Another "Help Me Pick a Second Board" thread

[MathOfInsects]

My current rig, when it's two boards, is NS3C on the bottom and Roland FA-06 on top. I bought the FA because it checked a lot of boxes in one board--good-enough to good "second board" sounds plus a sample bank, step sequencer, and vocoder, each of which I need for various projects. I even like Roland's goofy IR controller and use it all the time on synth patches or to turn on their warbly Leslie sim.

 

Pre-pandemic I started to bring it to every gig, even what would have been one-board gigs, so I could bond with it as a second board. But the fact is a workstation just isn't the ideal second board for the gigs I do that don't require all the other elements. Plus Roland's contrived UI, with their "yes, I am really sure that I meant the thing I just said I wanted you to do" interface--which, by the way, puts the "yes" and "no" on opposite sides for each step--and their annoying better-make-sure-the-right-tiny-element-is-barely-highlighted-in-slightly-lighter-white-than-all-the-other-elements-before-you-spin-that-dial is just too clunky for my needs at a lot of the gigs I play. It's great for the couple of projects where I spend time with it as a workstation in advance, and host a lot of samples. And it's pretty good for some other projects. But for the gigs where it's pick-a-patch-on-the-fly based on what you're hearing in real time, and modify on the spot, which is most of my gigs...it's shite. And the sounds are older than my kids. Added up. And there are 12,942 saws for no apparent reason. There are fewer saws at the DeWalt factory. We get it, Roland, you like saws. But I have a gig to play.

 

So I put it to the hive: I need a good GIGGING second board with:

⢠a very easy-to-read and intuitive screen and interface. Knobs over menus.

⢠a very good (knobby) synth, laid out well. VA/hybrid/sampler/rompler/all on the table. This is for parts and solos. I do not need to loop.

⢠good enough EP's/clav/AP so that if I need to supplement with it, I can

⢠maybe a decent organ section, but a couple of decent sounding presets are Ok, since I'll have my NS3C whenever I play this anyway

⢠workable-to-good horns and strings for wedding gigs

⢠pitch/mod/aftertouch, duh, midi in/out duh

⢠did I mention very intuitive and adjustable on the fly

⢠61 or 73 keys

⢠not fully weighted

⢠and if it had all those things plus a vocoder, even better

 

I personally will be looking at the <$1200 range for this, but I feel free to make suggestions up and down the price range in case they help others down the line, or I become wealthy, whichever comes first (so in case they help others).

 

Thanks in advance.

[ElmerJFudd]

Tall order for the price. Since your NS3 compact checks a lot of these boxes, you could get a controller perhaps and just setup your splits for external control⦠Scott and a few others may know better.

 

Price not an issue a Kronos 61 would fit the bill. Maybe you can find one used.

A Montage 61 as well for that matter.

 

On the cheap hitting only some marks the Vox Continental or the Roland VR-730 are very useful on second tier.

[Tusker]

MODX gets you close I think. Lacking in VA, B3 and knobs but is a solid all rounder.

[drawback]

MODX gets you close I think. Lacking in VA, B3 and knobs but is a solid all rounder.

 

+1

 

Korg Nautilus, although it"s way over your budget.

[U.Honey]

One board that checks all the boxes except vocoder is NS3C, but you have one already. One option could be running the Nord in dual keyboard mode. Basically, a controller board would run panel B and Nord would run panel A. It"s not quite the same as having two independent boards but your setup would otherwise pretty simple. For example, you wouldn"t need a mixer because NSC3 would be the only sound source. And, you could use pretty much any controller since they all have MIDI. And, if you bring IPad to gigs you could use that as an alternative sound source for the controller as well.

I"m experimenting with that kind of setup at the moment. I haven"t played any gigs with that setup yet but I"m working to get there.

If that"s not viable then I"d check Yamaha Modx 6/7.

[AnotherScott]

Ah, I'm being paged!

 

Everything mentioned so far is missing the properly laid out knobby synth, or the aftertouch, or both.

 

I assume by "workable-to-good horns and strings" you'd like something better than what you can get on the Nord, yes?

 

Alas... there's nothing remotely like what you're looking for anywhere near your price range. Not much at ANY price.

 

Best answer is probably Fantom 6/7. If you go for more dedicated knobs but less screen, maybe a Jupiter X or a Prophet X. I'm not sure how the brass and strings are.

 

The suggestion of using another board to also control your Nord in Dual KB mode is worth looking into. If that board had a good patch selection interface, good MIDI functionality, and good horns/strings of its own, that might do enough of what you need, since you're off-loading a lot of the needs back onto the Nord. Also, you could consider adding better horns/strings to your Nord (or whatever else) from an iPad or something...

[MathOfInsects]

Using Dual KB mode with the Nord requires dedicating the B panel to that second board. But I use both panels routinely as part of my regular setup, and also this requires too much advance set-up for the on-the-fly nature of what I'm needing. I do Dual KB for a lot of the same gigs I do the workstation stuff for, so that option is actually covered by the FA-06.

 

MODX is not out of the question. I will try to put my hands on one. I spent some time poking on the Motif XF6 recently, but in spite of the great screen and plentiful sounds, it's another workstation just like the FA-06. VR-730 seems attractive but I eventually found the synth aspect of its predecessor the VR-09 practically unusable live because of the aggressive baked-in effects that were not conducive to real-time adjustment. But it's in the realm and I've been wanting to put hands on.

 

Vox Conty did not move me last I tried it, but I may have had other uses in mind back then.

 

I do not want to involve an ipad. I'm obsessed with rig economy.

 

Wow, that Nautilus is sexy. I probably would have been better off not looking at it.

[AnotherScott]

MODX is not out of the question.

So a board without a knobby synth or aftertouch is not out of the question? Then the MODX could fit the bill. Kurzweil SP6-7 is simpler and might be sufficient; Kurzweil PC4-7 adds more real-time control and aftertouch, among other things, but really pushes the budget, especially with the recent price increase. Since the VR-730 is "in the realm" of what you're looking for, the Yamaha YC61 and Hammond SK Pro could be closer to what you want, the latter giving you the knobby lead synth. Thinking outside the box a little, possibly a Korg PA700 or PA1000 (the latter has aftertouch).

[MathOfInsects]

Hmm, cool ideas but they don't quite seem to hit it. They generally seem closer to the NS3C than the FA. This is one thread where "Nord Lead" might have been a serious suggestion. I wish it had some ROMpler elements.

[stoken6]

This is one thread where "Nord Lead" might have been a serious suggestion. I wish it had some ROMpler elements.

Nord Wave? The 2 is over your budget, but a secondhand first-gen?

 

Do you need to be able to limp through a gig if one board fails?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CEB]

$1200? There ain"t none. I ride an FA on top in my Pop band. I don"t like the FA much but since I like the sampler a lot and use it heavily the only thing I could replace it with is a Fantom. Personally I"d move the Nord on top and get a new bottom board. Korg Setlist is a great control App. But the Nautilus is over budget. If you can swing it I"d check Interest free finance deals and buy once and get what you really want. But what do I know. I"m saddled with the FA too because it works and due to the plague I can"t cost justify a replacement. That Nord is sure a nice top board.

[Aidan]

Given you have the B3 side covered already with the NS3C, and given the budget and versatility needed, my vote would be MODX too, as the latter is really its only major failing. Enough bread and butter to get you through any gig on its own if something did go awry or the Nord was pinched, plus some really wacky out there stuff with the FM etc. It has vocoder capabilities too, and the Live Set feature makes it easy to go from song to song in a setlist with a single button press.

[lsj]

MODX all the way

[AnotherScott]

MODX is not out of the question.

So a board without a knobby synth or aftertouch is not out of the question? Then the MODX could fit the bill. Kurzweil SP6-7 is simpler and might be sufficient; Kurzweil PC4-7 adds more real-time control and aftertouch, among other things, but really pushes the budget, especially with the recent price increase. Since the VR-730 is "in the realm" of what you're looking for, the Yamaha YC61 and Hammond SK Pro could be closer to what you want, the latter giving you the knobby lead synth. Thinking outside the box a little, possibly a Korg PA700 or PA1000 (the latter has aftertouch).

Hmm, cool ideas but they don't quite seem to hit it. They generally seem closer to the NS3C than the FA. This is one thread where "Nord Lead" might have been a serious suggestion. I wish it had some ROMpler elements.

If MODX is under consideration, why not Kurz? I'd say the MODX and SP6 meet your bullet points about equally, with MODX having an advantage in its screen (and, related, patch selection), but SP6 having the advantage in the intuitive operation you mentioned twice (for example, in creating splits/layers and managing those sound combinations in real time). Though MODX does have your "bonus" feature of vocoder. (Even the out-of-budget PC4 doesn't have that, though it does give you the aftertouch.) Neither MODX nor SP6 really addresses your knobby synth spec. MODX has no VA, though the synth sounds are fully editable on-board. SP6 has VA, but anything beyond minimal editing involves an awkward computer editor. Pick your poison.

 

You said the VR-730 in the realm of what you're looking for (even though that is, indeed, something closer to the NS3C than the FA), and that you were hoping to try it. I wouldn't bother only because, whatever you didn't like about those VR09 effects will be identical in the VR730, there's been no change there (in fact, a VR730 is little more than a VR09 with more and better quality keys). Thinking about a similar-to-VR-730 board without what you didn't like about the VR09, the YC61 and SK Pro came to mind. YC61 loses points because of its minimal synth function. SK Pro, though, is closer to an improved VR-09/VR730... but yeah, we're back to the budget problem.

 

Nord Lead with rompler elements would be Nord Wave. I did think about suggesting a used Nord Wave (as an alternative to the again out of budget Nord Wave 2), but ruled it out based on my suspicion that you wanted better-than-Nord horns and strings. They're there, their just not first-rate, just as on the NS3C. It also falls short in some other ways... only 49 keys, and weak on the piano stuff (but it's not non-existant... see https://www.nordkeyboards.com/sound-libraries/nord-sample-library-20/pianos ). But if you think Nord Lead could have been in the running if only it had ROMpler elements, well, there you are. (The Lead similarly not having 61 keys.) In fact, unlike most of the Nord Leads, the Waves have aftertouch.

[allan_evett]

Another vote for the Yamaha MODX..

 

I have a MODX 8, and a few years back gigged it quite a bit with my Stage 3, 76. The MODX 8 stays home now as the central keyboard in my recording/virtual teaching workspace, and the Nord has become my main live keyboard - especially for compact rig work.

I've strongly considered having a MODX 6 in that compact rig - and replacing a 'one trick pony' that occasionally has been used along with the NS3. Other than its tonewheel capabilities (which despite control limitations are still quite capable for basic coverage), the MODX sounds great and is highly versatile. Lots of solid B & B patches, plus sounds I've not quite come up with anywhere else - credit that to the FM-X engine.

[allan_evett]

AnotherScott and I just cross-posted on this, and I like his Kurzweil inclusion. But stretching the budget a little: I'm wondering if a PC4-7 would also be a strong contender. Still less costly than a Nord Wave 2, and with better horns and strings. In fairness, Nord has improved a bit in those areas, but I've still had to do some rather twisted edits to cover songs like Sweet Caroline, It's Not Unusual, and You Can Leave Your Hat On; whereas other brands can nail those parts, right out of the box.

[Adan]

I don't have time to dive into the detail of this "I want a keyboard no one has invented yet for an impossibly low price" thread, but there's a "demo" SP6-7 at Sweetwater right now for $1,169.

[cphollis]

If it were me with similar parameters, it'd be the MODX6. Your NS3C has B3, knobs and a decent synth section. The MODX does better with the NS3C weak spots: horns, strings, woodwind, FM synth, etc. I'd also consider using the NS3C as a master controller for the MODX, firing off program changes, etc. But the MODX screen looks more usable, so maybe the other way?

 

Programming one to act as failback for the other would be too hard for me. @ajstan uses two NSs for that reason, among others. I am in the process of adding an iPad to my rig, but I'm a long ways from being comfortable with it.

[drawback]

This looks like a job for a PC4-6, but don't hold your breath.

[MathOfInsects]

Fantastic input. Thank you. Regarding price: I know, but just post-pandemic I can"t swing more, or even this much.

 

MODX front and center, with SP6-7 earning a look.

 

Message received on VR-730. I held out hope they"d fixed some of the additional issues with that board, because I liked it in concept, but I won"t waste my time on that one.

 

Nord Wave (and Lead) have other reasons they don"t fit this particular bill. But the Wave comes closer. Somehow I never paid attention to that board.

 

I peeped the Nautilus demos last night and am not sure the sounds (the ones I"d most often use) are worth the budget-busting, but still kind of want to lay hands on, and have sometimes considered CEB"s suggestion of making my NS3C the top board of a two-board rig-gig.

 

No Modx"s at our 'good' music store or at GC. I will try Sam Ash today.

 

Thank you once again for the great suggestions.

[AnotherScott]

I'd also consider using the NS3C as a master controller for the MODX, firing off program changes, etc. But the MODX screen looks more usable, so maybe the other way?

Yes, probably, the other way. Patch selection is a NS3C weakness and a MODX strength. You can even create independent re-usable MODX patches (aka "single part Performances") that basically consist of nothing but a command to send a Program Change (or, if you prefer, a Program Change and an assignment to play them from some portion of the MODX keys). You can then incorporate that as often as you'd like in other multi-part Performances, including splitting/layering them with internal sounds. Bascially, the MODX can call up external sounds just as easily and with just as much flexibility as it does its internal sounds. And all selectable from named touchscreen buttons.

[miden]

There is the possibility of adding a small iPad mini (in USD, probs under about $400???) and using some of the excellent (of late) libraries of sounds - of which brass and strings there are a couple of beauties...and coupling that to either a dedicated controller and/or your main 'boards. The latest A12 chip in the minis is pretty astounding in capability. And it still retains the audio out 3.5mm jack.

 

Just throwing it out there for an alternative...

[MathOfInsects]

Honestly, the thread went toward them, but brass and strings are a tiny part of my requirements. It's more in the synth/solo/ range I need the versatility.

 

Which brings me to....just laid hands on a Virus Ti2 at a price nearly within my stated budget. Everything but brass and strings, which I suppose I already have on the FA06 when I need them for wedding gigs--where I'll never need a VA synth anyway. There's some FM in there--some nice EPs and a couple of (barely passable) organs. But holy cow is that VA sweet, and the action is RIDICULOUS. The keybed just dances under the fingers. Beautiful afterouch, completely knobby. Vocoder too! I am having a hard time not picking it up. 61 keys, a great master controller if I go that way. Price is right. Any downsides?

[miden]

Nice 'board!

[ShadowMan]

What about a used MOXF? The introduction of the MODX has put a lot of these on the market.

 

A 6 would be well under your pricepoint, and does everything quite well. There are some great additional Piano, EP, B3 and synth sound libraries out there, too.

 

 

( You WILL have to learn to work with Yamaha"s user-hostile voice design - I"m still learning things about mine!)

[kelp]

I had a Virus kb. Serious board indeed! Despite its knobiness, I found it a little "menu-y" to program. And of course it's on the heavier side.

 

Wish I still had it, but simpler and lighter won the day. But that action! Oh how I miss that action!

 

Only downsides I can think of.

[CEB]

If the Nautilus sounds are like the Kronos then the stock sounds may be kind of blah. I tweak and program all my Kronos sounds. The end result is good. And SetList rocks. Out of the box I like Yamaha. Roland often gets carried away with their verbs.

[Fleer]

Waiting for that MODXF to arrive

[AnotherScott]

Honestly, the thread went toward them, but brass and strings are a tiny part of my requirements.

I think they may have seemed more important because it was, not just something you listed, but also one of the few things you mentioned that is not so great on the NS3C you'd be pairing it with, either.

 

I wonder if a King Korg might be worth considering. Since aftertouch is not essential, it is a low cost board that seems to fit your specs pretty well... primarily a synth, but with a smattering of bread and butter rompler sounds as well. And the synth really sounds quite good. Reasonably knobby... not as much as a Nord Lead/Wave or Virus, but more than MODX, SP6, etc. Some aspects of the interface are quite good, some aren't. Strong effects section, and good bang-for-buck.

[CEB]

Brother David B has me wanting a Jupiter X. But I"m a sucker for Roland Saws played loudly.