POLL: Are things getting better, or are they getting worse?

[Jotown]

Henry Robinett wrote: [quote]And although I'm with you Jotown 100% about art and it's value and importance to society, it's going to have to take a lot more than a couple of great songs to turn this boat around. It's a little too late for that now. Maybe the 60s, but not now. I don't mean to be dramtic and all doom and gloom. I don't think the end of the world is at hand or anything like that. It just feels like we're on the Titanic and everyone's in their own little cubicles drinking beer and masterbating to Playboy. Oblivious. [/quote]Agreed, but I am not talking just about a couple of songs, I am talking about the intention behind all that you do. One of the reasons that so many people are, as you say "in their own little cubicles drinking beer and masterbating to Playboy. Oblivious." is because people feel that they are on the Titanic, and there is nothing else they can do about the current conditions, so they surrender to their apathy and give up hope. There is much in the world that is out of my control, but the one thing that I can always control, is my own conciousness, and intention. As artists we are often in front of many people, and we influence those people, not so much by preaching to them, but by the integrity of our intentions. That is our power, that is what we can control. Those of us who can see how jacked up things are have a responsibility to use our power in the areas we can control to effect change. If we can't do that.... whats the point of living? If I felt I had no control or power to effect change, I would just hang in own little cubicle drinking beer and masterbating to Playboy. Oblivious. :eek:

[Salyphus]

[quote]Originally posted by O' Little Jotown Of Bethlehem: [b] If I felt I had no control or power to effect change, I would just hang in own little cubicle drinking beer and masterbating to Playboy. Oblivious. :eek: [/b][/quote]Hey, can you pass that one over here when you're done with it? :p

[Jotown]

I gotta warn ya' some of the pages are stuck together. Apathy will do that, ya' know?

[Salyphus]

That's OK, I only read the articles.

[realtrance]

I'm one of those gloomy, literate types henry was praising a little while ago... and I can't help but chime in at this point: it's _masturbating_, not _masterbating_. Sheesh. I gave up long ago, 'round about 1980 ('round about midnight). It was pretty bad then; it's worse now. rt

[Magpel]

Yeah, but Last of The Mohicans is a terrible book... I'm half with Henry and half agin him, and have been for about twenty years of thinking on this subject. On the one hand, the classical education you mourn the passing of depends upon a consensus, i.e., a canon, that is more or less dominant and definitive. We just don't have that anymore. In education, we lose the power of a rich, deep, and consistent body of truth and knowledge and we gain...what? Inclusivity? When I was teaching, there was a reversal, a highly disputed reveral of the direction in which education floweth. Instead of initiating students into the rigorous communities of higher learning, the educational establishment started to move its boundaries and standards toward the level of its students. Education, it was posited, was a negotiation, not an initiation. Some people blame the whole phenomenon on the City College of New York, the first open admissions university in the country, and maybe the world. Well, I know Henry is more griping about a culture-wide case of a-motivational syndrome (a real DSM diagnosis by the way). And I can't argue with that 'cause I'm one them. 40 years old, shabbily educated, dilletantish, and still uncertain what I wanna be when I grow up. Inflicted with a tragic and self-defeating sense of melancholy that seems present at the DNA level. Hell, I was full of regret when I was 15. That's no way to be. I read something inspiring the other day, though. It was written in the context of marriage/sex/relationship therapy, but seemed to me to extend well beyond that. A famous shrink wrote that one of the consequences of the culture of childhood trauma is that we relinquish the poissibility of heroic action in the present, because we must constantly be fighting or negotitating with the past. Yeah. Henceforth, I'm all about heroic action in the present. Things are getting better.

[Wow]

[quote]quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by C.M.: Bunny, HALF of my income goes to the gov.. This is NOT an exaggeration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's before you get your refund, right? -------------------- -Bunny K. [/quote]What refund are you referring to? The small business owner is getting soaked. How is your mix going?

[Bunny Knutson]

Man, C.M., that SUCKS! I think you should look for a better accountant. That can make all the difference in the world. Our tax accountant is expensive, but she saves us ten times what she costs. :thu: My mix is sounding GREAT. I'm having a ball mixing this tune. I'm almost ready to start on a drastic remix. How's your mix going?

[Jotown]

[quote]the consequences of the culture of childhood trauma is that we relinquish the poissibility of heroic action in the present, because we must constantly be fighting or negotitating with the past. Yeah. Henceforth, I'm all about heroic action in the present. Things are getting better. [/quote][b]Heroic action.[/b] That is exactly what I am talking about.

[Wow]

Bunny, Did you stick with the original drums? cm

[Bunny Knutson]

C.M., we would be "thread crapping" if we were to continue this conversation here in this thread, since our topic is OT to the OT. So, check your PMs. --- Oops, I forgot you can't accept PMs. You should turn that feature on now, since we're not doing as many political threads lately. ;) So, I'll email you with a response to your question about the SSS Mixing Event. Or, we could continue this conversation in the proper thread, if you prefer (SSS Mixing Event thread). Party on, Garth.

[Wow]

Your right, my bad. :freak:

[Salyphus]

What an upset! After a near landslide in favor of 'better' in the first day of voting, 'worse' has come up from behind and edged out a victory, or so it seems! Better 48% (30) Worse 52% (33) I guess things ARE getting worse :D

[Bunny Knutson]

Ya know what? This thread has DEFINITELY served a purpose. It has made me change my mind. I am now convinced that things are, in fact, getting much worse. There are too many intelligent, respected people here who subscribe to this theory for me to rebut it any longer. I concur that things are MOST ASSUREDLY getting WORSE. :(

[Nawledge]

at least now that we've admitted it we can start to turn it around.

[nursers]

better, definitely better

[alcohol_]

henryrobbinet wrote: "It was far more than 1% who were educated. I think what has fucked us up are the psychologists who said, "You must not be hard on Johnny. You might hurt his feelings for life if you tell him he's doing something wrong." Well hell, if Johnny can't do something tell him he can't do it and demand he learn how. We're helping create a bunch of lame ass, do nothing, know nothing imbeciles." This is so true. There are many things we need to learn that we have no inclination or motivation to learn. We learn them despite ourselves. The attitude towards self motivation for education and the attitude that expects painless learning isn't working. The French, who instituted the first mandatory public education system in Europe had the saying that "children were educated in spite of themselves." That understanding needs to come back in a 21st Century understanding. Things are getting worse for many people though. The proliferation of consumption items is not a substitute for the ability to own one's home and have a fairly secure and stable home-life. At one time the willingness to work hard in the USA meant you could enjoy the American Dream of home ownership and freedom from poverty. The opposite situation is developing where even advanced education is unlikely to provide the means to own your own piece of the rock, never mind the willingness to work hard. The deck is being stacked for the well to do. There used to be a feeling of brotherhood and looking out for each other in the USA, that's now been replaced with a getting your own social Darwin attitude. Contrary to Libertarian theory, we as a people are not better off but are impoverished. Also with the harm human cause the environment, we are poisoning ourselves. Scientist now say that at the end of this century all the glaciers will have melted, which are a main source of fresh water. We're generating our own hell on earth as we build fortresses to protect us from our destruction of the environment instead of understanding and adapting to the environment which is really paradise compared to anything we can build.

[alcohol_]

[quote]Originally posted by alcohol_: [b]henryrobbinet wrote: "It was far more than 1% who were educated. I think what has fucked us up are the psychologists who said, "You must not be hard on Johnny. You might hurt his feelings for life if you tell him he's doing something wrong." Well hell, if Johnny can't do something tell him he can't do it and demand he learn how. We're helping create a bunch of lame ass, do nothing, know nothing imbeciles." This is so true. There are many things we need to learn that we have no inclination or motivation to learn. We learn them despite ourselves. The attitude towards self motivation for education and the attitude that expects painless learning isn't working. The French, who instituted the first mandatory public education system in Europe had the saying that "children were educated in spite of themselves." That understanding needs to come back in a 21st Century understanding. Things are getting worse for many people though. The proliferation of consumption items is not a substitute for the ability to own one's home and have a fairly secure and stable home-life. At one time the willingness to work hard in the USA meant you could enjoy the American Dream of home ownership and freedom from poverty. The opposite situation is developing where even advanced education is unlikely to provide the means to own your own piece of the rock, never mind the willingness to work hard. The deck is being stacked for the well to do. There used to be a feeling of brotherhood and looking out for each other in the USA, that's now been replaced with a getting your own social Darwin attitude. Contrary to Libertarian theory, we as a people are not better off but are impoverished. Also with the harm humans cause the environment, we are poisoning ourselves. Scientist now say that at the end of this century all the glaciers will have melted, which are a main source of fresh water. We're generating our own hell on earth as we build fortresses to protect us from our destruction of the environment instead of understanding and adapting to the environment which is really paradise compared to anything we can build.[/b][/quote]