superpowter77 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Actually it was true, I'm pretty dissapointed after spending $1100 on a xv-2020 w/ srx09 and srx10 and hours of trying we couldn't get the trumpet and flute sound we were looking for. Worse yet my whole band agreed sounds coming from an old psr2100 on those instruments were more convincing and real. I'm thinking seriously to buy a psr 3000 or motif es6 tonight or even a used tyros if I can get it cheap, and yes just because those instruments we are going to be using a lot on montuno performances. Question here would be: anybody have some experience with motif es and motif rack es sounds regarding sweet voices. Are those at the same level of PSR3000/Tyros/Tyros2 keyboards??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Did you play the XV prior to purchasing it? No amount of tweaking the sounds brought them up to your satisfaction? Maybe you cats have gotten used to the PSR sounds. Before throwing more money at the sound issue, I would suggest you and a few bandmates audition the boards prior to purchase. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpowter77 Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 No I did not, I based my purchase on reviews and was really close to get a motif rack es, at the end I've spent the same amount of money.Actually they did not have any preference by manufacturer, they were being objective and I agreed with them after all. Sound overall lacks realism and output is too low as well. Try several Keyboard amps, Tweaking,etc with no acceptable sound quality/output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaurusT Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I agree that the PSR's/Yamaha's line have way better brass for live-use in a band. I've never got my Rolands to do these tasks in the band I used to play in. It was always the Yamaha. However, for filmscoring I'm sticking with Rolands SRX cards for brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Try pulling down the reverb/effects on the Rolands. They should sound more defined if you do that. I do think the stock Roland sounds generally have too little mid-range to be very assertive. You can use EQ but there's only so far that will take you. Hope this helps, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Learning Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Hey superpowter77, were you auditioning stereo patches in a mono environment? If so, it could be that dreaded stereo-to-mono phasing situation that sometimes degrades the overall sound of some patches. That being said, there are definitely some Roland patches that work better solo than in a mix and vise-versa, same for Yamaha, Korg, etc. I hope you find the sound that works for you and the band, good luck... When most people go to work, they work. When musicians go to work, they play. Which do you prefer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundscape Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by superpowter77: Question here would be: anybody have some experience with motif es and motif rack es sounds regarding sweet voices. Are those at the same level of PSR3000/Tyros/Tyros2 keyboards??? According to synthmania.com, the Yamaha MOTIF has the same Sweet! Flute and Trumpet as the PSR/Tyros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDragonSoun Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Posted by Still Learning: Hey superpowter77, were you auditioning stereo patches in a mono environment? This was my thought as well. I had this happen to me in the past and it does make a difference in your sound. I also agree that sometimes band mates get used to sounds and those sounds greatly influence how your band reacts to your sound. I also had this happen when I switched keyboards. I actually took the new keyboard back and got something else. As Prof D mentioned taking your band mates with you or at least one of them may be a good thing as well. Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive - Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpowter77 Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 Also the "Great" xv-2020 is forcing me to get another Keyboard amp(200 watts of higher) because of its limited output. I tested roland kc-550($599) and motion sound KP200S ($879) an got satisfactory results with xv-2020.My current amps crate kxb100 and alesis sumo300 (both deliver 100 watts aprox.)can't manage my xv-2020 properly. This has just become ridiculous, I'm just going to get rid of this roland toy and be extra careful on my next purchase(hopefully this weekend) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundscape Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 It's nothing to do with the maximum power output of the power amplifier, it's to do with the overall gain. In other words power output of an amplifer is not a measurement along the lines of the number of times larger a lens makes an image--only the amount of power that it can provide to the loudspeaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Superpowter, The PSR2100 has 32 Meg of ROM compared to the XV2020 at 64 Meg (compressed equivalent). While ROM size is not an indicator of sound quality, the two are not that far apart in spec and I would not automatically assume the XV has better sounds. Even with the SRX boards. However ... The Roland does have some nice sounds in it and should be able to generate professional levels of sound. Are you currently using the XV in patch mode or performance mode? Gainstaging in performance mode can be a little more complex than in patch mode. Typically there is headroom available even in patch mode that you can engage. Would you consider describing the kinds of sounds you need for your application? You mentioned a montuno ...? What's the line up of your band? Are you supplementing an existing wind instrument section? I use to use an older XP30 to do afro-cuban horns, sometimes supplementing a horn section. I found that I had to dig into the instrument's synthesis parameters to find combinations I liked, but once I got them set, I could contribute quite effectively. Hoping this encourages you, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayvon Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Have you tried using the XV computer editor to tweak the SRX-11? I've just bought a SRX-12 (in a Fantom XR) and it needed some tweaking to sound to my liking. You can do quite alot for the sound since it has four velocity layers so you can tailor things like having the lower layers sound almost as loud as the forte ones. It's impossible for Roland to write patches that anticipate the differences not only in midi controllers but also taste. My advice would be to have a play around and try tweaking things like the dynamic range + velocity layers. You'll not need as much dynamic range in a live band situation but you can make more use of the tonal variations the SRX-11 gives you. Don't give up on the thing just yet! The output level problems may just be a combination of your midi velocity being sent and the dynamic range of the patch. Hope this helps, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 . Find 750 of Harry's solo piano arrangements and tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas These arrangements are for teaching solo piano chording using Harry's 2+2 harmony method. Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpowter77 Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 "Would you consider describing the kinds of sounds you need for your application? You mentioned a montuno ...? What's the line up of your band? Are you supplementing an existing wind instrument section?" On montuno performances I do trumpets(3), trombon,latin tuba and generally a few extra brass instruments with one keyboard(xv-2020), with the other one use it strictly for piano performances(latin jazz) melodically and harmonically ,they(band) do live afro-caribbean percussion conga,bongo,timbales,guiro,clave,etc, plus acoustic drums and flamenco acoustic guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 IMHO, the Yamahas sounds are just superior than Roland's, including the XV line. I have the motif ES 6 and you won't get better expression out there from any other board. This includes, Flutes, Trumpets and brass in general. If you add a breath controller to that (I don't use one) your sounds' realism will go up several notches. HTH, aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpowter77 Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 I'm going to the store tomorrow morning and will be carrying my keyboards and amps to do a real simulation there. Won't make same mistake twice and will buy whatever get me "out of the box", realistic and expressive sounds. Hopefully will get those in a rack format. I do not really want to spend 3 grand on a fantom x8 or motif es8 to get my desired instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Since you seem incapable of even the most rudamentary editing procedures like increasing patch or performance level on your 2020, your search is much easier. Buy the box with the presets that sound best to you. You apparently will not ever touch them other than call them up. All out talk about ROM, D/A converters, effects, are non-applicable in your situation. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpowter77 Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 To Bill H.I tweaked them using the onboard combination switches came with and no luck at all. Why do you think I spent the extra money on SRX cards?You are assuming I didn't do anything to improve/fix lack of realism/expression on xv-2020,because of my last remark. The truth here is I finally got tired of adjust/tweak every patch with software editors to make it work. I got enough with PLG-150PF boards.I don't have the time for it. Our complex montuno performances demands a lot of practicing. Taking a laptop with me to the stage doesn't sound feasible either.thanks anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 . Find 750 of Harry's solo piano arrangements and tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas These arrangements are for teaching solo piano chording using Harry's 2+2 harmony method. Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by superpowter77: To Bill H. I tweaked them using the onboard combination switches came with and no luck at all. I think Bill is referring to actually programming the synths, adjusting volumes of various tones, adjusting the filter to brighten or dim the tones, adjusting the attack/decay to create more punch etc. Reducing the reverb return as I suggested... Doing these kinds of edits allows you to have more flexibility. However I don't think this is for you. I would agree with the advice Bill gave you. Find something that sounds good as you audition it. Go to a physical store so that you have the option to return something Al makes a good point about the Yamaha Motif sounds. They are strong and bright right out of the box. I don't know if you can get complete instrument coverage from the Kurzweils, but I would suggest you audition a PC2 or something similar to see if it meets your needs. The Kurzweil have a warm mid-range sound. Both of these brands sound punchier than the Rolands to my ears. (That's the factory sounds. With editing, one can make a Roland very punchy.) These are generalizations but I hope they are helpful to you. By all means, audition before you buy. Many of us are familiar with the work it takes to play afro-cuban music well. Playing the stabs as well as the montunos is not easy. However it can be a lot of fun once you get it down. Good luck! Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 . Find 750 of Harry's solo piano arrangements and tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas These arrangements are for teaching solo piano chording using Harry's 2+2 harmony method. Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 . Find 750 of Harry's solo piano arrangements and tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas These arrangements are for teaching solo piano chording using Harry's 2+2 harmony method. Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 The brass patches on the SRX-10 are mapped out like the more sophisticated orchestral libraries. You have the different articulations for each instrument. The idea is that you use the card with a MIDI sequencer and switch between the various articulations either by having them on separate MIDI channels or use program changes. But a phrase might look like 3 notes stacatto, one long note, two short duration notes. There are a handful of patches designed for live use, but that's not the way the card should be used, ideally. If you want to grab a handful of notes, play them in realtime then any you should be able to stumble on one or two patches in any of the ROMplers. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Try a Kurzweil PC2r or ME1, which is basically a PC2r minus the multi fx (just basic delay and reverb) and minus the KB3 organ mode, neither of which you need. If your less than thrilled with the brass, do layers, add slight detuning, alter the filter and resonance on the second trumpet, add slight note-on delay for the second trombone in the layer, etc. Yamaha do good flutes but I wouldn't reach for a Motif if I wanted brass. and I'd give up on keyboard amps. Try powered speakers instead. Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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