Tusker Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Can you guys help me. I'm doing a "jazz waltz with modal sensibilities" version of "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" for our town holiday party. I ended up with this descending bass line E, C#, B, A ... with these voicings on the piano (from bottom to top): E, C#, F#, B C#, B, E, A B, G#, C#, F# A, G, B, E I've also got this altered chord in there that I am trying to express simply: A, G, C#, F#, A# I've been thinking of this last chord as A#13#9 or F#-9/A UGGH. There must be a better way. Thanks in advance, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoo schultz Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I'm not at a keyboard but from the vantage point of my little Dell laptop that last chord is an A7b9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Like most voicings of quartal nature, these chords could be named in many ways. The first one could be called an Emaj, C#m7, rootless Amaj, F#m7, or even a Bm7. The second is most definitely an A/C# add9. The fourth is an Em/A or A9sus. The last chord is A13(b9). The sad truth with this kind of chords is that if you try to describe them with chord symbols, you can never be sure that they would be interpreted correctly. Just write them note-for-note. The only possible exception is the last chord, a typical upper structure triad over a dominant chord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted October 29, 2006 Author Share Posted October 29, 2006 Originally posted by marino: The last chord is A13(b9). Yes, a flatted 9 you say? Thanks Stu and Marino. You guys rock. I'll write them out. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Originally posted by Tusker: Originally posted by marino: The last chord is A13(b9). Yes, a flatted 9 you say? Sure. A #9 (also called +9) from an A root would be C natural, or B# (same note). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted October 29, 2006 Author Share Posted October 29, 2006 Originally posted by marino: Originally posted by Tusker: Originally posted by marino: The last chord is A13(b9). Yes, a flatted 9 you say? Sure. A #9 (also called +9) from an A root would be C natural, or B# (same note). I know. I was just embarrased at calling a flat a sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 If one chord can generate 25 pages, think of how many pages _this_ thread can generate:D:D:D:D I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhunter Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Yes, very risky putting up a "what chord is this" thread . Very much depends on the melody as many of the chords don't have a 3rd so could be major or minor - the melody may fill in the missing harmony. As this is a reharm it would be dangerous to assume the key especially as we don't know where abouts in the tune these chords occur. Taking the chord progression as a stand alone, how about this: 1. E6/9 there's no third so could be minor but no 7 hence the 6/9 2. A add9/C# 3. B6/9 (again no third so could be minor) 4. Am9 (not a sus4 chord, sus2? - no third so could be minor or major) The last chord I would notate A7b9 but it does have the 6th so A13b9 might be more accurate? But what do I know - feel free to shoot me down in flames!! PS. don't anyone tell Jazzwee or Legatoboy about this thread Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Real men use conventional notation when chord symbols fall short. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Manhunter - everything you say is correct, but the real pont is the quartal nature of most of those chords. Assuming that Tusker wants this quality preserved, to notate them with symbols would be nonsense, as another pianist could voice them in lots of different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DafDuc Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 E, C#, F#, B F#sus4/E C#, B, E, A Esus4/C# B, G#, C#, F# C#sus4/B A, G, B, E Em/A A, G, C#, F#, A# A13b9 I wouldn't be embarrassed about calling the Bb an A# - that chord sure looked like an F# triad over an A and a G when you spelled it that way. There's probably some way to play around the F# triad when you solo over it too. As far as all the slash chords I listed - it seems like that's the way they're working, especially seen as a group. Trying to express them using 3rds is an interesting exercise, but pretty much ignores the way they function. I played in an 8 piece horn band. We would often get bored. So...three words: "Tower of Polka." - Calumet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 Thanks guys. Yes I'm trying to avoid the triadic harmonies. And the sus designation would be the best way to do that. Thanks Daf. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhunter Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Manhunter - everything you say is correct, but the real pont is the quartal nature of most of those chords. Assuming that Tusker wants this quality preserved, to notate them with symbols would be nonsense, as another pianist could voice them in lots of different ways. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, I agree. The chords as written have much more meaning than chord symbols which are open to interpretation. As always it's difficult to state in words when the sounds are what's important but I just attempted to put down what one may get in a lead sheet which is only a guide anyway. This is one of the great things about music where you get this sort of ambituaty (sp!!) and it's down to the player's ears and/ability. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Originally posted by Manhunter: This is one of the great things about music where you get this sort of ambituaty (sp!!) and it's down to the player's ears and/ability.Unacceptable. That denies the need for conventional notation. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhunter Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Originally posted by kanker, apparently: Originally posted by Manhunter: This is one of the great things about music where you get this sort of ambituaty (sp!!) and it's down to the player's ears and/ability.Unacceptable. That denies the need for conventional notation. Did I write that It was late last night and I was slightly (maybe more than slightly!) drunk. And that your honour is the case for the defence Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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