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#2843210 - 03/20/17 04:45 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: The Real MC]
davedoerfler Online   content
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
I won't give any of my money to a chronic plagiarist who sells landfill fodder. I don't buy into the argument that Behringer has turned around because I have been lied to too many times.


There is merit in this statement.
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#2843242 - 03/20/17 07:05 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: The Real MC]
Buzzzzzzz Offline
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Posts: 722
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
I won't give any of my money to a chronic plagiarist who sells landfill fodder. I don't buy into the argument that Behringer has turned around because I have been lied to too many times.

That's your right as a consumer. But if you won't buy any Behringer products that are more recent or believe people who have then you don't have any factual basis for believing Behringer's reliability is as shoddy today as it once was. I think everyone knows your position on the matter - no need to belabor it.

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#2843246 - 03/20/17 07:11 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: Buzzzzzzz]
aronnelson Offline
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Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 618
> Taking a man's life's work and selling a knockoff on the cheap while he is still alive selling his own products is just yucky

Yeah, I understand. I feel the same way about the Klon Centaur. Yet, he is still in business and the $50 EH clone is not putting him out of business (yet).

But to be fair, Tom is not making the OB-X (at least I don't think so).
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#2843292 - 03/20/17 09:54 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: Buzzzzzzz]
The Real MC Offline
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Originally Posted By: Buzzzzzzz
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
I won't give any of my money to a chronic plagiarist who sells landfill fodder. I don't buy into the argument that Behringer has turned around because I have been lied to too many times.

That's your right as a consumer. But if you won't buy any Behringer products that are more recent or believe people who have then you don't have any factual basis for believing Behringer's reliability is as shoddy today as it once was. I think everyone knows your position on the matter - no need to belabor it.


I have had too many personal failures with behringer products and known too many friends in the retail and performing business with the same. I have yet to meet a happy behringer customer in person, and I have been on the internet long enough to know that online reviews are hardly bastions of integrity. It is not my opinion alone as you would like to reduce it to.

The DM12 issue with a gate to tame VCA noise is a Great Big Red Flag that Behringer seems incapable of fixing an electronic challenge that has been solved since the 1970s, and all they know is how to fix the symptoms instead of curing the problem. I studied the schematic for their Minimoog clone and not only did they clone the schematics, but they also cloned the design errors that make them go out of tune.

Bearing these recent revelations provided by Uli himself, I am not so easily convinced that Behringer reliability has turned around. I have 30+ years engineering experience in military and commercial electronics as well as maintaining and improving analog synths from Minimoogs to Memorymoogs to Oberheims, all of which I modified to perform more reliably witness other members here and elsewhere to whom I have shared such knowledge. So the next time anyone wants to lecture me about lack of factual basis in an attempt to silence dissenters, you better be able to fit a man's shoes because I do not submit to shaming tactics.

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#2843295 - 03/20/17 10:09 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: The Real MC]
aronnelson Offline
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Registered: 09/04/14
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I heard they are making Curtis chips. If so, and they make it available we might be thanking them in the near future.
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#2843302 - 03/20/17 10:27 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: The Real MC]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Posts: 4022
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
blah blah blah


You seem angry that there are some of us who are having great success with the newer Behringer stuff. So on that front WHO THE f*** ARE YOU to question my integrity?

I call out good experiences when I have them and I call out bad experience as well. Right here. On this forum. I've given Behrinher a crappy review here. But once I give a good review, where I acknowledge past issues, you get spun up.

/addtotwitfilter

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#2843307 - 03/20/17 10:58 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: EscapeRocks]
Bill H. Offline
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Registered: 05/24/04
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If Behringer "has its sights set" on the OBXa, I doubt those sights are conjuring up a clone of the behemoth that we all know and love. It's much more likely to be another Eurorack module.

If it's done at all.

I have a couple of recent Behringer products - a cheap mixer that I use for karaoke and an iNuke power amp. Both have worked reliably for years. The power amp is rather amazing actually.

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#2843311 - 03/20/17 11:22 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: The Real MC]
elsongs Offline
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Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 215
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Is this going to be another lame-o tabletop, or is this going to be a SYNTH synth?

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#2843313 - 03/20/17 11:30 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: elsongs]
timwat Offline
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In the somewhat-related to this topic areas of business management and strategy, I teach my students that you simply do not create value ex nihilo. Not unless you are truly changing the value chain (what is too-often slapped with the label "disruptive innovation").

I'm not a believer that the DM12 competes with my OB6. But that's not because of any personal track record I have with Behringer (never owned a Behringer product). It's because I still believe there's a reason the OB6 has that price tag. Same reason my Kronos had its, and my Nord Wave, and my CP4. Those are the boards I gig the most, and I don't consider any of them as bargains. But the value is there...I just had to pay for it.

Just my 0.02.
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#2843328 - 03/21/17 01:49 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: timwat]
John Tweed Offline
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Registered: 07/04/11
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Back in the day I used one of these a lot - didn't own it, but spent enough time to become attached. The Sonic Projects OP-X that could run in the V-Machine never impressed me, but I could forgive Behringer their past sins (already have - my K3000FX amp soldiers on, but I don't gig with it ever as it's too big and heavy) if this was cheap enough. It's a rare gig these days that I would actually use something like this but it'd be fun to play with at home.
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#2843338 - 03/21/17 04:29 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: The Real MC]
Buzzzzzzz Offline
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Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 722
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
So the next time anyone wants to lecture me about lack of factual basis in an attempt to silence dissenters, you better be able to fit a man's shoes because I do not submit to shaming tactics.

I have over 30 years engineering experience in commercial electronics as well. But hey, if you want to compare shoe sizes, I guess you win. You certainly know how to swing it. But just to be clear, I didn't try to shame you. I don't have to because by the attitude and lack of manners revealed by your words, you do that to yourself.

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#2843339 - 03/21/17 04:30 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: SteeVtheRipper]
joegerardi Offline
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Originally Posted By: SteeVtheRipper
I think it's really slimy of Behringer to reproduce an Oberheim synth while Tom Oberheim is still alive and well and making Oberheim synths.


So, I'm guessing you don't, and wouldn't ever use any ROMplers, because well, you know- they sample LOTS of instrument from people that are alive and well and making synths...

..Joe
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#2843340 - 03/21/17 04:34 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: SteeVtheRipper]
JB Sherry Offline
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Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 130
Loc: Saugerties, NY
Originally Posted By: SteeVtheRipper
I know. I get it. But it just feels different when it's something as legendary as an Iberheim synth. A pedal or an amp doesn't seem quite as bad.


Remember when Ibanez copied everything in the 70's? My guitarist had an Ibanez Les Paul copy, Ibanez pedals. But when they came out with the Iberheim XA...couldn't believe it! freak

Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Originally Posted By: aronnelson
I used to have an OB-X but what are we going to do with these replicas?


Play Jump?


Might as well.


How happy this made me.

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#2843342 - 03/21/17 05:04 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: Buzzzzzzz]
The Real MC Offline
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Originally Posted By: Buzzzzzzz
I don't have to because by the attitude and lack of manners revealed by your words, you do that to yourself.


You're not going to win any arguments with manipulative tactics either. And you just pulled one with the "it's all my fault and you're never to blame." And instead of addressing my assessment of Behringer's engineering skills, you resort to another manipulative one with the ad hominem tactic. If you truly are an engineer on my level, then you would had provided conclusive evidence that Behringer has indeed turned around. So far, all I have seen are ad hominem tactics so I'm not the one with issues with manners.

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#2843347 - 03/21/17 05:40 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: The Real MC]
Markay Offline
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Registered: 01/28/12
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The internecine war of opinions seems to flare more often than not in most Behringer threads here.

FWIW my experience, n=1, with Behringer mixers and DI's has been overwhelming positive over the past five years. I also owned a Behringer K3000FX which to my ears, and based on other opinions of the Roland KC range, sounded about as good.

But someone bought it in perfect working condition within 5 days of putting thé ad up.

My take on Behringer is that they have for the first time made entry level gear available to the millions of young muscicians who are not members of this forum, and PA's to thousands of low rent venues that would not exist if they had to pay what the established players charge.

More power to them, when has à low cost alternative been something that should be run out of town?



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#2843351 - 03/21/17 05:47 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: Markay]
Markyboard Offline
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In summary...Led Zeppelin is the indisputable best touring band of all times.

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#2843353 - 03/21/17 06:00 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: Markyboard]
Markay Offline
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I dunno, Rolling Stones, and I know everyone will agree, except Malcolm Young, who set out to show em up as having sloppy timing.
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#2843361 - 03/21/17 06:34 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: Markay]
vonnor Offline
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You guys are raping my thread. You know that, right? facepalm
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#2843367 - 03/21/17 06:50 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: vonnor]
davedoerfler Online   content
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Time for your morning beer, Bill. You'll feel better after that. cheers
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#2843380 - 03/21/17 07:20 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: davedoerfler]
vonnor Offline
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Super-size Dunkin' coffee, baby! I feel better already! PianoBanana rockit roll thu
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#2843385 - 03/21/17 07:32 AM Re: Behringer OB-Xa [Re: vonnor]
Synthoid Offline
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Tom prefers beer with donuts... but I digress. wave
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#2843423 - 03/21/17 09:38 AM Re: Behringer OB-Xa [Re: Synthoid]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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If Tom Oberheim working in conjuction with Dave Smith can't nail the sound, what makes anyone think Uli Behringer is going to do it?

The OB6 is a great instrument but it does NOT sound as rich and big as a vintage OB-Xa. I sincerely doubt something from Behringer will either.
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#2843427 - 03/21/17 10:12 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: joegerardi]
SteeVtheRipper Offline
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That's not the same to me. A recording is not the same as copying the circuit design and functionality of a machine. A recording is a snapshot of sound spread across a keyboard that then uses computers to simulate the real thing. And a recording is never as good as the real thing. If they copied an OBXA they'd be copying the work Tom put in to design those circuits, test them all, do all the R&D, manufacture. You know what I mean? It's not the same as just taking a sample. You sit at an Oberheim and you play, you turn knobs which affect the sound in a way that was designed by a person. There's an intended interaction between the parts. An intended experience. I understand it's been done plenty of times but that doesn't make it any less lame. Do I think it's great that Vintage Vibe is making electric pianos again, yes. Do I think it's lame that they're making someone else's pianos, yes. Wouldn't it have been awesome if they designed their own rather than piggy backing on Harold Rhodes' success? Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should and just because the people want it doesn't mean they should have it. We can't always get what we want. Boo hoo I want an Arp 2600 but they're rare and super expensive. I want I want I want! Well too bad, they're rare and expensive for a reason and that makes them special. If you really want it save up and buy it. I just don't understand why everything needs to have a cheap affordable alternative. Part of what makes an arp2600 so special is that it is so rare, does sound that good, it's an elusive beast. If we all could suddenly have for for $200 wouldn't that cheapen it? Sometimes owning something is a privilege not a right.

I dunno if that all makes sense. I feel a lot of ways about it.


Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Originally Posted By: SteeVtheRipper
I think it's really slimy of Behringer to reproduce an Oberheim synth while Tom Oberheim is still alive and well and making Oberheim synths.


So, I'm guessing you don't, and wouldn't ever use any ROMplers, because well, you know- they sample LOTS of instrument from people that are alive and well and making synths...

..Joe
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#2843430 - 03/21/17 10:28 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: The Real MC]
Buzzzzzzz Offline
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Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 722
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: Buzzzzzzz
I don't have to because by the attitude and lack of manners revealed by your words, you do that to yourself.


You're not going to win any arguments with manipulative tactics either. And you just pulled one with the "it's all my fault and you're never to blame." And instead of addressing my assessment of Behringer's engineering skills, you resort to another manipulative one with the ad hominem tactic. If you truly are an engineer on my level, then you would had provided conclusive evidence that Behringer has indeed turned around. So far, all I have seen are ad hominem tactics so I'm not the one with issues with manners.

Ad hominem is not applicable. I didn't really attack you or display bad manners, unless you think saying you were shaming yourself after touting your credentials to back up a claim is an attack and bad manners (and that after some provocation). Someone said you seemed angry and swore at you for questioning their integrity. I didn't see you reply to him. I guess I'm an easier target.

I would say that since YOU made the original assertion in the thread (Behringer products are still sh*t) that the burden of presenting real evidence is on you. But in the long run I doubt you would change your mind even if the data didn't back you up, whoever presented it.

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#2843434 - 03/21/17 10:37 AM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: Buzzzzzzz]
aronnelson Offline
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Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 618
> what makes anyone think Uli Behringer is going to do it?

Because they are recreating the Curtis chip. No matter what, people will probably say it doesn't sound exactly the same, but it has a chance based on what they are doing. The first start is to get those Curtis chips made again - that's good for everyone if they make it available again. Many old keyboards can be fixed as well.

and....
>I just don't understand why everything needs to have a cheap affordable alternative.

It's always been like this EH made a living off of this. Now pedals made in China do this. Kids need affordable stuff - the patents ended long ago - this is how it works. It's not like football jersey numbers where you stop using forever.


Edited by aronnelson (03/21/17 10:39 AM)
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#2843459 - 03/21/17 12:15 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: vonnor]
MAJUSCULE Offline
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Registered: 06/10/09
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Loc: Edmonton, Alberta
Originally Posted By: vonnor
You guys are raping derailing/ruining/laying waste to my thread. You know that, right? facepalm


Please reconsider how you use the word "rape". I know you probably didn't mean any harm.
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#2843481 - 03/21/17 01:49 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: MAJUSCULE]
allan_evett Offline
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If you ask me about 'the one that got away', I'll tell you about the OB-Xa I picked up in 1983, then sold in 1989 - for $700 cry. Probably my favorite analog polysynth of all time.

So if the UB clone is in the ballpark, and has some of the roaring depth of the OB-Xa, I'll be tempted to jump.
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#2843484 - 03/21/17 02:11 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: allan_evett]
Markyboard Offline
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Posts: 4444
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Originally Posted By: allan_evett

So if the UB clone is in the ballpark, and has some of the roaring depth of the OB-Xa, I'll be tempted to jump.


Go ahead.

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#2843489 - 03/21/17 02:24 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: aronnelson]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5565
Loc: Lansing, MI
Originally Posted By: aronnelson
> what makes anyone think Uli Behringer is going to do it?

Because they are recreating the Curtis chip.


Curtis chips are already being made by OnChip, which is what Curtis now is. They recently re-issued the 3340.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2249931

Also, this is from Doug Curtis' widow on FB:

"Many of you who are active on synth forums have recently contacted us regarding another company’s claim of producing VCO chips that are the equivalent to the CEM3340 that was used in many legendary synthesizers.

To avoid any confusion, please know that there is only one manufacturer of the authentic CEM3340 designed by my late husband, Doug Curtis. Any claims, use of this product designation, and use of the name Curtis Electromusic by other companies are made without permission from OnChip Systems (our current company name) or the Curtis Family.

As much as Doug would be humbled and so very happy about the legacy his products enjoy, we can assure you that as a person of the highest integrity he would be deeply saddened by the attempt of others to trade on his name and to make unsubstantiated claims of equivalency to his original inventions.

In his loving memory and gratitude for the community of musicians and synthesizer enthusiasts, Doug’s family is committed to making his authentic designs available as demand presents itself. Thank you for your continued support of Doug’s analog synthesizer legacy.

Mary Curtis and our daughters, Ashley and Julia"
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#2843496 - 03/21/17 02:48 PM Re: Behringer OB-XA [Re: Jim Alfredson]
timwat Offline
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Thank you for that, Jim.

It appears that some things don't change.
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