What do you play instead of mi7 (b5)?

[Leberwurst]

When playing Jazz standards, I often stumble over those mi7(b5) or half-diminished chords. I don't like the sound of them most of the times, so what do you play instead or how do you voice the mi7(b5)?

[Floyd Tatum]

I'm not sure how to respond to this. A minor seven b5 is typically the "2" in a minor 2-5-1. And since the standard jazz and pop-jazz reportoire is littered with major and minor 2-5-1's all over the place, a iim7b5 is just part of the language, a big part of the language. If you don't like the sound of it, then, I don't know - pick different tunes that don't contain them?

[Bobadohshe]

I like the modern sound of melodic minor harmony with a natural 2nd degree. That treats the mi7b5 chord as something built off the 6th scale degree of a melodic minor chord.

Translation:

if you're playing a Cm7b5, think Eb melodic Minor. you can use many juicy voicings from that scale. One that I tend to default to is tritone in the L.H. of the root and the b5, triad built off the 7th in the right hand, for the C case, Bb D F. I think I probably got that from Mark Levine.

 

Or play a L.H. voicing of 4th, b5, 7th or root, 4th, b5, 7th or 3rd, 4th, b5, 7th. That 1/2 step between the 4th and the 5th is nice. In the right hand you can play an ocatave or something.

[Leberwurst]

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear 'nuff. I don't like the sound of the standard voicing, say for Bmi7(b5) B-D-F-A, so I'm looking for alternatives to play and voice this chord. I found it's nice to add the b2 or 9 to the chord (e.g. for Bm D-F-A-C#), so I'd appreciate any tips in this direction

[Leberwurst]

if you're playing a Cm7b5, think Eb melodic Minor. you can use many juicy voicings from that scale. One that I tend to default to is tritone in the L.H. of the root and the b5, triad built off the 7th in the right hand, for the C case, Bb D F.

 

that sounds beautiful...thanks!

[linwood]

try

 

lh B A D RH E# G# C#

[Dave Ferris]

if you're playing a Cm7b5, think Eb melodic Minor. you can use many juicy voicings from that scale. One that I tend to default to is tritone in the L.H. of the root and the b5, triad built off the 7th in the right hand, for the C case, Bb D F.

 

that sounds beautiful...thanks!

 

Try voicings and lines off the Db major scale as well.

LH: Gb C

RH: F Bb Eb

 

Off the Melodic Minor..

LH: Gb C

RH: F Bb D F

[kanker.]

Avoid the root

 

I tend to voice these differently in my LH depending on the range. For an Amb5 for instance, I typically voice it G, C, F - that's right, I often drop the b5. I like the open sound it imparts to the b5. Alternately, I may voice it G, C, D, or just G, C, Eb. You could also get into more esoteric voicings like an Ab triad over the A - Eb, Ab, C or a B triad over the A - F#, B, D#. I should note that in all of these voicings, start in the octave below middle C. Even something as simple as D, Eb (generally above middle C) can be effective. Notice though that most of these voicings start from the 7...

 

Now for a Dmb5, for which most of those types of voicings would sound either too muddy below middle C or way too high above, I would voice from either the 3rd of the b5. Examples, again starting below middle C - F, Ab, C, E; F, G, C; Ab, C, D, G; Ab, C, F; G, Ab, C, E, and so on.

[Kayvon]

If I want to try and make a m7b5 chord sound as pleasant as possible i'll tend to just play a minor chord based on the third of the m7b5 if a bassist is taking the root. The first note i'll usually add to colour it is a fourth relative to the root. This doesn't sound too harsh.

[Tobias Åslund]

If I play melody/solo myself I usually use a left hand voicing of f-a-b-e for Bm7b5. I like the sound of it. Once again - that fourth is what makes the difference - a mild, but kinda cool coloring.

[burningbusch]

For just left hand voicing I often use:

 

Em7(b5) -> A7alt

E A Bb D -> G C C# F

 

I like how it's the same voicing just moved moved up a minor third and I like the sound of the seconds especially if it's a moody piece. Alternatively moving the first E up an octave gives you smoother voice leading.

 

 

Busch.

 

[Leberwurst]

Thanks for all the input. Gotta try that out!

[Bobadohshe]

For just left hand voicing I often use:

 

Em7(b5) -> A7alt

E A Bb D -> G C C# F

 

I like how it's the same voicing just moved moved up a minor third and I like the sound of the seconds especially if it's a moody piece. Alternatively moving the first E up an octave gives you smoother voice leading.

 

 

Busch.

 

Quite right! The minor third thing is great. This also works well with the very first voicing I suggested at the beginning of the thread.

 

Mark Levine didn't invent it but that's where I learned it - the Jazz Piano book.

[jsaras]

There's countless ways you can voice this, depending on the context. Perhaps the simplest for a solo context would just be the root and b7 in the left hand. To fill the chord out, put the third of the chord somewhere in the right hand perhaps your thumb. The b5 may or may not occur in the melody.

 

The simplest variant of a rootless left hand voicing is to use just the b3 and b7 (or b7 and b3). You can add the b5 as a color tone.

 

 

[Dave Horne]

I'm not sure how to respond to this. A minor seven b5 is typically the "2" in a minor 2-5-1. And since the standard jazz and pop-jazz reportoire is littered with major and minor 2-5-1's all over the place, a iim7b5 is just part of the language, a big part of the language. If you don't like the sound of it, then, I don't know - pick different tunes that don't contain them?

 

You spoke my thoughts as well.

[linwood]

I thought he was lookin' for subs.

 

LH -7 -3 5 RH 6 9 #11

 

or another idea, look at the melody and reharm it. Like this, maybe. The chord symbols are written above like you'd usually see them. Below are some other chords you can try out and see what you like. endless possibilities, but off the top of my head...the hard part is trying to figure where to go next, I guess

 

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/BB.jpg