Open Labs SoundSlate

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

"The 1HU rack unit makes me nervous a bit,- it´s somewhat too promising IMO. I wonder how they handle the cooling ..."

 

One rack space computers are not uncommon in business, used in racks as servers, like this:

http://www.arcomcontrols.com/industrial-enclosure-gemini-ice-pc.htm.

[Al Coda]

Intel® Core2 Duo ® (2.8GHz)

 

http://www.openlabs.com/soundslate-tech.html

 

Oh,- thx for this link !

This site wasn´t up in the afternoon here.

Really good specs for such a small box and I appreciate the new audio interface. Never liked the Delta 10 really.

 

A.C.

[zephonic]

 

The 1HU rack unit makes me nervous a bit,- it´s somewhat too promising IMO. I wonder how they handle the cooling if there are a Core 2 processor, 4GB RAM, harddrives, graphics, audio/midi and a PSU inside. Sounds to me like it´s build very tight inside.

 

A.C.

 

I hear these 1U servers work pretty well.

 

I am actually considering Redmatica's autosampler, to clone and virtualize much of my beloved XP80. Many of its sounds are still second to none. And waiting for Roland to re-issue the JV2080 as a VI is probably an exercise in futility.

 

[J. Dan]

Sorry A.C., I'm too lazy to quote multiple comments (it's been a long day), but I'll address them nonetheless...

 

With respect to "Playing" and the 88-key thing... In my book a "Song" can just be a dump of program and controller changes, not necessarily a sequence per se. I don't care if it's a sequence or something for which I'm playing every part, I'd like to do one thing (like send a PC#) and be ready for the next song - that's how I do it now. So even if only 15-20% of our songs have anything sequenced going on, I still need a way to "set up" 90 songs and I'd like it to be the same whether it's a sequence or just setting up patches and effects (even if it's just setting up the patch for Rhythm Guitar).

 

Regarding User Interface - that has been my big drawback in general of this type of thing: the tradeoff between wanting to have everything accessible in front of me versus simplifying the interface for performance. Ultimately, I want something reliable enough that I don't need to be able to dig into it to use it live. I want to be able to use it like a hardware keyboard. If it ain't there, I aint' using it live!

[Al Coda]

One rack space computers are not uncommon in business, used in racks as servers, like this:

http://www.arcomcontrols.com/industrial-enclosure-gemini-ice-pc.htm.

 

Yes, I know,- but I also know, a company which runs computer gear 24/7 replaces their devices nearly every year.

I´m working for a video company sometimes and they do heavy film editing. They don´t care about reliability, they buy new before computer components fail or run out of warranty.

Not every user of software in musicbiz can afford this, but the manufacturers would like to see they would.

 

Well, I don´t trust computer PSUs too much and the main enemy of electronics is heat.

 

I have several computers, PCs in towers and racked, Mac, even Ataris from the past.

A ideal temperature in a racked PC is approx 30-40°C,- I get that in a 4HU enclosure, 120mm fan in the front, 80mm in the back, the 2 fans of the PSU and a good processor cooler which has it´s dimensions.

I doubt this will be possible in a 1HU rack packed full of stuff.

Have in mind, there´s some temperature outside too and the rack w/ this unit inside, together w/ other units, won´t be in the same location always. So it isn´t comparable to servers in a server room.

 

I hope OL gets it right, it would be great,- but I doubt it will be unless it´s evident it is.

 

A.C.

 

[Al Coda]

Sorry A.C., I want to be able to use it like a hardware keyboard. If it ain't there, I aint' using it live!

 

Hey, that was a joke, no offense. I´m with you in this case and clearly understood your intention.

I watched that live stream in the afternoon and wondered what he did w/ this mapping to many small portions of the internal keyboard, assigning loops and thingys to built a song w/ one finger pushes in the zones. That´s absolutely not the way I want to work w/ a keyboard.

 

I also look for solutions to operate software like hardware, but this not only depends on the hardware unit which runs the software,- it depends on the software itself too.

Even good sounding plugins vary in quality of coding and UI design or optimization of cpu consumption.

MIDI itself is very often 2nd or 3rd row in software, but you can find this in todays hardware instruments too here and there.

There can be computers AFAP, there will be always a plugin or app which grabs nearly all the power.

Same w/ PCI/PCIe hogs in hardware components.

There will be a endless fight for the ressources always.

 

Specialized hardware instruments don´t need very powerful procs which must be able to calculate everything imaginable in a consumer desktop machine.

 

Thas the advantage of hardware, but is larger, more heavy and "limited".

 

But I always found limitations creative.

 

A.C.

[richwhite9]

All said and done the Open Labs sells for $600 less than the comparable Receptor. The Receptor can be run without the remote, I don't know if the slab can. No front panel controls.

 

The Receptor ships with 3 GB RAM, the OL SoundSlate with 2 GB. Both are dual core-the Receptors are 2.53 and the SoundSlates are 2.8.

 

NAMM is around the corner which may mean some changes to the Muse config and/or pricing.

 

The OL SoundSlate runs Windows Installers and Sequencers. That is the Receptor's Achilles heel.

 

For live players with samples the important comparison would be load times and the number of VSTs at loaded at once and the CC/bank/preset processing options. The various Muse caching approaches Snapshots/ZLoad/Multis load fairly quickly given today's sample sizes. The SoundSlate? It may be time for another VST live host review.

[burningbusch]

I don't know anything but what I see in that ad, but it looks like a 1 rack space computer... not a big deal.... plus some proprietary software as Busch describes. Not where I would put my money, because I want to be able to choose the best I/O cards and not be stuck with whatever is supplied on the motherboard. Also, I use three 19 inch monitors to run my studio -without- running keyboard emulation software. I can't imagine trying to handle it all on an 8 inch touch screen. Personal opinion, but touch screens are not a logical or ergonomically sound way to run a DAW, with the possible exception of the REd Leaf piece, which I have not tried: http://vintageking.com/Red-Leaf-Technology-TS-Control-32

 

From what I can tell, the "proprietary software" is really just Riff which is a VSTi hosting program and way to map screen controls to soft synth/effect parameters. You don't have to use it. You can run whatever DAW or whatever you want. Same goes for the audio interface. They talk about using Digidesign interfaces and one of the keyboard versions use the Presonus Firebox. There is a single PCIe slot plus eight USB 2.0. You can use any type of monitor "it has two video outs" and/or standard keyboard and mouse. The touchscreen is optional but makes a lot of sense in certain environments.

 

I suspect the only unique software would be the drivers for the touchscreen, otherwise everything else should be plug and play.

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

The OL SoundSlate runs Windows Installers and Sequencers. That is the Receptor's Achilles heel.

 

For live players with samples the important comparison would be load times and the number of VSTs at loaded at once and the CC/bank/preset processing options. The various Muse caching approaches Snapshots/ZLoad/Multis load fairly quickly given today's sample sizes. The SoundSlate? It may be time for another VST live host review.

 

From my reading of the Riff manual it's a powerful hosting environment. You can share plugins across multiple presets so you only load resource intensive synths, e.g. Ivory, once. I see no equivalent to Zload. How well does Zload work? Whenever I had issues with my Receptor they recommended turning Zload off so ended up not using it. Muse has nothing like Live Controls with the 8" touchscreen. On the other hand OL has no equivalent to Uniwire. Using the Soundslate with an external DAW is more like a hardware synth--unless Rewire offers some advantages.

 

Busch.

[DanL]

Most 1U servers are not sitting in a rack in a club under hot lights, they are in a climate controlled data center, so the cooling issues are not really relevant. Most of them, while 1U high, are usually pretty deep, 18-24" on a lot of the ones I manage.

 

I could totally see configuring this piece at home and then using the little touch screen to navigate live. It seems to have a lot of capability and a lot of flexiblity. Flying in backing tracks where needed, multiple VSTs, call up the entire setup with one click, sounds pretty good to me.

[Tonysounds]

The OL SoundSlate runs Windows Installers and Sequencers. That is the Receptor's Achilles heel.

 

For live players with samples the important comparison would be load times and the number of VSTs at loaded at once and the CC/bank/preset processing options. The various Muse caching approaches Snapshots/ZLoad/Multis load fairly quickly given today's sample sizes. The SoundSlate? It may be time for another VST live host review.

 

From my reading of the Riff manual it's a powerful hosting environment. You can share plugins across multiple presets so you only load resource intensive synths, e.g. Ivory, once. I see no equivalent to Zload. How well does Zload work? Whenever I had issues with my Receptor they recommended turning Zload off so ended up not using it. Muse has nothing like Live Controls with the 8" touchscreen. On the other hand OL has no equivalent to Uniwire. Using the Soundslate with an external DAW is more like a hardware synth--unless Rewire offers some advantages.

 

Busch.

 

ZLoad works great for me. It's like the difference between pedaling my bicycle and and driving my car.

[richwhite9]

. Muse has nothing like Live Controls with the 8" touchscreen. Busch.

 

Not sure if the touchscreen is that valuable. If you had B4 II's drawbars exposed (or some other virtual construct) would you really use the screen rather than map the controls to a hardware controller?

 

It may be a great thing but I can't picture the workflow. (I can but it would require velcro and superglue and a nail and hammer to keep the thing in place if I was to really use it as a live controller).

[GovernorSilver]

As a Nord Modular G2X owner, I've noticed the steady migration of G2 users to the Reaktor platform. There are at least two projects underway to create Reaktor ensembles that have the G2 look and feel. I was using my G2X as an audio processor and experimental noisemaker before my bandmate gradually took it over for processing her voice and playing some patches that she liked.

 

I became interested in the Receptor because we could both use it at the same time for our processing and synthesis needs, with the understanding that Live and other sequencers cannot run on it. The next time we play out, we'd just bring one box instead of yet another 61 key 'board that we have to squeeze into my little car.

 

This newest Open Labs is thus pretty intriguing to me, as it can also run Reaktor or Cycling 74's Max (maybe even Max For Live), and Live too on top of all of that.

[GovernorSilver]

There can be computers AFAP, there will be always a plugin or app which grabs nearly all the power.

Same w/ PCI/PCIe hogs in hardware components.

There will be a endless fight for the ressources always.

 

Specialized hardware instruments don´t need very powerful procs which must be able to calculate everything imaginable in a consumer desktop machine.

 

While the Sound Slate does use a standard Intel CPU, it also has an onboard EMU DSP chip, according to the specs at:

http://www.openlabs.com/soundslate-tech.html

[Tonysounds]

. Muse has nothing like Live Controls with the 8" touchscreen. Busch.

 

Not really necessary as you can map anything to any control surface with a mouse click with the Receptor.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

"If I could hook up my 42" LCD at home... NO display onstage ...., that's fine with me."

 

Yeah, I have a big assed guitar rig at home (though only a fraction of what I had at the studio) and I take out a much smaller rig to gigs.

 

But, all suppositions aside, there is no indication that the one rack space computer is flawed, or that there will be power supply problems. I don't see too many laptops burn out on stage either, except when someone blocks the cooling ports, and they are smaller still.

 

I can hang a Fireface off of one of my laptops, and do much of what is described, except for the keyboard-specific stuff that I don't do or know about, like sample loading/playback. If, as I suspect, I would need a large amount of physical memory for this task, I could still have a laptop built for that purpose, or perhaps upgrade a newer laptop. Upgrading my older laptop memory was easy.

 

I don't see a problem with the product (without testing it, taking their claims at face value), but I do see where someone already in possession of some of the stuff... as laptop, an interface... might be able to cobble together a rig that performed as well for less.

[Martin Hines]

While the Sound Slate does use a standard Intel CPU, it also has an onboard EMU DSP chip, according to the specs at:

http://www.openlabs.com/soundslate-tech.html

This is because the SoundSlate uses the E-MU 1212M PCI Audio interface, consisting of 2 PCI cards:

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=9872&nav=features

 

You can see the two cards on the back photos of the SoundSlate

 

http://images.americas.creative.com/images/emu/zoom/1212MPCI.jpg

 

This is probably also how the SoundSlate gets some of its free software. With the retail E-MU 1212M PCI, one gets Sonar LE, Cubase LE, Ableton Live Lite 4, etc.

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=9872&nav=softwareBundle

 

The Technical Specs of the SoundSlate use the same text as the E-MU 1212M PCI:

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=9872&nav=technicalSpecifications

[GovernorSilver]

While the Sound Slate does use a standard Intel CPU, it also has an onboard EMU DSP chip, according to the specs at:

http://www.openlabs.com/soundslate-tech.html

This is because the SoundSlate uses the E-MU 1212M PCI Audio interface, consisting of 2 PCI cards:

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=9872&nav=features

 

Is this is a good thing or a bad thing?

[burningbusch]

. Muse has nothing like Live Controls with the 8" touchscreen. Busch.

 

Not sure if the touchscreen is that valuable. If you had B4 II's drawbars exposed (or some other virtual construct) would you really use the screen rather than map the controls to a hardware controller?

 

It may be a great thing but I can't picture the workflow. (I can but it would require velcro and superglue and a nail and hammer to keep the thing in place if I was to really use it as a live controller).

 

Yes, as you and tonysounds pointed out you could use a hardware controller and map everything to it. Riff allows you to do this in the similar fashion to Receptor. Problem is, nearly all of these hardware controllers use simple generic controls. Scribble-strips are RARE so you have to do everything in the dark. It's OK if you have it set up to do a few basic things that you can remember easily (cutoff, res, etc.) but if you have a multitude of controls assigned and they vary from song-to-song or preset-to-preset it becomes completely unmanageable. At least that's been my experience.

 

The advantage of the small touch screen is it allows you to completely customize the surface, making the controls as large as you need with clear text labeling as to function. With the OL system these can be saved at the preset level. It's a poor man's JazzMutant.

 

Busch.

 

[burningbusch]

I don't see a problem with the product (without testing it, taking their claims at face value), but I do see where someone already in possession of some of the stuff... as laptop, an interface... might be able to cobble together a rig that performed as well for less.

 

You know I came to that same conclusion. I'm glad this product exists and could see using it at some point, but my MacBook with Ableton Live does everything to host the exact soft synths I need. It runs flawlessly. At best, after spending a lot of money and time learning/customizing, this product would get me to the exact same place.

 

Busch.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Is this is a good thing or a bad thing? (refers to eMu 1212M)

 

I'm using a 1212M in the computer in my bedroom, which is setup as kind of a mini-DAW (the main DAW is in my shop, and has eMu 1820M mixer - I also have a ThinkPad notebook with eMu 1616M, and a couple of the lower price eMu 0404 PCI cards in various other hardware). Works just fine on XP, Vista, and Windows 7. Nice software based mixer, good ASIO performance, and MIDI in and out. I haven't synched it to anything else, but it has that capability. Their current software driver package supports XP, Vista, and Windows 7 (maybe Win 2000 also, don't remember), and they have Mac software available.

 

It is PCI instead of PCIe, one card has to plug in, the other card does not plug into the computer bus, but connects to the first card, so it can sit in a blank slot.

 

Also, Cakewalk just upgraded me to the new 8.5 version of Sonar LE from the old LE that was bundled with the eMu - for $9.99 per copy - can run on multiple computers, one license required for each machine using it at same time. Ableton upgraded me free to version 7.07 lite a while back.

 

[Mark Schmieder]

Must be awhile since I priced out the Muse Receptor, as the first thing I thought when I saw the $2000 price tag was that it was more expensive than an equivalent Receptor setup.

 

My only remaining interest in external hosting is related to the increasing number of Windows-only plug-ins and VI's. But even there, I usually find good enough Mac-supported alternatives.

 

If I was gigging more, it might be different. Maybe when the economy bounces back. Almost every gig this year has evaporated at the last minute (I'm talking money gigs; we rarely bother with bar gigs anymore).

 

Still, I'll keep my eye on this beast, as I like to stay abreast of each and every hosting product, as it is related to my day job.

[Tonysounds]

I have a Rev B Receptor, bought it new and current (when I bought it!), and it was $1800. 200GB Hd and 2Gb Ram. Muse offers Terabyte size HDs as well. It seems competitively priced.

[Al Coda]

 

While the Sound Slate does use a standard Intel CPU, it also has an onboard EMU DSP chip, according to the specs at:

http://www.openlabs.com/soundslate-tech.html

 

Well, that´s definitely a EMU1212 audio/midi interface which cost EUR 144.- in germany,- it has the same DSP on board.

The DSP does nothing more than calculating EMU´s FX algos coming w/ the card as well as the DSP mixer.

This isn´t bad at all, given the fact, these EMU FX appear as VST FX in a VST host being installed on a SoundSlate,- but they would do on any other computer w/ this card inside also,- so it´s not a OL speciality.

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

It seems competitively priced.

 

In the US, yes,- in Europe, no.

Muse Research and OL products are very expensive here,- it´s a better idea to built a quality rackmout machine and choosing the software you already own.

I´d get a hi end Intel i7 quad machine w/ triple channel RAM and more fast 24/7 drives for this price which easily outperforms any Core2Duo machine,- especially if the EMU 1212 will be used as the audio/midi interface (because it´s cheap too). The small touch screen is a abdicable toy for me.

 

A real disadvantage of these specialized machines of Muse and OL is,- they don´t have a service network worldwide.

Who want´s to ship a failing machine to Austin or somewhere else always ?

 

A.C.

 

[GovernorSilver]

Well, that´s definitely a EMU1212 audio/midi interface

 

Martin Hines beat you several pages back.

[Al Coda]

Well, that´s definitely a EMU1212 audio/midi interface

 

Martin Hines beat you several pages back.

 

Yep,- but he didn´t explain what the DSP on the card really does,- in the Soundslate and in every other PC.

 

thx

 

A.C.

[GovernorSilver]

Well, that´s definitely a EMU1212 audio/midi interface

 

Martin Hines beat you several pages back.

 

Yep,- but he didn´t explain what the DSP on the card really does,- in the Soundslate and in every other PC.

 

thx

 

A.C.

 

The explanation is in one of the links he posted. Sorry, man. He beat you to it.