MonksDream Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'm interested in buying a new stand and have a couple of questions about the Z-type and V-type stands: 1) How portable are they when dismantled and what's their folded size? 2) 2nd tier/accessory considerations? 3) Brand recommendations? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have an Ultimate V Stand and have been happy with it. I also have a QuikLok WS550, and have used various X stands over the years. First of all, friends don't let friends use X stands. With that out of the way, the QL WS550 is a very good stand, but adding a second tier requires purchasing a bunch of pieces to put it all together. I gig the V stand on a regular basis instead. The V stand I bought (got it used) had the 2nd tier and music stand attachments already. There's a mic stand you can get as well, but I don't need it. PROS: Heavy duty, sturdy. Design corrals your pedals from creeping away. Folds up quickly and easily into very small gig bag. Very good looking (when was the last time an attractive audience member came up to complement you on your stand?). Not a lot of pieces to get left behind. CONS: Notched indexing means you can't micro-adjustment height (but that's true of other models as well). Not easily adjustable once all your boards are on it. The way the 2nd tier works, you can't get the top board right on top of the bottom (for that true two-manual kind of spacing) Heavier than WS550. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The only issue I have with my V-stand is that the upper tier is fixed in angle and height. Otherwise, I love it. And it looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have the Roland-branded version of the V-stand and I've been very happy with it. I'd echo all of Tim's observations, only adding that the cable management clips enable you to keep things looking very neat as well. I have both the mic and music stand attachments, as well as the second tier. My only criticism of the music stand (which I actually use for my mixer) is that it's a bit flimsy in construction and can't fit in the carrying bag with the rest of the attachments. That said, do get the bag if you buy - it makes the whole thing easy to carry and is well worth the extra outlay. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyMary Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I've got a Hercules Z-stand. Great build quality, will hold a big board. With very high settings, it will probably wobble from side to side a bit. Maybe not. It doesn't allow precise adjustments (only by 2" or so), but I've found a perfect setting for me. THe thing is pretty heavy, and while it folds flat, I would hate to haul it to gigs. However, if I'd gig with a double tier rig, I'd do it with the Z stand, or the column stand. I have the second tier attachement, also very well built, but to bring my boards closest to one another, I'd need to drill a new hole in the bars. Not a big deal for me. Stage: MOX6, V-machine, and Roland AX7 Rolls PM351 for IEMs. Home/recording: Roland FP4, a few guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have the OnStage 2 tier Z stand, like this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ZStd2Tier/ I liked it well enough that I now have two of them, one in the studio, another at church. I also have (on order) a carrying bag that OnStage makes for this stand. Plusses: VERY sturdy, rated for 400 lbs on the lower stand. I have a Kurzweil PC3X and K2661 on it at the studio; and PC2 and K2000VP at church. Enough room under it for a full set of pedals, without being in the way of my feet. It can be set up for either standing or sitting. Minuses: It does not fold up as easily or compactly as my teble top stand that I use for single keyboard gigging (the keyboard slips around on the table-top - cured that by buying some thin felt and glueing it to the top panels). However, I worked on keyboards, organs, amps, etc. for about 30 years; I've seen firsthand what happens to a heavy keyboard when an X stand collapses (not pretty). It is not infinitely adjustable. I've drilled additional holes in mine for seated at same lower keyboard height from floor as an S&S grand. It takes a bit longer to set up or pack up. Right now, I use the stand in the studio for the occasional gig where I want two keyboards. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I dont' know if the Roland Vstand is different from the Ultimate Vstand, but here's a link to some user reviews by some dissatisfied customers: http://tinyurl.com/93ujyq Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyMary Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 MoodyBluesKeys, heh, my board fell off the collapsed X-stand at a gig few months ago. A dent in the plastic corner, reminds of of the horrible experience. Stage: MOX6, V-machine, and Roland AX7 Rolls PM351 for IEMs. Home/recording: Roland FP4, a few guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Sutton Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I tried a V-stand & found it to be very wobbly - maybe I didn't set it up right. I really wanted it to work because I loved the travel size of it. I use the same Z as Moodyblueskeys & also modified mine for seating height - it is great & a good value too. Just wish it was a little easier to move. When I use my van I just leave it set up! Yamaha P22 Upright / Nord Stage 2 SW73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I've got a Hercules Z-stand. Great build quality, will hold a big board. With very high settings, it will probably wobble from side to side a bit. Maybe not. It doesn't allow precise adjustments (only by 2" or so), but I've found a perfect setting for me. THe thing is pretty heavy, and while it folds flat, I would hate to haul it to gigs. However, if I'd gig with a double tier rig, I'd do it with the Z stand, or the column stand. I have the second tier attachement, also very well built, but to bring my boards closest to one another, I'd need to drill a new hole in the bars. Not a big deal for me. I've had a few different styles of stands, but this is the only one I've found that will adjust high enough for standing gigs, and low enough for sit-down gigs. Second tier wasn't necessary as I was using a CP300 with lots of real estate on top for an NE. And this Z-stand folds down into a flat package that I find easier to carry than my WS-550. ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I dont' know if the Roland Vstand is different from the Ultimate Vstand, but here's a link to some user reviews by some dissatisfied customers: http://tinyurl.com/93ujyq Tony, sorry but most of that sounds like bull to me. Maybe I've been lucky but I've had no problems with the height adjustment - and it doesn't use "pins" anyway - and even two-up with a relatively heavy (Motif XS7) keyboard on the top deck it's been very useable. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I've had mine for a year....no problems with it thus far, bit I am amazed how heavy it is! When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcD Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Has anyone ever used a 3-tier stand? How do those hold up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormfront Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Quote "I use the same Z as Moodyblueskeys & also modified mine for seating height - it is great & a good value too. Just wish it was a little easier to move." +1 for the OnStage as a two tier. I had to modify my OnStage to suit me. I drilled a set of lower holes to match my seated height requirements. Then I noticed that, when fully loaded with my PC3 and Roland Vcombo that the center of gravity was now too far forward. I drilled another set of holes in the floor members and now everything is more stable. This thing does not travel well, but it fits in the van ok. Regarding upper tiers - they rarely adjust to what you want due to lack of fixed positions for tilt and height. The only exception is my x-stand BUT it's a royal pain to setup. I spent about 2 hours setting it up and then used model paint to place witness marks on every joint to insure repeatability. YMMV good luck Pete "all generalizations are false" ~Mark Twain Kurzweil K2000, ME-1 and (2)PC3, Casio PX-350 AND PX-360, EV sXa 360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyguy Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'm sorry but most of that sounds like bull to me. Maybe I've been lucky but I've had no problems with the height adjustment - and it doesn't use "pins" anyway - and even two-up with a relatively heavy (Motif XS7) keyboard on the top deck it's been very useable. I have several different stands that I use and I am on my 3rd V-Stand, each replaced free of charge by Ultimate Support(except my return shipping). The spring popped loose from its retainer in each case. (The plastic things that are spring loaded that you pull away from the stand when you raise or lower the tiers.)It must be returned to Ultimate for repair. I do really like the stand, though. Jim Wells Tallahassee, FL www.pureplatinumband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thanks all for the detailed info. I knew you'd be the bunch to ask! This has helped me narrow down the choices considerably. Let's see if I've got this right: Z stands - sturdy, heavy, not fun to lug around, better for studio or someplace you can leave it for awhile V stands - more lug-able though not exactly light, compact when folded, looks cool, get the bag I've had lots of X stands, table stands and A frames over the years. I mainly gig with an RD300GX and add a laptop and a JV-90. From the feedback I'm thinking the V stands are the way to go. Anyone used the Standtastics at all? Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Has anyone ever used a 3-tier stand? How do those hold up? 3 tiers stands? Really? You playing prog? I've used them but prefer a an L-shaped layout for more than two boards. All the 3-tiers I've used have been X stands. Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I dont' know if the Roland Vstand is different from the Ultimate Vstand, but here's a link to some user reviews by some dissatisfied customers: http://tinyurl.com/93ujyq Tony, sorry but most of that sounds like bull to me. Maybe I've been lucky but I've had no problems with the height adjustment - and it doesn't use "pins" anyway - and even two-up with a relatively heavy (Motif XS7) keyboard on the top deck it's been very useable. Well, as I said, I don't know if the Roland is the same as the Ultimate stand. That said, I googled user reviews of the Roland stand, and saw similar rants. Obviously, people who are unhappy are more prone to post about it than those who are happy. Glad it's working for you though. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The spring popped loose from its retainer The same thing happened to my stand too. Within weeks! I use gaffer tape to secure the height adjustment pins, but it is indeed a design flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Jeez. Maybe I've just been lucky with mine, then - truth be told, I don't use the second tier too often, so usually don't have to adjust that part. My only real problem is that sometimes the bottom nuts will appear to have been loosened, but when you come to fold the the base struts into the centre they become jammed solid. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I also used the Ultimate V-stand for a while (about 9 months) before the spring-loaded thingy broke. It pulled all the way out and the springs went flying. I held it in with a rubberband for a while until I lost it altogether, and then I had a couple nights where I had to hold it up by sticking a screwdriver in the hole. I'm using an X-stand now but I don't like it. My other complaint on the V stand is the 2nd tier. It's kind of time consuming to setup/tear down and the extra pieces are bulky and awkward. The bottom part is great in terms of quick setup/teardown and compactness. Also, the adjustment on my mic boom came off and the only way to adjust it after that was with a socket wrench. Finally, and I wouldn't expect you'd need to do this much, but don't plan on being able to move it once it's up with your keys on it - the feet don't lock into place and they'll collaps if you try to move it. I had a gig where we alternated sets with another band and we were supposed to push our stuff off to the side of the stage (still hooked up) each set. Took about 3-4 people to move the keys - one holding each leg of the stand so it didn't collapse, the rest holding the boards. I also was not real happy about the 2nd tier height/angle adjustment. It's a neat stand though - if they could make the height adjustment more rugged and come up with a better 2nd tier, I'd be all over it. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 3-tier stands are for wusses. http://www.jaspers-alu.de/images/6D-120-1i.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 That must be for when Asia plays some of the club stages I've had to deal with. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyguy Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Jeez. Maybe I've just been lucky with mine, then - truth be told, I don't use the second tier too often, so usually don't have to adjust that part. My only real problem is that sometimes the bottom nuts will appear to have been loosened, but when you come to fold the the base struts into the centre they become jammed solid. Hi Aidan. The part that comes loose is the height adjustment for the lower board. I'm not sure I was clear on that. Even if you are using just one board, if the pin breaks, the board will fall. The good thing, at least for me, is that every time it broke I was either setting up or tearing down the stand. No board was on stand to fall. Cheers! Jim Wells Tallahassee, FL www.pureplatinumband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyguy Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 - the feet don't lock into place and they'll collapse if you try to move it. I had a gig where we alternated sets with another band and we were supposed to push our stuff off to the side of the stage (still hooked up) each set. Took about 3-4 people to move the keys - one holding each leg of the stand so it didn't collapse, the rest holding the boards. This is REALLY true. I understand the Roland has locking feet, via a thumbscrew, but not the Ultimate. I called Ultimate Support regarding this because I didn't like the "collapsing feet" either and they told me Roland insisted on having the locking feet but their testing showed the stand was less apt to tip over without them locked(?). If you want the feet to lock, it's easy enough to put a screw down there. The threaded holes are already there. Since I use mine so infrequently, I haven't gotten around to trying it. I'm going to use it for a concert type show on Jan.31, so I might try it then and see if it's any better. I'll post results. Jim Wells Tallahassee, FL www.pureplatinumband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Jim, yes the Roland does have locking feet - in fact, I wasn't aware Ultimate's own version didn't until you told me. But to be honest, this feature doesn't really make moving it any easier once there's a keyboard on it, because the fact that the upper support arms fold back upwards for storage means you have to grab it by the vertical stansions - even then, it's a two person job. As far as stability once set up is concerned, there have been a couple of times when I haven't bothered to tighten the feet's locking screws and I've not noticed any perceptible difference in the inherent stability or rigidity of the stand. When I use my V-stand for one board use I don't raise the arms off their bottom position anyway, as that's at the right height for me, so this probably explains why the adjustment springs have not been an issue for me. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud_9 Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I will say only this, DO NOT BUY A V-STAND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthiola Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 +1 I had no less than three V-stands. The spring loaded locking pins kept breaking off. It's a design fault if you ask me. Too much plastic. The bag that came with it has plastic parts that also kept breaking. The second bag I got ripped open over the entire length. V-stand may look good, but build quality is a joke. I currently use QL641 double X-stand again. Very heavy duty. It's the most stable stand I have and very flexible too. It's also the choice of the pros, I never see anything else at (jazz/rock) concerts. I also have the Z72, nice stand but very heavy and not very compact. I also have the WS550, great for organ or 88 key boards, but not very stable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 WS550 not stable? Never heard that one before. Then again, I've ONLY used mine w/ 88-key weighted action units... Quality X-stands are stable - but I'd hardly call it the exclusive choice of the pros, at least the gigs I go to. And at least for me, the V gets set up / torn down at least weekly and is still ticking. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discotheque Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I agree my WS550 feels really stable to me... although again, only 88-key weighted action on it. Still, looks and feels to me to be one of the more stable stands you could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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