Yamaha CP1 first impressions

[David Loving]

Greg, I really like the looks of that DX7!

[perversity]

then why include the Motif XS engine/sample rom? make it a piano then take the rom out and the wheel off - knock a few bucks off the price. A single wheel is really lame, imho.

 

it is what it is - I am still interested if it sounds as good in person as being reported.

Who said it had XS sounds? I'm pretty sure this thing has it's own brand new sound engine that only does piano and ep's. Not really sure why you'd need mod wheels on piano sounds, but as for "why only one wheel..." because it's one more than the V-piano

[MAJUSCULE]

Hmmm... earlier I was considering the Korg SV-1, but I will have to take a closer look at the CP-5

 

+1. List price is 400$ cheaper... It's a heavier and bulkier... Could someone do a shoot-out? Please?

[Aidan]

Hmmm... earlier I was considering the Korg SV-1, but I will have to take a closer look at the CP-5

 

+1. List price is 400$ cheaper... It's a heavier and bulkier... Could someone do a shoot-out? Please?

 

I think that would be comparing apples with oranges. The SV-1 is designed to concentrate on basic and "retro" keys in a standalone, compact package. The "other" sounds are of a quality aimed at just getting you through a rehearsal or maybe the one song in the set you need strings for.

 

The CP-5 has a much wider range of sounds and presumably has fairly extensive MIDI controller features, of which the Korg has basically none.

 

I should add that to my knowledge, Yamaha are not calling the additional sounds on the CP-5 and 50 "Motif", but "AWM", presumably to avoid the S-XS range taking too much of a hit. But it also does mean that the additional sounds may not be comparable with the current Motif XS soundset.

 

And sorry, but I still don't get the one-wheel thing, nor why that apparent failing appears to be getting such an easy pass round here.

[Tusker]

I think the CP series is supposed to expand the CP line, not cannibalize the workstation line. Hence the absent mod wheel, ribbon controller, sampling etc. I hope this kind of technology eventually makes it into the workstation synth format ... with the kind of pristine quality it deserves.

 

Looking forward to trying it out.

 

Nice to see that a pitch wheel is now considered essential in a piano....

 

 

Jerry

[Moon Zero Two]

I stand corrected. I miss read and stated Motif when the brochure says AWM - organs clavs strings.

 

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

Nice to see that a pitch wheel is now considered essential in a piano....

Yeah, really...can't say I touched it more than once in the hour and a half I played the CP1...and that was pretty much just to reassure myself that I wouldn't be touching it again.

 

Re: mod wheel - why? Mod control (when necessary, say for increasing EP trem) is handled through a cc pedal, which seems just fine for the onboard sounds. If it's to use it as a controller for other synths...this ain't that board. It seems pretty clear that the primary target customer for this instrument is all about the piano sounds and playability and is not likely to be concerned with MIDI controller/pitch/mod functions.

 

If I was Yamaha, I'm not sure I'd have even put the pitch wheel on there.

 

dB

[burningbusch]

From Yamaha Europe.

CP1/CP5/CP50 Yamaha Europe

 

"The middle model of the new CP lineup, the CP5, offers a huge and varied sound set of over 300 voices which will appeal to discerning users who require a wide range of voices from a single keyboard. Using some of the CP1s Spectral Component Modeling facilities, the CP5 additionally features many of the sounds from the award-winning Motif XS range of synthesizers. "

 

The reason I'm not bent out of shape with regards to the lack of mod wheel is it is just one of any number of ways of getting CC to a synth. I use breath controller for a lot of functions that others would do using the mod wheel. You could use a continuous controller pedal as well or add controllers via MIDI IN. It is much easier to replace the function of the mod wheel with something else but the pitch bend is more difficult. Some feel Roland's mod level is a very poor implementation because you cannot leave the level at a spot--it's spring loaded and always returns. Why don't the Nord Pianos and SV1 have mod or PB? They have MIDI outs that could drive synths.

 

Do I wish it had a mod wheel? Sure. But it's not a deal breaker at all for me. Neither is aftertouch.

 

Busch.

[drawback]

If I was Yamaha, I'm not sure I'd have even put the pitch wheel on there.

 

dB

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Dave, is there a CP50 at the show? Sounds like my next gigging board!

[Floyd Tatum]

In my opinion, if they were only going to put one wheel on there, what they should have done (and in fact, maybe they did it this way?) is allow the user to configure it as either a mod wheel or a pitch bend. I know that Yamaha mod wheels don't usually have a center detent, but they could work around that - make it work more like the mod part of a roland paddle or something.

 

Seems to me a mod wheel has more uses on an instrument like that than a pitch bend. You could use a mod for bringing in background strings, adding tremolo to rhodes, things like that. But (almost) nobody bends notes on piano or electric piano - that's a synth thing. I know there's a pedal for mod, but sometimes you don't have a pedal, whereas the wheel is always there.

 

[Mogut]

If I was Yamaha, I'm not sure I'd have even put the pitch wheel on there.

 

dB

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Dave, is there a CP50 at the show? Sounds like my next gigging board!

 

CP50 doesnt have the wooden keys I believe... Pay close attention to the comparison chart as posted above

[allan_evett]

So, compared to the V-Piano, it's....?

 

.... thought out, design-wise for the player, much better. And it's overall sound/voices makes me think that Yamaha put more time into development/packaging/presentation. I've spent a couple of hours with a V-piano in a store near my home in CO; it's certainly an impressive instrument. But I did get to put in some time over at Yamaha last night, spending about an hour going back and forth between the CP1 and CP5. My impressions, playing-wise are similar to dB's.

The dynamic subtlety of the pianos was the best I've experienced on a DP. The Rhodes voices were amazing: thought I was back on the road in '79 w/my Mark II and MXR Phase 90; it was simply that good.

 

I was impressed with the initial internet videos; blown away in person. This is one, serious piece o' hardware...

 

[Moon Zero Two]

I agree that wheels don't have a lot of use for piano sounds - although check out the Chick C - John M live CD from last year - Chick does some cool EP bending

 

HOWEVER

 

I would like to use a board like this as the center piece of my humble home studio - so I would like to connect to things like my K2600R - so for me I want a mod wheel.

 

Having just the one wheel makes no sense.

 

but I am looking at bicycles.....

 

 

[Federico78]

So, compared to the V-Piano, it's....?

 

.... thought out, design-wise for the player, much better. And it's overall sound/voices makes me think that Yamaha put more time into development/packaging/presentation. I've spent a couple of hours with a V-piano in a store near my home in CO; it's certainly an impressive instrument. But I did get to put in some time over at Yamaha last night, spending about an hour going back and forth between the CP1 and CP5. My impressions, playing-wise are similar to dB's.

The dynamic subtlety of the pianos was the best I've experienced on a DP. The Rhodes voices were amazing: thought I was back on the road in '79 w/my Mark II and MXR Phase 90; it was simply that good.

 

I was impressed with the initial internet videos; blown away in person. This is one, serious piece o' hardware...

 

Have you found differences concerning action and CFIII sound between CP5 and CP1?

 

[drawback]

If I was Yamaha, I'm not sure I'd have even put the pitch wheel on there.

 

dB

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Dave, is there a CP50 at the show? Sounds like my next gigging board!

 

CP50 doesnt have the wooden keys I believe... Pay close attention to the comparison chart as posted above

 

I have, Greg. The CP50 appears to have most of the new piano sound set without wooden keys and other bells & whistles which give it a heavier weight and much heftier price tag. Graded Hammer action is just fine for gigs IMO. Yamaha's AWG pianos have always been great, so any improvement would be stellar.

[Markyboard]

IMO the CP50 feels like I'm slogging through the mud , at first I thought it was a CP-1 and wondered what I was missing. The CP-50 feels like an oil damped action although I'm not sure it is. I usually prefer a heavier action but man this thing just feels too slow and heavy. The CP1 on the other hand feels great - maybe one of my favorites now. Haven't tried the CP5 but it should be the same. The piano sounds great but I reserve judgement until I can hear it in a quiet environment.

 

BTW no one's complained about the 1 wheel making the keyboard too long to fit in their car...yet

[Floyd Tatum]

There's no doubt this thing was built with the most serious players in mind, and a whole lot of love for the instruments it replicates. I can't wait to hear what you guys think of this thing when you get a chance to play it. I'm spectacularly impressed.

I'm really looking forward to taking one for a spin. Will get back to you afterwards...

 

[_Maximus_]

I think the v-piano got owned

[Mogut]

I think the v-piano got owned

 

Now lets see the price war unfold

[Mogut]

Yo dB, did the CP1 feel like a $5000 digital piano? Or did it feel like the best $3000 digital you ever played?

 

I still cant wrap my head around a $5g dp stage.

[Dana.]

I think the v-piano got owned

 

Now lets see the price war unfold

What price war? The CP1 is $1,000 cheaper than the V-Piano. Case closed.

[Dana.]

Yo dB, did the CP1 feel like a $5000 digital piano? Or did it feel like the best $3000 digital you ever played?

 

I still cant wrap my head around a $5g dp stage.

I still can't wrap my head around why you're still talking about this. Either you've got the money to buy it or you don't. No point in balking.

 

I don't think dB is going to put a price tag on it for you. If it's as spectacular as he says it is (and there's certainly no reason to doubt him), then cost is irrelevant; it then enters the realm of "priceless."

[FunkKeysStuff]

I hadn't heard much about this new line until this thread. Now I'm starting to wonder if I should have held out a little longer before jumping at the SV-1. Guess I'll find out once they hit the streets.

[burningbusch]

The manuals for the CP-1 are now available in English. CP-5 and CP-50 are not yet available in any language.

CP-1 Manuals

 

Of interest:

 

PreAmp & Speaker Sim

If you look at the comparison chart you see that the CP-5 lacks PreAmp for the acoustic pianos and Speaker Simulation for both acoustic and electric pianos. The PreAmp for the acoustic pianos provides either a three or two (peaking) band EQ. From what I can determine, the PreAmp just allows you to adjust EQ prior to anything else in the chain. All the CPs have a Master EQ so you can always adjust the acoustic piano tone, at the very least, at that point. The Speaker Simulation seems to be of little value for the acoustic pianos. It consists of a simple selection of six different EP speaker systems. There are no other controls. I don't know why you would want to run ac. piano through an EP speaker simulation but you can on the CP-1 and not the others.

 

In the comparison chart you will see that the CP-5/CP-50 only have one EQ variation available for the ac. pianos vs. two with the CP-1. This is a non-issue. If you have no control over the EQ parameters it makes no sense to have multiple EQ options.

 

MIDI Controller Functionality

On the CP-1 you have two internal and two external zones. The odd thing is that it appears the zones are locked to specific MIDI channels, i.e. the internal zones are MIDI channels 1 & 2 and the external 3 & 4. In all other aspects it seems to have very decent MIDI controller capabilities.

 

Use of the PB wheel for other functions

Richard (floydtatum) mentioned this earlier. You apparently can do this to a degree. You can assign the PB destination to a modulation control parameter. There is only one control parameter per each modulation effect and it is typically mod speed or depth. You can, apparently, assign the PB wheel to control Wah, for example. This appears to be available for internal use only. I believe to external MIDI device the PB wheel will only send PB data. Other controllers plugged into the switch and continuous pedal jacks can be assigned to a variety of CC# destinations.

 

Rhodes and Wurlitzer Types

The CP-1 and CP-5 have the same number of Rhodes/Wurly variations.

 

71Rd I

The 71Rd I is the earliest-sounding of the CP1s Rd-series electric pianos. With the soft attack and fast decay distinctive of felt hammers, it produces a mellow, hollow tone.

 

73Rd I

The 73Rd I piano replicates an electric piano with rubber-topped hammers, and compared to the 71 Rd I, it has a slightly brighter, more sustained tone. Overall, this Rd-series piano produces a dark, heavy sound.

 

75Rd I

The 75Rd I piano reproduces the bright, sustained sound of an electric piano featuring high-performance versions of tines, pickups, and other sound-generating components.

 

78Rd II

Replicating the effect of plastic hammers and a high-fidelity, integrated-circuit pre-amplifier, the 78Rd II boasts the brightest sound of the Rd series.

 

Dyno

The Dyno piano type significantly boosts the high-frequency range of the 78Rd II to give a sparkling Eighties sound.

 

69Wr In contrast to the Rd piano types provided by the CP1, the 69Wr is characterized by a gentle attack and fast decay. Furthermore, this piano type features a tight dynamic range.

 

77Wr

Rounding off the CP1s vintage electric piano lineup, the 77Wr piano type features a stronger attack and more brilliant overall tone than the 69Wr.

 

I am looking forward to the CP-5/CP-50 manuals to confirm what I'm assuming is going on and figure out the signal chain and full capabilities.

 

Busch.

 

[HammondDave]

Actually they have different keys and action . I played both today and LOVED the CP1! It is by far the finest sounding/playing performance piano I have ever played. They keyboard is wood.

 

On the CP5 the keyboard is plastic (but still good)... The action seems a bit less responsive to me...

[Dave Ferris]

I played the CP1 today...............................and have an opinion.......

[burningbusch]

Has any one heard what the US street price is for the Nord Piano? I'm curious if they plan on pricing it close to the CP-5 ($2600).

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

Actually they have different keys and action . I played both today and LOVED the CP1! It is by far the finest sounding/playing performance piano I have ever played. They keyboard is wood.

 

On the CP5 the keyboard is plastic (but still good)... The action seems a bit less responsive to me...

 

That is not accurate based on all the information at the Yamaha sites. According to them the CP-5 has the NW-STAGE wooden keyboard, same as the CP-1.

 

The CP-50 DOES have the plastic action. Are you sure you weren't playing the CP-50?

 

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/stage_pianos/cp5/#feature-anchor

 

Busch.

[Nicky]

The cp1 and 5 have the same action. The 50 has the action of the s90xs as told to me by a yamaha rep.

Nord guy said $2500 for nord pno

[Aidan]

As I read it, the 1 and 5 definitely have the same action. The 50 can't have the same action as the S90XS, though, as I believe it's graded rather than balanced, as on the latter.