OT - Running

[Joe P]

Go Phred!

 

Tonight it's back to Greystone for me, 4 loops/6 miles.

[Cliffk]

Any recommendations for fairly basic GPS watches - distance, laps, times, maybe heart rate? What do you guys use?

[Dave Ferris]

I use the Garmin Forerunner 210. It's just ok. I'm on my 2nd one after the other one (Forerunner 110) died at about 6 months out. As far as measuring miles I find it uneven. I run the same route just about every day and the first mile can vary as much as .10, which is a lot to runners.

 

Before the 210 I had the original Forerunner 201. It seemed a little more consistent with regard to measuring the mileage then the 210, however it was big-looked very stupid on your arm. The good thing about the 201 was you could recall mile splits from the watch without the computer. Plus the battery life was longer compared to the 210. It also *acquired* the satellite faster then the 210 but the reception was worse when you went under a bridge or a clump of trees. It would often "lose satellite connection" were I've had little drop out problems with the 210.

 

After an early evening run at the Rose Bowl, I put the 201 and a pair of $125 Oakley shades on the roof of my car. Received a call from from my wife saying..."where are you ?! Everyone's here for dinner, hurry up and get home !" So I jumped in the car real quick and drove away with both $$$ shades and GPS on the roof of my car. Got home 15 minutes later, was sitting down with family eating and it hit me.....OH NO ! Went back first thing next morning and no sign of the Garmin but the shades were roadkill. Anyway, an expensive lesson.

 

But yeah the 210 will give you splits but without downloading software you can't recall splits. I guess again I'm old school, but sorry I've been using Timex Ironman watches for at least 20 years and have been able to recall every split of every workout from the watch itself.

 

Afaict, none of the Garmins will give split recall without the computer. I'm guessing the new Timex all in one would but again it's seems too big and too expensive. Basically to me-Garmin has the GPS thing down and Timex has the better timer functions.

 

Haven't used a HR monitor in probably 10 years. But I went through a period of using the Polars when they first came out. Again I went through probably at least 5 in the 3 years or so I was using HR monitors. I went through issues with the chest strap, bad reception, spending dough on the "new & improved" one till I finally said, enough of this. Polar execs have gotten enough of my money. I know they've come a long way but I've been doing this so long I'm pretty much able to pin point my HR. I think they're good for new runners that might be training too hard on their easy days.

 

I guess the Garmin 210 is the best for my uses but I'd say buy from a store that will give you a replacement one for a year if it craps out. None of these are super reliable over the long haul I've found.

[Phred]

I use this: Garmin Forerunner 305. http://compare.ebay.com/like/270374661166?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

 

It has a heart monitor that goes on your chest, and bluetooth's to the watch.

 

Also I can save mile (or KM) splits and recall them from the watch. It's bulky, but not too bad. It sometimes take a while to get a bead on a satellite, but usually it's not too bad.

 

P.S. - Dave, I wonder if your watch actually does do split recall, and you just don't know it. I am saying that because I recently showed a buddy of mine how to do it, after he owned the watch for 2+ years and didn't know. Here is how I do it. First, you have to have your watch set to auto lap every KM (or mile, whatever). I forget how I did that, but it is somewhere in the options.:

 

1. Press mode (bottom left button)

2. select 'history'

3. Select 'running' (there are three types of activities)

4. Select 'By Day'

5. Choose the date of the run you want

6. You will see a summary of the run. Select the 'View Laps?'

7. You will see a split for every lap you had setup.

[Dave Ferris]

I use this: Garmin Forerunner 305. http://compare.ebay.com/like/270374661166?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

 

P.S. - Dave, I wonder if your watch actually does do split recall, and you just don't know it. I am saying that because I recently showed a buddy of mine how to do it, after he owned the watch for 2+ years and didn't know. Here is how I do it. First, you have to have your watch set to auto lap every KM (or mile, whatever). I forget how I did that, but it is somewhere in the options.:

 

1. Press mode (bottom left button)

2. select 'history'

3. Select 'running' (there are three types of activities)

4. Select 'By Day'

5. Choose the date of the run you want

6. You will see a summary of the run. Select the 'View Laps?'

7. You will see a split for every lap you had setup.

 

The 305 came out after my 201 and before this newest generation of smaller watch style GPSs that Garmin now puts out.

 

A lot of my friends had the 205 which besides not having the HRM and a few less bells and whistles, is the exact same thing as the 305. They all swear by it. Yes you can recall spilts from that generation of Garmins-just like on my 201 the generation before.

 

On my 210, you go into "history" and it shows the entire workout, no other prompts or options. You can get the first mile split but that's it. Along with that you get your starting time, average pace and calories burned.

 

After I left my 201 on the top of the car and had to shop for a new one, I looked at both the 205 & 301 but the fact they were still asking $150 and up plus I was a little tired of having this giant piece on my wrist so the watch thing seemed more appealing.

 

I read all the Garmin forums after I bought the 110 and realized no recall. I thought if I went up the next level to the 210 it might recall, but nope. The forum posts were inconclusive regarding the 210.

 

Yeah the older generation you have is the best one as far as longevity, reliability and function from a timing standpoint. Again the bulkiness of it got old for me..ymmv...literally.

 

Also the fact I run a lot of trails where I'm under trees and in canyons, I was getting sick of the satellite *dropping out*. The newest generation advertised a new & improved version in that area. And it is better for sure, but again not being able to do the most basic runner requirement-recall mile splits from the watch-that's absurd imo.

 

[Cliffk]

Many thanks, guys.

[Phred]

Update. Five days from my marathon, and I had a pretty scary weekend (training wise). On Thursday my knee was feeling a little tender, but nothing too bad. I did a fairly short (8K), but hilly (really hilly) run on friday. I felt good during the run, but after... I got up out my desk chair and almost fell down!!! It is really hard to explain, and maybe runners know what I am talking about. It was sore, but not too bad, I could walk on it without pain, and probably run on it without pain (didn't try). However I didn't to make sure that my leg was completely straight before I put any weight on it (after getting up) or it would just buckle underneath me.

 

I spent the whole long weekend (Victoria day in Canada) icing, and heating and RESTING. I canceled my last longish (I think 15k) run. I have a pool, so I swam a lot, and that seemed to help. Today it feels great, but I am certainly concerned about further injury. I have a few very short runs this week (topping out at 5k I think). My plan is to do one today, but if I have any (ANY) pain, I will stop and not likely do any more this week. I hate going into the Marathon under-trained, but it beats going in injured.

[Joe P]

Phred,

Good luck, I hope it turns out okay. I haven't had knee buckling, but I have had a hip thing that can make me almost fall when I get up after a long period sitting - especially in a car - but it's no problem when I run.

 

I have adopted stretching as a way of life and it seems to help. Even if I am not stretching the joint, stretching the muscles around the joint that load it up usually helps. For instance, constant calf stretching has eliminated any ankle and foot problems I used to have. Maybe others can chime in who have more knowledge and experience.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

 

 

[Phred]

Yeah - I hate to admit it, but stretching is not something I am good at doing. I do it, because I know I have to, but I am likely rushing it, and not doing it enough... Thanks Joe

[Adan]

I have switched to minimalist running shoes and am so glad I did. Two months into it, but so far so good, and thinking I will never go back to regular running shoes.

 

"minimalist" is the term applied to the new breed of running shoe that basically gives you no cushion, just a thin bit of grippy rubber between your foot and the ground. The theory behind them is that it returns you to a more natural running style where you land on the ball of your foot and use your natural shock absorbing system, rather than landing on the heel of a running shoe and relying the cushioning of the shoe. A few different companies make them, but I've been using the Vibram "5 fingers," which is probably the most popular model and definitely the most funny-looking.

 

I run 15-20 miles a week, not a lot by real runner's standards. But I was having more and more problems with pain in my feet, not so much while running, but all the rest of the time. With the 5 fingers, I have no foot pain at all, and most of my other running aches and pains have gone away as well. This alone made the switch worth it. But beyond that, running is just more fun. I feel more connected to the ground and something about this stokes the joy of running for me.

 

You're supposed to start small and gradually increase your endurance, because your putting stress on a new set of muscles and connectors. I gave myself about 6 weeks to work up to my usual mileage.

 

I suspect that minimalist shoes might not be good for attaining top performance in time/distance. I think I'm running a little bit slower in them. The difference is most noticeably on downhill grades, where regular shoes allow you to clompclomp landing on your heel with abandon. Without that cushioning, you really have to back off on the downhill shoosses. I don't care, because I don't run for performance.

 

 

[Phred]

I have seen people training in those minimalist shoes, and race in 'regular' shoes. I am not sure that is a good idea, as again different muscles at play. However it speaks to the 'not really good for performance' aspect.

 

It it possible that my issues stem from my shoes. I am not about to try anything new at this point, but after this weekend, I may consider switching up the shoe type.

 

[Adan]

I have seen people training in those minimalist shoes, and race in 'regular' shoes. I am not sure that is a good idea, as again different muscles at play.

 

Yeah, that seems odd. I suppose it's a little like running with weights and then taking the weights off to race. But since it's a very different running style . . . I don't get it.

[Joe P]

Adan, I think there is definitely something to be said for the toe-first strike, and I'm not surprised your ailments went away.

 

Phred, how many miles on your shoes? I meant to change mine out at 400 but didn't and got a hip problem around 450. New shoes - hip problem gone. If they are old maybe you should change them out if you have time to break them in before the race.

 

Regards,

Joe

 

[Phred]

New-ish shoes, but not far from being switched out.. Definately no time to switch em out, as the race is in 5 days...

 

I ran 6.25KM today. No pain. No issue.

 

I am not sure what happened, but the best way to describe the pain/issue I had for about 3-4 days, was as if I over extended my knee. That was what it felt like.

 

 

[Joe P]

New-ish shoes, but not far from being switched out.. Definately no time to switch em out, as the race is in 5 days...

 

I ran 6.25KM today. No pain. No issue.

 

I am not sure what happened, but the best way to describe the pain/issue I had for about 3-4 days, was as if I over extended my knee. That was what it felt like.

 

 

You are good to go man!

 

Have a good race, we want a full report and pics!

 

Regards,

Joe

[Joe P]

I have switched to minimalist running shoes and am so glad I did. Two months into it, but so far so good, and thinking I will never go back to regular running shoes.

 

"minimalist" is the term applied to the new breed of running shoe that basically gives you no cushion, just a thin bit of grippy rubber between your foot and the ground. The theory behind them is that it returns you to a more natural running style where you land on the ball of your foot and use your natural shock absorbing system, rather than landing on the heel of a running shoe and relying the cushioning of the shoe. A few different companies make them, but I've been using the Vibram "5 fingers," which is probably the most popular model and definitely the most funny-looking.

 

I run 15-20 miles a week, not a lot by real runner's standards. But I was having more and more problems with pain in my feet, not so much while running, but all the rest of the time. With the 5 fingers, I have no foot pain at all, and most of my other running aches and pains have gone away as well. This alone made the switch worth it. But beyond that, running is just more fun. I feel more connected to the ground and something about this stokes the joy of running for me.

 

You're supposed to start small and gradually increase your endurance, because your putting stress on a new set of muscles and connectors. I gave myself about 6 weeks to work up to my usual mileage.

 

I suspect that minimalist shoes might not be good for attaining top performance in time/distance. I think I'm running a little bit slower in them. The difference is most noticeably on downhill grades, where regular shoes allow you to clompclomp landing on your heel with abandon. Without that cushioning, you really have to back off on the downhill shoosses. I don't care, because I don't run for performance.

 

 

Here is a good article on this topic:

 

"Barefoot" Running

[stepay]

Phred,

 

I haven't been reading here lately (just too busy with life these days), so I missed your two recent PRs in the 10k and half marathon. Congrats!

 

I've been running a little more than normal recently, so that's good. Ran 3 miles last night...right now, it's a steady diet of 3 milers. Hoping my calf won't blow up on me.

 

Took my two kids (11 year old son and 15 year old daughter) to a 5K last weekend (my daughter's high school track season has ended), and in a field of 500, she won the women's race in 22:36, just off her PR of 22:29, and he won his age group and finished 7th overall in 21:31. The course had a big hill that had to be run twice, accounting for slower overall times, so both kids were very happy with their times. My son hasn't been on a run of any length in over a month, so for him to run 21:31 on a hilly course with basically no training, I thought was outstanding. He IS very fit and active though...he uses the trampoline every single day for a couple hours even, so it's not like he's a couch potato. He'll run cross country for the first time on a team in the fall in 7th grade, and he's looking forward to that. Training for cross country for both of them begins May 28.

 

Love this running thread.

[Phred]

Wow!! great times! 11 years old? Great time!!!

 

I would be thrilled if my kids got into running. I am excited and nervous about this first foray into Marathon territory. I am entering into the unknown... I have no idea what I will be like after 34KM, as I have never run that far before. Looking forward, but scared.

 

[stepay]

Wow!! great times! 11 years old? Great time!!!

 

I would be thrilled if my kids got into running. I am excited and nervous about this first foray into Marathon territory. I am entering into the unknown... I have no idea what I will be like after 34KM, as I have never run that far before. Looking forward, but scared.

 

Yeah, thanks...he's quite the athlete. He IS about to turn 12 in 4 more days though, so perhaps a little less impressive. His stated goal right now is to become the best distance runner in the "history of the world". That's quite a task! When I was 11, I wanted to be the centerfielder for the Cincinnati Reds. I'm eager to see how he will do in cross country. Middle schoolers here run 2 miles, and I think a reasonable goal for him after a summer and fall of training is to get under 11:45 or so. We'll see.

 

I understand your feelings about the marathon. Pretty sure that is common to all of us the first time. It is quite an accomplishment, so look forward to that. If you can do 34km without too much trouble, you can manage the slightly over 42km that is the marathon distance. I'm eager to hear how it all goes.

 

Good luck!

[Dave Ferris]

Wishing you a good first marathon on Sunday Phred. Ease into it, relax, don't push things early on, try to keep enough gas in the tank for mile 20 and beyond. If you feel the least amount of strain before mile 10, back off the pace. The goal on the first one is simply to finish.

 

You probably know this in your head already but sometimes it helps just to re-enforce things. Based on your training I have no doubt you'll finish and finish strong. Good luck with the weather too.

[tucktronix]

OK, this is my first post on this topic. Around 8 years ago I started a 3 day/week workout and diet regimen, lost about 80 lbs in about 4 yrs. I recently(around 6 yrs ago) added a 3 mile run into my workout routine. At that time, I hadn't done any kind of running since my military days. I run the Chase Corporate Challenge 3.5 mi each year(next Thur will be my 5th year), I will not mention any of my times. Never did a marathon, or even a half-marathon, but I'm slowly but surely working towards either of those feats

[Phred]

Good for you tuck, keep it up.

 

So, my first marathon is over, and I did it!!! I started out pacing the 3:35 pace bunny, and was with him until 28 km, and then I started to get tired. I lost a minute our two by 32 km, but was still pacing 3:40... then... the wheels fell off. Over the next ten KM, I lost another 18 mins off my pace. Walking almost as much as I was running. Still 3:58!!! Under 4, which is a good first marathon for me, and now I have a time to beat.

 

On a scarier note, the guy that I train with was running the half marathon on sunday, and collapsed less than a KM from the end (it is NOT the guy who had heart failure 200m from the end that is all over internet google searches). My friend is still in the hospital with low phosphates. We are hoping he gets out tomorrow early. I had no idea that issues like that could happen (he siad completely no warning, he just felt tired and then fell).

 

Crazy.

[Dave Ferris]

Way to go Phred, great job ! Welcome to the club.

 

Whether you run one, ten or a hundred, that first one is very special.

 

Yeah mile 20 or so and beyond. It's a tough time in the Marathon not only physically but mentally. You're totally spent in every way. Even the littlest things like someone cutting in front of you at a water stop or throwing a paper water cup in front of you can be magnified X 100 to the point of distraction and frustration.

 

I remember running in my only NYC Marathon in 1989. I got to Central Park and the last 6 miles. It seemed like an eternity. That area in CP is not exactly flat. It has the slightest elevation gain, yet I recall it feeling like Mt. Everest. I remember thinking...whose idea was it to finish with all these steep hills ?! Out of the 20+ marathons I've finished, the last six at NY were the hardest for me out of any of the others. Heck, I was still a spry 37 at the time ....

 

NYC was only my third marathon and I'm glad I did it for the experience of getting to run through all the boroughs, but wouldn't do it again unless I lived there. Logistically too much of a hassle.

 

Anyway, that's a very good time for your first one. I'm glad you were able to go under 4 hours.. If you choose to continue the marathon thing, you can build off of that. Take some well deserved time off to recover, a good month of no intense running. Again congrats and hope your friend is ok.

[Phred]

Thanks Dave.

 

It is not a matter of 'if' but WHEN I run my next marathon. I will rest as you mentioned. My legs are stiff, but I am aware that I need to give the ticker and lungs a bit of a rest.

 

I am considering this fall in Toronto(about 4hours away), but I am unsure if I can make it due to scheduling obligations.

 

I think I need to concentrate on my endurance a little more, slow down my long runs a little and get more longer runs in. I have been concentrating on the shorter speedier runs, and they got me to 30 km pretty cleanly, I just need to focus on the end of the race.

 

Thanks for your concern about my running buddy. He is back home resting, and the doctor told him that he had intense heat stroke and depleted his electrolytes. He is still going to continue running, and targeting the fall marathon that I mentioned above in the fall. I am sure he is scared, as I would be too.

 

 

[Joe P]

Way to go Phred!

 

Glad to hear your experience was a positive one and that your friend will recover and race again. Training partners can be hard to find!

 

Regards,

Joe

[Emeritus]

I recently began a walk/run program to improve cardiovascular function. Although I weight train routinely I had allowed aerobic activities to decrease in the past couple of years. In pursuing this I found an iPhone app that is useful for me and perhaps for others. It is called 'Runmeter', or, in other incarnations 'Walkmeter' and 'Cyclemeter'. It has the same engine in each, and each can accommodate walking, running, and cycling. It uses GPS and maps. The GPS is extremely accurate--in a two mile stretch it may only vary by 0.01 mile--and this may be occasioned by my own path variation. The app has been reviewed highly, and I think it is neat. Furthermore, it's inexpensive.

 

http://www.abvio.com/runmeter/

[Phred]

I wrote a blog about the run, and my 4 year lead up to the run- my first blog on running. You can check it out if you want:

 

http://peterontherun.blogspot.ca/2012/05/journey-to-my-first-marathon.html

[Dave Ferris]

That's very cool. What you accomplished is definitely something to write about and be proud of. You worked your a** off to finish that race. Even though the numbers are way up for Marathon participants and finishers, the reality of the big picture is the fact that most people would kill to be able to run a Marathon--in under 4 hours no less.

 

It's good to chronicle your motivations for even starting, as well as your feelings and experiences leading up to the big day. You can look back on that 20 years down the road when you're my age and think...man I remember that time of my life, wasn't that great !!

 

I have EVERY run or workout written down since 1989 in the Jerome book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Runners-Day-By-Day-Log/dp/1449404731

It used to be John Jerome. He passed away a few years back and his son, Marty took over the reins and is doing an outstanding job.

 

Most of the time the past few years my log consists of --starting time , AM or PM, running route, miles run, total elapsed time and average pace. I used to write more personnel feelings down in the log like how I felt or the temperature, etc. Now since I'm old and basically every run feels like shit... well at least the first two miles or so till I'm warmed up, I don't write too much else down.

 

I did start (once again ) going back to Cal Tech Pasadena track workouts on Wednesday night. Basically it's good stimulation to be around other runners, even if most them are young enough to be my kid..

 

I'm running by myself on the track until I can get the condtioning back to run with Group C, mostly 30 something women.. But hey a 90 second quarter is a 90 second quarter no matter what the age or gender.

 

It's my third week back and trying to ease into things again. I actually dropped my weekly mileage the last 2 weeks to 25 so I wouldn't risk injury while adding the extra speedwork.

 

Last night I managed 4 X 800 meters (twice around the track) in 3:29, 3:26, 3:22 & 3:21. I finished strong with a 1:35 quarter and then cooled down with a mile jog of barefoot running on the grass football field inside the track.

 

Going to try and push the mileage up close to 40 again this week depending on how the body feels. It's a constant balancing act between trying to hang on to what you have, increase your level of fitness and then not get injured.

[Phred]

Thanks Dave. I have never heard of the Jerome book. Very cool. Good for you on the track work. Good idea to drop the distance when you add the speedwork.

 

I am planning on doing something active today. I might try a bike, or a slow jog. I haven't done anything since sunday and even though I deserve the rest, I am starting to atrophy.

 

Thanks for the support Dave, and keep up your good work as well

[b_3guy]

My routine is I run almost 10 km Mon, Wed, Fri & walk 5 km Tues & Thurs. This week got screwed up because of work scheduling & I missed running on Mon. So I ran on Tues, walked on Wed, ran on Thurs. It's been a lot of years since I tried running two days in a row. The last time almost killed me. It's always been walk, run, walk, run. But today I said screw it & ran, meaning I've run two days in a row. Wasn't all that much harder running the second day in a row. I'm thinking I might start running every day. I'll try running a km of my 5 km walk day.

 

Anybody have experience running every day?