We Bought a Hammond

[Zydecat]

http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/msg/1883724177.html

 

So, our music co-op is buying this C2 w/Leslie, and I'm picking it up later today. We'll be using it for jams and backline at events. I played it a bit to check it out and everything seemed to work. I've owned a Leslie, but never a tonewheel Hammond - any tips on moving it or things to check out during setup?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[zukskywalker]

Congratulations!!!!!

Before moving it I believe you're supposed to lock down the generators. This changes with different models, so check around a bit. You'll find tons of info out there.

Oh yeah, if you don't have the standard dollies you're gonna need at least four strong guys that can deadlift the hammond. Avoid the big pickup trucks unless you're ready to deadlift beyond three feet. A low standing rental trailer might be best.

Stairs are the plague, take them slowly if you mustt.

[mate stubb]

Follow this:

 

http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/MovingAHammond

 

Main points are to lock down the generator (it may already be locked down - most road organs leave them secured) AND rent or borrow a set of roll-r-carries. They make moving the organ tolerable (except for steps).

 

Take 4 strong backed buddies, not drunk.

[mate stubb]

These are the dollys you need. And make sure they come with straps!

 

http://www.251-6320.com/General%20Rental/tools/Piano%20Dolly.jpg

[Zydecat]

Thanks!

 

The four buddies have to strong AND sober?

[Joe Muscara]

Promise to get them drunk *afterward.*

[zukskywalker]

Also get some moving quilts if you can. You will regret any scratches or dings encountered in the move.

[CEB]

Will you move it by trailer?

 

Get a roadcase that has good wheels.

 

PS - You still need the dollies. There will be doors the case will not fit through. ... Plus you will need the dollies to deal with stairs..... Heck there may be doors and corners the organ will not fit through with out turning it on end.

 

These things really are a PIA!.

[CEB]

Congratulations!!!!!

Before moving it I believe you're supposed to lock down the generators. This changes with different models, so check around a bit. You'll find tons of info out there.

Oh yeah, if you don't have the standard dollies you're gonna need at least four strong guys that can deadlift the hammond. Avoid the big pickup trucks unless you're ready to deadlift beyond three feet. A low standing rental trailer might be best.

Stairs are the plague, take them slowly if you mustt.

 

Yes the C2 is a floating generator. Lock it down before you move it. If you use the organ only for live gigging then leave it locked. All it will do is add a little bit of noise. No biggie. For studio work then unlock it.

[Zydecat]

Actually, my only option is the back of a pickup. I'll be moving it about 30 miles, and will be sure to check the generator, use plenty of blankets, and tarp the whole thing.

 

Alternatively, I may consider laying the organ and Leslie down as I have a tonneau cover on the pickup.

 

Other than this move, the organ will be stationary and only be moved occasionally to different stages, etc.

 

Appreciate the advice.

 

 

[zukskywalker]

IMHO, leave them both standing and use ratcheting straps to strap them down(over quilts) so they don't slide around. Tubes have a thing for gravity and if the organ was recently serviced then its probably got oil in it which follows gravity too.

Keep it as simple as possible: up and in, down and in new home quickly.

[mate stubb]

Yes, please don't transport it on its back. Hammond chops with their oil cups removed can be put on their back, but not a full stock console.

 

I would pop the back and remove the tubes also.

[rockinroller]

I CAN'T believe people are still drawn to the original Hammonds, what with all of the technology that has produced clonewheels and synths/samplers that duplicate ANY possible combination of drawbars, effects, Leslie models, etc. that you could EVER want or need, sans the 300-400lbs of dead weight, sensitive tone generators, tubes, and 40-80 year old technology. I could understand the "purist" attraction to the old wooden boxes to some extent but for the performer--who schleps equipment in and out of $100 a night gigs--there's no way I'd ever consider "purity" over "function and form".

 

I've owned two B3s and one old model A (not A100s, etc, a true Model A, built in 1936 and in my estimation, better than a B3 for my purposes), a ton of Leslies, over the years and shook all that weight and "purity" when GeneralMusic came out with their S2 and S3 synths back in the early 90s. For the first time, an authentic replication of the Hammond settings were incorporated into a synth that also provided 800 factory samples and sounds that could be altered at will and then saved for future retrieval. The Leslie effect was always the elusive aspect of modern keyboards however. GeneralMusic again did a great job with their "Rotary" effect on the newer Equinox models that were introduced in the late 90s and continued through 2002 when they were discontinued, due to lagging US sales. I bought three of them when I heard GeneralMusic was stopping production--just so I could guarantee myself sufficient inventory in the future. To this day, I still feel GM constructed the best combination of 1. Hammond settings, 2. Leslie slow-to-fast effect, AND 3. other sounds (1100 in this case) of any currently produced keyboard.

If I were a "purist" at this time--and money was little or no object--I'd probably pick up an XK3c for around $2000 and a Leslie 3300 for around $2400 and essentially replace any remnant of lament that I might have for not having the "real thing".

I guess the only value that the "real thing" would have for me--and maybe for those of you out there that are buying those old Hammonds and Leslies--is that it makes for a more traditional look in your living room or den at home. If I were still a performer who gigged out however, that traditional rig would never leave my house.

[mate stubb]

Hey, whatever floats your boat.

[CEB]

I will do either, but a real Hammond costs extra.

[ArnoldLayne]

I CAN'T believe people are still drawn to the original Hammonds,....

 

READ: "I can't believe everybody hasn't settled on something less than the original like I did..."

 

what with all of the technology that has produced clonewheels and synths/samplers that duplicate ANY possible combination of drawbars, effects, Leslie models, etc. that you could EVER want or need....

 

READ: "all the technology that costs thousands of dollars and still can't come close but I have convinced myself that...blah, blah, blah"

 

sans the 300-400lbs of dead weight, sensitive tone generators, tubes, and 40-80 year old technology.

 

Oxymoron - sensitive tone generators and 40 - 80 year old technology (that still works after 40 - 80 years)

 

I could understand the "purist" attraction to the old wooden boxes to some extent but for the performer--who schleps equipment in and out of $100 a night gigs--there's no way I'd ever consider "purity" over "function and form".

 

no comment

 

I bought three of them when I heard GeneralMusic was stopping production--just so I could guarantee myself sufficient inventory in the future.

 

(Do I need to?...oh, ok...) so 3 of them will carry you 40 - 80 years from now?

[Meisenhower]

GeneralMusic again did a great job with their "Rotary" effect on the newer Equinox models that were introduced in the late 90s and continued through 2002 when they were discontinued, due to lagging US sales. I bought three of them when I heard GeneralMusic was stopping production--just so I could guarantee myself sufficient inventory in the future.

 

I guess the only value that the "real thing" would have for me--and maybe for those of you out there that are buying those old Hammonds and Leslies--is that it makes for a more traditional look in your living room or den at home. If I were still a performer who gigged out however, that traditional rig would never leave my house.

 

 

There's always some guy trying to "off" General Music Equinox's on the Metro Detroit Craigslist or on eBay from Oxford, MI. Perhaps you can increase your inventory with one of those, unless you're the seller.

 

So much for lauding a product known to have a buggy OS and the nonexistent customer support. The product was so successful that poor sales forced them to abandon the market and close shop.

 

Let's see, used market price for a GEM Equinox is around $300 (except for the dude that thinks he can get $650 for his).

 

Klonk Here

 

Used market prices for a Hammond B3 are in a range of $3,500 to $10,000.

 

Thanks, but I'll stick with my Hammonds!!

 

[Clifton]

Wow I knew the thing was insanely heavy, but I never knew about locking the TG/tubes/oil cups etc.

 

The things we do for nice sounds.

[Jim Alfredson]

I think anyone who wants to learn how to really play Hammond should own a true Hammond tonewheel console. Otherwise you're learning on a facsimile; it's like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle on an exercise machine.

 

Hauling one around to gigs with the technology available today is unnecessary, however. I'm sure the OP will learn that once his buddies fail to show up the 12th time he wants to move the thing or the first time he has to move it up multiple flights of stairs.

 

If you are going to move it more than once, you need to invest in some Roll-a-Kari dollies. You can also rent them from almost any rental joint but that will get expensive if you're moving it a lot.

[CEB]

.....

 

Hauling one around to gigs with the technology available today is unnecessary, however. I'm sure the OP will learn that once his buddies fail to show up the 12th time he wants to move the thing or the first time he has to move it up multiple flights of stairs.

....

...

Or... when it is time to play a job but you smashed/broke a finger/ fingers trying to get the organ through a doorway. The sucks too.

[CEB]

Wow I knew the thing was insanely heavy, but I never knew about locking the TG/tubes/oil cups etc.

 

The things we do for nice sounds.

 

I never pull the tubes. It may be a good idea though if you never moved an organ I guess. Spilling oil makes a mess but it isn't a disaster or anything. Unless it is a BP organ.

[rockinroller]

TO: ArnoldLayne: Your retort to my post sounds like a lament and an attempt to rationalize your own choices. Your "points" are pointless (i.e. 40-80 yr technology applied to tone generators that still work--ANYTHING can stay alive for 40 years if you keep it medicated and have a doctor in-waiting. Point?)

 

TO: Meisenhower: I appreciate your sensitivity to my advertising of ONE of my MANY Equinox keyboards. It's nice to recognize a Craigs List junkie on this forum. Shall I get your authorization in advance, next time I decide to advertise?

[Joe Muscara]

I think anyone who wants to learn how to really play Hammond should own a true Hammond tonewheel console.

Serious question, does that apply to the Leslie as well? Obviously the rotary sound is necessary but would a sim do?

[HammondDave]

I'm sure the OP will learn that once his buddies fail to show up the 12th time he wants to move the thing or the first time he has to move it up multiple flights of stairs.

 

That's because people are just too lazy now...

 

In the 70's the entire band helped move my Hammond C3 (which is heavier than a B3), a Leslie 122, an Ampeg V4 Stack, a Wurlie, a Rhodes, a Clavinet, and a Minimoog! No griping! Plus we lugged around a PA!

 

The guitar player only had a Twin Reverb. But he never gripped... People are just too selfish now...

[MoodyBluesKeys]

But Dave - we were YOUNG AND S**PIDER in the 70's. I've worked on hundreds of B3's, had a full size AGO console church organ in my home (in the 70's). Hauled a silvertop 88 Rhodes around.

 

Now, I'm 69 - just love loading in everything at once on a RocknRoller cart that I can pick up one end and put it in the van without help - even though I'm not as strong as I once was.

 

@rocknroller - old sayin - Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice. My Electro 3 is a compromise, but I can load in and out several times a week by myself and still move the next day.

 

I'm not familiar with the Equinox - but if it does what you want and you'e happy with it - make music with it and be blessed.

 

@Joe - I've worked on a lot of Real Leslies - they vary in sound as much as the Hammonds. I even loaded a few in the van and delivered them (instrument service - I sold them to churches). Once owned a small single-speed Baldwin version. I haven't seen the Neo Ventilator myself yet - but if B3er is touring around the world with a Vent - it must be close enough and it is a sight easier to move.

 

 

[Sven Golly]

TO: ArnoldLayne: Your retort to my post sounds like a lament and an attempt to rationalize your own choices. Your "points" are pointless (i.e. 40-80 yr technology applied to tone generators that still work--ANYTHING can stay alive for 40 years if you keep it medicated and have a doctor in-waiting. Point?)

 

TO: Meisenhower: I appreciate your sensitivity to my advertising of ONE of my MANY Equinox keyboards. It's nice to recognize a Craigs List junkie on this forum. Shall I get your authorization in advance, next time I decide to advertise?

 

The emperor has no clothes.

[Jim Alfredson]

Hey Dave, get off my lawn!

 

Next you're going to tell me you wash your clothes using an old washtub down by the river. Or that you only cook your food on an spit over a fire pit.

 

It's not about laziness, it's about using what's available. You honestly believe if there was an alternative to a big Hammond organ that sounded the same but weighed less than 40lbs and could be carried by one guy, that folks in the 70's wouldn't have used it?

 

What was the invention of the Rhodes a response to anyway? It was invented as an alternative to a real piano. Far easier to move, easier to keep in tune, and cheaper. The Hammond itself was created to be an alternative to a pipe organ. WAY easier to move (hehe) and cheaper.

 

To haul around a tonewheel Hammond console, you not only need really good friends / bandmates but dollies, covers, ramps, and a vehicle to carry it in (or a trailer). A big enough vehicle is going to use more gasoline, so that's another added expense.

 

I hauled my B3 around for almost 10 years because there was nothing on the market that could duplicate the sound and give me the control I needed (two manuals, pedals, drawbars)... and this was just a few years ago. Now we're fortunate to live in an age where you can get that sound on a laptop. And if you need the control (ie, drawbars), you can get that, too. Most people don't need two manuals or the pedals. Hell, most don't even use the drawbars the way they should.

 

But anyway... the point is it doesn't make much sense to haul around a tonewheel console these days. Many times I prefer my XK3 and 3300. In fact, I kinda wish I had used them at the festival in Wheeling, WV tonight. The real B3 they supplied as backline was anemic and got into overdriven sludge way too early in it's very limited dynamic range. My XK3 and 3300 smokes that B3, no contest.

[Jim Alfredson]

I think anyone who wants to learn how to really play Hammond should own a true Hammond tonewheel console.

Serious question, does that apply to the Leslie as well? Obviously the rotary sound is necessary but would a sim do?

 

If you're going to own a real console, you might as well get a real Leslie, too. A sim like the Ventilator would do a fine job with the proper amplification, but if you're gonna go for it, then go for it!

[HammondDave]

Hey Dave, get off my lawn!

 

Next you're going to tell me you wash your clothes using an old washtub down by the river. Or that you only cook your food on an spit over a fire pit.

 

LOL... actually I had my tongue firmly planted in my cheek when I posted that.

 

I have three B3's at home and have never gigged with them. I use my own XK3 system... It sure is close enough for me, and it all fits in my car.

 

However, I can imagine the faces on my bandmates if I drove up in a U-Haul and asked them to help me load in my B3 and Leslies.

[Steve Force]

TO: ArnoldLayne: Your retort to my post sounds like a lament and an attempt to rationalize your own choices. Your "points" are pointless (i.e. 40-80 yr technology applied to tone generators that still work--ANYTHING can stay alive for 40 years if you keep it medicated and have a doctor in-waiting. Point?)

 

TO: Meisenhower: I appreciate your sensitivity to my advertising of ONE of my MANY Equinox keyboards. It's nice to recognize a Craigs List junkie on this forum. Shall I get your authorization in advance, next time I decide to advertise?

 

Awww, a bit sensitive aren't we?