Perfect, Relative Pitch?

[Bucktunes]

I'm curious. How many of you have perfect pitch, and how many have good relative pitch? Or how about not quite perfect, but excellent relative? (I guess that would be where I fit.)

 

Secondly, how important is it to your playing to have perfect or relative pich? How do you use it to learn, memorize material? To improvise, compose?

 

Personally, I make my living as a player, so I consider my ears at least as important as technique. Especially when you're asked to play a tune you're familiar with, but never physically played. Of course, reading is also important, but that's another subject! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Peace all,

Steve

 

This message has been edited by SWBuck1074@aol.com on 06-29-2001 at 05:09 PM

[Steve LeBlanc]

Well, I'll just say I know I don't have perfect pitch...I have very good relative pitch (at least far better than most people I've played with).

 

Jeff Berlin said in a clinic that he wished he didn't have perfect pitch...he said perfect pitch really hurts when you're trying to play with a piano that's not A440 or when experimenting with different tunings. He's the only pro I've talked to who has to deal with Perfect Pitch...I came away feeling glad I don't have it after talking to Jeff.

[joegerardi]

I have excellent relative pitch, pretty good on perfect pitch. well, let me clarify: It USED to be pretty good. Not using it regularly will lessen the ability of anything.

 

I went to school with a girl that was exceptional in both. Just an amazing ear. (And a couple of other things as well. But I digress...) She just amazed me with what she could do. (With those ears, I mean!)

[Rod S]

Damn computer is going nuts on me. Sorry

 

This message has been edited by Rod CA on 06-29-2001 at 07:09 PM

[Rod S]

Check out this thread I had started in Craig's forum a while back..

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001218.html

 

the link to the article still works, I just checked it.

 

I have a terrible sense of perfect pitch, relative is pretty good. I think the relative comes with practice, which I haven't done enough off lately. In general transcribing a tune is a pretty difficult process for me. But then again, I'm guilty of being too lazy to try to figure it out and resort to sheet music http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif

 

I know people who can listen to a tune and play something pretty close to it in a piano. But it seems to be relative pitch is more important than the perfect pitch in this case... I dunno.

[marino]

I don't have perfect pitch. I have a good innate sense of relative pitch, and of course that was refined by years of practice. I am also good to recognize chords and inversions, on any conglomerate of pitches, once I have a starting reference.

BUT sometimes I hear something, and I'm pretty sure it's in a certain key, and most of times I'm right. So I don't know... Could I call it "temporary perfect pitch...?!"

I'm two-minded about perfect pitch. On one hand, I would really like to have it. On the other hand, it doesn't seem really indispensable to make music. Also, there seem to exist several different kinds: My composition teacher, for example, had an exceptional ear. We used to play clusters of 11 adjacent pitches for him, and he was able to say which one was missing to have the complete series! Some other people with perfect pitch couldn't do that. Another of my teachers told me that during the course of her life the standard pitch raised quite a bit, and now when she goes to concerts she tends to hear the old and new tunings at the same time! I guess that's really unnerving.

Maybe we keyboard players are spoiled by our instruments: They always (well, often) give us the correct pitch. For string or brass players,maybe having perfect pitch is more immediately useful... But I'm only guessing of course. My proficiency on both types of instruments is such that I really can't say. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

marino

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I have perfect pitch, and most of the time, I wish I didn't, specifically for the reason that Jeff Berlin cited. Those of you out there that aren't cursed/blessed with this gift/affliction don't know how bothersome it is to have something that's out of tune so slightly that most people wouldn't ever notice to be so painful for me to hear.

 

I developed great relative pitch as time went by, which is much more beneficial IMHO. The only advantage to perfect pitch, as far as I'm concerned, is being able to pull an Ab (or whatever) out of thin air when I need to. It's also easy to tune my guitar (though the inevitable intonation differences going up the neck bother the crap out of me).

 

Note: this isn't just my opinion. I was "diagnosed" with perfect pitch by several instructors at several levels, starting when I was a wee little lad.

 

How important is it to my playing? Well...not so much my playing as my composing, where I find it crucial. When I used to gig a lot more than I do now, it was nice being the "human jukebox" who would play any song that I was reasonably familiar with, whether I'd played it before or not.

 

It's also hampered my efforts to be a better reader, since when I was young I figured, "Why bother? I'll just ear it out." that didn't work when someone first put a new composition in front of me in a studio. Yikes!

 

- Jeff

[dansouth]

I don't have perfect pitch. My relative pitch is good, but like any technique, it could always be improved.

 

I can recognize any note as long as a "guide note" is played first. I can hear common chord structures: 7, 9, #11, 13, major and minor 7, 9, 11, and common altered chords, like 7 (#9) and 7 (#5) (b9). If you played a clusted of random notes, however, I would probably have to hear them played a couple of times to sort out which notes were which.

 

Relative pitch is extremely important in my playing, composing, and even for reading. I tend to recognize printed notes with respect to their position in the key rather than by name. This allows me to "hear" the notes before I play them. When I played the trumpet as a teenager, I could not do this. I just associated notes with a fingering and a range. This was a much less musical way to read, and although I was a better than average sight reader thanks to my teacher, my reading was a matter of reaction rather than musical conception. As I've learned more theory, I think of notes in more abstract ways, i.e. where they fit into the harmonic structures. This seems to enhance flexibility in performance situations.

[Llarion]

I have perfect pitch, but like it was said; if you don't use it, you lose ability. My ear was far sharper in college, I could detect eight-tones. Right now, I'd say that on the border stripe between high relative and perfect pitch, I'm just over the bordr in perfect pitch land.

 

It's a mixed blessing and a double edged sword. It's allowed me to have a very strong theory background without being able to read music well. It has given my compositions a clearly defined consistent tonality, and it has allowed me to be a good arranger because I can play parts in my head. Pitch is refined to me in such a way that different keys have distinctly different "flavors". If I play one of my songs and speed up the tape a whole step, it sounds like a totally new and different song. I can also very easily isolate parts in a song I'm listening to.

 

On the downside, I can never play any non-concert pitched instrument. Picking up a trumpet, seeing C, fingering C, and hearing Bb would short circuit my brain. Also, if someone hums a song to me, if they don't hum it in the key I heard/learned it in, I don't recognize it. It also made me very lazy. Because I'm an ear player, I never developed the self-discipline to learn to read well and get serious chops.

 

Comes in real handy when pianos go out of tune though. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

------------------

Cheers!

 

Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor

www.mp3.com/llarion

Smooth Jazz

[Bucktunes]

If I understand correctly, perfect and relative pitch are two different animals. Perfect pitch is more or less a gift, (curse, Jeff?)where relative pitch is a skill that can be developed to amazing levels, but not quite the same as perfect.

 

Jeff, you got me thinking;

1.) You say you developed relative pitch while having perfect pitch. Did you find it hard to hear music harmonically when it was easier to just identify the notes by name? Did you "cheat" that way, or did you learn to recognize intervals, too?

2.) Does it bother you to hear an orchestra because of the inherent imperfections in pitch? I've heard of a few people who just can't listen to an orchestra for that reason.

3.) When sight reading, do you "hear" the notes on the page without playing them? Does perfect pitch help with that?

 

Don't worry, I won't grade your answers! I'm just curious. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Peace all,

Steve

[dansouth]

When I sight read, I can hear the pitches (within reason, i.e. not on ultra complicated pieces) just using relative pitch. Also, even though I don't have perfect pitch, tuning problems make me very uncomfortable. I'm not talking about tuning to A-436 instead of A-440. I would have no clue as to what the orchestra was tuned to.

 

But if a player were out of tune with the rest of the ensemble, I would be miserable. I used to have difficulty listening to Springsteen in his early years for this reason. Also, there was a period in the 90's where singing flat was deemed "cool" by producers. Listen to Jane Sibery's song at the end of the movie, "The Crow" to see what I mean. That songs makes me cringe.

[Max Ventura]

Im glad to have very good relative pitch. I think perfect pitch is of no use today.

The times when only "certified masters" could perform and mingle about music have gone, and there care a lot of amateurs now who have great ideas or talent but just a sprinkle of education, and they need to fit in, too. When I try to record a singer and after a while I notice he can't quite go that low on certain passages, I'll move the Varispeed knob on my multitracker and we'll try maybe a half-step up: thus the ability to adapt immediately to the new harmonic environment is called perfect RELATIVE pitch.

[Max Ventura]

Im glad to have very good relative pitch. I think perfect pitch is of no use today.

The times when only "certified masters" could perform and mingle about music have gone, and there care a lot of amateurs now who have great ideas or talent but just a sprinkle of education, and they need to fit in, too. When I try to record a singer and after a while I notice he can't quite go that low on certain passages, I'll move the Varispeed knob on my multitracker and we'll try maybe a half-step up: thus the ability to adapt immediately to the new harmonic environment is called perfect RELATIVE pitch.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by SWBuck1074@aol.com:

Jeff, you got me thinking;

1.) You say you developed relative pitch while having perfect pitch. Did you find it hard to hear music harmonically when it was easier to just identify the notes by name? Did you "cheat" that way, or did you learn to recognize intervals, too?

 

Intervalic (relative) pitch has always been what I use more often. It's much more helpful from a compositional standpoint...note relationships are what make music. It would drive me insane to think of every chord in its discrete arpeggiation.

 

2.) Does it bother you to hear an orchestra because of the inherent imperfections in pitch? I've heard of a few people who just can't listen to an orchestra for that reason.

 

Only if it's particularly bad. You're always aware of it, but if you ever hope to enjoy music, you learn to tune it out.

 

3.) When sight reading, do you "hear" the notes on the page without playing them? Does perfect pitch help with that?

 

Yes, I hear everything before I play it. That's as long as it's not above my sight-reading ability, which has worsened horribly since I was a music major in college 14 years ago (and was never great to begin with). I suppose perfect pitch helps...I prefer to think that anyone who gave this enough effort could learn this as well.

 

- Jeff

[Philip OKeefe]

Is perfect pitch a "learned" skill or something you're born with? I can't say for certain - I can only share my own experiences.

 

Yes, I have perfect pitch. Did I "learn" it? I don't think so. I have been able to pull pitches out of thin air for as far back as I can remember. Someone would start singing a popular song acapella and in the incorrect key and I'd say "that's not how it goes, it goes like this" and proceed to sing it in the right key. I had no idea of the names of the pitches at that time, but I could accurately hear them in my head and recall them accurately at will. Later, as I started music lessons and learning theory, I was able to put names (F#, Bb, etc.) to the pitches I was able to "hear".

 

Like Jeff (Tascam guy) and Jeff Berlin, I can agree that it can be a bit of a pain in the backside at times. When I hear a recording that's "in the cracks" (not in A, not in Bb, but somewhere in between) it can be somewhat annoying. It doesn't bother me as much anymore, because I just acknowledge that it's "in the cracks" and deal with it and don't allow it to bother me. And there's a greater "upside" to perfect pitch than some of you might think - sure, relative pitch is a nice / important skill to develop, but with perfect pitch you can hear something, know the key, know what notes they're playing, etc. If you're halfway good at memorizing rhythms, you can really give your piano teacher fits by having her / him play through the peice once (so you can "hear how it's supposed to sound") and then act like you're sight reading and play it from memory... I've been guilty of that a few times (my ears are better than my eyes).

 

One other really nice thing about it is that in my line of work, it's really handy - I *know* when someone is flat on a vocal line, or when a string on a guitar is off, etc.

 

On balance, I'm certainly glad to have this gift.

 

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording

Riverside CA

http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

pokeefe777@msn.com

[Llarion]

Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com:

If you're halfway good at memorizing rhythms, you can really give your piano teacher fits by having her / him play through the peice once (so you can "hear how it's supposed to sound") and then act like you're sight reading and play it from memory...

 

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about when I said perfect pitch made me lazy. I took 3 piajno lessons once; and the teacher played the piece he wanted me to learn for me, and I memorized it. He figured it out quickly, because the next week I wasn't looking at the book while I played it... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Wish I had the discipline to learn to read well... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

But yeah, overall, I wouldn't trade it for anything...

 

 

 

 

------------------

Cheers!

 

Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor

www.mp3.com/llarion

Smooth Jazz

[Laurie Z.]

Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com:

Is perfect pitch a "learned" skill or something you're born with? I can't say for certain - I can only share my own experiences.

 

Yes, I have perfect pitch. Did I "learn" it? I don't think so. I have been able to pull pitches out of thin air for as far back as I can remember. Someone would start singing a popular song acapella and in the incorrect key and I'd say "that's not how it goes, it goes like this" and proceed to sing it in the right key. I had no idea of the names of the pitches at that time, but I could accurately hear them in my head and recall them accurately at will. Later, as I started music lessons and learning theory, I was able to put names (F#, Bb, etc.) to the pitches I was able to "hear".

 

Like Jeff (Tascam guy) and Jeff Berlin, I can agree that it can be a bit of a pain in the backside at times. When I hear a recording that's "in the cracks" (not in A, not in Bb, but somewhere in between) it can be somewhat annoying. It doesn't bother me as much anymore, because I just acknowledge that it's "in the cracks" and deal with it and don't allow it to bother me. And there's a greater "upside" to perfect pitch than some of you might think - sure, relative pitch is a nice / important skill to develop, but with perfect pitch you can hear something, know the key, know what notes they're playing, etc. If you're halfway good at memorizing rhythms, you can really give your piano teacher fits by having her / him play through the peice once (so you can "hear how it's supposed to sound") and then act like you're sight reading and play it from memory... I've been guilty of that a few times (my ears are better than my eyes).

 

One other really nice thing about it is that in my line of work, it's really handy - I *know* when someone is flat on a vocal line, or when a string on a guitar is off, etc.

 

On balance, I'm certainly glad to have this gift.

 

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording

Riverside CA

http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

pokeefe777@msn.com

 

Well said, Phil. Like the other Phil and Jeff/Tascam, I somehow was given the perfect pitch gene. Exactly the same advantages and disadvantages. Overall, it has definitely been a blessing and has helped my career immensely. Starting lessons at 4 probably helped too, though....

 

I was a participant in a scientific perfect pitch study conducted by a major university a few years ago, including contributing genetic material (!) from myself and my family members. Their goal was to definitively determine genes vs environment for the development of perfect pitch, and as I recall, they found a very strong genetic factor, helped along (of course!!!) by a musical environment and experience.

 

I too cannot stand to detune or transpose a keyboard - messes my head up...but I've learned to "tune out" much of the offensive mistunings in our lives, because if I hadn't - I probably would have gone insane by now!

 

I believe that a strong sense of relative pitch not only can be learned through ear training and experience, but that it is also an essential part of musicianship.

 

There ya go - my 2 cents! :-) (BTW, Jeff from Tascam - didn't know you had perfect pitch!!!)

 

lz

http://www.lauriez.com

http://www.mp3.com/lauriez

[Steve LeBlanc]

sure, relative pitch is a nice / important skill to develop, but with perfect pitch you can hear something, know the key, know what notes they're playing, etc. If you're halfway good at memorizing rhythms, you can really give your piano teacher fits by having her / him play through the peice once (so you can "hear how it's supposed to sound") and then act like you're sight reading and play it from memory... I've been guilty of that a few times (my ears are better than my eyes).

 

Well, I think we're confusing the two a bit here...I can do that without question...always been able to. I can also look at the Score for a 40 piece Big Band and hear all the individual parts in my head, this took more development.

 

I definitly don't have perfect pitch...all of the above is Relative Pitch in my book...it's all about how much you develop it.

 

In High School I had a friend who had perfect pitch...he would hear a whistle, a bird or something and tell us all what note it was. Sure enough, we'd go to the piano and he was always right. At the time his "Relative Pitch" wasn't very great...so I would ask him to play 7-10 notes on the piano at the same time...any notes...he'd try to make it hard on me playing really close clusters surrounded by large intervals, etc....with the help of my ear training I was always able to name every note...I'd just have to hear middle C beforehand.

 

IMO, if you really develop Relative Pitch you have little need for Perfect Pitch...if you're a musician you can't really get by with just Perfect Pitch...Relative Pitch is necessary...well depending on what you want to do musically anyway.

[pianoman_nsyahoo.com]

Wow...... cool topic. I guess you could say that I have very good relative pitch and pretty good perfect pitch at times (it depends on the situation)......... for example, I couldn't possibly listen to a random note or chord being played and tell you what it was. Like if somebody started playing a song... I cannot, without looking at their hands, figure out what key they're in.. that would be an awesome gift to have... especially for improvising, maybe eventually I'll be able to do it. Anyway, the other side of perfect pitch.... I can never just come out and tell you what key they're playing in..... but more than half of the time, if I start playing something, it'll be the right key... go figure.

 

Relative pitch??? I'm much better with relative pitch..... but I still can't have somebody play two notes and then tell you what intervals they were. Well... at least not with consistency. BUT.... I can usually go sit down and play exactly what they played.... for some reason my fingers have better pitch than my ears. I can also figure out chord progressions fairly easily.... all I need is the key of the song and to have heard it once or twice, usually I can play the whole song from that.

 

So... here's a question..... how do y'all develop perfect pitch?? How would you go about learning how to distinguish between different keys by ear??? I think this would be an awesome skill to have... but I have no clue where to start. Any thoughts?

 

------------------

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son; that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com:

And there's a greater "upside" to perfect pitch than some of you might think - sure, relative pitch is a nice / important skill to develop, but with perfect pitch you can hear something, know the key, know what notes they're playing, etc. If you're halfway good at memorizing rhythms, you can really give your piano teacher fits by having her / him play through the peice once (so you can "hear how it's supposed to sound") and then act like you're sight reading and play it from memory... I've been guilty of that a few times (my ears are better than my eyes).

 

Well-developed relative pitch will allow you to do all of the above except determine the key (without a reference). The cool thing about relative pitch is that it's moveable, i.e. you perceive relationships, not notes. That way, when you memorize a song or melody, you can play or sing it back in ANY key. This is a blessing for composers, because you don't get hung up on what key the piece "should" be in. The music and the key are separate concepts, like a model and her outfits. You can try the piece in whatever key you like until you find the best fit.

 

Another cool thing is that most people can learn relative pitch. I had no inherent pitch recognition skills as a child. I developed them as a teen, completely by accident, as I began my (informal) study of music theory.

 

Thanks for the info in tuning "in the cracks." I've often wondered about this, and I've never heard it explained so clearly before.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by KeyboardFreak:

So... here's a question..... how do y'all develop perfect pitch?? How would you go about learning how to distinguish between different keys by ear??? I think this would be an awesome skill to have... but I have no clue where to start. Any thoughts?

 

Yup.

 

1. Perfect pitch goes beyond the abilty to distinguish keys by ear. This, I'm sure, can be learned with training. The best thing in this regard (IMHO) is to identify each key closely with a song you're so familiar with that you can always hear it in your head. How can you hear the opening arpeggio of "Stairway to Heaven" without hearing Am? "Pinball Wizard" in B? "Honky Tonk Woman" in G? Just make your own list and see if it works.

 

2. In and of itself, it's said that perfect pitch cannot be learned, and that it's a genetic trait that fairly rare...it's about as common as color blinddness. It has more to do with the ability to accurately distinguish a smaller variation in pitch than the average ear. This is why, as a guitarist, I am always convinced I am horribly out of tune when it's actually slight variances in intonation in the neck that most people never perceive at all.

 

All I know is that since I was a tiny kid, I never needed a tuning fork to set the E string on my guitar.

 

- Jeff

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by lauriez@lauriez.com:

(BTW, Jeff from Tascam - didn't know you had perfect pitch!!!)

 

Well, Laurie, you know me. Kind of like Mary Poppins...Almost Perfect In Every Way. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

- Jeff

[dansouth]

Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

How can you hear the opening arpeggio of "Stairway to Heaven" without hearing Am? "Pinball Wizard" in B? "Honky Tonk Woman" in G? Just make your own list and see if it works.

 

In response to your suggestion, I just listened to the first minute of Stairway in my head, note for note. I have no idea whether it was in the right key, but all of the notes were right for whatever key I was playing it back in. Then I switched over to Pinball Wizard. Same thing. I can listen to any piece of music in my head without regard to key. I can transpose it in my head. I can play it back two octaves higher or lower. Everything is still in the right place. Every note corresponds to every other note.

 

I would find perfect pitch to be uncomfortably confining. Relative pitch let's you slide any song to any key effortlessly.

[Bucktunes]

Sounds like the concensus so far is that perfect pitch is a cool ace to have up your sleeve, but not completely necessary for great musicianship. Especially if you've got a well refined sense of relative pitch. I first realized this when I found out a few years ago that NONE of the guys in Take 6 have perfect pitch! That floored me when I first read that. I had assumed that all of them must have it to sing the stuff they do. It was encouraging to find out what can be done just with deep harmonic knowledge and a well developed relative pitch. Of course, it helps to have voices as good as theirs! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

I find my level of pitch recognition depends on how much eartraining I've been doing lately. Kind of like a muscle that needs to be exercised to keep in shape. If I've been using my ears a lot, I can hit the nail on the head about 90% of the time. The other 10 I might miss by a half step. As far as my relative pitch goes, I'm pretty much the same as the others that have responded. If I know a song, I can play it in whatever key the singer starts singing it, but I have to quietly touch a note to verify the tonality first. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Thanx to all for responding to this. It's really been enlightening so far. I'm kind of surprised Dave hasn't chimed in yet, though. How're your ears, Dave? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Peace all,

Steve

[Jeep]

Incoming......Joke!

 

Perfect Pitch (definition):

 

A two-handed overhand toss of a large accordion, into the precise centre of a land-fill, which lands bang-on a banjo!

[Laurie Z.]

Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

Yup.

 

1. Perfect pitch goes beyond the abilty to distinguish keys by ear. This, I'm sure, can be learned with training. The best thing in this regard (IMHO) is to identify each key closely with a song you're so familiar with that you can always hear it in your head. How can you hear the opening arpeggio of "Stairway to Heaven" without hearing Am? "Pinball Wizard" in B? "Honky Tonk Woman" in G? Just make your own list and see if it works.

 

2. In and of itself, it's said that perfect pitch cannot be learned, and that it's a genetic trait that fairly rare...it's about as common as color blinddness. It has more to do with the ability to accurately distinguish a smaller variation in pitch than the average ear. This is why, as a guitarist, I am always convinced I am horribly out of tune when it's actually slight variances in intonation in the neck that most people never perceive at all.

 

All I know is that since I was a tiny kid, I never needed a tuning fork to set the E string on my guitar.

 

- Jeff

 

Exactly. That's why a person with perfect pitch can tell you the chord in a truck horn or the notes in a clock's chime. It can really make you insane....

 

That's one of the reasons I stopped singing. I heard all the imperfections and gave up on myself. Now I just try to work with singers with great pitch sense.

 

Interval training's a great way to get the relative pitch thing going - and you can remember intervals with familiar songs as well (e.g., "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" starts with an octave) but it's also true that you can remember note placement with the keys of familiar songs, too, as you said.

 

And as I'm fond of saying, it can never be perfect, 'cause it's housed in an imperfect human being! (at least, I use that as my excuse) ;-)

 

lz

(wow - a guitar player who can actually tune his own guitar without a tuner!!!!! Amazing!)

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

In response to your suggestion, I just listened to the first minute of Stairway in my head, note for note. I have no idea whether it was in the right key, but all of the notes were right for whatever key I was playing it back in.

 

I'm sorry, man. In retrospect, what I said was pretty insensitive. See, I should have said that I can't hear these tunes without hearing their respective original pitch. The assumption that everyone else can do this as well is somewhat elitist and unfair.

 

I would find perfect pitch to be uncomfortably confining. Relative pitch let's you slide any song to any key effortlessly.

 

Yes! Remember that these are independent skills, and possessing one doesn't necessarily indicate talent or expertise in the other. Also, having perfect pitch doesn't mean you can't ignore it when you want. I can easily play in the "wrong" key any time I want (or transpose compositions as needed). But I always know where the "right" key is supposed to be as well. It can be annoying but it can also be useful.

 

Hey! That sounds like me! "Jeff..Annoying, but Useful ." http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

- Jeff

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:

I have perfect pitch, and most of the time, I wish I didn't, specifically for the reason that Jeff Berlin cited. Those of you out there that aren't cursed/blessed with this gift/affliction don't know how bothersome it is to have something that's out of tune so slightly that most people wouldn't ever notice to be so painful for me to hear.- Jeff

 

You better not check my new tune... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

By the way, I'm also in the perfect pitch thing. Too bad I can not take that to my vocal performances...

[marino]

This is a wonderful thread. Thanks to all partecipants! I learned a lot.

Also, this is the right chance to ask all these people with perfect pitch something I've been ruminating for years.

 

Here's my question: What is the relationship between perfect pitch, as you perceive it, and the equal-tempered scale? We all know that temperament is not "natural" at all, so I guess one learn to adapt at an early age and recognize "tempered" half steps.

To be more clear: When you sing or think of a diatonic scale, do you do it in tempered tones and semitones or you tend to sweeten it toward the "natural" intervals, like many singers do? Or: With some tonic in mind, do you tend to adjust to the "out-of-tune" tempered fifth, or do you go to the "no beatings" natural one?

 

Not having perfect pitch myself (except the "temporary" episodes I described in my post), I'm very curious about that. Also, I started experimenting with alternative tuning on synths, and it's incredible how much that sharpens your ear.

 

Any perfect-pitcher wants to enlighten me? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[dansouth]

Good question, Marino. I've often wondered the same thing. Are there people with perfect equal tempered pitch, and other people with perfect just pitch. There are a lot of scales out there. Maybe perfect pitch isn't accurate to the cent level, so it doesn't matter.

 

One other thing I noticed last night. I'm rerecording a song I wrote ten years ago. It was originally written in D. A couple of evenings ago, I found myself singing the melody. I got out my bass and checked the key that I was in, which was A.

 

Yesterday, I started playing some of the parts into the sequencer. I transposed it to all keys between Ab and E. They all sounded different to me, which is predictable. I think everyone can perceive these differences, it's just that the perfect pitch crowd can not only perceive them, but recognize them. Perhaps with time and training, others can learn to recognize keys. Perhaps not.

 

The other interesting thing is that when I think of a melody or a song in my head, it can be in any key and sound fine. But when I hear it, some keys sound better and some sound worse. Maybe I have a few screws loose. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif But I've learned to "ear test" all of my composition ideas.

 

The song sounded best in D, the original key. I liked A second best. None of the others were even acceptable. I'm going to try to get it to sound good in A by way of the arrangement, because it's easier to sing in A. But it's fascinating to note the vast differences in the sound of the keys, despite the fact that I can't distinguish which key is which.