Magpel Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Yeah, I saw her performance last night during a break in the football game. I thought the singing was real, though maybe bolstered by recorded tracks. And D is right; it wasn't very good. Her pitch was...vague, her phrasing uninspired. But at least it was real Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 How many more people watched some or all of that "awards" show because she was going to perform on it? How many people will watch the Today show because she will be interviewed by Katie Couric on it? How will her record sales be affected by the unfortunate event on SNL? How many more people will watch SNL to see if it happens again to some other performer / to see how SNL makes fun of it? How many more people will go to her next concert to see if she lip-syncs than will not go because she might? Seems like everybody involved wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meccajay Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 SNL.. Whatever happened to the legacy forged by the golden performances of artists like a young Prince w/ Andre Cymone performing Party Up, or Mark King & Level 42 rockin' some nasty british funk? *sighs* TROLL . . . ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by JMcS: How many people will watch the Today show because she will be interviewed by Katie Couric on it? .I purposely turned the channel before she came on this morning. I really wasn't interested in hearing her "Spin". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by hermanjoe: The only person in this thread I wouldn't want to work with is *you*, Hermanjoe, for your condenscension, your sarcasm, and your holier-than-thou attitude, which essentially boils down to the fact that you're a "Jazz Player" so it's beneath you to have an opinion about pop music. The bottom line is what you're sticking up for is not a musician who put on a bad show, but a fraud who was rightfully exposed to the light of day. There's nothing negative about that; it's good and just. Wow. And I thought I was being nice...You were being nice. I'll probably be the only guy in this thread to chime in on your side, but I kind of feel sorry for the girl. Look, I'm not defending her. I think the whole canned pop music thing pretty much sucks, and I really hate lip-syncing. But let's face it -- this isn't new or shocking. And, do we really expect a pre-packaged teenage girl to have the emotional fortitude to defy the management that's making her a star? Or the experience and poise to handle such a difficult and embarrassing stage situation? Sure, it would be really cool if she did have all that, but not having it doesn't make her some kind of horrible pariah. She's just another bratty little punk kid. They're not that hard to find, guys. Now, if you want to talk about the record companies and manager who have made pop music into what it is today, that's a whole 'nother story. --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockitman Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I remember looking forward to watching SNL because we knew that whoever the act was on the show, it was gonna be live. They were the last bastion of live music on tv. Alas, their standards and greed have lowered them to the lowest common denominator, the almighty dollar. Eat shit and die Lorne Michaels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 The band, the drummer, a computer glitch, acid reflux, overstrained vocals. You have to admire the level of complexity that a bad liar can generate within a few days' time. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daBowsa Posted October 27, 2004 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by cnegrad: dabowsa, I think you're a bit naive. There is no integrity on television. SNL is just another product, just like the "teeny boppers" you complain about. Here's a little insight into SNL's so called "integrity": Months ago, after years of excellent playing, SNL fired most of their regular horn players because they were told that they didn't look young enough. So please don't look for integrity there.I don't think I'm being naive - one of my favorite activities is the "are they lip-syncing?" game. Be it SNL, awards shows, or whatever, I'm fully aware that the mega-bosses of the industry don't want to take the risk. ZZ Top at the Superbowl was perhaps one of my bigger disapointments and an eyeopener for me that just about anyone can be a sellout. My point was just that we should cry for live music on SNL - just maybe we'd get it again. Originally posted by Rockitman: I remember looking forward to watching SNL because we knew that whoever the act was on the show, it was gonna be live. They were the last bastion of live music on tv. Alas, their standards and greed have lowered them to the lowest common denominator, the almighty dollar. Eat shit and die Lorne Michaels.Well said, I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammondhack Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Wow! Here it is Tuesday, and I just heard about this! God, I'm out of it! For comparison's sake, I remember when Elvis Costello was on SNL, many years ago. The band started a song (don't remember which), played about 2 bars of the intro, then Costello turned around waving his arms and said "Stop, stop!" The band came to an unexpected, screeching stop and he yelled "Radio, radio!", at which point the band immediately cranked up with ee ee ee -- EE EE EE EE EE EE EE - right into it, no hesitation at all. It sure looked to me as if it was a complete surprise to the band, but they pulled it off beautifully: no syching there! The story I heard was that SNL didn't want him to play that: something about "I want to bite the hand that feeds me" sort of thing, but he played it anyway(!) Maybe those more knowledgable on this board can shed more light on that story. A little different than this week's incident! Hack "He who draws the most amps wins" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by Dan South: The band, the drummer, a computer glitch, acid reflux, overstrained vocals.Shades of "wardrobe malfunction". I could care less about a teeny-popper. I expect ALL of them to use canned vocals, minimally. The only thing that bothered me was her inability to play it off well, and the relentless finger-pointing and inability to own up after the fact. I have never, ever run off a stage. When I was about her age, I was playing a gig and the other guitar player had tuned to the bassist... before the bass player had tuned. He was exactly a step and a semitone off. There was no way to fix it by transposing. He played his solo, valiantly trying to move tuning pegs while performing, to no avail. Finally, with a touching and highly amusing gesture of defeat, he crouched down and hid behind his amp for the rest of the song. The audience thought it was hilarious. We grinned, let him tune, and went on with the show. This is the life of being an entertainer (which, for those who can't make the distinction, is an entirely different thing than being a musician). - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoo schultz Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Shades of "wardrobe malfunction". More like a talent malfunction . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
area51recording Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I don't watch SNL much these days, but in times past it seemed to me that the bands sounded like they pretty much got a "line check and away we go!" kind of setup from the tech staff...because of that it seemed to me that if a band sounded good to great on SNL you were probably listening to some truly talented people. Conversely a lot of bands that are more or less a studio creation (or worse, maybe the guys didn't even play on the album, as we live in the age of the non-disclosure agreement)run the risk of sounding like crap on the show. I think it's just a sign of the times we live in, and simply about commerce. SNL isn't about to say to Ashlee/Jessica/Britney or whoever the 14 year old flavor of the week happens to be, "Sorry but if you're going to appear on the show you have to sing live". Yeah it sucks but ultimately they are trying to keep the lights on and the doors open as well and they aren't about to miss out on all that$$$. That's the reality as I see it, and even tho it's kinda sad I guess that's the way of the world now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magician Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I guess I am not as offended by lip synching, sequences and tracks and such as I am about her walking off of the stage. Even some of the greatest bands use tracks to double parts or even fit in whole parts of songs. Its just an item in the toolbox to me. The lack of professionalism and artistic integrity shown by her walking off of the stage is where I lose it. I have been a part of many a "train wreck" in the 18 years I have been playing music, but I have yet to storm off the stage and let the audience down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliengroover Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Yeah, to me the walking off was the problem. I would have gained the utmost respect for her if she (and the band) laughed it off, stopped, did a quick little count off, and dove right into the correct song, "hoarse" voice and all. Dancing around like a (insert profanity here) and then walking around was disrespectful to her band and, ultimately, her fans. Eh...like most, I never liked her anyway. Peace If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanjoe Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 riginally posted by hermanjoe: quote: The only person in this thread I wouldn't want to work with is *you*, Hermanjoe, for your condenscension, your sarcasm, and your holier-than-thou attitude, which essentially boils down to the fact that you're a "Jazz Player" so it's beneath you to have an opinion about pop music. The bottom line is what you're sticking up for is not a musician who put on a bad show, but a fraud who was rightfully exposed to the light of day. There's nothing negative about that; it's good and just. Wow. And I thought I was being nice... You were being nice. I'll probably be the only guy in this thread to chime in on your side, but I kind of feel sorry for the girl. Look, I'm not defending her. I think the whole canned pop music thing pretty much sucks, and I really hate lip-syncing. But let's face it -- this isn't new or shocking. And, do we really expect a pre-packaged teenage girl to have the emotional fortitude to defy the management that's making her a star? Or the experience and poise to handle such a difficult and embarrassing stage situation? Sure, it would be really cool if she did have all that, but not having it doesn't make her some kind of horrible pariah. She's just another bratty little punk kid. They're not that hard to find, guys. Now, if you want to talk about the record companies and manager who have made pop music into what it is today, that's a whole 'nother story. --Dave Thanks Dave. its nice to see someone can at least understand where I'm coming from. By the way, to everyone who is passionate about this subject: I respect what you guys have to say, thats why I'm on this forum, but I think one thing we can realize is that theres not one right answer inside music or the music buisness for that matter. Its very subjective and a matter of taste. I try not to let myself get bent out of shape abiout things that are not an immediate threat to my life. The fact that Ashley can't sing is too bad, but honestly I don't care. I didn't buy her record yet, plus it made for a little piece of SNL blooper history for us all to laugh at. Anyway my point is I don't think this subject has one right answer, and I promised to never fake play the keyboards at any live performance Tom "Learn the changes, then forget them." -Charlie Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I think that if you want to have a separate conversation about how the younger generation may or may not have the skills to perform live, that's fine. Or about how the record companies have marginalized everything to the point where most people no longer care whether an artist lip-syncs or not, and that lip-syncing takes place far more often than it should. But I think that those of you who are offended and/or upset and shocked about this whole thing really need a dose of reality. All of this "audio slight-of-hand" is very commonplace these days, and in popular music society has accepted it. Ashlee & SNL will continue to make money, and this will all be forgotten before you know it. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by mojazz: Here's her response on the incident (from IMDb). Sounds like alot of BS spin, but the damage is already done... while she initially blamed her band for the incident, she now writes on her website that her voice was overworked. Overworked? more like underachieving... Originally posted by mojazz: A statement from Simpson's record label blamed a "computer glitch" which triggered "a cut from her album" to play instead of a drum cue.Ah, so the backtrack consists of her entire album, arranged in a non-practical way?!? Originally posted by mojazz: The blunder has been all the more embarrassing for Simpson, because she recently expressed her disapproval of lip-syncing in an interview with Lucky magazine, explaining, "I'm totally against it and offended by it. I'm going to let my real talent show, not just stand there and dance around. Personally, I'd never lip- sync. It's just not me." Well, now we all know why she doesn´t want to dance around. Her real talent? I guess that´s being Jessica´s little sister... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManInTheBox Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I'd like to know who produced her album, and what that says about his professional integrity? Is it her voice at least, or did they have to get a sub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3keys Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resigned Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 The most surprising thing about all of this is that it's STILL in the news four days later! I mean mainstream news. In that regard it is similar to the Janet Jackson Super Bowl incident. Speaking of which, anyone remember when Janet Jackson wanted to lip-sync her "live" concerts because her stage dancing was so demanding (she said)? Promoters starting canceling her shows and Janet shelved the idea permanently. I wonder if we'll see similar repercussions with this new Simpson incident? With shows like SNL coming out with new rules against using prerecorded tracks and concert promoters being more particular about it too? I'll bet we do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by C J: I'd like to know who produced her album, and what that says about his professional integrity? CJ, You mean to tell me that if a label approached you with $50,000 to produce an artist, you'd turn it down if you had to some autotuning on the lead vocalist? That's all we're really talking about here anyway. Ashlee can sing ok, but I guess they used the tracks as a crutch. I've seen tons of other "pop artists" do the same thing, even when they can sing ok. They just sing along with the lead vocal; sort of as a double track. (It's not as if it was J-Lo or Enrique Iglesias who couldn't sing if a gun was held to their heads.) Wake up y'all; this is commonplace, everyday stuff in the music biz! Integrity? In the music business? C'mon now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by C J: I'd like to know who produced her album, and what that says about his professional integrity? CJ, You mean to tell me that if a label approached you with $50,000 to produce an artist, you'd turn it down if you had to do some autotuning on the lead vocalist? That's all we're really talking about here anyway. Ashlee can sing ok, but I guess they used the tracks as a crutch. I've seen tons of other "pop artists" do the same thing, even when they can sing ok. They just sing along with the lead vocal; sort of as a double track. (It's not as if it was J-Lo or Enrique Iglesias who couldn't sing if a gun was held to their heads.) Wake up y'all; this is commonplace, everyday stuff in the music biz! Integrity? In the music business? C'mon now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Again, watch out for confusing the music business with the entertainment business. They rarely cross paths. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Jeff, You mean there's a difference? Explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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