Iconoclast

I've never toured but I have done a couple Tribute shows that are typically 2 hours or shorter and the setlist only changes in a couple predictable ways. One of them (Kansas) was particularly demanding for the keyboard players and the incredible number of patches needed for some of the songs. Additionally I played in that band with a keyboard player who used the footswitch/Mainstage method in all his bands and I could see that it was more organized than the way I was doing it. So I switched over to his method and I've never been tempted to go back. Now I use it for every band I play in, whether it's a 90 minute tribute show or a 50 song/4 set bar band. Once you have the songs built it's incredibly easy to build out a set. A lot of it is just drop/drag and/or cut and past as alias (and once you remember those two short-cuts it goes really fast.)

I've found that anything with the Soundtower name on it is honestly not worth the time, and certainly not worth any money. Their OB-6 editor is barely workable but full of bugs. Their VAST/Kurzweil editor is a complete and total waste of time. I won't even try with it anymore. I have no idea how Soundtower stays in business. And then you have things like the Hydrasynth editor which was made by a kind user who donated his time...works great for free. You would think that with the enormous amount of user memory locations in the Kurz products, that a simple decent drop/drag/cut/paste editor would be the equivalent of a song/setlist mode. I'm fortunate enough to have a couple different boards and setups and am able to compare the differences. I do shows on my Kurz because I love some of the sounds and the keyboard action, but my shows that require a lot of patch changes mid song I go with a different board. A true song or setlist mode might seem like a subtle difference, but for many of us, that subtlety IS the difference. You are right, in that "Favorites" are just alias's just like "Setlists" are alias's. But the ability to order and edit entire groups of patches by song title is pretty powerful, and uses almost no memory resources.

OK, I''ll answer my own post. --D-- but wish I could go to E but I seem to lack the tech skills. In Mainstage I build every song as a folder with the individual patches in order inside that folder. I use a footswitch to patch change fwd so this can result in a lot of patches for a single song. I make big use of alias patches and alias channel strips to cut down on memory usage. As I also use a Nord Stage for almost all pianos/organs/eps, some of the patches in Mainstage are only there to command the Nord to a certain patch. My footswitch doesn't actually plug into the Nord, it's a USB midi footswitch, so it will work with any rig that I use Mainstage on. It just plugs into the USB hub or directly into the computer. If I get a different setlist, I can just drop/drag the folders into the order of the new setlist. A lot of the songs actually have the same patches in them. For example, any song that just uses piano probably has the same piano patchs. I'll actually put a couple of different pianos in those patches and that gives me options depending on the room/mix.

Quick Access is simple and does help quite a bit but it's pretty far short of what a song mode can do for you. It's really a favorites bank.

My understanding is the 2700 doesn't have a setlist/song mode? Is that wrong? Were you commanding PC's to the 2700 from an offboard source at any time?

What kind of boards are you using? Any issues sending patch changes to both from MS?

While I loathe much of facebook, some of the groups that I'm on over there are actually pretty useful. It would be worth your time if you have an account to search out "Keyboard Players in Cover Bands" over there. Some of the offboard patch changing sources were: Mainstage, Bandhelper, Gig Performer, Camelot Pro, set list from another hardware keyboard, FourScore, Setlist Maker Pro, OnSong, UnrealBook, Touch OSC, Cantible. I must admit to having no clue what half of those even are.

I took a poll in a facebook group dedicated to Keyboard Players in Cover Bands and I thought I'd repeat it here: SETLISTS AND PATCH CHANGES: Which Category(s) are you In? A. I write down the patch addresses on a setlist using pencil and paper. I also still get the newspaper. B. I utilize the Song/Setlist Mode in my main keyboard. I'm firmly planted in the 21st century! C. I Inc/Dec patches using a footswitch. No hands, like a magician. D. I use an offboard source from iPad or Computer to manage the setlist and command the patch changes. I also do I.T. in my day job. E. I do D above...but configure or command multiple keyboards with a single command. My roadies name is...I forgot, but he's good. F. I'd rather change keyboards than patches so I bring like 7 keyboards to the gig. All joking aside, this subject interests me as I started somewhere in A and I'm now somewhere in D but I'd love to get to E. --Discuss--Please mention the hardware/software that you're using The facebook group results were surprisingly not a lot of people in column A. The vast majority of responses were B or later. Not a lot of guys use footswitches, but a whole lot use offboard computers/iPads to keep setlists and command patch changes. Also...a disproportionate amount of us are IT guys in real life. Weird.

I think I'm more identifying Prog as being associated with the act or album rather than a particular piece of music. I think an album or act that had NO singer on it at all would be difficult to categorize as prog. If you say "this band had one song that was proggy" then you've opened up the definition to include almost anyone. Conversely, no widely accepted "prog artist" has recorded exclusively prog. Benny the Bouncer for example. I guess it's like the definition of porn vs art; I know the difference when I see it.

Speaking as an enormous fan of Steve Morse and the Dreggs, I don't know that you can truly call the Dreggs prog simply because of a lack of a singer. If they had a vocalist whose lyrical themes also met kind of a prog standard then yes, totally prog. But I'd have to put them more in a fusion category with other bands that were in the OP's videos that are more accurately characterized as fusion. Are we splitting hairs here? Probably. An interesting comparison: Here's 2 Steve Morse pieces, 1 w/vocals and 1 instrumental. They're both VERY intense musically but would you call one fusion and one prog? Or are they both Prog? Infinite Fire (Flying Colors) vs The Odyssey (The Dreggs) (As an ironic aside, Flying Colors actually performed The Odyssey during their first tour)

One thing I hate as a keyboard player is having to cover for an unrepresented horny section.

At first I didn't want to like Orcs. It seemed really trendy. But then I realized how easy Orcs were to get along with, and they just get the job done. They sure do seem overpriced though.

I build a Setlist in main stage and I cut and paste aliases from my main patch list into the set list and then I advance or decrement through the Setlist via a foot pedal. If we stick to the Setlist I never need to touch the computer. But if we flex the Setlist I can either search mainstage by song title or just go to my main patch list which only has about 10 patches, and then just foot pedal my way through that very quickly. Rarely I will reach out to the computer and select a patch by hand but that is more the exception than the norm. I made this YouTube for another purpose so it probably has more info than you want. It was to explain to somebody else the very basics of how I ran a main stage rig but it might answer some of the questions for you.

I didn't want to be a Nord guy, and I wouldn't say that I'm their biggest fanboy, but my Nord Stage has slowly become my main board. The Reasons: -The organ is the best in the business and controls like a real organ. -The pianos and electric pianos are really good, certainly more than good enough to gig with. -The Synth section, although limited, will do almost anything you need live. -I can bang out more good, usable live patches in a short period of time than I can with anything else. -It plays well with Mainstage, which fills in anything else that the Nord won't do. -It has a dedicated song or setlist mode and a dedicated patch up/dn pedal. What do I wish it would do? -The effects section is pretty limited. They really need to enhance the effects in almost every way...without ruining how easy it is to program. -The Synth section needs more detailed envelopes, poly portmento, and some kind of vintage slop control that loosens up the envelopes...not just detune the osc's. -A pitch bend wheel would make me happier than the stick. -At 76 key version with the 88's keybed. -Actual drawbars on the 88 version -Smart split points like Mainstage has. Not just the crossfade option it has now. Personally I have no problem with the Stage 88's keybed.

All I can say is +1 to this shows soundtrack.

For Pink Floyd purposes I have been trying to run a Wurli through a wah to get that Money sound for a couple of years now. It's extremely difficult. I've tried some plug ins and the Nord's internal wah pedal and you need to get the range of the pedal just right or you can't get the volume right. Either the screech of the high freq's kills you or the low end just disappears in the mix. If you get the range of the pedal down to just the right part of the spectrum, you can get it to work, but then it doesn't seem like that much of an effect. I've resorted to only using it during the parts of the song that leave enough space for the audience to actually hear it. No surprise that Dave Weiser has nailed it though. BTW, I thought that talk box synth solo was absolutely awesome! Crushed it.

That is exactly what I do. If I'm doing a Mainstage ONLY show with just my SL88 and laptop.

1. If you already have a MAC, you should buy Mainstage. Cheap cheap cheap for what they give you, and I actually love the B3 in Mainstage. It's pretty big and ballsy and has a lot of distortion available just in the pre-amp. $30, so there's really no reason not to. 2. Computer stand/mounting: There's a lot of cheap ways to take care of this without putting your computer on the ground. a. An adjustable firm mounting computer stand on Amazon will not cost you more than $50. (refer to picture) Mine has never been knocked over in a gig. https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Gooseneck-Projector-Detachable-Equipment/dp/B089PZDG2N/ref=sr_1_21?crid=20E9R69KB9AKH&keywords=computer+floor+stand&qid=1668547912&sprefix=computer+floor+stand%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-21 b. I actually like using a shelf when I have the room. That way you have room for your computer and other controllers or I/O boxes. Very simple to make...piece of wood and black paint. I just liberated a shelf from some old funiture. I frequently just put the shelf on another stand. (refer to picture). I really like this stand for that: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0798TYT75/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 3. I see no problem in having the computer open and near you. If your band is flexing playlists or something, you'll need the Mainstage screen to make sure you're on the right program. I do almost all program changes through a footswitch so I'm rarely actually touching the computer, just referencing the screen. Although I have my computer open I'm rarely looking at it and I honestly don't think it does anything except make me look younger. I know a lot of people hate the look of a computer on stage, but I have mine open front and center at basically every gig and not one person, band-mate, or audience member has ever said anything to me about it. 4. I personally would have Mainstage be the brains of the rig and have it command all the changes. I think it has much more functionality in that respect than the Nord. Conversely, I've found Nords (a Stage 3 in my case) behaves very predictably when commanded by Mainstage. As far as controllers...just get a Korg nano-Kontrol. It's super cheap and has more knobs and options than you'll ever need. I actually have about 3-5 USB devices all sending midi and it requires a USB Hub to get all the stuff into my computer BUT I've found that powered USB Hubs are absolutely no problem and have actually made my life much easier. 5. I run all audio from all sources (including the Nord) to a Steinberg UR44 and then run that audio back through Mainstage, then back out of the UR44 to either my amp/monitor or the board. Gives you a ton of flexibility. That way I can use EQ or post-effects from any of my VST's on any of my audio; and quite honestly I use the Mainstage EQ on channel strips a lot, especially on the Nord's Pianos which all have way too much bottom end for a band. I can also use the headphone out of the UR44 for in-ears, and if I get a feed from the board I can even mix it with the band. In case the UR44 breaks I always carry a headphone splitter and stereo DI box so that if the UR44 breaks I can run the Nord audio to the board and run Mainstage audio via the Mac's headphone out.

Along the lines of re-creating a similar and relatively simple sound out of several different analog and virtual analog instruments, I ran into this video which does a similar thing with the Summit, Hydrasynth, Cobalt 8, System 8, Montage and GAIA.

Derek Sherinian also continues to get back at Dream Theater for not realizing how good he actually was. Released only 2 years ago:

Back on the "Does it exist today" part of the thread...You can't get much more prog than this and it's from about 6 years ago. It really reminds me of some of the 60's stuff except that it gets heavier in the middle. But this relatively recent album from Opeth was all about the Prog. (older Opeth is completely different musicians and isn't Prog...so if you search for Opeth you might find some very heavy metal with cookie monster vocals, so ironically as this band matured they became MORE proggy.) You can't speak about modern Prog without mentioning Steven Wilson and the many projects he's been in. Porcupine Tree, Blackfield, Storm Corrosion, and his own solo stuff. Porcupine Tree started out as pretty much a Pink Floyd clone but over the 20+ years they've been around they've morphed into something much IMHO greater. They're very current and just released and album and tour this year.

Well...not a lot. But I think that Operation Mindcrime is one of the coolest concept albums of all time and while there's certainly some keyboards on the album, the band Queensryche has no keyboard player per se. Maybe that's the exception that proves the rule.

Try this: Google up "Progressive Rock Internet Radio" and you'll be surprised how many stations there are. I do this while I'm otherwise wasting time on the computer and have found some interesting groups.

We're only subtracting a few points here! They score hi on the rest of the scale so I think Prog was achieved! Remember, this is as random and capricious as my parenting rules. But you've suddenly got me thinking about the Alan Parsons Project, because while they were certainly very proggy, later in his career he wrote a lot of stuff that was popular with the cheerleaders and Soc's (yes...that's an Outsiders reference. Stay gold Ponyboy). Probably the same thing with Styx and Journey. They were my cool secret until they were popular and their songs were being played at Prom and then I hated them. But I'm not following you at all on the ZZ Top<->Prog thing. I've been recently working up my guitar playing for another project and have had ZZ Top in heavy rotation and other than long solos I'm not awarding any other prog points to their house.

I already rang in on half this subject; Does Prog Exist Today? And my answer is enthusiastically, yes! it absolutely does. The more difficult subject is WHAT IS PROG? Because while I was a huge fan of the easily defined-as-prog bands (Yes, Rush, Kansas, Jethro Tull, Styx etc.) I think a lot of us Prog-holes (progessive rock assholes, my typical tongue-in-cheek euphemism for prog fans encompassing their disdain for everything considered shallow) had a lot of the same records that weren't typical prog offerings. Mahavishnu Orchestra, RTF, Al DiMeola, Steve Morse and/or the Dreggs: we all had these records in heavy rotation, but they weren't labelled prog? So while not a black and white filter, I think there's a pointlist that, once a certain threshold is crossed, Prog has been attained. The actual points and threshold? I don't know but clearly these are some of the salient factors: --If they don't have a keyboard player? subtract points --They embrace the long form or aren't afraid of songs in excess of 5 minutes? Add points. Bonus Points for 7:30+ --They continue a concept or story across more than one song? add points --They aren't afraid of a solo longer than 16 bars? add points --The songs have instrumental sections long enough for the singer to leave the stage and take a dump? add a lot of points. No singer? They're actually a fusion band that just can't write lyrics or find the right guy off Craigslist. --Embrace the use of odd time signatures? add points. Using prime numbers >7? add a lot of points. --Any groove that might get boobs or booty bouncing? Subtract points --They participated in that youtube trend called "Bet you can't play this" add points unless it was just speed metal. But seriously, is their stuff challenging to play or make sound right? Add points. --You feel challenged as the listener? Add points I think that Prog has influenced a lot of bands that might not truly be "Prog". For example, I thing certain songs or concepts by bands as diverse as Green Day, Metric, AFI and Queensryche are definitely progressive even though I wouldn't consider those bands as prog.