Identity Crisis

[MidLifeCrisis]

Ok guys, Ive got a bit of an identity crisis going on (as opposed to a midlife one).

 

Here is my problem which I need some advice on.

 

I have played rock for over 30 years. It is what I love. It is what I grew up listening to. My primary band is a 60s classic rock gig.

When I was out of work for a while this fall I did some country gigs as a hired gun to make some extra money. Now it turns out I am in high demand on the country circuit. Everyone loves my playing. My friends, family and members of my rock band swear I am a much better player when I play with country guys. My rock band members have even gone so far as accusing me of holding back when I play with them.

What gives? Why am I such a hot country commodity? It is driving me nuts.

Here are the possible theories I have come up with:

a) Country music is easier to play, therefore easier to excel at

b) In my rock band I am competing against Marshalls and bashing drums so its hard for me to stick out

c) I am playing with better musicians (mostly studio guys) in the country band and that brings out the best of me

d) The rock keyboard players I have grown up admiring and studying basically suck so I am emulating their suckiness

 

I have no idea what is going on but it has been eating at me that my country playing seems to outshine my rock playing.

[Billdar]

Steve,

 

I think it is a combination of A, B, and C, but not D.

 

Plus: You've played rock for so long, and probably the same songs for all of these years, that you are bored and becoming a bit stale. Country is new territory, and the musicians that you play with are good. That has to perk you up some, I would think, and naturally that would be reflected in your playing.

 

I'd say roll with it and enjoy.....and maybe talk your rock buddies into doing something with a country flavor now and then.

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

 

www.61bealestreet.com

[Sven Golly]

Steve:

 

Having walked a slightly similar path over the last couple of years, I'd agree with Bill that it's a new challenge and new/better players that are spurring you on to play better/fresher.

 

When I sat in with my "New Country" project, I had to develop a whole new sensibility, and fill a vastly different role than in my previous rock gigs. A lot more prominent parts, quality piano and organ licks, and (gasp!) actual solos that feature as prominently as guitar solos!

 

Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

 

Cheers,

SG

[Trill]

Steve, to me the country licks seem to flow easier also.Probaly because my dad used to listen to Jimmy Swaggart everday when I was growing up Spare the jokes, he can play a good piano. He had his stereo in his bedroom and just wore out thos albums. But I know he used to listen to his cousin Jerry Lee and Elvis before he converted

 

Not that I ever aspired to be a country player,yet if you hear me play there will be a lot of gospel and country type riffs mixed in. I don't guess I'll ever escape it. Its ingrained I guess,I like to think its just part of my style . I say roll with it,especially if you enjoy it. And I would agree that better players leave more space.

 

Greg

[ITGITC]

Dude...

 

Roll with it.

[ITGITC]

Dude...

 

Double Post.

[Prague]

IMHO, most rock keyboards of the 60s were pretty lame. You can't polish a turd. It didn't really get impressive until the 70s.

 

Country piano players (and pickers) have been blazing for decades.

 

What 60s rock are you talking about? It may just be the keyboard content of the music.

[kad]

Originally posted by Prague:

IMHO, most rock keyboards of the 60s were pretty lame.

True, but there were exceptions here and there. I thought Argent did some nice stuff with the Zombies...

[Unsound Practices]

Midlife,

 

Perhaps it is a good time to refresh the setlist in your rock band... and it sounds like they may support that. I've gone from being able to sit out half the set at the bar because 'keys were not prominent, to now never getting a break and greatly improving my chops. The basic genre didn't change (classic rock/party rock) but some cuts and additions to the set list have made my life much more interesting. Get the guys in the rock band to understand there is more to rock than guitars and give you some space .

[kanker.]

Umm, Gas - we need to talk about your new avatar. It has to go. The last one was the keeper.

 

 

MidLife - Music's music, it's all good, and playing with polished cats will inevitably raise your game if you have any sort of awareness. The main thing is, what will you take from the gig to enhance/expand your rock playing? This is the best reason to play a variety of styles, they all can teach you so much about the other, and influence your playing in the other styles. It's a win/win situation.

[marino]

Hey Midlife,

 

It seems to me that the real question is not much if one genre of music is more or less valid of another and why; the problem is, you are offered better jobs for doing something that you like less. Is that correct?

 

If I were you, and if the initial question is correct, I would ask myself a few things:

 

- Do I enjoy myself while playing country, even though it's not my favorite genre, or am I uncomfortable, and wish to be somewhere else?

 

- Do I need the country jobs to support myself and my family?

 

- If I devote myself to country music for a while, do I have some time left to play other things?

 

- How much do I enjoy to be around the country guys? What about the rock guys?

 

 

As for me: I stopped, at different times, at least a couple of raising careers (theatre musician and pop arranger), because they were taking all my time, and neither was what I really wanted to do. I stayed for four or five years in each, so I'd say that I gave them a good try.

 

Once, I asked Joe Zawinul for advice about decisions for the future, and he told me something I'll never forget. He said, "It's very simple: You have just one life, so you have to decide what's most important to you, and just do that. If you do otherwise, you'll regret it forever".

 

That said - strange as may seem, my advice is to take the country jobs, and do that for a while. If they are higher profile things than what you're doing right now, you never know what they can lead to in terms of connections and future opportunities. And if after a while nothing has happened, and you are feeling frustrated, you can always quit.

 

Please pardon my English... it's *very* late here.

[Mr. Nightime]

I worked on the road in a country band for 8 years before I got into playing blues and classic rock. Much of the playing is very simple, very straightforward, very clean. Southern Rock has its roots in Country. There were some extrordinary players in country, and they were featured in the mix. You could actually hear what they were playing. I personally don't care much for Country anymore (8 years of road stories lead up to it), but once in a while it's nice to just relax and play that style. I'm not talking Floyd Kramer, I'm talking Pig Robbins.

A while back I was playing at a blues jam, and the sax player granted a request for Tuff, by Ace Cannon. Very simple song, slow mellow shuffle. He gave me a solo, and I went to my country roots, playing strictly major licks, with no blues inflections, lots of hammer-ons in the Pig Robbins style. Just following the melody. Afterward, he came to me and said that was the best solo he had ever heard on the song, because it was treated with reverance, not with disdain.

Steve, if you're having fun playing the country stuff, and it's helping out your rock playing, go for it, man. I find that when I do a Motown gig now and then, I get better all aroung because it's a different approach. You're probably experiencing the same thing.

 

Hey Greg

Don't worry about any Jimmy Swaggart jokes. Mickey Gilley once said that of the three cousins from Farraday, LA, Mickey, Jimmy, and Jerry Lee, Jimmie swaggart was the best piano player of the three.

[MidLifeCrisis]

Thanks for the comments guys, lots to think about. The big thing I appreciate from you all said was that this was a positive thing. I was looking at it as a negative.

My feelings were hurt because I have spent most of my life crafting my rock licks. Nobody raves about my playing. Sure I get a comment once in a while from fellow musicians and my bandmates acknowledge when I do something very hot. But I never get the type of accolades I am getting from the country guys.

Some things I have thought about from your posts.

First, I have been playing the same tunes forver. I do the traditional Hush, Gimme some lovin, White Shade, etc. etal, ad infinitum stuff we all have played a zillion times.

Second, since I was brought in as a hired gun expected to hit the floor running, I spent 6 yo 8 hours on each of the new tunes getting my parts perfect and finding the right patches to fit the desired sound.

Third, it is so refreshing to play with guys who dont have volume problems. I had my volume set to 1 the other night and I could hear myself clear as a bell. It is amazing when you can hear everyone in the band and hear everything you play.

I really dig having you guys here to bounce my ideas off of. My takeaway from this is to refresh my rock set list with stuff that will stretch me some more. Also need to really push the volume issue. If the rock guys dont want to adopt a fresh attitude than I may become a full time country guy. It certainly is paying better right now.

[Dave Pierce]

Steve,

 

I'll make three comments:

 

* I always play better with better musicians

 

* If your rock band doesn't leave sonic space for you, you may have outgrown that band

 

* Today's country is Southern Rock.

 

--Dave

[David Loving]

Yes, I'd just go with it and see what happens. Sounds like a chance to grow a little. Good luck with it.

[Prague]

Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis:

I have been playing the same tunes forver. I do the traditional Hush, Gimme some lovin, White Shade, etc. etal, ad infinitum stuff we all have played a zillion times.

Right. Nothing there really screams keyboards. Just chuck the boring keyboard songs and replace them with songs that ARE for keyboards. The whole band's setlist doesn't need to change right away.

 

Are you pretty much just piano and organ all night? Find some new tunes with new sounds, if possible.

[Trill]

You know Steve you bring up a lot of good points ,

one is that people play entirely to loud sometimes and it ruins all the dynamics, and two is We often end up playing things we never intended to play.

 

I never really wanted to play older dance/classic rock type songs or cover songs. But I really enjoy all the things I have learned. and the guys I play with thier fun and pros.(also low decibel dudes).

They basically help me thru the tough spots.

I've learned horn parts (Zoot Suit Riot, Vehicle), synth parts,clav parts, organ parts. learning things like the organ solo on Oye Como Va is a blast. or Billy Prestons solo on Get Back

You name it . it has been great for my playing

and I certainly would have missed out if I took my old attitude into the situation.

 

Greg

[BluesKeys]

I may find myself in a situation in the near future where I am playing in a band with better musicians doing music I don't particularly like. I look at it as more exposure to better musicians, and a chance to add a different genre of music to my bag of tricks. It looks like I can keep what I am doing which I enjoy and just add this to the mix.

 

I think you get better when you have to study a style of music and that is bound to show when you play any style.

 

Good luck...

 

and Gas bring back Eva

[alfonso]

...don't ask what can your country music do for you, but what can you do for your country music.....hu...I've heard that thing somewhere....

 

out of jokes, I want just say that you are probably appreciated in your country playing because of your broader background and your creativity, bringing something more than strictly "native" country players usually do, while you are not so creative in the rock situation where everything is a repetition....the music might evolve in something really new now, think of it.

 

Just speculations, but this comes to my mind.

[MidLifeCrisis]

Originally posted by alfonso:

you are probably appreciated in your country playing because of your broader background and your creativity, bringing something more that strictly "native" country players usually do, while you are not so creative in the rock situation where everything is a repetition

Thats an outstanding observation. Having not been a regular country player, I was never introduced to what the standard country licks are. So I bring my bag of tricks to the table. This new uniqueness and freshness may be one of the appealing factors.

[Garrafon]

Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis:

Originally posted by alfonso:

you are probably appreciated in your country playing because of your broader background and your creativity, bringing something more that strictly "native" country players usually do, while you are not so creative in the rock situation where everything is a repetition

Thats an outstanding observation. Having not been a regular country player, I was never introduced to what the standard country licks are. So I bring my bag of tricks to the table. This new uniqueness and freshness may be one of the appealing factors.

I second this one. One of my favorite things to do in my current band is to introduce a new song that maybe one or two of us have ever even heard before and make everyone else come up with their own parts (and not let them here the original). That way, we are forced to put our own "touch" on the tunes and I think it keeps things more interesting. When you aren't working from within preconceived notions, you are freer to do what you will, what you want, and bring out what you are best at.

[Blue JC]

Playing with better musicians usually means that no one is hiding behind volume and there's a lot more respect for improvisation than just "playing the parts."

 

Like many here, I did the "human jukebox" thing too. I've played everything from big-band jazz to heavy metal. At this stage in my life, roots music (blues and country) and the ability to improvise within that structure is more satisfying to me.

 

Sounds like it could be for you too MidLife. If it feels good, do it and don't worry about the labels.

 

Best,

JC

[Steve Nathan]

I surely didn't intend to get caught in here, but your post caught my eye and I though t I'd add my 2cents.

Within reason (and keeping food on the table) you should always strive to play whatever kind of music makes you happiest, and that may always be "rock", but try not to dismiss another genre without a true examination of it's merits.

Country music is easier to play poorly than rock, but there may be an apples/oranges factor here. Try looking deeper to what truly resonates for country musicians. Where rock is often (not always) "more about the math" (licks, speed,volume, competition), country is more about the feeling. At it's best it is deeply heartfelt and moving, closer to blues than any other artform I'm aware of.

And it is still made in a collaborative manner, where 6-8 musicians all go into a room at the same time and listen to each other, reacting and creating as a group. We don't read someone else's notes off of a page, we are the creative force in the room, inventing licks, parts, arrangements, styles as we go, and I believe you can hear that freedom in the final recording in a way that is often missing from today's pop/rock/hip hop recordings.

I came to play country after many formative years playing rock and blues. I was not very good at it at first, but soon learned that it is way way deeper than it appears to the casual listener.

If it feels good, it is good.

Thanks for the rant space,

Steve Nathan

[Mr. Nightime]

Rock and country have many of the same roots. While the black men and women from the Mississippi delta made their form of blues the poor white men and women in the hills of Arkansas, Tennesee, and Kentuky made theirform of blues as well, just with different instrumentation. You listen to Hank Williams Sr. and you can hear that he was the blues just as much as Robert Johnson, just with steel guitar and fiddle as opposed to electric guitar and piano. Jazz had its counterpart in Western Swing. There is a parallel between the forms of music. Once the barriers are knocked down between the cultures that gave birth to the musical genres the similarities become even more prevalant. Much of what is considered Country today would have been considered Rock 20 years ago.

[SilverDragonSoun]

Having a somewhat direct correlational situation a few years back I can share my own experiences

 

A is absolutely true.

B is true as well. Guitarist and vocalist are the main focus in most rock bands. In a country band, there seems to be more of a blend.

C this definately makes a difference and would in fact be true with just about any ohter style of music

d Way too hard on yourself. Country may have forced your outside your comfort zone and that combined with playing with better musicians my be raising the bar.

[MidLifeCrisis]

Originally posted by theprez:

but try not to dismiss another genre without a true examination of it's merits.

Country music is easier to play poorly than rock,

Hope nobody thought I was trying to dismiss country as a "lower" form of music. Part of my list of reasons was more sarcastic than anything.

I have found the guys I have been playing with to be some outstanding musicians, much better than I play with on rock on a regular basis. The music is certainly different in that it is more about the story being told. The music reflects that story. While recording with an original artists the players all wanted to hear what she envisioned in her head when she wrote the song so they could apply their parts accordingly.

Much of rock is based around the lick and the hook and the lyrics are an afterthought.

I surely don't want to start a country vs rock battle. I am a rock lover in my heart but have really enjoyed the country scene recently. It is good to extend my horizons. Hopefully I haven't offended anyone.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis:

Hope nobody thought I was trying to dismiss country as a "lower" form of music.

Steve... Dude...

 

I don't think of country music as a lower form of music.

 

As I was trying to point out to Dick Ward in a previous thread. He likes Heavy Metal. I got no problem with that.

 

Why?

 

Because music speaks to all of us on an individual basis. Your reasons for choosing the music that you enjoy pertain to you and your life experiences, right?

 

Damn those who think they have the right to judge whether the music I prefer is right or wrong.

 

I have heard some hot country musicians, and played with a few. Same goes for blues, bluegrass, classical, jazz, etc.

 

I don't know rap and I don't know heavy metal. So I'll be the first to tell you that I won't judge that music. I have no experience whatsoever in those categories. Don't know the mind and the heart that sings rap and heavy metal. How can I form an opinion if I've never shared those experiences? Well, I can't and I won't.

 

The Keyboard Corner is a great place because people from all over come here to enjoy talking with others about music. I try hard to keep an open mind because I'll be the first to admit, I don't know everything.

 

So bring it on. Teach me something. This forum has the best cost/benefit ratio anywhere. I can't think of another place I'd rather be when I've got a free moment than to check in with you guys, crack a few jokes, and exchange ideas about music and the things that musicians think about.

 

And Dick Ward - I don't care if you don't like Steely Dan. I do hope that you will keep an open mind about various types of music though. Because it originates from somebody's heart and mind. And the more you try to reach out and understand other people, the better off you're going to be. Rock on, Dude.

 

Tom

Is There Gas In The Car?

[Steve Nathan]

I didn't mean to start a country vs. rock battle either. I simply meant to suggest that country has more going on than meets the casual ear. Your experience will be more rewarding if you "play up" to it, rather than look down on it.

In the end, you will only be a broader, deeper player.

Have fun,

Steve Nathan

[Pursuitboy]

Umm, Gas - we need to talk about your new avatar. It has to go.

 

Whats wrong with Tom's Avatar? She ain't going to like that

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f241/pursuitboy/03.jpg

[ITGITC]

Alright Gary, are you talking about Eva or Jessica?

 

Now I can't be pleasin' all da people, all da time. I'm not gonna try.

 

So if you don't like the avatar, you can just go back to your 'sticky pages' in your library with the porcelain throne.