SF audio Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 A little off topic, but I see other "off topic" stuff, so since I value the varied and unique opinions here, why not ask? I'm looking for a small to mid sized SUV. Two doors, two wheel drive, years 1998-2000. I want decent gas mileage so my support of terrorism will be minimal. :rolleyes: I'm considering a Nissan Pathfinder. I've heard that I should avoid American made SUV's. Want to spend around $10K to 12K. No, I don't have the cash for that, and I will be making payments, which will cut into my gear slut-itus. Of course, I would use this vehicle to haul around all my gear, so in that sense it's related to music. Do they make themed SUV's, like maybe something with guitar trim? :) OK, the far left Liberals can flame me know, while you hard right conservatives keep your flag waving to a minimum!!! :p The thoughts expressed in this post are the opinions of SF audio and MAY be used or misquoted anywhere you want, either in print,on the internet, or on the bathroom walls.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFOracle Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Not a Liberal or a Conservative here, but one question. Why an SUV to haul gear around? Unless it is an image thing, a mini-van is far more practical. More space, easier to load gear, seating for 7 when needed, better fuel mileage, safer in an accident, usually more standard features etc etc etc. With an SUV you give up an awefull lot to have a "cool ride". How much gear have you got? I would guess that a Passat or Volvo wagon would hold as much as a Pathfinder or Forunner. Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong: James Bryce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Get a Subaru Forester. It'll get better mileage and has pleny of storage space. Full-time AWD. Worst case scenario and you absolutely MUST have an SUV, get a Toyota RAV4. Or check out the Toyota Matrix. Is it a car? Is it an SUV? It's a STATION WAGON! Toyota's also coming out with the Scion (way cool) later this year. It's a wagon. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfur Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Depending on the amount of gear/personnel you are hauling the SUV might not be the most efficient choice. I've been through vans, trucks and SUV's over the years and I'm currently using a Volvo wagon that actually holds more gear than my Blazer (although a gig in ugly weather can call for the 4 X 4, but not too often - maybe 4 or 5 times a year for me). If it weren't for the snow situations I would lose the Blazer in a heartbeat. Of course YMMV! Best, Dogfur Woof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Well, Volvos aren't known for their gas preservation, unless it's a new model or something. As for SUVs, screw it...go with something they recommended. The Subaru is a great vehicle, I've heard...really conserves that gas. The Isizu Rodeo (when they were in kahootz with Honda) is a great ride, and can hold a good bit of stuff, not to mention the coolness factor will triple, cause you're essentially driving a Honda. If I had to choose something other than the Honda I've got right now, I'd go with a VW wagon of some sort...I've heard those are pretty tight as well. Just go with whatever you feel will suit you the best...as long as it's not a gas guzzler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I expect a beating for this but... Why not a US vehicle? All flag-waving aside, you can get a lot more for the money. My wife and I each bought new-used SUV's this year. Hers: 2000 Suzuki Grand Vitara manual with 45000 miles. Mine: 2000 Ford Explorer Automatic with 48000 miles. Both have V6, Air, Cruise, Windows, Locks, Remote, Anti-Theft, 4WD, AM/FM/CD. My Ford also included cassette deck, towing pkg, lighting pkg that lights up the outside of the vehicle when you unlock it by remote (thought it was stupid at first, now I like it), factory running boards, on-board computer, keyless entry, Auto or Manual 4WD, 75000 mile extended warranty, the top-end rims and new Goodyear tires. Both vehicles cost about $12K after negotiations. Now, without flag-waving, I really believe that most US built cars and trucks are now as good as their Japanese counterparts. I don't think that there have been significant reliability issues since the mid-80's when most American cars were well-known crap. This Explorer is my ninth Ford since 1987. My last one was a '97 Aerostar that I sold with 165000 miles on it. It was in the shop only once while I owned it for front suspension work. Before that, I had a '91 Aerostar with similar results. BTW, I agree that a mini-van is a lot better and more practical for hauling gear and people. I would have bought another Aerostar if they had not discontinued them. Our drummer's gig vehicle is an '85 GM Safari mini van with something like 350000 miles on it that is the original owner of. It's starting to fall apart now but he wants to wring every drop he can get out of it. So I wouldn't rule out a US built vehicle just because somebody you know has an out dated predjudice. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF audio Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 Thanks for the responses. I'm looking for a car that has space to haul equipmment, and is a comfortable ride (have had enough of the small, cramped cheap cars I used to own). It's gotta be somewhat short too, as I live in SF which parking is a nightmare. So a minivan may be a bit big. I don't want a pickup truck, so it seems that an SUV is a good choice for my wants/needs. A comfortable ride is important to me, as I used to drive for a living as a delivery driver and a taxi driver, so I get REALLY irritated :mad: on the road, and being comfortable eliviates that somewhat.... The thoughts expressed in this post are the opinions of SF audio and MAY be used or misquoted anywhere you want, either in print,on the internet, or on the bathroom walls.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Its a bit out of your price range (its new) but I really want to check out the Honda Element when it comes out: http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Element&BrowserDetected=True Butt-ugly, lots of interior space, inexpensive for a new car, good gas mileage, and you can rinse it out with a hose, what more can a musician ask for? :thu: Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Botch.: [b]Its a bit out of your price range (its new) but I really want to check out the Honda Element when it comes out: [url=http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Element&BrowserDetected=True]http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Element&BrowserDetected= True[/url] Butt-ugly, lots of interior space, inexpensive for a new car, good gas mileage, and you can rinse it out with a hose, what more can a musician ask for? :thu: [/b][/quote]I was at Home Depot last weekend and met a woman in the parking lot who had one. It IS butt-ugly. She really liked it though. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Mitsubishi Montero Sport. I don't know why...looks cool, and my friends who have them all like them. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfur Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b]Well, Volvos aren't known for their gas preservation, unless it's a new model or something. [/b][/quote]Yes, you are correct but its'not too bad. I picked up the '93 Volvo "brick" with 100K on it mostly because of cargo/longevity/cost. I am getting about 23-24 mpg on average, but carrying more gear than some mid size passenger type SUV's. It has been pretty comfy so far, but I do dig the Euro thing. Woof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 [quote] Now, without flag-waving, I really believe that most US built cars and trucks are now as good as their Japanese counterparts. I don't think that there have been significant reliability issues since the mid-80's when most American cars were well-known crap. This Explorer is my ninth Ford since 1987. My last one was a '97 Aerostar that I sold with 165000 miles on it. It was in the shop only once while I owned it for front suspension work. Before that, I had a '91 Aerostar with similar results. BTW, I agree that a mini-van is a lot better and more practical for hauling gear and people. I would have bought another Aerostar if they had not discontinued them. Our drummer's gig vehicle is an '85 GM Safari mini van with something like 350000 miles on it that is the original owner of. It's starting to fall apart now but he wants to wring every drop he can get out of it. So I wouldn't rule out a US built vehicle just because somebody you know has an out dated predjudice. [/quote]There's no such thing as a 100% US-built car any more. Increased globalization means that cars are amalgamated from parts sourced out around the world. My 2000 Honda was built in Canada using US parts and a Japanese engine. The same model car on the lot next to it was built in the US using Japanese parts and a Japanese engine. An Accord in the showroom at the same time was built in Japan using a US engine. Fords and GMs use a lot of foreign parts - especially from Mexico and Korea. Several Dodge models are rebranded Mitsubishis. All Chrysler Minivans are built in Canada and so is the Ford LTD/Mercury Grand Marquis. As for the quality of US cars, I disagree. In my job, I travel a lot and rent a lot of cars. A fully loaded Chrysler Concorde I drove was shoddy compared to my lowly Civic - the parts that made up the interior were cheap plastic and didn't fit together well. A Ford Escort was a total POS while a recent Cavalier was potentially the worst car I have had the misfortune of driving. Several Nissans and a Toyota have been uniformly excellent. The reality is that the "big three" still design cars with planned obsolescence. They want you to buy a new car every 4 years. Of course I did once see an '84 Ford Ranger with 900K miles on it. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny M Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 In my family's experience, Honda vehicles are smoothly engineered, efficient in their use of fuel and space, and last forever. -Danny Grace, Peace, V, and Hz, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Just say no to stupidity. There is zero reason for anyone to own an SUV, and it makes you look like a fool when you are driving one. 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Gabriel E.: [b]There's no such thing as a 100% US-built car any more. Increased globalization means that cars are amalgamated from parts sourced out around the world.[/b] You are absolutely correct. With the alliances and ownership of the various brand names, it's hard to tell who even builds the car any more, not to mention the source of the parts and the country of origin. All of the manufacturers OEM to some degree. Daewoo used to build Pontiacs. Suzuki and Toyota build Chevys, Ford and Mazda build each other, Isuzu builds Hondas etc, etc, etc... [b]As for the quality of US cars, I disagree. In my job, I travel a lot and rent a lot of cars. A fully loaded Chrysler Concorde I drove was shoddy compared to my lowly Civic - the parts that made up the interior were cheap plastic and didn't fit together well. A Ford Escort was a total POS while a recent Cavalier was potentially the worst car I have had the misfortune of driving. Several Nissans and a Toyota have been uniformly excellent. [/b][/quote]I have never owned a Chrysler product because I agree with you. I think they are for the most part pieces of shit and I shouldn't have included them in my statement about US made cars & trucks (of course, they are a German company now). I'm always intrigued by Chrysler owners; their cars always seem to be in the shop, pieces fall off at random but if you ask them how they like their car, it's "of I love it!". Can anybody explain this to me? I also used to travel a great deal and have rented a bunch of different cars. Hands down the worst new vehicle I ever rented was a Honda Passport. It was brand new with only 8 miles on it but rattled like crazy, handled like shit and the fit/finish was awful. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zeger Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by PBBPaul: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Botch.: [b]Its a bit out of your price range (its new) but I really want to check out the Honda Element when it comes out: [url=http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Element&BrowserDetected=True]http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Element&BrowserDetected= True[/url] Butt-ugly, lots of interior space, inexpensive for a new car, good gas mileage, and you can rinse it out with a hose, what more can a musician ask for? :thu: [/b][/quote]I was at Home Depot last weekend and met a woman in the parking lot who had one. It IS butt-ugly. She really liked it though.[/b][/quote]I think the design team at Honda looked at the Pontiac Aztek and thought "hmmm, can we make a vehicle even harder on the eyes?" The winner on "Survivor" gets a Pontiac Aztek. The loser gets 2 Azteks. If you really want a used SUV, be sure to check Edmunds.com and kbb.com for prices. The SUV depreciations have been severe on most models, which is good for you buying used. A minivan really is worth considering, though it has zero sex appeal. There are many available as program cars (1-3 year old used cars that came from fleets such as rentals). You'd get better mileage than a sport utility, room, usually lower maintainance costs than an SUV, and it's less likely to be stolen. Still, you'll be driving a minivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan O Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by SF audio: [b]Thanks for the responses. I'm looking for a car that has space to haul equipmment, and is a comfortable ride (have had enough of the small, cramped cheap cars I used to own). It's gotta be somewhat short too, as I live in SF which parking is a nightmare. So a minivan may be a bit big. I don't want a pickup truck, so it seems that an SUV is a good choice for my wants/needs. A comfortable ride is important to me, as I used to drive for a living as a delivery driver and a taxi driver, so I get REALLY irritated :mad: on the road, and being comfortable eliviates that somewhat....[/b][/quote]WOW ...interesting thread since I just bought a used 2000 Honda Passport w 31,000 miles . I even got 4.9% financing . If you want something small , I would recommend the Ford Explorer Sport . In your price range and comfortable to ride in . The Honda Passport I bought was a perfect fit for my needs and under $16,000 . Dano in Baltimore www.esnips.com/web/SongsfromDanO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowbell Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Hm, I guess I would have to recommend the Canyonero. Can you name the truck with four wheel drive, smells like a steak and seats thirty-five.. Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down, It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown! The Federal Highway comission has ruled the Canyonero unsafe for highway or city driving. Canyonero! 12 yards long, 2 lanes wide, 65 tons of American Pride! Top of the line in utility sports, Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts! Canyonero! She blinds everybody with her super high beams, She's a squirrel crushing, deer smacking, driving machine! Drive Canyonero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Danny M: [b]In my family's experience, Honda vehicles are smoothly engineered, efficient in their use of fuel and space, and last forever. -Danny[/b][/quote]Word up! I love my Honda...an 86 Prelude. Needs a little work, but runs great and is fast as a bullet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Danny M: In my family's experience, Honda vehicles are smoothly engineered, efficient in their use of fuel and space, and last forever. -Danny -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Word up! I love my Honda...an 86 Prelude. Needs a little work, but runs great and is fast as a bullet! [/quote]Decided on a Honda a couple of years back because I saw so many really old Hondas all over the place. Lots from the mid-80s still on the road. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanmass Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I recently bought a Saturn VUE, Fwd, 5 speed. Gets decent mileage, very roomy for the size, and it will tow my dirt bike and haul my kids and or my gear. With power windows/doors/cruise/cd, 19,300 including tax, 60 month no interest.... Very happy with it. I am averaging just under 23 mpg. I do mostly city driving. Unless you are paying cash, I am betting the payment on a VUE would be less than an older Nissan. Those are nice, but they tend to be pricey used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Gabriel E.: [b] [quote] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Danny M: In my family's experience, Honda vehicles are smoothly engineered, efficient in their use of fuel and space, and last forever. -Danny -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Word up! I love my Honda...an 86 Prelude. Needs a little work, but runs great and is fast as a bullet! [/quote]Decided on a Honda a couple of years back because I saw so many really old Hondas all over the place. Lots from the mid-80s still on the road.[/b][/quote]Yeah they are. I've talked to several people who've had Prelude's from the same time as mine, and they are all running great. And deanmass, you're only getting 23 mpg? That sucks, man. I get at least 30, I'm sure. And with a 15 gallon tank, you know I go a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanmass Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Bigger motor, better towing, more room....I love Honda's...I also own an accord, but the CRV is too small for me. My last 4 cars have been Civic, Civic Si, Accord and VUE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny M Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Sal ©: [b]Just say no to stupidity. There is zero reason for anyone to own an SUV, and it makes you look like a fool when you are driving one. 'nuff said.[/b][/quote]The last time I checked, even a relatively modest PA (like the one I use for a worship team) will not fit in the trunk of a regular car. You might be able to stuff it into a wagon, but you run the risk of not being able to see anything except for a 180 degree area, facing forward. So, you see, there are reasons for people to own SUV's. (Although, there is a big difference between a Honda CR-V, like I use, and one of Ford's asphalt-based aircraft carrie- I mean Excursions. :D ) -Danny Grace, Peace, V, and Hz, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeton Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 actually a lot of what you describe: good mileage hauling equipment 2WD $12K A small pickup truck with a cap on it would fit the bill rather nicely. You could even buy new, if not one a couple of years old. You can choose any model you wish- ford, chevy, dodge, toyota, nissan, mazda etc. I'll recommend toyota, ford/mazda, nissan.... in that order. btw, if i may say, all this "buy american vs. import" is such crass. Toyotas are made in Tennesee, the Mazdas are built in the Ford plant in Michigan, Nissans are built in SoCal (iirc). Isuzus are built in Mexico along with a number of Chevrolet products (like the S-10, and they are *all* assembled from parts made all over the world. so plblbllblblb! Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper . WWND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thrashole Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Just to weigh in with a little hands on experience. I used to be a mechanic in a honda dealer. The accord,civic,prelude etc are all very reliable cars. The engineering is simple and elegant. They would be even better if people would get thier valves adjusted at least every 30,000 miles so the damn things would quit ticking. Anyway, the passports were the biggest turd that honda ever laid. none of the Mechanics wanted to touch them. They are impossible to work on and for some reason when they have problems it seems to snowball into other systems. Chrysler products have cheap rattling plastic inside but they run about as well as everything else. Honda,toyota, and subaru seem to be the top of the pile in terms of reliability but the fords and GM's are much better than they used to be. Hell, if you want to complain about cheap interiors check out a two or three year old BMW. The interior parts seem to shrink or something. They rattle like crazy. Reach out and grab a clue. Something Vicious My solo crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I'll give you a good reason to NOT to buy an SUV. Do a web search for: SUV roll over, and tell me if you still want one. The Montero has this problem really bad. I saw the test done on TV and it went up on two wheels almost every time it took a sharp turn on the obstacle course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick K. Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Dittos on the Explorer Sports. I've had two that have been wonderful. Both 2wd, 5 spd manual, pretty loaded. I leased both of them and had dirt cheap payments. Never had a problem with either of them. Both had Firestones, too! Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by thrashole369: [b]Just to weigh in with a little hands on experience. I used to be a mechanic in a honda dealer. The accord,civic,prelude etc are all very reliable cars. The engineering is simple and elegant. They would be even better if people would get thier valves adjusted at least every 30,000 miles so the damn things would quit ticking. Anyway, the passports were the biggest turd that honda ever laid. none of the Mechanics wanted to touch them. They are impossible to work on and for some reason when they have problems it seems to snowball into other systems. Chrysler products have cheap rattling plastic inside but they run about as well as everything else. Honda,toyota, and subaru seem to be the top of the pile in terms of reliability but the fords and GM's are much better than they used to be. Hell, if you want to complain about cheap interiors check out a two or three year old BMW. The interior parts seem to shrink or something. They rattle like crazy.[/b][/quote]Nothing like the voice of real experience, thanks for posting, Thrashole! :thu: Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick K. Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 See, I thought the Passports were really Isuzus. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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