spinichARF Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Hi I am not a fan of computers... when it comes to making music I am strictly a hardware person... but I am in the market of a digital multitrack soon, and was thinking, instead of spending $1500 on something that can do only one thing, why not think about going the computer option and get something that could also be my sequencer, remixer, synth, etc... I have a Gateway computer, and even when I use it just for wordprocessing and internet, it's a little bitch that likes to piss me off day after day. I was reading how most people use Macs for music because they are more stable. I was wondering if someone could give some input on what kind of computer I would preferable get? Someone was telling me that you shouldn't look at places like Comp USA or Best Buy, there are Macs and such made for music, that have better processors or whatever... The main thing I am looking for is for the thing to be stable I HATE it when a computer crashes. I will mostly be using it for recording and maybe playing some games (warcraft, thats about it...) I would need a MIDI interface, and a decent soundcard, right? Bassically how much money would the computer be? (minus the extras...) I would like to spend about $1500-2000... Also, are Macs that much different than PCs? Will have to re-learn the computer? Thanks for any input guys! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Originally posted by spinichARF: Also, are Macs that much different than PCs? If by "different" you mean... "do they work better, crash less, are more intuitive, easy to learn, easier to install, and are the industry standard among professionals?", then yes, you could say they are different. steadyb This message has been edited by steadyb on 09-19-2001 at 01:35 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinichARF Posted September 19, 2001 Author Share Posted September 19, 2001 actually, that part I already knew... i was referring to the operating system, is it like something completely different than windows? Will I have to re-learn everything? It doesnt matter, because I'm willing to do all that if it's for a computer that is alot more reliable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Originally posted by spinichARF: i was referring to the operating system, is it like something completely different than windows? Will I have to re-learn everything? It's not that different. Remember, Windows is originally a rip-off of the Mac OS anyway(which Apple kinda stole from Xerox). Icon based, point and click, key shortcuts, etc., but easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Originally posted by spinichARF: Hi I am not a fan of computers... when it comes to making music I am strictly a hardware person... but I am in the market of a digital multitrack soon, and was thinking, instead of spending $1500 on something that can do only one thing, why not think about going the computer option and get something that could also be my sequencer, remixer, synth, etc... I have a Gateway computer, and even when I use it just for wordprocessing and internet, it's a little bitch that likes to piss me off day after day. I was reading how most people use Macs for music because they are more stable. I was wondering if someone could give some input on what kind of computer I would preferable get? Someone was telling me that you shouldn't look at places like Comp USA or Best Buy, there are Macs and such made for music, that have better processors or whatever... The main thing I am looking for is for the thing to be stable I HATE it when a computer crashes. I will mostly be using it for recording and maybe playing some games (warcraft, thats about it...) I would need a MIDI interface, and a decent soundcard, right? Bassically how much money would the computer be? (minus the extras...) I would like to spend about $1500-2000... Also, are Macs that much different than PCs? Will have to re-learn the computer? Thanks for any input guys! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Here are my two cents. . . I ended up with a MAC G4 dual processor running Digital Performer from MOTU. The reason was that I knew of no professional grade studio that ran a PC. . ., although I now understand that some do. . ., but they're in the minority... Also, I was told by several knowledgeable people that the MACs are more stable than PC's. Although, MACs also crash and freeze. However, my experience has been that my MAC is a lot less fussy and needs much less attention than my regular PC which I don't even use for digital audio recording... There are two ways to attack the issue. Either decide on your platform first and find out what software will work on it, or decide which software you want to run and then find out which plarform will support it. I did the first of these two because getting to know the intricacies of different software programs would have been way too time consuming and potentially fruitless. . . Bottom line: I got the mac, with a great program, and have not regretted it for an instant... If you go with the mac, I would suggest you seriously look into the dual processor kind and especially if you like Digital Performer 3.0 which supports multiprocessor macs. . . Albert PS. I am sure there are many happy PC users on this forum. I know of a couple. . . Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinichARF Posted September 19, 2001 Author Share Posted September 19, 2001 Thanks for the input guys! He Albert, you're the second person to recommend the Mac G4 within like an hour.... how much does it cost? And what else would I need (soundcard, programs, monitor)? Thanks http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 As far as cost irt depends on whether you get it new or used, single or dual processors. The single processor new starts around $1700 and you can spend as much as $3,500 on a dual processor 800 Mhz machine. I don't know about the used mac prices(and believe me that is a fine option . . .) You will definitly need a monitor... As far as what else you need. . . It depends on what your budget is and what your goals are, how you record, and what you intend to record... You actually need software for sure. . . but can get by with nothing else and use the audio inputs that come standard with the Mac. The problem with that is that you'll be recording at 16 bits as opposed to 24 bits... !6 bit recording does not have the detail that 24 bit recording does... Here's my set up: I got a MOTU 2408 I/O box with 8 analog ins, a bunch of digital I/O options and as I said in my earlier post I am using Digital Performer 2.72 currently for my audio/midi sequencing software. You should also buy a second hard drive for audio files only. . . That will improve your computer's performance but that's not an absolute must . . You can (but shouldn't) do without it. You also need speakers (prefereably near field monitors), and you can use a mixer to get around latency issues. You will also need a midi interface if you intend to make use of midi recording. I am probably missing a few items, but that's all that comes to mind right now... Hope his helps. Albert Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinichARF Posted September 19, 2001 Author Share Posted September 19, 2001 Jesus Christ!!! $1700 is just a little over my budget I was looking at around $900-1000 plus monitor and software! Any decent macs or whatever for around that? If it doesn't got super speed-memory thats ok as long as I can upgrade later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Check out this link. It will give you an idea about prices for refurbished macs. http://www.powermax.com/cpus/refurb_g4.html Albert Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinichARF Posted September 19, 2001 Author Share Posted September 19, 2001 That's not too bad... $1150 for a G4 that's $1700 new... but what does 'refirushed' mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_3guy Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Originally posted by spinichARF: Jesus Christ!!! $1700 is just a little over my budget I was looking at around $900-1000 plus monitor and software! Any decent macs or whatever for around that? If it doesn't got super speed-memory that's ok as long as I can upgrade later. Don't fool around, get the fastest Mac possible, even if you have upgrade your monitor & I/O later. It's never practical to upgrade processors & bus speeds. Ram & hard drive, yes. A friend of mine has a good story when it comes to stuff like this. 2 guys with 2 identical houses. One guy keeps his thermostat at 64 degrees. Everybody is going around with sweaters on, cold. The other guy keeps his thermostat at 72 degrees. everyone is comfortable in the house. The first guy spends $800/year on heat. The second guy spends $1000/year on heat. Did the first guy save $200 or did he waste $800 because everybody was going around cold? Don't waste your $900/$1000 by buying an older/refurbished computer that barely allows you to record, when you should have spent $1700 that comfortably allows you to record. Steve www.seagullphotodesign.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 I agree with b_3guy conceptually and as a matter of practice. However, there are many people using old 9600 machines with fine results depending on their needs -- budgets. Personally, I would spend the extra dough and get the new machine, but that may not be the best option for everyone!! As far as what refurbished means, you will have to talk to the people that advertise it to find out exactly what that means. . . Albert Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheether Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 ..refurbs are dicey when it comes to computers. You may unwittingly purchase a dud - masked at first by some clever reimaging. When it comes to macs, most people have them for years and years and the only reason I can think to get rid of it is if it's not working right. Most will hold on to even really old models and use them for data dumps or spare parts. If 1700 is your total budget, I don't think a brand new mac along with audio/midi gear is even possible. Maybe go to macmall.com (?), sometimes they sell older models that were never sold. Someone here has got to have a good link to mac dealers, right? If it's just digital recording you are looking for - why not look at the korg D16, roland vs1860, yamaha et al (sorry if I completely messed up the model #'s) - they are all under 1700 and some have virtual tracks, scrubbing, midi ins/outs etc...If I were to go the non-computer route, I'd be thrilled with this gear. Macs do cost more, but I wouldn't trade mine in for the world...(check out the archive on the digital recording forum, there are tons of posts on mac vs. pc/ motu vs. digi 001, real interesting reads)...Good luck with whatever you decide! ~nel * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 spinichARF, here's an entry-level suggestion I put together for midispaceho last month: 1) A 500 MHz iMac for $995 with a free 256mb memory upgrade : the host computer with two FireWire ports and two USB ports. 2) An Emagic Multichannel Interface 2|6 for $349.99 : the USB audio interface with two inputs and six outputs. 3) Emagic MicroLogic AV for $79.99 : the sequencing and audio software with 16 tracks of audio. 4) A Maxtor 3000DV 60 GB 7,200 RPM FireWire HD for $349.95 : the drive on which to record the audio. 5) A RolandED USB Master Keyboard PC-300 for $248 : the keyboard to play those softsynths with (no MIDI interface required; comes bundled with Steinberg Cubasis AV in case you want an alternative to MicroLogic AV). Total: $2,021.93 P.S. Go here to search for free software instruments! Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_3guy Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Originally posted by nelz: You may unwittingly purchase a dud - masked at first by some clever reimaging. You really don't want a Franken-Mac. Steve www.seagullphotodesign.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zeger Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 If you need to stay $1500 or less, Mac Warehouse has G4/466 closeouts at $1299. Excellent price/performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursers Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Yep G4 the way to go - I have a G4/533 running Digi001, Cubase, Rocket Network, Logic, and Reason - all work beautifully. ------------------ www.mp3.com/thirdstoreystory The Keyboard Chronicles Podcast Check out your fellow forumites in an Apple Music playlist Check out your fellow forumites in a Spotify playlist My Music: Stainless Fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinichARF Posted September 20, 2001 Author Share Posted September 20, 2001 Cool... I'm not going to be getting it for maybe like 6 months... so I've got time to think about it... thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheether Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 b-3...I don't get the franken-mac joke...what am I missing here?~nel * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-kay Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Originally posted by spinichARF: Also, are Macs that much different than PCs? Will have to re-learn the computer? Well, they only have ONE mouse-button, as far as I know. Being a UNIX/Linux -fan, that would drive me crazy (we use THREE buttons). Is there a mouse for Mac with more than one button?, and if so, do the programs support that?. Why havent the Mac reinvented the wheel by the way?, the scroll-wheel that is. Makes my work on my PC so much easier. Don't tell me, you don't need that on Mac? and getting an audio-computer under 1000$ (soundcard included, monitor excluded) would be a dream.. buying-rule no 1: Are you a computergeek who wants to make music?, buy PC. Are you a musiciangeek who wants to make music?, buy Mac. /d-kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Originally posted by d-kay: Are you a computergeek who wants to make music?, buy PC. Are you a musiciangeek who wants to make music?, buy Mac. ...and if you're just a geek, buy a chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Originally posted by d-kay: Why havent the Mac reinvented the wheel by the way?, the scroll-wheel that is. Makes my work on my PC so much easier. Don't tell me, you don't need that on Mac? If you mean a scroll-wheel on the mouse, it is available for Mac. I forget the manufacturer, but I saw them in the Mac section at Fry's when I was getting my Pro Mouse. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 I bought a Microsoft optical Intellimouse when I bought my G4 in spring of 2000. It has a scroll wheel and five buttons, all of which are assignable. It looked cool on the surface, and I used it for about a half a year, but I found that it bothered my wrist to hold the mouse in a way in which I could have access to all that it offered. When the Apple Pro Mouse came out, I bought one and didn't look back... I'm glad I work on a platform that allows both simple and complex options. Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Originally posted by d-kay: Well, they only have ONE mouse-button, as far as I know. Being a UNIX/Linux -fan, that would drive me crazy (we use THREE buttons). Is there a mouse for Mac with more than one button?, and if so, do the programs support that?. I've been using a Kensington Thinking Mouse with my Macs for several years. It is a four button mouse, which also allows 'chording', or combining two buttons for additional functions. Works like a dream, saves me much time and I wouldn't consider working without it. I think they have USB versions these days. BTW, 'right-click' support is built natively into the MacOS ('contextual menus'). Any PC USB mouse will work too (you might need a shareware program called USB overdrive for some, but that works really well from what I've heard) Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-kay Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Originally posted by Sal Orlando: BTW, 'right-click' support is built natively into the MacOS ('contextual menus'). Any PC USB mouse will work too (you might need a shareware program called USB overdrive for some, but that works really well from what I've heard) Hope this helps. Thanks for the info, one less reason for not buying mac I guess. But I still wonder why they don't ship Mac with a "normal" 2-buttons-mouse. Is it because it is more difficult to use a 2-button-mouse than a 1-button-mouse?. Or is it simply the fact that their shiny little ice-hockey-puck looks quite cool, and 2 buttons would ruin the design?. /d-kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinichARF Posted September 21, 2001 Author Share Posted September 21, 2001 Yeah I guess you guys are right... instead of spending $1000 on something mediocere.... I should just drop the extra $700 and get something decent that wouldn't be outdated in 6 months....thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted September 22, 2001 Share Posted September 22, 2001 Originally posted by d-kay: I still wonder why they don't ship Mac with a "normal" 2-buttons-mouse. Is it because it is more difficult to use a 2-button-mouse than a 1-button-mouse?. Or is it simply the fact that their shiny little ice-hockey-puck looks quite cool, and 2 buttons would ruin the design?. The hockey puck mouse has been gone for about a year now. Here is the current mouse that ships with Mac systems: http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/promo_hp_mouse_half.gif As far as to why Apple doesn't ship Macs with a two-button mouse, one can only speculate. I don't believe there is much of a demand for one by Apple's core constituency. We're pretty used to "control-click" and "command-click" solutions. These are the functions which would by replaced by the second and third buttons on a PC style mouse. Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted September 22, 2001 Share Posted September 22, 2001 Now if you want buttons, check this out: http://www.contourdesign.com/contour_images/shuttlepro_web_prod_page.jpg It's not a mouse, but all of the buttons are programmable, plus it has jog and shuttle controls. It was designed to work with DAWs and video editing systems. It's called the ShuttlePRO and it works with both Macs & PCs. The SRP is $125. Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwisniewski Posted September 22, 2001 Share Posted September 22, 2001 Is it just me or does that ShuttlePro look like an alien space ship from Star Trek? ... and so now I have to get one http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_3guy Posted September 22, 2001 Share Posted September 22, 2001 Originally posted by nelz: b-3...I don't get the franken-mac joke...what am I missing here?~nel Sorry, I was asleep at the wheel. A Mac that has been put together with parts from here, parts from there, like Frankenstein. I really think only guys that are tech-like should own such beasts. Steve www.seagullphotodesign.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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