Respect Herbie always - but isnt this Sh!t??

[cheezeejazz]

http://www.dailymotion.com/popular/alternativa/video/1017

 

Sorry not to start a debate here but I've lways given Herbie Hancock loads of respect, he has done a shed load of different things and been around for a while...but his playin on this is completely unforgivable!

 

I recently got his new album (the one with different pop stars) and whilst some of the arrangements are good, his playing is generally very forgettable, and he only plays the piano parts, other people do the keyboards - why when he is the supposed god of synth?!

 

Just my two cents anyway!

 

Pete

[Billdar]

Cheeseejazz,

 

That's a very old video, by the way.

 

Regardless, I think Herbie has earned the right to do 'bout whatever he pleases, music-wise. He inspired me back in the 1960's and he still does today.

 

I dug his playing on that video. That's just my opinion! I do respect yours, and I'm not about to try to change it. There's room for us both!

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Bridog6996]

After opening up that video and seeing Herbie walk out with the keytar, I was thinking "Oh Lord...here we go..." After listening to it, though, I think "unforgivable" is a pretty extreme description. Would I have rather heard him playing piano or Rhodes? You betcha, but despite the keytar, he still played some pretty interesting stuff. Did you watch it all the way to the end? He was playing some pretty nasty (meaning good) licks. I might add that Herbie and Chick are the ONLY two players in the entire world that should legally be allowed to pick up a keytar. However, that doesn't mean that they SHOULD.

 

I love Herbie's playing, but I'll be the first to admit that I find some of his musical choices over the years somewhat...questionable. But it's a free country and he does what he wants.

[Jazzwee]

What exactly did you guys not like about what he was playing?

[linwood]

He could fart on a record and I would say it's the best I've ever heard.

[Bridog6996]

I didn't find anything wrong with his playing. Like I said, he tore it up. But if it was me, the keytar certainly wouldn't have been my instrument of choice. That's all I'm saying.

 

BTW, you gotta love the young, mulleted Bill Evans!

[D_dup3]

I dunno...everybody's got a right to be disapointed in their heroes I suppose but contingent to that "right" is the idea that there's some real legit disappointment...& possibly the justification that their abilities have failed them.

 

This in a general way reminds me of those (& not just music fans but even pro musicians) who chastised Miles Davis at times for his choices, whether to opt for electric ensembles or to record pop tunes.

Sometimes it seems to me that people want artists to remain in a certain territory or else they lose credibility but I've never seen any justifiable rules for corraling art, especially in music where, we must remember, the real primary goal is to connect with people.

Not to pander but to connect in a way that touches them & perhaps brings them into something new ...& it doesn't always have to be "giant steps".

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by cheezeejazz:

...but his playin on this is completely unforgivable!

I truly am curious. Keytar aside.

[Michelle ggurl]

You know, it's funny, on Santana fan boards this same discussion has popped every time he's released his last 3 CDs, all the "walk on and play somone else's song" formula. I read an article -- it was either an interview of Carlos or Herbie, don't remember which, where in print one of them recounted Herbie going to Carlos for advice on how to do this sort of project (man, my mind is going).

 

All Santana's die-hard fans want him to release another Welcome or Caravanserai.

 

I've only heard one song off Herbie's "Possibilities", the one with John Mayer. I thought it was pretty cool ... what happens with CDs like this is, Hancock and Santana become stylists ... their flavor, something distilled about their style, is added to various tracks. In this case, I heard Herbie's undeniable feel. That dude is funky and tasty in a hallmark way that is uniquely him. And it came through.

 

With Santana CDs in this vein, I generally think the songs come off better individually than when played back to back across the entire CD. Is this the case with Herbie's? Could it be a Herbie fan would like it a whole lot better if the CD was in random shuffle mode with a bunch of other CDs, and a song from it came on once in a while? I'm a Herbie fan, I just haven't gotten this CD yet ...

[InfoSal]

What? It's OK if he plays some synth sitting down but if he is standing it's unforgiveable? Please explain that.

[cheezeejazz]

Aw I feel really bad now for slating the video...I will listen again to see if I was being rash, but I just remember all the ideas seemingly really disjointed and not working too well together.

 

Also I remember the sound he's using being really clunky, and maybe that didn't help the ideas come accross as it seemed to have no finesse like he does when I nails the piano.

 

The album he's recently done is really good don't get me wrong...just don't quite understand why he'd ever want someone else doing all the funky clav parts on his tracks when arranged it so could probably do it better, on most of the tracks if not all.

 

The john mayer track is REALLY good, as well as one with Johnny Lang and Christina Aguilera

 

Pete

[InfoSal]

What do you expect, like Miles he's trying to make a buck by appealing to the more common tastes. He's playing that tired Headhunters stuff, which is overrated and often boring, so maybe that's what your getting.

[Jeep]

cheezeejazz,

no need to back off on your observation.

Your premise is correct.

This is a rare example of Herbie blowing chunks.

[Phred]

I was not a fan of that - love Herbie, but not that stuff. Hated the sounds, hated the licks, and especially hated the sound.

[Calumet]

I think the lines he and Evans were playing were very nicely outside.

 

Any opinions about what they were thinking harmonically?

[Steve Nathan]

The horror......

Jeeeze that was awful! Maybe even worse than that dual masturbation fest with Christina Agulara on the Grammy broadcast. Run for your lives...

Steve Nathan

[InfoSal]

Yeah the sound is cheesy, but then Herbie is no conisiour of sounds. He has not used a real Rhodes in years and prefers playing those EVP88 Logic fake Rhodes.

[InfoSal]

No, Herbie plays a Steinway Grand with Agular. And he plays some fine licks that trump any player here.

[Mr. Nightime]

Originally posted by Steve Nathan:

The horror......

Jeeeze that was awful! Maybe even worse than that dual masturbation fest with Christina Agulara on the Grammy broadcast. Run for your lives...

Steve Nathan

[Clarke Wyvill]

I dug it, it seemed like he missed his cue in the begining (hardware problem?) But a keytar Vs. A sax is just badass IMHO. Would have been better sitting down, but it's nice to see his runs from that angle.

 

~C

[zeronyne]

First thing, what is it with you guys and the "keytar"? (I hate that term). That's a Lync LN4...it's just a controller. If you hate the sound, blame it on the DX7s that it was MIDIed to.

 

Context, gentlemen, context. This must have been the late 80s/very early nineties (BTW, Daryl Jones has ages well, I'd say).

 

So is it the actual playing that was bad? I don't think it was his best effort, but I think we've praised playing by other players that was much worse than this, haven't we?

[Phred]

Some of the chord stabs reminded me of my 2 year old daughter "playing" the piano. 2:40 - 2:50 for example.

[DafDuc]

Originally posted by geekgurl:

All Santana's die-hard fans want him to release another Welcome

And is that so wrong?

 

[Bobsk8]

When all the people complaining about Herbie's playing can play 1/100th as good as Herbie can, I will listen to what they are saying. Until then, it's alot of hot air in my opinion.

[Billdar]

Y'all critics need to post a video of your playing.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Jazzwee]

What I'm trying to get at is this:

 

Was it unforgivable/awful/... because he was playing "outside"? Was it too outside for you?

 

(and of course consider 'context' with respect to other aspects of the playing since this is an old video).

[Steve Nathan]

 

When all the people complaining about Herbie's playing can play 1/100th as good as Herbie can, I will listen to what they are saying. Until then, it's alot of hot air in my opinion.

 

Y'all critics need to post a video of your playing.

My Herbie, right or wrong!

C'mon Nobody's great 100% of the time, and besides this is more about choices than talent, and in this (and the Grammys) case, he made choices that didn't live up to his more commonly displayed greatness.

Steve Nathan

[Phred]

My Herbie, right or wrong!

C'mon Nobody's great 100% of the time, and besides this is more about choices than talent, and in this (and the Grammys) case, he made choices that didn't live up to his more commonly displayed greatness.

Agreed... Herbie is a hell of a player - I can not play 100th as well as him. I am aware that he can smoke Chameleon - I have heard him do it. However, he did not smoke it then.

 

Was the playing too outside for me? Hell yeah. I got the feeling he was trying to play crazy atonal stuff to see if the fans cared - they didn't.

[Bridog6996]

I'll agree that I've heard much better out of Herbie, but I for one was not knocking his playing in my earlier post. I've just never been much of a synth person really. I simply would have enjoyed seeing/hearing Herb rip on piano or Rhodes much more. Plus, controller or not, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously when they're holding a keytar.

 

Like Mr. Nathan said, this is about choices, not talent. Herbie's one of the most talented musicians around. I just have no interest in hearing him (or anyone else for that matter) play "Rockit," synth solos on a keytar, or duets with Christina Aguilera. Personal preference.

[musicalaccents]

Okay, this thread is ridiculous. The people who are dissing Herbie obviously doesn't have half of his records. I thought the CD "Possibilities" was genious. Yeah, maybe he's not "shreadding the keyboard" with extremely advanced musical colors like on Gershwin's World or lighting up the funk torch. However, the genious is the marketing & exposure that this gives to the public. Hell, because of this CD, Herbie played at the Grammies...plus, he played his runs totally different live then on the CD. Another thing: I hadn't heard of Raul Mindon. Wow, what an incredible arrangement of "I just called to say I love you" that was. And Sister Moon with Sting...man, just hearing his voice with Herbie and that badass vamp ending was killer. I was dissapointed that I didn't get to hear Trey Anastacio play the style that I used to him playing...but then after listening to Gelo Na Montanha several times, I've come to appreciate his ballad playing very much.

You can't expect Herbie to mimick previous projects or to stay with one style for very long. He is as innovative as a musician that this world has ever seen. For example, take his Grammy award winning "Dis is Da Drum"...one of the coolest fusion of styles I've ever heard. Then, several years later, he puts out "Gershwins World"...the opposite as far as styles are concerned, but he still was able to fuse so many styles and make it his own.

Herbie is a spokesman for Jazz...not traditional jazz, not Fusion Jazz, not Bebop Jazz...but Jazz in general. He enimates what jazz truly is...an undefined art with infinite directions & dimensions. One question: Who else from the fifties, or even the sixties, has sustained the level of greatness that Herbie has? I'm talking about in all music genres. Chick is one of my favs...he's taking jazz to incredible levels that noone else will. But Herbie has fused commercialism into his music without coping out or getting away from his brillance.