Do you play your best music completely sober?

[Magpel]

No, Botch, it's the beer and drugs. They tell you what to play. All my best ideas are simple transcription from a hops muse. You don't know this because you live in Utah, where they don't let you have real beer, a man's beer.

 

What you say is true, of course. But I also think that your choice of "un-inhibitant," be it natural and healthy or chemical and carcinogenic, imparts a color, a trace, to the creativity it enables. So, while it will be different for each user, there *is* an LSD sound, a heroin sound, a whiskey sound, and certainly a yoga sound and a prayer sound. Or maybe not. Hard to say.

[Superbobus]

I've only said blaming drugs or alchohol on bad playing is lame...unless you really do have a problem with those substances. I don't play well DRUNK or so high that I can't walk...almost no one does.

Well, this tape I made is proof that drugs and booze will influence cats who can't handle it. I guess we don't have an argument. The situation is just different when I would say "I played like shit because I was high". The tape was just a test like "Hey, let's see what happens on the recording when we start drinking and smoking". Your last statement is interesting. Almost no one? Relatively yes, but from the ones that were "famous" or whatever I only want to mention Fats Waller, Art Tatum, Billy Holiday, Ben Webster, Charlie Parker, Art Pepper, Chet Baker, Miles Davis, Bill Evans, John Coltrane, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Eric Clapton, The Police (watch their live concerts, it's hilarious how uptight they are!) and I guess some more. And they were playing the heck out of music. Nobody can deny that music and drugs do have some kind of connection, either you like or you hate it, but saying "Bird used heroine so I will too", (and I know some cats who said that!) now that's lame...

[Steve LeBlanc]

Well then we agree...damn I need to learn to speak Dutch I guess

[Superbobus]

Yeah, and we have the coolest drug policy for musicians!

[seclusion]

Yep lookin down at the fret board as I'm soloing away on a tune and noticing in slow motion that opps I'm a fret out where I begin the run. Sorta laughin and lookin down and I'm still wrong.

The worst is, it's video taped. I wish it was aimed at me... A classic "If you don't study" this is where you'll be in 5 years story.

Good thing was that we all were in a competition to see how loud we could play so it isn't totally clear that it was just me screwin up... Gawd it sounded so bad..

Bri

[Graham English]

It's true that weed or booze can help take the edge off and relax. But, deep breathing can do it cheaper, faster, and with no health risks. In fact, deep breathing directly benefits your health! Also, visualization can relax you, benefit your health and help you earn MORE MONEY!

Hmmmm

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by Krakit:

As for my own experience, I've played with people that claim that smoking pot or getting drunk makes them play better. Either they all really suck to begin with or they're wrong.

 

Claim being the operaive word.

 

I once had the interesting experience of playing tennis drunk. It was a regularly scheduled game with a friend and my sister had had a birthday party just before.

 

I have never felt so confident and in control on a tennis court in my life! I still don't understand why it ended up 6-0 6-0 against.

[RABid]

I know quite a few talented musicians who cannot get jobs in bands because they drink or take drugs, then sound bad on stage. I don't know anyone that works because they can handle their vice while on the job. I know a few that manage to keep their jobs, but it does not make them better at it.

 

Robert

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Great thread...and always a polarizing topic for us musician types.

 

I separate this topic into two areas: composing and performing. Still to this day, I seem more productive writing new original material when I'm a little high. And like always, my playing level drops way down if there's ANY alcohol involved. I usually try to be cold sober -- not even one beer -- when I do gigs. And when I get high before playing live, I get pretty self-conscious..it does NOT take the edge off for me...rather the opposite. However, I will, sometimes, smoke some ganj before doing some solos or whatnot in the studio...it's the creativity thing again.

 

I played a few songs unexpectedly at a party last weekend. Since I wasn't planning on playing (or driving, for that matter), I was rather drunk, and it really showed. I never want to do that if I can help it. Yes, I sucked. Yes, it was embarassing.

 

But I'm sorry: not all people who have a moderate use of drugs are necessarily losers, as has been quoted earlier. I really dislike those broad, sweeping generalizations of people...they're never accurate.

 

Perhaps more accurate would be that people who use drugs have a higher propensity toward being a loser than those who don't. However, I know plenty of sober losers, by the way. I won't force my values on people either way; the only time I intervene is when someone close to me is putting themselves in extreme peril through self-destructive behavior. Usually the drugs and alcohol are only one symptom of this.

 

- Jeff

[Botch.]

Originally posted by Byrdman:

I once had the interesting experience of playing tennis drunk. It was a regularly scheduled game with a friend and my sister had had a birthday party just before.

 

I have never felt so confident and in control on a tennis court in my life! I still don't understand why it ended up 6-0 6-0 against.

How eloquently spoken! ROTFLMAO!!

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

I separate this topic into two areas: composing and performing.

Good point. Years ago, when I used to smoke ganj, it seems I used to compose more. These days, I'm straighter, but I compose less. I suppose it also might have something to do with age, but I'm not sure.

 

Another point: the drug laws, especially in the States, are totally insane. All drugs should be legal. Yes, including the hard stuff. Drug abuse should be treated as a health problem, not as a criminal problem. And why penalize people for selling drugs? Selling is the American way, it's a capitalist system, remember? Sellers are not "worse" than users, they are simply capitalists. Selling to children, or giving drugs to children? Ok, that's wrong. But look at alcohol as a model for how this should work: make it legal for adults to sell, buy, posess, and consume. Make it illegal to drive while high. Make it illegal to sell it or give it to minors. It's not rocket science. People need to self-medicate, and they will self-medicate no matter what. That's why Prohibition didn't work.

 

"Just say NO to criminalization of drugs!"

[lrossmusic]

I have never felt so confident and in control on a tennis court in my life!

That's just it, you think you sound better but really you may be just enjoying yourself more. Actually a little buzz may help one to enjoy a loud, smokey, crowded atmosphere more than they might otherwise. Even the jukebox tends to sound better when you are a little tipsy.The problem is when it wears off and you are still in the same environment it tempts you to endulge even further. I am pretty sure I was on the verge of alcholism when I played a lot of bar gigs. Now I don't mess around much but believe me I consumed my fair share over the years. I consider myself lucky that I got away from it befoer I did too much damage.

[Superbobus]

Another point: the drug laws, especially in the States, are totally insane. All drugs should be legal. Yes, including the hard stuff. Drug abuse should be treated as a health problem, not as a criminal problem. And why penalize people for selling drugs? Selling is the American way, it's a capitalist system, remember? Sellers are not "worse" than users, they are simply capitalists. Selling to children, or giving drugs to children? Ok, that's wrong. But look at alcohol as a model for how this should work: make it legal for adults to sell, buy, posess, and consume. Make it illegal to drive while high. Make it illegal to sell it or give it to minors.

I couldn't agree more. Didn't you guys, I mean the politicians, learn from the twenties when booze was forbidden? The only way when legalization will work is to legalize drugs world wide. Imagine the revolution...

[RobT]

Originally posted by Superbobus:

I couldn't agree more. Didn't you guys, I mean the politicians, learn from the twenties when booze was forbidden? The only way when legalization will work is to legalize drugs world wide. Imagine the revolution...

Man, I shudder at that thought. I guess it'll keep the drug cartels from killing each other and a lot of innocent bystanders...

 

RobT

[coyote]

My own experience belies this. BTW, up to this point I never thought I played well under the influence either....

 

A dozen years ago I played an Xmas Eve gig. I didn't want to be there, and I got drunk before the gig. I thought my playing SUCKED as the set progressed. It so happens someone videotaped that show..... while it wasn't perfect, my overall guitar playing was quite good *and* there were some really outstanding moments! I can look back at that video and be a whole lot happier about it than while I was actually playing it.

 

Originally posted by Byrdman:

Originally posted by Krakit:

As for my own experience, I've played with people that claim that smoking pot or getting drunk makes them play better. Either they all really suck to begin with or they're wrong.

 

Claim being the operaive word.

 

I once had the interesting experience of playing tennis drunk. It was a regularly scheduled game with a friend and my sister had had a birthday party just before.

 

I have never felt so confident and in control on a tennis court in my life! I still don't understand why it ended up 6-0 6-0 against.

[Superbobus]

Man, I shudder at that thought. I guess it'll keep the drug cartels from killing each other and a lot of innocent bystanders...

RobT

The reason that drug cartels are existing is because politicians have created a situation in which an underworld will grow like the amount of flies on a heap of sh*t. Is weed more dangerous than alcohol? I dare say that alcohol and cigarettes are as dangerous to your health as cocaine or XTC. There's A LOT of work to do when it comes down to this problematic situation.

I'll say NO to criminalization of drugs.

[realtrance]

Just an observation: sounds like, from this thread, a little indulgence makes you more of an _observer_ than an _agent_ in the music-making experience. You get pushed back into, possibly, enjoying the perception of what you are doing and away from the actual doing, and the quality of it.

 

Great for you (for that brief moment, perhaps), crummy for the audience or recording session.

 

I don't think it's wrong to indulge in real moderation as long as you're aware of the above. You can enjoy the moment as is, but don't expect those around you to share in it.

 

That's why drugs 'n TV are basically the same thing, and equally bad for your health, ultimately; they make you less of a participant in your own existence, more of a watcher of yours and other peoples'. That's usually a dead end street. And the worst health risk, above all the others documented.

 

rt

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Botch:

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who used to use chemicals but now have another, healthier way to "unlock" their musicianship, be it yoga, snorting pure oxygen, prayer, more sex, less sex, scream therapy, etc. Anyone?

Well, sex is good.

 

TRUST. If you trust in yourself and the people you're playing with, your inhibitions start to melt away. Whatever it takes to have that trust is good. For a lot of people, that means giving up drugs or drinking. I used to play in a lot of bands where somebody or other had a drinking or drug problem and you could never REALLY feel safe around them. You never knew what kind of scrape they were going to get you into next, either onstage or off. So there was always that underlying fear and mistrust. The chemicals appeared to promote camaraderie within the band but it really only fueled those inhibitions and then you would HAVE to get drunk or high to lose them.

 

It's a huge relief these days to be in a band where nobody does drugs and everybody drinks only VERY occasionally and moderately. The level of trust and love we have for each other and the music is what frees our inhibitions... so while I don't agree with the general statement "drugs are for losers" I have never entirely understood why so many musicians do drugs, because if playing doesn't get you high I don't know what does. To me, it's the biggest high there is, and I want to be totally aware of every second of it.

 

I think people also need to make room for the idea that everybody responds differently to drugs and alcohol. Some people are more susceptible to addiction than others; some seem to play better a little high, some worse, some there's no difference. So everybody's experience of it is going to be different.

 

--Lee

[joegerardi]

I gotta story to tell...

 

When we used to do "Touch and Go" by ELPowell, I had to do all the electronic drum parts with my left hand whilst the right did the keyboard parts. It was a hell of a program. I had the choir programmed so that the bottom octave note was triggered only on the note that my thumb would play, so that everything would sound correct as long I played it properly. That way I had the left and right hand parts both happening in the right hand while the left only had to play the drums...

 

One night at rehearsal I had a couple' a beers. Nothing special, but for some reason they hit me the wrong way. We used to record our rehearsals so we could listen back and see where we needed to improve. Thinking I had nailed it, and had everything working perfectly, when I listened back. I was actually ashamed at what I was doing on the drum part. I guess that's why I never drank anything but soda water at gigs...

 

I remember another time I was playing in the show "Company" by Sondheim. I remember the music director was doubling the piano part, and he swore that playing whilst using cocaine made him play better because he could "concentrate" better during the music. he played like crap. I remember telling him about 50 times a night where we were in the score, saying things like "3 before F," which are references within a score, and him screwing things up right and left...

 

I was probably the most boring rock musician in history, never doing anything, but I know that except a coupla' few times, I was able to really play and hear where I was screwing up... I have to say that anyone that uses while playing might THINK that they are doing some really cool stuff, but in my experience, they're just messing it up for the other bandmates.

[Dan South]

Sober. Music is drug enough for me.

[Max Ventura]

Sober, although I don't play live anymore these days.

[Raymar]

I'm a caffeine user myself. Starbucks coffee does the job pretty well and I create ambient/space music.

 

Steve

www.mp3.com/SteveRaymar

www.besonic.com/raymar

[Superbobus]

I remember another time I was playing in the show "Company" by Sondheim. I remember the music director was doubling the piano part, and he swore that playing whilst using cocaine made him play better because he could "concentrate" better during the music. he played like crap. I remember telling him about 50 times a night where we were in the score, saying things like "3 before F," which are references within a score, and him screwing things up right and left...

NEVER trust somebody who's saying that. Coke is the biggest "liar" of them all because you think you're king of the world, but your not. I know too many musicians using that stuff and it makes them annoying and arrogant. That's the reason I will never use it on stage, NO WAY.

How did he play when he was sober, did he also suck or was this guy never sober?

[Steve LeBlanc]

Ah, well Cocaine is a completely different monster...I've only done that crap a couple of times at parties way back when I was especially stupid...luckily I was smart enough to never do it again.

[Pat Azzarello]

I know others feel they play better when they aren't sober. All I know is that I don't.

 

My playing definitely suffered when I imbibed. It might seem to go well, but listening later there just wasn't that precision to the playing that I wanted. I even thought (at times) that my playing was more inspired but, again, it turned out to be wild, not inspired. I found that a lack of "inspiration" can be overcome naturally by playing late at night, or when I'm tired.

 

Pat Metheny (who I understand from a good source does not take drugs or alchohol) talks about how he plays better on an empty stomach. I've found that to be the case too (I have a better focus, maybe because the blood isn't going to my stomach, it's going to my brain;)).

 

Last time I got high, I couldn't remember any "A" chords. Basically, I knew where they were and what they were, but when the beat came to play them my mind went blank. The band would look at me when an "A" was coming up, I'd smile and nod knowingly, then whoosh, it was gone.

 

A while later I started drinking on gigs with the bands frontman (a radio guy who played harmonica). That lasted about 2 months before I realized how out of control my playing was when I drank, and didn't want it to transfer to my driving later in the night. I stopped all but the occasional beer.

 

Maybe it was the pot, maybe it was the tequila... I don't know and I don't care.

[Magpel]

Originally posted by PatAzz:

Last time I got high, I couldn't remember any "A" chords. Basically, I knew where they were and what they were, but when the beat came to play them my mind went blank. The band would look at me when an "A" was coming up, I'd smile and nod knowingly, then whoosh, it was gone.

 

That's hilarious! You lost A. Wow. One of my first gigs ever, as a teenager, I got really high and drunk and forgot all the songs I was supposed to play, but there's something really beuatiful about losing one key. Sounds like a deep brain thing.

[DC]

Let's see, booze is better for singing, pot for playing. The green stuff is the best thing for 'very ideas' and writing in general. I haven't had any in years though.

 

The problem is state dependant learning. Long ago, I was in a band that did all rehersals and gigs high. It was great until you couldn't score, then everything went straight to hell.

 

Now days I have the occational drink, but it's like what they used to tell you for driving; two the first hour and no more than one an hour after. If you're jumping around and singing which is quite a bit of exercise, that seems to work out fine on the balance of competence and smiling.

 

LSD? Haven't done psychedelic drugs since college, but I don't see how you can gig on em. I always think strings are going right through my fingers (a clay face thing I guess).

 

Coke is God's way of telling you you're making too damn much money -Richard Pryor.

[Superbobus]

Coke is God's way of telling you you're making too damn much money -Richard Pryor.

LOL!!! (lol is the Dutch word for fun. Ain't that a coincidence?)

[Steve LeBlanc]

hey...have you ever done drugs (specifically marijuana) before playing because you knew you wouldn't be able to stand playing with the weaker players involved without some mind bending?

[Superbobus]

Wow Steve, you crack me up! No, I only started drinking when this happened, although that's a pretty weak option. The best is to avoid situations like that and play with cats that are at your wave length or at a higher level. However, maybe the higher level cats start drinking or doing dope in that situation too.

Ah, well Cocaine is a completely different monster...I've only done that crap a couple of times at parties way back when I was especially stupid...luckily I was smart enough to never do it again.

Actually, I had big fun with that on parties. It's hilarious what kind of crap talk you will get when you would record a party with cats on coke. However, the fact that I didn't notice it's dangerous health effects is the reason I won't do it a lot. It's a sniper... and it's too f**kin' expensive!