same engine in each, and each can accommodate walking, running, and cycling. It uses GPS and maps. The GPS is extremely accurate--in a two mile stretch it may only vary by 0.01 mile--and this may be occasioned by my own path variation. The app has been reviewed highly, and I think it is neat. Furthermore, it's inexpensive.

 

http://www.abvio.com/runmeter/

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That's very cool. What you accomplished is definitely something to write about and be proud of. You worked your a** off to finish that race. Even though the numbers are way up for Marathon participants and finishers, the reality of the big picture is the fact that most people would kill to be able to run a Marathon--in under 4 hours no less. :thu:

 

It's good to chronicle your motivations for even starting, as well as your feelings and experiences leading up to the big day. You can look back on that 20 years down the road when you're my age and think...man I remember that time of my life, wasn't that great !!

 

I have EVERY run or workout written down since 1989 in the Jerome book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Runners-Day-By-Day-Log/dp/1449404731

It used to be John Jerome. He passed away a few years back and his son, Marty took over the reins and is doing an outstanding job.

 

Most of the time the past few years my log consists of --starting time , AM or PM, running route, miles run, total elapsed time and average pace. I used to write more personnel feelings down in the log like how I felt or the temperature, etc. Now since I'm old and basically every run feels like shit... :laugh: well at least the first two miles or so till I'm warmed up, I don't write too much else down.

 

I did start (once again :facepalm: ) going back to Cal Tech Pasadena track workouts on Wednesday night. Basically it's good stimulation to be around other runners, even if most them are young enough to be my kid.. :cry:

 

I'm running by myself on the track until I can get the condtioning back to run with Group C, mostly 30 something women.. :blush: But hey a 90 second quarter is a 90 second quarter no matter what the age or gender.

 

It's my third week back and trying to ease into things again. I actually dropped my weekly mileage the last 2 weeks to 25 so I wouldn't risk injury while adding the extra speedwork.

 

Last night I managed 4 X 800 meters (twice around the track) in 3:29, 3:26, 3:22 & 3:21. I finished strong with a 1:35 quarter and then cooled down with a mile jog of barefoot running on the grass football field inside the track.

 

Going to try and push the mileage up close to 40 again this week depending on how the body feels. It's a constant balancing act between trying to hang on to what you have, increase your level of fitness and then not get injured.

https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709

 

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Dave. I have never heard of the Jerome book. Very cool. Good for you on the track work. Good idea to drop the distance when you add the speedwork.

 

I am planning on doing something active today. I might try a bike, or a slow jog. I haven't done anything since sunday and even though I deserve the rest, I am starting to atrophy.

 

Thanks for the support Dave, and keep up your good work as well

I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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My routine is I run almost 10 km Mon, Wed, Fri & walk 5 km Tues & Thurs. This week got screwed up because of work scheduling & I missed running on Mon. So I ran on Tues, walked on Wed, ran on Thurs. It's been a lot of years since I tried running two days in a row. The last time almost killed me. It's always been walk, run, walk, run. But today I said screw it & ran, meaning I've run two days in a row. Wasn't all that much harder running the second day in a row. I'm thinking I might start running every day. I'll try running a km of my 5 km walk day.

 

Anybody have experience running every day?

Steve

 

www.seagullphotodesign.com

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My routine is I run almost 10 km Mon, Wed, Fri & walk 5 km Tues & Thurs. This week got screwed up because of work scheduling & I missed running on Mon. So I ran on Tues, walked on Wed, ran on Thurs. It's been a lot of years since I tried running two days in a row. The last time almost killed me. It's always been walk, run, walk, run. But today I said screw it & ran, meaning I've run two days in a row. Wasn't all that much harder running the second day in a row. I'm thinking I might start running every day. I'll try running a km of my 5 km walk day.

 

Anybody have experience running every day?

 

Hey B3 Guy,

Yeah I run everyday quite often, but it wouldn't be a lot of mileage (6/3/6/3 etc.). This time of year I have so much other stuff to do it's hard to get the running in so I just do 5K a day on the treadmill watching Netflix. That leaves me time to tend to other things that need it this time of year (yard, pool, practice, rehearse, play golf etc.). It becomes part of my daily routine and keeps me at an acceptable (for me) baseline fitness level.

 

Listen to your body and adopt stretching as a way of life, along with rest and hydration. Many times you might feel disinclined to run due to mild muscle soreness or fatigue, but for me I most often just ignore it and it goes away in the first 1/2 mile or so and I end up having a good run.

 

But everybody is different, your body may not like it. But judging from your normal schedule I wouldn't expect you to have any problems.

 

Good luck!

Joe

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Thanks Joe for the info/encouragement. I too kind of ignore those little aches & pains & just go. It's the same as the weather. If you put off running because of a little rain, you'll miss a lot of days. I'll be sure to build up gradually, even though I ran my full route both days & have only a little stiffness when I get up.

 

Thanks again!!

Steve

 

www.seagullphotodesign.com

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I find I can do medium length slowish runs back to back to back, no problem. But put a long run (15km or more) or a speed run in there, and I need a day rest.

 

Give it a try B-3guy. pay attention after the first 5 days. Pay special attention to any 'new' sorenes, and don't try to go too far or too fast several days in a row yet.

I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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What shoes would you guys recommend? Been using DMx max reebok 12.5 wide for years and they are discontinued . Searching stores is a nightmare. I mostly do the stair master and run half mile once a week. Used to run a lot but stopped because of back. I'm looking at these: Nike .

 

Really don't want to order online because returning is not good . If you know any good stores to look at it will help . Maybe a runner store ?

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John, I'm not really familiar with the running stores out by you. But I would try to seek advice from a long time established store....which (like a good music store) is harder to find these days. But knowing how popular running is in the Hispanic communities, I would think there would be a small independent running store in the general vicinity of Whittier.

 

I can recommend Snail's Pace. I think there's one in Huntington Beach. By me there's "Run With Us" in Pasadena on Lake right off the 210. My all time favorite place in the Encino, "Phidippides", changed ownership about a year and half ago. They were the best. Owned and operated by long time serious runners. The owner, Charlie Hoover, used to give R&D advice to major shoe companies like Brooks and Asics. It's now under the Fleet Feet corporate umbrella and while it's still good, it's not the same anymore. So consequently I buy my shoes online from Holabird Sports in Md. or special order through Run With Us.

 

Everyone's foot is different with regard to pronation, supination, neutral, heel or toe striker. Personally I'm more neutral with some supination on my right foot. So I tend to wear the outside of my right shoe down before the midsole...which is kinda unique. But again everyone is different and there's no brand or size that works for everyone.

 

Fwiw, Reebok generally aren't considered mainstream in running shoes. More New Balance, Brooks, Asics, Nike, Saucony, Addias and to a lesser extent Mizuno and a few others. But definitely find a running store, a Sport Chalet or Sports authority type place might have a decent selection but most of the time the kids working there haven't a clue about running.

 

Generally speaking the Brooks shoes have become very popular in the last ten years. Their fit is considered excellent. A popular shoe that works for a lot of people is the Brooks Adrenaline. Again that's not saying it will work for you. Find a store that has a treadmill or lets you run outside a bit, they should watch your form too to see if you pronate or supinate. Fleet Feet in Encino will do that.

 

Try on every brand and style you can. At the old Phidippides, Charlie would have boxes of shoes out on the floor for new customers. You literally couldn't leave his store till you tried on about 8 different pairs. They were special and are sorely missed in the running community. :(

 

Sometimes it almost worth the trip to go to a legit running store and be fitted. Then you can always buy that shoe in that size online if desired.

 

I alternate between the Brooks Dyad (10 4E) and the New Balance 840 (10 2E). The NB has more support for off road trail running and the Dyad is good for pavement although either one are perfectly fine for either surface.

https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709

 

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for that Dave. It's definitely time to step up to a Higher quality shoe and more professional store than shoe city. Years ago my workouts started becoming longer, and I stepped it up more a couple of years ago. Snails pace in Brea is just down the road I will visit them Tomorrow .
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Yup - Get fitted by someone who knows their s#!t. Then once you find one you like, keep buying them.
I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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John, I'm not really familiar with the running stores out by you. But I would try to seek advice from a long time established store....which (like a good music store) is harder to find these days. But knowing how popular running is in the Hispanic communities, I would think there would be a small independent running store in the general vicinity of Whittier.

 

I can recommend Snail's Pace. I think there's one in Huntington Beach. By me there's "Run With Us" in Pasadena on Lake right off the 210. My all time favorite place in the Encino, "Phidippides", changed ownership about a year and half ago. They were the best. Owned and operated by long time serious runners. The owner, Charlie Hoover, used to give R&D advice to major shoe companies like Brooks and Asics. It's now under the Fleet Feet corporate umbrella and while it's still good, it's not the same anymore. So consequently I buy my shoes online from Holabird Sports in Md. or special order through Run With Us.

 

Everyone's foot is different with regard to pronation, supination, neutral, heel or toe striker. Personally I'm more neutral with some supination on my right foot. So I tend to wear the outside of my right shoe down before the midsole...which is kinda unique. But again everyone is different and there's no brand or size that works for everyone.

 

Fwiw, Reebok generally aren't considered mainstream in running shoes. More New Balance, Brooks, Asics, Nike, Saucony, Addias and to a lesser extent Mizuno and a few others. But definitely find a running store, a Sport Chalet or Sports authority type place might have a decent selection but most of the time the kids working there haven't a clue about running.

 

Generally speaking the Brooks shoes have become very popular in the last ten years. Their fit is considered excellent. A popular shoe that works for a lot of people is the Brooks Adrenaline. Again that's not saying it will work for you. Find a store that has a treadmill or lets you run outside a bit, they should watch your form too to see if you pronate or supinate. Fleet Feet in Encino will do that.

 

Try on every brand and style you can. At the old Phidippides, Charlie would have boxes of shoes out on the floor for new customers. You literally couldn't leave his store till you tried on about 8 different pairs. They were special and are sorely missed in the running community. :(

 

Sometimes it almost worth the trip to go to a legit running store and be fitted. Then you can always buy that shoe in that size online if desired.

 

I alternate between the Brooks Dyad (10 4E) and the New Balance 840 (10 2E). The NB has more support for off road trail running and the Dyad is good for pavement although either one are perfectly fine for either surface.

 

What he said.

 

I happen to like Asics Cumulus series. Started with the Cumulus 10's, now I'm at the 12's. The 13's are changing so much I went back & bought another pair of 12's, so I have a spare pair. I like the New Balance 1604's for the winter time. They are not as ventilated as the Asic's & have a higher sole & side so you don't get as many soakers as with the Asics.

 

When you get a brand/model number you like, you'll stick with them. Just human nature.

Steve

 

www.seagullphotodesign.com

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Feeling so demonic. Heiaheia shows, that I've runned 666 kilometers this year today. :)

Don't take me serious, I'm just playing.

------------------------------------------------------------

Gear: Hammond XK5-system, Nord Stage3 Compact, Crumar Seven, Rhodes Mk2; Hammond M44

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Thanks again Dave for the Snails Pace suggestion. Made it there today and loved the store. Tried the Nike shoes I got in the gym but they are not working out . I think they are flatter than the Reeboks, I'll probably exchange them. The prices were very reasonable and if I can get shoes that work I will be a repeat customer.
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  • 3 weeks later...
Good for you tuck, keep it up.

 

So, my first marathon is over, and I did it!!! I started out pacing the 3:35 pace bunny, and was with him until 28 km, and then I started to get tired. I lost a minute our two by 32 km, but was still pacing 3:40... then... the wheels fell off. Over the next ten KM, I lost another 18 mins off my pace. Walking almost as much as I was running. Still 3:58!!! Under 4, which is a good first marathon for me, and now I have a time to beat.

 

On a scarier note, the guy that I train with was running the half marathon on sunday, and collapsed less than a KM from the end (it is NOT the guy who had heart failure 200m from the end that is all over internet google searches). My friend is still in the hospital with low phosphates. We are hoping he gets out tomorrow early. I had no idea that issues like that could happen (he siad completely no warning, he just felt tired and then fell).

 

Crazy.

 

Sorry I'm late to this Phred, but congrats on the marathon. I've run several marathons, and the first one was in...3:58! 1988 Columbus Marathon! Mine was a bit different than yours as I was running with a group of 5 guys, and they all wanted to break 4 hours. We stayed on pace (slightly under) the whole way. It's a great accomplishment though. You've suggested you're going to try to beat that time next time, and assuming it's not a crazy hard course or with crazy weather, you WILL be able to.

Steve (Stevie Ray)

"Do the chickens have large talons?"

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Thanks Man. I have no doubt that I can kill 3:58. None.

 

That said, it's been CRAZY hot here, and humid. Nice days to have a pool, but not so much for running

I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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Thanks Man. I have no doubt that I can kill 3:58. None.

 

That said, it's been CRAZY hot here, and humid. Nice days to have a pool, but not so much for running

 

Yeah...crazy hot here too. I'm the head coach and co-director of a summer youth track program, and last night they had to run in temps around 91 degrees or so (that's about 35 degrees for you!). They were pretty hot.

Steve (Stevie Ray)

"Do the chickens have large talons?"

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  • 2 weeks later...
Well I just tallied up my 6 month total for 2012 and I'm at 760.57 miles.

 

That's well done, sir. I'm still under 500. But still I did quite good sprint triathlon race last sunday. Maybe with your miles I could have won:)

 

Don't take me serious, I'm just playing.

------------------------------------------------------------

Gear: Hammond XK5-system, Nord Stage3 Compact, Crumar Seven, Rhodes Mk2; Hammond M44

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  • 1 month later...
My trumpet player friend, Roy Weigand, just ran a 24 hour solo endurance run for charity. He covered just over 110 miles ending up at the Rose Bowl. :cry:

 

That is unbelievable stuff. I can't imagine being in that shape!!!

 

Did anyone see the 10,000 ?! ELECTRIC !

...

Galen passed the Ethiopian Bekele in the last 50 meters. I was screaming !

 

I was yelling at the TV too!!! It was amazing to see the end of that race. The pace that they had at the end floored me. To run that fast and have that much energy for a sprint at the end of the event was just awesome. To watch Rupp come from out of contention to silver has me shouting. It seemed to me that if he started his sprint 10 seconds earlier, he may have caught the leader...

I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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