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#2444852 - 10/11/12 05:44 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: non c'e futuro]
Randy Skolnik Offline
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I learned Bach's "Prelude and Fugue in C major" on the organ, when I was a teenager (many moons ago). It sound good on the piano as well (without the bass line). Bach has influenced my compositions over the years. Sometimes when I perform a Bach tune, I can feel "his spirit" taking over my hands. I'm sure it's just my imagination, but that is what great music can do to you!
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#2444854 - 10/11/12 05:58 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: David Loving]
marino Offline
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Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 7843
Loc: Rome, Italy
Originally Posted By: daviel
Here's some Bach for you--

Marino's "Bach to the Future"

Thanks a lot Daviel. smile
Only thing, you linked to one of the only two pieces on the album that aren't Bach pieces! I have had the impudence of including two pieces of mine in that work, written "in style" and humbly dedicated to the Master.

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#2444864 - 10/11/12 08:34 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: marino]
David Loving Offline
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Registered: 12/11/00
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My mistake! I thought 99 cents was too cheap.

The Complete Album

A regular on my iPod rotation


Edited by daviel (10/11/12 08:34 PM)
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#2454797 - 12/07/12 08:08 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: David Loving]
CEB Offline
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Adding this here for future reference.

Too rushed but would make a killer octave study. I may try this if my wrists will take it. Age ( or bad technique) is catching up with me lately.

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#2454833 - 12/07/12 09:14 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
RABid Offline
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I prefer keys where the root is a natural and the 3 is sharp or flat. Those fit my hand as middle fingers stick out further than my thumb. I don't like keys where 1 and 5 are black and 3 is white.

I wish I had appreciated Bach more when I was taking lessons in school. There is a lot to learn with the fingering and the use of accidentals.
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#2455013 - 12/08/12 02:05 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: RABid]
yannis D Offline
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Thanx CEB, Gavrilov is a monster pianist. I still remember an old vinyl of him playing Prokofiev's 1st piano concerto.., .Angela Hewitt is a fantastic player as well. I would add Tatjana Nikolayevna, the teacher of many great Russian pianists and a fantastic interpreter of Bach's music herself.


Edited by yannis D (12/08/12 02:12 AM)
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#2455078 - 12/08/12 09:43 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: yannis D]
SteveCoscia Offline
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 559
Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
Years ago, I memorized the 3rd Movement of Bach's Italian Concerto. A terrific composition with a bright melody and it was also a great left hand workout. Learning Bach's Italian Concerto had a positive influence on my playing.

When there a lull on stage or the crew needed a few minutes, I'd play it using the ARP 4 Voice Piano's harpsichord tone. Fun times. This thread has inspired me to find the sheet music.
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#2455154 - 12/08/12 03:34 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: SteveCoscia]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Originally Posted By: SteveCoscia
Years ago, I memorized the 3rd Movement of Bach's Italian Concerto. A terrific composition with a bright melody and it was also a great left hand workout. Learning Bach's Italian Concerto had a positive influence on my playing.

When there a lull on stage or the crew needed a few minutes, I'd play it using the ARP 4 Voice Piano's harpsichord tone. Fun times. This thread has inspired me to find the sheet music.


Try the Henle-Verlag edition on the Italian Concerto.

Oh yeah +100. The IC was the first major classical piece I attempted to learn in my early 20s. Yes the 3rd movement is joyous without question. I find the Andante section equally has beautiful.

My favorite recording of this piece is Alfred Brendel


Also no Bach keyboard thread cannot be complete without mentioning Rosalyn Tureck, which Jazz + did earlier in the thread.
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#2455159 - 12/08/12 04:20 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: Dave Ferris]
SteveCoscia Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
My favorite recording of this piece is Alfred Brendel.


Indeed. The Brendel rendition is real good. Bach's melody is so lively and inviting. It grabs the listener.
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#2455172 - 12/08/12 06:38 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: SteveCoscia]
CEB Offline
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I love Brendel. It was Brendel that really turned me on to Haydn.
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#2455594 - 12/10/12 06:44 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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She makes some interesting points. I hate to tell her that not only does Chopin sound like doggy doo on the Polymoog but I thought Bach did too.

I still can't bring myself to compare Bach to Arnold Schoenberg. I don't like Schoenberg.



Edited by CEB (12/10/12 06:45 PM)
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#2456097 - 12/12/12 12:23 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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I'm continuing to work through The Well Tempered Clavier and I have some thoughts and questions.

1) I got an opportunity to have hands on an actual Harpsichord. Dang you have to be accurate and very articulate on those things. Piano is a lot more forgiving otherwise it is a smeared up jingly mess. I've play Harpsichord patches on Keyboards. The two experiences have nothing in common. I expect the harpsichord to be an easier axe to play on. It wasn't for for me. I was out of my environment.

2) My copy of WTC is marked for dynamics. This was done by Carl Czerny. The Harsichord doesn't do dynamics like a piano. Is what Czerny did considered proper piano treatment? On the Preludes I tend to want to do dramatic shifts in dynamics. I guess I am a Romantic at Heart.


Edited by CEB (12/12/12 12:26 PM)
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#2456107 - 12/12/12 01:18 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
Bobadohshe Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB
2) My copy of WTC is marked for dynamics. This was done by Carl Czerny. The Harsichord doesn't do dynamics like a piano. Is what Czerny did considered proper piano treatment?


Not really. Edit: well I am no academically qualified to truly question Czerny, but you could maybe play these dynamics very subtly and it would sound fine.

Quote:
On the Preludes I tend to want to do dramatic shifts in dynamics. I guess I am a Romantic at Heart.


You can do whatever makes you happy. Seriously. But know that it wasn't the composer's intent, nor at all the style of the time.

Dynamics in Baroque literature definitely have a place. Subtle shading and highlighting of certain melodies and phrases can give the music further dimension. But bluntly wielding FFs and PPs to maudlin excess can ruin the integrity of the music.


Edited by Bobadohshe (12/12/12 01:19 PM)
Edit Reason: further thoughts about Czerny.
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#2456114 - 12/12/12 01:26 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
Bridog6996 Offline
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Dynamics in Baroque music are always subject to debate, but much of Bach's music was actually written for clavichord, rather than harpsichord. It's similar in sound to harpsichord, but is able to produce a range of dynamics. Bach almost certainly played these pieces with dynamics himself, but leaving it up to the performer was a common practice at the time, as details like dynamics were considered more of an afterthought. So, dynamics weren't often indicated, but that doesn't mean dynamics were or should be absent. I feel like most Bach pieces sort of "play themselves" in terms of dynamics though.

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#2456117 - 12/12/12 01:41 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/05/07
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I don't know about Czerny but I've always used the Henle-Verlag editions for all my Bach stuff--Italian Concerto, WTC 1&2 , Inventions, English & French Suites.

No dynamic markings in the Henle. I've listened to recordings of the pieces I do by varying pianists (sorry can't hang with the harpsichord) just for reference sake.

I don't alway agree with some of the fingering choices in the Henle but from a reading/learning standpoint, I prefer it over anything else.

A definite shout out though for the Alfred Masterwork editions of the WTC. BK.1 is edited by Willard Palmer. BK.2 edited by Judith Schneider and fingerings by Maria Sofianski.

In the intro of BK.1 they go into literally a 25 page essay ranging from dynamics , rhythm, Fugue structure, sustain pedal usage, arpeggiating chords in the Baroque style, tempo and very detailed analysis of the ornaments. Best I've ever seen. I like a lot of the fingering choices too. The Alfred is like a reference workbook (highly recommended)--definitely goes hand in hand with the Henle although I still prefer the latter from a graphic/reading standpoint.
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#2456127 - 12/12/12 02:27 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: Cygnus64]
stillplaying Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 1687
Loc: Perth, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Cygnus64
Mahler has gone from obscure to overplayed.


Yes - any idea why that is? Is it a copyright thing?

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#2456132 - 12/12/12 02:41 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: stillplaying]
CEB Offline
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I have the Alfred's collection of Bach's 2-part Inventions. I really like that book it comes with a CD and they have nice notation on the ornamentations.
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#2456138 - 12/12/12 03:10 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
mate stubb Offline
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Bach on piano bothers me. I don't know why, but overuse of dynamics is probably a contributing factor.

Long live baroque instruments!
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#2456162 - 12/12/12 05:54 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: mate stubb]
CEB Offline
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Yes I can see that being the culprit. I am at home at the piano I just played through the first Prelude in WTC and Czerny has dynamics ranging from pp to ff in the score.
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#2456164 - 12/12/12 05:57 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
Bridog6996 Offline
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The dynamic range of an actual clavichord is generally more like mp down to pp. It's a very quiet instrument.

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#2456326 - 12/13/12 11:09 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: Bridog6996]
CEB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bridog6996
The dynamic range of an actual clavichord is generally more like mp down to pp. It's a very quiet instrument.


Speaking of which this is one of the points Andras Schiff points to in this discussion on Bach.



I will not pedal.
I will not pedal.
I will not .........


Edited by CEB (12/13/12 11:12 AM)
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#2470049 - 02/09/13 09:23 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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You can find parts of this on YouTube but this is a full hour segment.

This is from a Chinese YouTube type site I don't if it can be embedded.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzcxMTI1NjUy.html

This helps me understand the issues I had with some of Glenn Gould interpretations. I like his interpretations of major Bach works but his interpretation of a lot of the stuff that I play through I don't like. In the middle of this he explains experimentation with tempos and other aspects in minor works like inventions, preludes, fugues and gigues but would NOT think of doing that to multi movement pieces and pieces of great importance such as Concertos or Partitas. Glenn was an interesting man.


Edited by CEB (02/09/13 09:58 AM)
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#2494754 - 05/20/13 07:13 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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#2495248 - 05/21/13 02:31 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: Ashville.Guru]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
Originally Posted By: mate_stubb
I'm getting goosebumps just sitting here and thinking of certain moments in St. Anne's Fugue. No other composer does that to me. Bach is truly sublime.


You have no idea how universal this is. I remember the first Bach piece I heard years ago moved me to tears - before I even knew who the composer was. And I come from a very different musical background - western music forms a very small fraction of my listening. I still can't tell one piece from another, why the key scale is mentioned, or what the heck a fugue is. And I've seen similar reactions from friends who are accomplished musicians in the Indian classical tradition - even the die-hard purists who don't listen to any western music.

Thanks for this thread, and the posts in it.


Not politically correct but I couldn't care less... JS Bach is by far the greatest western musician composer in recorded western history.
Pablo Casals says as much.

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#2495254 - 05/21/13 03:21 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: I-missRichardTee]
David Emm Offline
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Loc: Oz. Its too damned green.
I have an aged LP called "The Pocket Bach" by George Fields, the first-chair harmonica virtuoso who played for films such as "Paint Your Wagon." He sat in a walk-in closet and played Bach one line at a time into an 8-track reel-to-reel. He used about 12 different instruments, one being a large Hohner chromatic with a hefty slide on it. Like all Bach, its riveting and perfect. It highlights how you can play it on ANYthing and have it translate seamlessly.

I see mention of his music, but I encourage you to read one of his many biographies. Your admiration will triple when you learn of how he lost a beloved young wife and several children to illness as a younger man, had to fight to inject any creativity into what was often seen as an adjunct to worship only and wrestled politics and the demands of teaching all his life. He usually had a cadre of puckerbutts pulling him this way and that all the time. To handle so many pressures and STILL crank out reams of such works makes him seem almost supernatural. Why, the poor man didn't even have tape cassettes, much less Pro Tools. You think YOU have rehearsal hassles.... shocked
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#2495257 - 05/21/13 03:24 PM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: David Emm]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: David Emm
I have an aged LP called "The Pocket Bach" by George Fields, the first-chair harmonica virtuoso who played for films such as "Paint Your Wagon." He sat in a walk-in closet and played Bach one line at a time into an 8-track reel-to-reel. He used about 12 different instruments, one being a large Hohner chromatic with a hefty slide on it. Like all Bach, its riveting and perfect. It highlights how you can play it on ANYthing and have it translate seamlessly.



I see mention of his music, but I encourage you to read one of his many biographies. Your admiration will triple when you learn of how he lost a beloved young wife and several children to illness as a younger man, had to fight to inject any creativity into what was often seen as an adjunct to worship only and wrestled politics and the demands of teaching all his life. He usually had a cadre of puckerbutts pulling him this way and that all the time. To handle so many pressures and STILL crank out reams of such works makes him seem almost supernatural. Why, the poor man didn't even have tape cassettes, much less Pro Tools. You think YOU have rehearsal hassles.... shocked


Amen to all of that work ethic and grit
Close to supernatural indeed
pablo Casals Said Bach was Divine
And again he said Bach was in his own category above all others- sorry for poor paraphrasing.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (05/21/13 03:27 PM)

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#2495351 - 05/22/13 02:43 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: David Emm]
ksoper Offline
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Originally Posted By: David Emm
I have an aged LP called "The Pocket Bach" by George Fields


I'd love to hear this. I found bassharp.com and read the liner notes written, amazingly enough, by Rory Guy, better known as Angus Scrimm, "The Tall Man."

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#2515304 - 07/29/13 09:09 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: ksoper]
CEB Offline
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A like the far away sound of this piano. Usually everything I do sounds close and in your face. Not sure if this was the intent or just a consequence of it being an old recording.

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#2522405 - 08/28/13 11:56 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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#2608275 - 07/03/14 05:20 AM Re: A Bach Thread [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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