Other 60's hits with that 'Louie Louie' beat?

[Jazz+]

Hey old timers, I am doing a bit of research into 60's pop. "Louie Louie" used that sort of 'cha cha' Latin beat like "duh duh duh, duh duh" and so did Paul Revere and The Raiders' "Just Like Me". Can you think of any other 60's hit that used that beat?

[Tom Fiala]

"Wild thing"

 

"Hang on Sloopy"

[zeronyne]

Originally posted by Tom Fiala:

"Wild thing"

 

"Hang on Sloopy"

They used similar changes, but the beat was different.

[cnegrad]

Y'know that Joe Zawinul created this beat....

[cnegrad]

Double post.

[Tom Fiala]

Fair enough, zeronyne.

 

What suggestions have you got?

[Marzzz]

"Can't Explain" by The Who

[coyote]

"Plastic People" by Zappa

 

(yeah I know, too easy lol)

[I I mjrn]

Haven't thought of one yet but I'd like to point out the close resemblance between the rhythm you cite & what's called the "Bo Diddley beat". The "Louie, Louie" beat could basically, perhaps, be considered a simplification of the other (even though there's a definite "latin" feel to the original Richard Berry track.

 

BTW, while I doubt you want us to start shooting down the offerings of others (too much sidereal debate), does that Who song, "I Can't Explain" really fit the bill?

[Michelle ggurl]

Originally posted by Jazz+:

Hey old timers, I am doing a bit of research into 60's pop. "Louie Louie" used that sort of 'cha cha' Latin beat like "duh duh duh, duh duh" ...

Can be called a cha cha beat? When I think of cha cha in pop context, I think of Santana's "Oye Como Va" (which is also a '60s hit, isn't it? ); that keyboard pattern is right on the clave. Wouldn't "Louie Louie" be more a "four on the floor" based beat rather than clave? Unless I'm missing something??

[Phred]

I aggree with Geekgurl about cha cha being oye como va...

 

When I think of louie louie I think: accents on 1 and 2, the eigth between 3/4 and 4.

 

1+2+3+4+

X-X--XX

 

(Although it has been a while and I might be mixing it up with Wild thing).

 

That being assumed, somes that always had the same feel as this are for me:

 

Gloria

Green Onions

Wild thing

 

I imagine I could be way off the mark... Haven't heard Louie louie in a while and just going from memory

 

(Edited to fixed the formatting of my beats)

[Bill H.]

A lot of songs used the basic idea, but with variations so as to not sound identical. Most everyone's suggestions were probably inspired by "Louie Louie"...here's another..."Dirty Water" (The Standells)..."Louie Louie" as a shuffle.

 

Here's another example of a catchy riff recycled into other hits but with slight variations...

 

"Sunshine Of Your Love" (Cream)...morphed into

"Hello I Love You" (Doors)...morphed into

"In A Gadda Da Vida" (Iron Butterfly)

 

And the list goes on...when I first heard Boston's "More Than A Feeling" on the radio in the 70's my first thought was "OMG...Louie Louie all dressed up!"

[shniggens]

Originally posted by coyote:

"Plastic People" by Zappa

 

(yeah I know, too easy lol)

Also "Magic Fingers" by Zappa.

[I I mjrn]

Interestingly, I heard "Wild Thang" last night.

It's actually a reversal of the "L,L" beat, i.e., the second, two beat part happens first, followed by the 3 beat segment---kinda like reversing the clave.

[Jazz+]

"Just Like Me" (same exact beat as Louie Louie)

by Paul Revere & The Raiders (wild!)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004HYL3/qid=1101165824/sr =2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/103-4349973-8626251

 

"Louie Louie"

by The Kingsmen

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001ZT1N/qid=1101165770/sr =2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/103-4349973-8626251

 

"Wild Thing" (it's the same beat as Louie, difference is a quarter note on beat one instead of two eighths)

by The Troggs

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/d etail/-/B000002V8F/qid=1101165696/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-4349973-8626251?v=glance&s=music&n=507846

[paully]

One of the great live 'club' songs of all time:

'Hang on Sloopy'-McCoys

[I I mjrn]

Jazz+, I guess everyone hears different things in music & it's hard to illustrate them in a non-notation format but I differ w/your statements on songs that sound like "L,L".

The PR&R song, definitely is not "exact same beat" & "Wild Thing" is closer but different, in that it reverses the order of the two segments, which are not exactly the same but similar.

 

Using the 1e+a method most drummers use to count 16ths & bold-face to indicate hits, here's :

 

"Louie, L"

4/4 [1 + 2 (3)+ 4 / (rpt)]

[3 strong beats followed by 2]

 

"Wild Thing"

4/4/ [1 2 (3)+ 4 + / (rpt)]

[2 beats followed by 3]

 

"Just Like Me"

4/4 [1 + (2)+ (3 4) +/ (rpt) ]

[something else, still][sEE LATER POST]

 

Looking at it, that still doesn't look very clear but, except for the parenthetic numbers (there to indicate placemarks for the "+" signs), it does represent where the rhythmic accents occur in each song.

 

It might be your intent just to look for songs that have similar, simple beat patterns but these aren't all "the same".

[DafDuc]

C'mon, guys, no one remembers Beg Borrow and Steal?

 

Zillions of garage bands played this lick by mistake when they were trying to play Louie Louie, cos they were too dim to figure out LL had a Vmin instead of a Vmaj. BB&S is exactly a I-IV-V version of Louie Louie.

 

Tommy Roe's "Dizzy" came awful close to charting the same territory, but got real creative about key changes.

 

Daf

[I I mjrn]

Originally posted by DafDuc:

...cos they were too dim to figure out LL had a Vmin instead of a Vmaj...

Actual "Louie X 2" is a [i IV I7 IV] progression.

The apparent mV is a misinterpretation from the organ on the Kingsmens version.

Playing a prominent 5th & b7th under the I7 chord gave many the impression that it was a V chord...but it's not.

The original bears this out.

[DafDuc]

I've tried it both ways - Vm sounds way closer to the record. To my ears. Or ear - just working with one now.

 

However I'll admit to playing the wrong chords for about 2 years on Sun Goddess before finally working with a bassist who had them right. So my ear(s) ain't magic (even if they are better than my hands ). But in THAT case, it was also instantly obvious she was right. I still hear a Vm every time I hear the Kingsmen.

 

She did the same thing to me on Peg (but bassline, not chords). And man, you shoulda heard her rip up "Reach For It."

 

Damn I miss her.

[I I mjrn]

Originally posted by DafDuc:

I've tried it both ways - Vm sounds way closer to the record...

That's because you're listening (I'd wager) to that keyboard-heavy Kingsmen version.

The original Richard Berry sheet music has it as I described.

[DafDuc]

Aah- I get it now.

 

[Bill H.]

All of us up here in the Pacific Northwest...Kingsmen included...learned "Louie Louie" from the Wailers (not the Bob Marley Wailers... there was a Tacoma Washington band with the same name in the late 50's - early 60's) which used the minor five chord. These guys played all over the PNW and had a regional hit with it on Etiquette Records featuring Rockin' Robin Roberts on lead vocals. It's a slammin' version and my favorite. I think minor five is the way to go...it's the way most people are used to hearing it. I'm 57 and was definitely around back then BTW...

[stoo schultz]

There are about 100 versions of Louie Louie recorded by everybody from Barry White to the Flaming Sideburns . . . . the rhythm ranges from punk to calypso and everything in between.

 

As for that chord, I'd say about half of the recordings I've heard use the major V and close to the other half use the minor V, including the Kingsmen's version. Very few actually use I7, among them Toots and the Maytals' version, which is a kick a$$ reggae version of the tune. You haven't heard that song until you hear T&M playing it.

 

I've never heard the original recording by the Pharoahs . . . I dunno if it's even available on CD. Has anybody here heard it?

 

A very similar tune is Chuck Berry's Havana Moon, which is a wonderful song, similar lyrics with a Jamaican feel.

[I I mjrn]

At risk of beating the horse (last mention, I promise), the "Vm" is actually a partial harmony [5th & b7] of the I chord that gained greater prominence through, as DafDuc put it about some other garage musos, mis-hearing the changes on the crappy 45rpm singles they studied

I think it's good to know that & consider it when extrapolating but, anyhow, one of the good things about music is that it can be reharmonized in many ways something that's done often to greater classics than "L,L".

 

Back to the search for songs of rhythmic similarity...?

[Jazz+]

Are you sure about that rhythm on "Just Like Me"? I hear it as the same beat as Louie Louie, especialy during the guitar solo, no?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004HYL3/qid=1101324172/sr =2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/103-4349973-8626251

 

For Louie Louie I prefer the v minor because it sounds bluesier and therefore more soulful to me. Especialy if you brush the #4 as a grace note as you lay into the v minor. And another thing, the minor 3rd of the v- chord is the b7 of the blues scale.

 

Louie Louie progression in G (originaly in A):

 

G (root position below middle C)

C (2nd inversion)

D- (second inversion)(C# grace note into D note)

C (2nd iversion)

[I I mjrn]

The PR&R song's rhythm ["Just Like Me"] I cited is how it sounds to me, J+, at least re: the main pulse.[sEE LATER POST] Whether it may cha-cha-change in sections doesn't seem the point but...

As far as the 'L,L" chords, there's no point debating it. The original music is I-IV-I7-IV but people can play what they want anytime; sometimes it's better, sometimes not. Music is about personal taste, after all.

[stoo schultz]

On the duh duh duh . . . duh duh riff in Louie Louie: Richard Berry got this beat verbatim from the intro of a Cuban calypso tune by Rene Touzet called El Loco Cha Cha.

 

Interestingly, in El Loco Cha Cha, the chords are I IV V IV. The V is used, not the I7 or Vmin. The rhythm section in this intro is exactly Louie Louie, except the V replaces the I7. So you could say that Richard Berry took the intro of El Loco Cha Cha, replaced the V with an I7, added slightly altered lyrics of Chuck Berry's Havana Moon, to get Louie Louie.

 

This same progression (I IV V IV) is all over the place in Mexican-Cuban harocho music, that first crossed over into the U.S. in Ritchie Valens' La Bamba. The Stones play these chords over a "one, two, cha cha cha" beat in Get Off My Cloud. Lots of other rock tunes use these chords as folks have mentioned in this thread.

 

So one could argue that the "original original" chord that inspired Louie Louie was a V, ultimately from Mexican harocho music. Why Berry changed it to a I7 I guess we'll never know, maybe to give it a bluesy flavor. But most bands that cover this tune play a V or Vmin. Pretty much all Latin versions of LL use the V, and they all sound like La Bamba or harocho music.

 

The only 60s rock tunes where you can find that exact "duh duh duh . . . duh duh" riff that I know of are LL, Just Like Me, and Hang on Sloopy (the sax section plays the riff in Sloopy), though a lot of other tunes come real close.

[I I mjrn]

I'm here first of all to apologize to Jazz+ because I finally actually heard the version of "Just Like Me" that he's been citing & it is indeed "Just Like Louie, Louie" & not how I measured it.

All I can say is that I was going on my memory of how my junior high school band played it (yes, even Black kids played rock &/or roll) & we had a tendency to funk it up a bit. I think we thought it sounded more suggestive to insert that pause at the second beat.

Anyhow, I was definitely wrong & I apologize to J+ all for my misperception.

 

I'd also like to add another song to the list, although it resembles "Wild Thang" rather than "L,L". "It's Alright" by JJ Jackson has a basic, guitar driven feel that matches the reverse-"L,L" rhythm of the Troggs's song.

 

Finally, a question: I think of the cha-cha, frequently cited as a source for the rhythm in question here, as [1 2 3+ 4]. Doesn't that make it more like "Wild Thing" than "Louie X 2" ?

[stoo schultz]

Finally, a question: I think of the cha-cha, frequently cited as a source for the rhythm in question here, as [1 2 3+ 4]. Doesn't that make it more like "Wild Thing" than "Louie X 2" ?

Yep, you're right about that. But LL was based not on a cha cha tune, but on a calypso tune whose intro had a reversed cha cha beat, hence its name "El Loco Cha Cha." So Louie Louie is a crazy cha cha, with the cha cha beat reversed and a little syncopated.

 

It's interesting that the big dance craze before the twist was the "chalypso", a mix of cha cha and calypso that kids on American Bandstand made up. This craze spawned a bunch of "chalypso" songs, including "El Loco Cha Cha."