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Kurzweil classic keys rom


King Julien

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I have a PC2R and been thinking about adding the classic keys ROM. Its a bit difficult because of some other recent purchases, but I've been following the prices. The best price seemed to suddenly go down from $159 to $119 a few months ago. I was about to get one when I noticed the prices have all gone up again, and that many of the previous sellers now seem to be out of stock. All this seems a bit strange - any explanation? Is a newer version coming out i should wait for? Or should I get one while I still can? (they are pretty rare on ebay)

 

John

I like to move it, move it (except The Wurly which can be a bit temperamental and the 122 for obvious reasons)
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Unsound, could you care to describe your style of music and what you like to play (or what your influences are, artists etc.) Since I've never been able to locate a PC2/PC1 with the Classic Keys ROM, it would help to understand your perspective of what sort of styles/tastes may prefer the Kurz ROM over the Electro for EPs etc.
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Unsound,

I believe the wurlys are not new samples but just edits of the old ones - so I don't understand why they would be so much better. Or, if they are, shouldn't i be able to tweak them to sound the same? BTW the best Wurly I've found in the PC2R is the road wurly - at least it sounds closest to my real, rather beaten up wurly. I EQ it a bit using my XK-3 : the tremolo sounds more realistic than a lot of the other samples.

John

I like to move it, move it (except The Wurly which can be a bit temperamental and the 122 for obvious reasons)
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You ask a very valid question. I play keys in a pop rock cover band that has a rep ranging from Chuck Berry to The Killers. Do I play jazz? No. Do I consider myself a solid blues guy no? No. Can I read? Yes. (Hi Dave H :) ). Have I ever owned or played a Rhodes? No. Wurli? No. Hammond. No. Moog? Yes. Piano? Yes.

 

Would a keyboard player seeing me gig walk away saying I had good chops? Probably not. Would he say I have great tone and covered my parts and fit in a band situation better than many in my city? Probably.

 

So that's me. Now onto Classic Keys vs. Electro. First discard what I am not comparing... their Hammonds, CP70/80, Mellotrons, Solinas, etc. Rhodes and Wurlis is where they cross paths.

 

Note I gig in mono, and don't do any studio recording.

 

On both the Rhodes and Wurlis, I find the Kurz to be a bit more expresive. The "bark" is more controlable, and playing pp to ff actually has some dynamic range. The guys who did the presets on the Classic Keys ROM speant time nailing some good sounds... which makes the programmer in you want to try it and tweak it yourself. The Electro is, well, an Electro.

 

Important caveat... I'm playing them on different keybeds. I've tried the MIDI and compare thing once or twice but since I gig and carry gear, I wouldn't carry a 'board that needs to be MIDI'd to another keybed to work for me. On most gigs I'm doing the two keyboard thing (Motif ES7 over Kurz PC1x). On big gigs I'll bring four 'boards (Motif over Kurz, NL3 over NE2/73). To be honest, the last "big gig" I did with roadies and a truck I still left the Electro and NL3 home.

 

Another important caveat is that I use the Kurz for other sounds... ac piano, strings, synths, etc. that I can not get from the Electro, so perhaps (and just perhaps) the lazy side of me is trading off tonality for convenience. But I don't think so...

 

So I stand by my original statement. King Julien already has a PC2R, so the <$200 on the Classic Keys ROM is money well speant to add to his available palete of sounds.

 

If he was asking whether he should buy a PC2R with the ROM or a NE rack, I probably would not have offered an opinion.

 

There are a few others on the forum who have Classic Keys. Chime in lads and lasses!

"More tools than talent"

Motif ES7:Kurzweil PC1x:Electro 2 73:Nord Lead 3:MKS-80:Matrix 1000:Microwave XT

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You are right, KJ. To quote the manual, "The PC1x Classic Keys ROM contains samples of the following instruments: Hohner Clavinet (Treble Pickup Setting and Release Thump), Mellotron (Strings, Choir and Flute) ARP Solina String Ensemble, Hohner Pianet, Yamaha CP-80 Electric Grand Piano (Soft and Hard Strikes), and RMI Electra-Piano (Piano, Harpsi and Accenter). Classic Keys also makes use of the PC1x base ROM samples, and includes new vintage Rhodes and Wurlitzer programs."

 

So why is it the "Rufus Wurli" preset is rocking my world right now? :) .

 

I'm out of town right now otherwise I'd try the "dump object" thingie and let someone try it it in a PC2. That and two or three other Rhodes and Wurli programs on that ROM are my E Piano staples now.

"More tools than talent"

Motif ES7:Kurzweil PC1x:Electro 2 73:Nord Lead 3:MKS-80:Matrix 1000:Microwave XT

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The classic keys card is worth adding to the PC2R. With or without it there are a couple of things you can do to enhance the value of the PC2R. Find a Peavey PC1600x or other programmable slider box and set it up for 9 drawbars, and other sliders and buttons to turn on/off vibrato/chorus, overdrive, and other parameters. You can then send an organ into the XK-3's return and have separate C/V, screaming overdrive on the upper manual with none on the lower (all XK-3's l/m drawbars in) or just add in a little of the XK-3's l/m drawbars to dirty up the sound a little. Turn off the PC2R's Leslie sim and use the XK-3's digital Leslie or send to a real one. The PC2R's organs don't sound as good as the XK-3, but they sound better going through the XK-3 than they do going straight to an amp (IMO) and for chords etc. they work well. I picked one of the classic card presets, tweaked it and saved it. When I want to use the PC2R for a lower manual, I use that user preset and the PC1600x "drawbars".

 

Good Luck

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Originally posted by King Julien:

Is a newer version coming out i should wait for?

I doubt there will be a new version for the PC2 ROMs. I'd say get yours if you want the Classic Keys samples before it becomes really difficult to find.

 

On the other hand, don't buy it if you simply want to reprogram/improve the Rhodes and Wurly sounds and don't care much about the Hohner, RMI, CP-80, Mellotron and Solina sounds.

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I don't have a PC2, but I have a K2600 and a ME-1 (same samples and programs of the PC2, minus the organs and the effects).

 

I recently got the Vintage Keys ROM board for the K2600 (RMB4), which I'm told is very similar to the Classic Keys expansion for the PC series. If the RMB4 is of any indication, I'd say get it without esitation. Even if it uses the same Rhodes and Wurli samples, the programming is really exceptional; I find the Rhodes programs in the RMB4 clearly superior to the ME-1.

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Wow, Marino, I didn't realize that you also have a K2600. :)

 

I don't understand when some people try to match a particular patch to a particular style of music. I prefer to use whatever I think will sound good (texturewise) with the other instruments (and perhaps vocals). I also think it depends on the kind of mood I'm trying to set for a song.

 

For now, I like to use the Studio Piano, Jazz Organ, and Growling EP (basically a Rhodes with a little growl)--in that order--for most stuff. On the other hand, I am kind of looking for a decent Clavinet, Marimba, and maybe a Sitar patch.

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Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Originally posted by keyoctave:

Get it!! Well worth the price. :thu:

Yes. I agree. :cool:
agreed, just get it. I've never come across any poster who's had bad things to say about it.

Keys: Hammond SK2, Hammond SK1, Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Waldorf STVC

Amplification: Line6 L3T, Yamaha DBR-10, Presonus Air 10, Leslie 122V

 

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Thanks guys, I guess I'll just have to sneak it in the house somehow.

 

BTW, I'll have to get it via the US as even at the $159 price, it will work out about half what i would have to pay here.

 

JOhn

I like to move it, move it (except The Wurly which can be a bit temperamental and the 122 for obvious reasons)
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Originally posted by marino:

I don't have a PC2, but I have a K2600 and a ME-1 (same samples and programs of the PC2, minus the organs and the effects).

 

I recently got the Vintage Keys ROM board for the K2600 (RMB4), which I'm told is very similar to the Classic Keys expansion for the PC series. If the RMB4 is of any indication, I'd say get it without esitation. Even if it uses the same Rhodes and Wurli samples, the programming is really exceptional; I find the Rhodes programs in the RMB4 clearly superior to the ME-1.

+1

 

I also copped the RMB4 for my K2600. Bought it on a whim months after I purchased a Motif-ESR.....which I obtained largely for Rhodes.....and ended up liking the RMB4 better! As marino indicates, if the RMB4 is at all similar to the Vintage Keys ROM for the PC-2, I recommend it without reservation!

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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Originally posted by jook:

Aussie prices are damn ridiculous aren't they? (I'm in Sydney too).

 

Do let us know how you find the ROM when you get it. I've been wanting to compare its Rhodes and Wurlies with the Electro's for some time.

Yep. I paid AU$420 (from Hutchings). If I wanted them to install it would have been $500. Most of the stuff I buy these days is second hand.

Keys: Hammond SK2, Hammond SK1, Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Waldorf STVC

Amplification: Line6 L3T, Yamaha DBR-10, Presonus Air 10, Leslie 122V

 

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Originally posted by jook:

Aussie prices are damn ridiculous aren't they? (I'm in Sydney too).

 

Do let us know how you find the ROM when you get it. I've been wanting to compare its Rhodes and Wurlies with the Electro's for some time.

Yep. I paid AU$420 (from Hutchings). If I wanted them to install it would have been $500. Most of the stuff I buy these days is second hand.

 

I think the PC1x and maybe the newer PC2s comes with the Orchestral AND Classic Keys ROMs installed, so you might be able to walk into Hutchings and play it. Ring 'em first though cause I could be wrong or they could still have old stock.

Keys: Hammond SK2, Hammond SK1, Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Waldorf STVC

Amplification: Line6 L3T, Yamaha DBR-10, Presonus Air 10, Leslie 122V

 

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Best $100+ you'll ever spend on keyboard hardware, IMO.

 

The prices fluctuate with supply and demand. Kurzweil prices in general have been all over the map during their restructuring these past two years.

 

Part of it is simple supply and demand (prices go up when people get out of stock), but part of it is also Kurzweil trying to find the "right price" in today's market for five to eight year old technology.

 

To my ears it's still some of the best stuff out there, but people are trained to think that newer is always better, so there's a perception problem that they have to fight as they haven't developed new stuff in quite awhile (at least in terms of stuff that's actually gotten released and isn't a repackaging of old technology).

 

Although I seem to be the odd man out in finding the B3 organs a bit harsh on the PC2r, with the Classic Keys installed, it is unquestionably my go-to synth for electric pianos, clavinets, etc. Very ballsy, and all of the patches respond very well (and very organically) to velocity considering it's all sampled vs. modeled.

Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Hofner HCT-500/7, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari

Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold, G5422DC-12, T486, ES295, PM2, EXL1

XK1c, Voyager, Prophet XL

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Originally posted by Mark Schmieder:

...but part of it is also Kurzweil trying to find the "right price" in today's market...

We set our price at $299, and retailers have discounted it to whatever they feel they want to sell it for. We do not set MAP pricing on options, so some are making less money than others (some are losing money?!?) Whatever, we want to sell keyboards and rebuild our image as a company. Thank you guys for your support in that - we truly appreciate it!

ivorycj

 

Main stuff: Yamaha CP88 | Korg Kronos 2 73 | Kurzweil Forte 7 | 1898 Steinway I

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