Road Apple Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I bought a Hammond XK1 for the sole purpose of its B3 simulator capabilities plus the easy portability of it. Being very new to the keyboard world, I have discovered that I have vast amounts of knowledge to learn. I know there are probably better simulators out there, but its kinda like owning a Harley if you ride motorcycles, maybe? Would I benefit any by using a Leslie tone cabinet of any kind as opposed to using the onboard simulator for live performance? Yamaha S08, Hammond XK1, 1966 Farfisa Compact(I know its cheesy, but I like it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Would I benefit any by using a Leslie tone cabinet as opposed to using the onboard simulator for live performance ________________________________________________________________ YES, YES, YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahZark Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 As Bluesman says, the answer is most definitely yes. But the same can be said for ANY clonewheel that you would use, not just the XK-1. As has been written here many times before, there is just no substitute for spinning air. That said, as onboard rotary speaker sims go, the one on the XK-1 is very good (IMHO). Noah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Apple Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 How can the tone cabinet be connected to the keyboard? I think the XK1 has a different pin setup than the B3. Is there an adaptor for this situation? Yamaha S08, Hammond XK1, 1966 Farfisa Compact(I know its cheesy, but I like it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 ...and I'm assuming in your motorcycle reference you mistyped Ducati with that other word... .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Apple Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Tim: You could be right on the Ducati! Yamaha S08, Hammond XK1, 1966 Farfisa Compact(I know its cheesy, but I like it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Ha ha nothin but love for my hog riding brothers, but I've always been a drag knee, track day kind of guy. When you get a knee down on a 996, well, brings a whole new meaning to "there's no substitute for moving air"... .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I am using a leslie clone (Elka) with my XK1, and it sounds way better than with the stock leslie sim. I highly recommend getting a real leslie! Custom handmade clocks: www.etsy.com/shop/ClockLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Apple Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Good info, Pale! What do you think about the small Leslie Rotary speaker deal as opposed to the real Mccoy? I'm merely thinking of size and weight for moving (as well as the big price difference). Or should I just make the jump and go for the real thing? Road Yamaha S08, Hammond XK1, 1966 Farfisa Compact(I know its cheesy, but I like it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I do not have a lot of experience in organ world, I have alway been a piano player, xk1 is my first true contact with organs and leslies. Ok, I have played real C3 and M3 on a few occasions, but I am not counting that. This is the first organ I have spent hours on, and did gigs with. I can tell you what my experience is with my current setup. I don't know about your area, but I can find (and I have found) cheap leslie clones here. Around 200-300. I cannot find cheap real leslies. Clones aren't quite the same (different crossover frequencies, different acceleration), but they still spin and toss the sound accross the room. It's something you can't get with simulations. On the other hand, playing live will probably demand some kind of amplification (micing the leslie). I have heard recordings of my leslie clone, and it sounds a bit better than simulation, but not a lot. It's a small difference. I'm talking about sound coming out of PA picked up by mics. Mics flatten the sound, and it' not quite the same as hearing the real leslie in close up. It's a big difference between a sitting next to a leslie, and sitting next to monitor outputing the sim sound though. I prefer the real leslie by far, and I am schlepping my clone because it sounds better to me (and to my whole band). If you need an opinion on small vs real leslies you should ask some of the cats around here, there are some true organ masters here. I'm just an organ kitten here, I'm much more knowledgable in piano/rhodes area Bottom line: if you are plaing a lot - get a leslie. Any kind. Custom handmade clocks: www.etsy.com/shop/ClockLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbg Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 How can the tone cabinet be connected to the keyboard? I think the XK1 has a different pin setup than the B3. Is there an adaptor for this situation? Your XK-1 should have an 11 pin out, which will mate with most of the current Hammond-Suzuki Leslie line - the 2101 and 3300 for sure. Your B-3 would have a 6 pin out and also carries AC voltage to the Leslie from the organ. There are various adapters available, but you can address that issue when you decide on what Leslie you pick. Definitely get a Leslie - friends don't let friends play sims......... Jake 1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, IK B3X, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP "It needs a Hammond" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahZark Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 There's an 8-pin out on the XK-1 (not 11-pin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 nine pin (I don't remember any Hammond product with 8, there were Leslies with six pin, nine pin, and 11 pin). It does look almost exactly like an octal socket, though. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Some people on here swear by the Ventilator. I've never tried it, but it seems worth a look, er, listen. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 The XK-1 and XM-2 as well as the old XM-1 and XE/XH? model organs along with the 3300 and 2101 Leslies have 8 pin sockets and use a proprietary 8 pin cable. The 3300 and 2101 also have 11 pin and 1/4" inputs. All three inputs on the Leslies can be used simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbg Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 The XK-1 and XM-2 as well as the old XM-1 and XE/XH? model organs along with the 3300 and 2101 Leslies have 8 pin sockets and use a proprietary 8 pin cable. The 3300 and 2101 also have 11 pin and 1/4" inputs. All three inputs on the Leslies can be used simultaneously. I stand corrected. Jake 1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, IK B3X, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP "It needs a Hammond" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 THE XK1 ACTUALLY HAS A PRETTY DECENT LESLIE SIM ON BOARD IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LESLIE. REGARDS, ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGman Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 My XK1 doesn't drip oil like a Harley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clpete Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Im no expert but I have and XK-1 and use the on board sim. I would love to have a Leslie and may get one at some point, but for now the pay off is not there. I cant afford one and I pack a lot of gear now. I cant even justify the Ventilator. I believe if I had a 2101 or 3300 sitting behind me, the band and myself would really notice the difference, but the audience may not hear it. I could be wrong. I think it also comes down to some factors: 1. How much are you playing the XK-1 vs another keyboard? 2. How strong are you in the mix? 3. How may solos do play? 4. How big is your car? 5. Can you make your house payment this month? We play for free. We get paid to set up and tear down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I believe if I had a 2101 or 3300 sitting behind me, the band and myself would really notice the difference, but the audience may not hear it. I could be wrong. You are right when you say the band and the player will notice the difference. I certainly feel the difference, and the band encourages me to take the leslie, even if it means more carrying weight (I get helped). They are a great bunch. My band actually gave me 80% of the money for xk1 - everyone really wanted organ in the band since our organ player left for greener pastures (I played piano/rhodes only). I'm digressing. I think it also comes down to some factors: 1. How much are you playing the XK-1 vs another keyboard? 2. How strong are you in the mix? 3. How may solos do play? 4. How big is your car? 5. Can you make your house payment this month? I agree on all points, except the car matter. I am driving Opel Corsa (you probably don't have it in the USA). It's branded Vauxhall in UK. The point is, it's a small car. A bit shorter than 4m in lenght. I easily fit Xk1 in flightcase, yamaha p120,leslie, bag with all the pedals and cables and a heavy duty double tier stand. I still have plenty of spare space to fit another keyboard (if I needed it) and I can take 1 person along on co-drivers seat. IMHO, the only prerequisite for carrying a decent amount of gear is a car with foldable back seats. Having 5 doors instead of 3 is a huge plus, but you can get by even with 3. As for other points - if there are no solos, and organ playing has just a small role in the whole performance I wouldn't bother with a real leslie. The hassle of weight and space problems outweigh the pros of having a real leslie on stage. If one is playing organ heavy music, or just haves the means to buy/carry a real leslie - I certainly think one should go for it Custom handmade clocks: www.etsy.com/shop/ClockLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Check this out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I'd stay with what I have. Use the internal sim. That speakeasy amp is mighty fine. Thing is, one has to get the gear to the gig. In my world that is a huge consideration. I'd love to have a 3300 or that speakeasy, but I could not take it anywhere. My vehicles can't hold it with all the other necessary stuff. No room - and I don't want to have to buy a truck "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Apple Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Boy, did I stir up a hornet's nest! For the time being, taking particular note to the disagreement as to whether the audience would notice the difference, I am drawn to using the sim only. Boy, roadies sure are worth their weight! Yamaha S08, Hammond XK1, 1966 Farfisa Compact(I know its cheesy, but I like it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hey, I would not leave the farfisa at home. Stick with what you got. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogut Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Not to mention, you'll have to mic the leslie. Who wants another mic on stage? Fighting feedback is a pain enough with the vocal and drum mics. Less mics is better -Greg Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 What kind of gigs will you be doing, how large are the venues? If you already have a decent sounding amp, the digital Leslie can sound pretty good. If you will be going to the PA anyway and need a stage amp, consider the Leslie 2121 for the digital Leslie. At some point you might add the 2101MkII and have the 21System for the stage. You can still send the digital Leslie to the PA. When using the 8 pin cable the left 1/4" output has the digital Leslie and the right 1/4" output has a non-digital Leslied signal. Or you could add a 3300 and use the 2121 as a sub-woofer or send the digital Leslie to it two have 2 Leslies on stage and still send the digital Leslie to the PA. Lots of options, all good. With the digial Leslie, you might try the farther and wider mic settings, slow the horn and low rotor to the mid 30's for slow and the 380+/- range for fast, slow the horn ramp up/down times to 2 sec. +/-, speed up the low rotor ramp up/down times to 4.5 sec. +/-. If the amp you use has an EQ with a high freq. (ex. 12kHz, try turning that down some/a lot. That curves the organ's highest frequencies (~6kHz) down in a manner similar to the way the tone control in a B3 works. As always, IMO, YMMV, Yada Yada Yada. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 My XK1 doesn't drip oil like a Harley. It's just marking its spot, that's all. I think the Harley reference is a good one. Old technology that underperforms and is over priced because of the brand recognition. Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Apple Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 "When using the 8 pin cable the left 1/4" output has the digital Leslie and the right 1/4" output has a non-digital Leslied signal." I understood that when I use the 8 pin on the XK1 that the signal from the 1/4" plugs are bypassed. Am I incorrect? I totally agree with less mics, better. Yamaha S08, Hammond XK1, 1966 Farfisa Compact(I know its cheesy, but I like it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 My XK1 doesn't drip oil like a Harley. But does the Xk1 make a "potato, potato" sound? Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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