soundscape Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Originally posted by steadyb: Originally posted by gliderproarc: Say Dave, ...how do you use these features in a musical context? You mean like American Idol, or Star Search??? Hmm, Kelly Clarkson vs. http://www.roland.com/V-Synth/Nishiwaki/mov/Dawn_Sequence_Hi.mov Cool sound effects. Music? Hmm. Actually, I could see that being used in a movie or a documentary. I visualize a time-lapse sequence of underwater "plants." (It's funny that the Roland video of the Juno-D goes on about how it has "radio ready" sounds. I guess people who create "radio ready" music can't afford the cash for a V-Synth? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Roland never intended the V-Synth to a basic sampler so the limited polyphony and sample import issues is not that big a deal for me. I want it because this is one of the VERY few digital items that has not been replicated in software. It's as much about control as digital processing. I would like a keyboard version of the XT and wish they could do something to make the cards work at the same time as the V-Synth, even if it cost more. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Originally posted by RABid: Roland never intended the V-Synth to a basic sampler so the limited polyphony and sample import issues is not that big a deal for me. I want it because this is one of the VERY few digital items that has not been replicated in software. The VSYnth is probably my all time fav synth (tied with the Korg Z1) but I still think its half finished... importing loop points should be just a simple matter of reading bytes out of the WAV header... and the clicking is inexcusable. There are workarounds I grant you e.g. opening up the audio file and writing down the loop points then manually putting them in the VSynth or moving the loop points a couple of bytes along to get around the clicking enduced by variphrase but it shouldn't be like this... Apparently Emus latest soft sampler can do the synchronised sample play back a'la Vsynth... no idea what its like though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 Originally posted by soundscape: It's funny that the Roland video of the Juno-D goes on about how it has "radio ready" sounds. Hmmmm...radio is typically compressed and lo-fi... Not sure I'd have gone with that marketing angle. Then again, I probably wouldn't have called it a Juno either. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I think "radio-ready" was the Roland way of saying, same sounds everybody else uses. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundscape Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Hmmmm...radio is typically compressed and lo-fi... LOL. Originally posted by ProfD: I think "radio-ready" was the Roland way of saying, same sounds everybody else uses. Hip n' hot sounds, pumped up and ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 Okay, so I've been playing with this thing for like a week now, and I am totally and completely in love with it. Not only does it makes sounds like nothing I've ever heard before (including some of the most outrageous and interesting pads I've ever heard), but it does a pretty great job of producing analog-style sounds (especially leads!). The programming/use of the technology is just outstanding. Heck, I can't even stop playing the thing long enough to delve into beginning to program it. I haven't had that happen to me since I got my Wavestation... ...oh, and the vocoder is a blast as well. Seriously - how come this thing isn't a bigger hit? dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundscape Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Seriously - how come this thing isn't a bigger hit? For me, at least, 'cause Roland didn't show off any great leads and pads... just lots of useless postmodern noises! Though oddly... the pictures of it always have the patch "Sparkler Pad" on the display... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliderproarc Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What I want to know is why no one seems to cary the Keyboard version of the V-synth anymore?? It has a host of real time controllers, and it was cheeper! Okay well back to the XT. I have heard one of the big complaints is the polyphony. About how many voices are you getting on the pad sounds? Also, have you tried importing your own audio for manipulation yet? I think it failed to catch on because of the mystery behind it. People didn't want to lay down two grand for a synth that they had no idea what kinds of sounds it could make. This elastic audio stuff if very innovative, and makes people wonder if it's gonna sound good, or fit in with the kind of music they do. For me, it was just the price. GIGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 Originally posted by gliderproarc: I have heard one of the big complaints is the polyphony.Not for me. If it is cutting out on the poly patches, I'm not hearing it. About how many voices are you getting on the pad sounds? No idea...but it hasn't been as issue (see my previous comment). I had also heard it was a problem so a small part of me is kinda watching for it, but so far it really hasn't come up at all. Also, have you tried importing your own audio for manipulation yet?Nope. Just been playing with the thing. The monor editing/tweaking I've done so far has not only been a breeze, it's actually kinda fun. I dig that little touch screen. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDragonSoun Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I think the great majority don't know a whole lot about it. Its kinda of one of those things where people have heard about it but don't know alot about it. SOmetimes you hear programming and limited polphony and form an opinion without even hearing it. I also think most people focus on workstations, digital pianos or softsynths and don't take the time to go beyond that. Beyond the people like us on these forums (the diehards), many people don't even take the time to go beyond the more popular things. Just my two cents. Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive - Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundscape Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by Silver Dragon Sound: I also think most people focus on workstations, digital pianos or softsynths and don't take the time to go beyond that. Beyond the people like us on these forums (the diehards), many people don't even take the time to go beyond the more popular things. Just my two cents. More than likely, but even among potential customers (e.g., me), I think Roland have done themselves a disservice by doing a poor job of demonstrating its ability to create musical sounds. I think I'll now consider getting one whenever it's discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by Silver Dragon Sound: I think the great majority don't know a whole lot about it. Its kinda of one of those things where people have heard about it but don't know alot about it. SOmetimes you hear programming and limited polphony and form an opinion without even hearing it. I also think most people focus on workstations, digital pianos or softsynths and don't take the time to go beyond that. Beyond the people like us on these forums (the diehards), many people don't even take the time to go beyond the more popular things. Just my two cents. Spot on, SDS. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by Silver Dragon Sound: I think the great majority don't know a whole lot about it. Its kinda of one of those things where people have heard about it but don't know alot about it. SOmetimes you hear programming and limited polphony and form an opinion without even hearing it. I also think most people focus on workstations, digital pianos or softsynths and don't take the time to go beyond that. Beyond the people like us on these forums (the diehards), many people don't even take the time to go beyond the more popular things. Just my two cents. Theres some truth there, but I am the kind of guy who really tried everything out on the VSynth from both a playing and programming angle. I sampled every keyboard I had and some awesome gothic choirs from the Hilliard Ensmble came up with outrageous sounds that I've never ever heard anywhere... the problem I had was I found the PC integration very poor. WHile I think the VSynth offered a beautiful interface, there were parts that seemed unfinished and requring more work than I would have thought. If ROland fix that and offered a bit more CPU power then I'd get it in an instant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundscape Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by orangefunk: I am the kind of guy who really tried everything out on the VSynth from both a playing and programming angle. But what about the PRESETS...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by orangefunk: WHile I think the VSynth offered a beautiful interface, there were parts that seemed unfinished and requring more work than I would have thought. If ROland fix that and offered a bit more CPU power then I'd get it in an instant... I'm really surprised to hear you say that... I haven't found anything that would make me even think about being able to get past how impressed I am with the sounds that come out of it. Was the fact that you were disappointed with the PC integration really that much of a letdown? Also, did you try the rack or the keyboard? Reason I ask - I didn't connect with the keyboard when it first came out a few years back. I really wanted to like it, but I just didn't. It came off to me as more of an audio mangling tool with a keyboard attached than it did a musical instrument. However, as goofy as it sounds, the rack really comes off to me as a whole different animal. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 repeated post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by soundscape: Originally posted by orangefunk: I am the kind of guy who really tried everything out on the VSynth from both a playing and programming angle. But what about the PRESETS...? Presets were pretty lame apart from some lead and pad sounds I thought... the sounds I did by sampling the MOTIF and Z1 were incredible though... they didn't sound anything like the source but took on their own character due to the controls, D-beam and so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: I haven't found anything that would make me even think about being able to get past how impressed I am with the sounds that come out of it. Was the fact that you were disappointed with the PC integration really that much of a letdown? Yes, the whole idea of sampling my own sounds and mangling them was crucial. I really did sample a whole load of material, a lot of choirs in particular. I was disappointed my loop points didn't import and that the variphrase made some clicks in the loop... I tried everything to make the Fairlight Ahhh sound loop... no matter what I did there were glitches... frustrating... Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Also, did you try the rack or the keyboard? Reason I ask - I didn't connect with the keyboard when it first came out a few years back. I really wanted to like it, but I just didn't. It came off to me as more of an audio mangling tool with a keyboard attached than it did a musical instrument. However, as goofy as it sounds, the rack really comes off to me as a whole different animal. dB Yep, I really liked the keyboard too... beautiful feel, awesome D-Beam, scratch pad and so on... I even had the VC2 vard (which I kept for the VariOS)... I sold it because at the time I needed the money and I felt that Roland may be on the cusp of releasing something new and didn't want to lose too much... If the VSYnth Mk2 doesn't arrive, I'll just end up getting a s/h unit and reload all my sounds which I kept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: .....I didn't connect with the keyboard when it first came out a few years back. I really wanted to like it, but I just didn't. It came off to me as more of an audio mangling tool with a keyboard attached than it did a musical instrument....My sentiments as well....although I thought I read somewhere that they offered more mainstream patches in an updated version..perhaps as a response to this issue..but you know what they say about first impressions. This thread has motivated me to try one of these (I tried the keyboard version). Also, how long does it take for the system to re-boot in order to use the D-50 card? This is a feature I am really interested in. "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundscape Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by orangefunk: Originally posted by soundscape: Originally posted by orangefunk: I am the kind of guy who really tried everything out on the VSynth from both a playing and programming angle. But what about the PRESETS...? Presets were pretty lame apart from some lead and pad sounds I thought... the sounds I did by sampling the MOTIF and Z1 were incredible though... they didn't sound anything like the source but took on their own character due to the controls, D-beam and so on... Hmm... so... according to you, it's a good "Create your own choiry pads" machine...? Anything else...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 The Vsynth is good at lots of things.. pads, choirs leads, bass, even the epianos had a great sound. There were some intriguing eastern plucked strings and flutes too The main reason I liked the choir was simply because the VSynth is the only keyboard around that allows you to take a sung phrase with words and actually play it in sync as chords without it going faster or slower... this really offers fabulous possibilities more so than sampling other instruments I think. But yes the sample/edit/bugs were annoying to me. I sampled a lot of sounds into the VSynth but it was hard to loop stuff without tiny clicks. Even some of the actual factory sounds had audible loops artefacts IIRC. The main problem is that you can geat a loop perfect then variphrase it and find the loop has changed... Just another thing though that I recall... I found it hard to mix a lot of VSynth tracks together... moreso than any keyboard I've ever had... perhaps it was because a lot of the patches has lots of fx. Overall I liked the VSynth, I've been playing 25 years now... done lots of synth programming, even C++ audio programming and theres definitely some exciting technology in there but its not quite there for me atm which is why I would be knocked out by a new VSynth... though I'm thinking that with Dave Bryce buying an XT perhaps he knows something we don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzzz Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Not only does it makes sounds like nothing I've ever heard before, but it does a pretty great job of producing analog-style sounds (especially leads!)....oh, and the vocoder is a blast as well. How is it for emulating the old Roland analogs: Jupiter8, Junos, MKS-70, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I think that analogue pads are accomodated well if you use things like supersaw and oscillator stacking chorus and so forth... I don't think that something like the MKS70's Soundtrack patch is in there though... but I've never heard any digital do that. I thought the VSynth offered some great analog sounds, but the best thing are the new kinds of sounds... the arpeg/sequencer was amazing btw.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssian Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: (snip) I didn't connect with the keyboard when it first came out a few years back. I really wanted to like it, but I just didn't. It came off to me as more of an audio mangling tool with a keyboard attached than it did a musical instrument. However, as goofy as it sounds, the rack really comes off to me as a whole different animal. dB [/QB]Hi Dave, Can you tell me what you find different/better about the rack vs the keyboard V Synth? You guys are getting me interested in this synth now. Has anyone had sucess in getting seamless homebrew sample loops? One thing that has never interested me are auto-sequence and arpeggiated patches. How is this synth without those types of sounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by Odyssian: Hi Dave, Can you tell me what you find different/better about the rack vs the keyboard V Synth? I didn't like the keyboard at all - to me, it felt like an audio mangling device with keys attached to it. Maybe the presets are different - I don't know....I just didn't dig it either time I sat down to check it out. The rack, OTOH, felt and played much better to me. Not sure why...as a rule, I way prefer keyboard versions of things. Has anyone had sucess in getting seamless homebrew sample loops? Not my speed - sorry... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssian Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Thanks for the reply. I also wanted to like it when it came out, but I too was disappointed. After playing it, I remember thinking it was more of a groove type of product. Then, a year or two ago, a friend of mine bought one (we have similar tastes), and he loves it. I've been thinking about it ever since! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by Odyssian: Thanks for the reply. I also wanted to like it when it came out, but I too was disappointed. After playing it, I remember thinking it was more of a groove type of product. Exactly. That was not what I was looking for. I was looking for a musical instrument that had sonic capabilities that nothing else in my arsenal had. For some reason, the rack scratches that itch even though the keyboard didn't. In a big way. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 The sonic difference between the keyboard and the XT is a difference in waveforms and patches. The original V-Synth came with OS version 1.0 and associated waveforms and patches. These remained the same through OS version 1.5. When the XT came out, Roland updated the OS to 2.0 and completely revamped the waves/patches. The keyboard can run version 2.0 and it will sound exactly like the XT. Roland incorporates a unique and flexible approach with the V-Synth OS and sounds. The OS and sounds are loaded into RAM at boot from nonvolatile internal storage, but the waveforms are stored in a proprietary format and cannot be altered by the user. The V-Synth doesn't have ROM per se. When Roland changed the waveforms in version 2.0, all 1.0/1.5 patches were made incompatible. For many orginal V-Synth owners the new sounds were a disappointment. To us they sounded more commonplace. They weren't the reason we bought the V-Synth in the first place. Thankfully Roland listened to our bitching and made available the original waveforms/patches in 2.0 format. So we could have all the 2.0 features and the sounds we loved. With the keyboard version, you can run 2.0 with either 1.5 or 2.0 waves/patches. With the XT I believe you can only use the 2.0 waves/patches. Rumor has it Roland will be announcing OS 2.5 and a new VC card. Roland has not charged for any of the V-Synth updates to date. Here are some things I did a while back with the V-Synth (version 1.0/1.5 patches). Luna Park The vocalish lead line uses one of the V-synth's cool features which is to step through the waveform. The base wave is a complex vocalization. Each time you press a note it picks up the wave at a different point, hence the interesting changes as you play repeated notes. What fascinated me when I started fooling around with this patch is that its unique capabilities inspired me to play very differently than I normally do. The pad is also from the V-Synth (I love the fade-out on it). Luna Park Mongoose Here's another vocal-style lead. Mongoose These are the sounds I love from the V-Synth. They have a strong Zawinul/Deep Forest vibe. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Originally posted by burningbusch: These are the sounds I love from the V-Synth. They have a strong Zawinul/Deep Forest vibe. Dude - you're into Deep Forest? I'm literally sitting here listening to Endangered Species as I'm typing this... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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