FORUM CD: Rate "July 4th"

[Dave Bryce]

As many of you know, we are attempting to compile a CD's worth of material submitted by members of this forum.

 

In order to do this, we have posted the entries for consideration and evaluation by all of the members of the forum, whether or not they have contributed a piece.

 

The entries can be found at this web site:

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/261/the_keyboard_corner.html

 

Please go there, and evaluate the piece called "July 4th", submitted by Bill (burning) Busch. Please post your comments on that tune in this thread. This link will take you directly to this piece.

 

If the artist of the piece would care to post any notes about the piece in this thread, they should feel free to do so.

 

Note: The artist has indicated that he may wish to switch this tune out for another one...

 

Thanks for listening!

[b_3guy]

This should be on the CD. The track is a breath of fresh air, excuse the pun. I must admit the VL-1 intro fooled me. I thought I was listening to a real sax. I think a lot of the tunes on the complilation aren't mastered. I know mine isn't. Great job.

[synthetic]

Don't switch the tune! I really enjoyed it. Great songwriting, arrangement, performance and mixing. I really liked the sax and drum sounds, and the effects at the beginning and end were really sweet. This is one of my favorites so far. Thanks for submitting this, -jl

[Steve LeBlanc]

Great song...Man, the sax sounded real. Very cool.

[dansouth]

This piece is really, REALLY nice. The VL1 was played with virtuosic precision. I liked the Rhodes sound a lot. I also like how the sax sort of transformed from a tenor to a soprano at the end of the piece.

 

I'll make two minor suggestions. I don't think any adjustments are necessary for this project, but if you want to release this someday, you might want to consider these changes. Keep in mind that I listened to this in lo fi mode, so that might be responsible for what I'm heading.

 

I would EQ the bass synth a little bit. It sounded a tad muddy - not everywhere, but in a few spots. The other thing is that the drums had a little too much ambience to them. Again, this might be caused by the lo fi download, which tends to screw up reverb badly.

 

Great job, Bill!!!!!!!

 

This message has been edited by dansouth@yahoo.com on 06-29-2001 at 02:29 AM

[michael saulnier]

Contermporary jazz with a "Europa" feel. Wonderful melodic lines. I see myself lounging near a lake, sipping a cold one, waiting for the fireworks to start. I loved the drummer part, although I agree the sound of the drums was a little harsh in some spots... I gotta believe that mp3 format is making all these songs sound less than they should!

 

If you write a cd worth of these tunes... you should be able to break into the smooth jazz radio play and tour thing... (I pray you see this as a complement and not a dig)...

 

Another great job... again...

 

if you ever want to swap riffs with a guitplayer, let me know... I'd love to walk over this sort of rhythm part.

 

guitplayer

[Llarion]

Oh, now THIS is sweet... Great imaging in the beginning!

 

The lead line is reminiscent of the yearning interludes on the Lethal Weapon soundtracks... The recording is open and airy, nice medium-sized room ambience. That is the best sax patch I've EVER heard. I truly thought it was real until I read the song story. I need to get a breath controller, I think... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Don't worry about the mastering, it's not far off the mark right now!! The drums are a teeeeeeensy bit disconnected from the chord bed, nothing a little GENTLE multiband compression wouldn't fix.

 

Great atmosphere! VERY enjoyable piece!

 

------------------

Cheers!

 

Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor

www.mp3.com/llarion

Smooth Jazz

[dansouth]

Originally posted by Llarion:

That is the best sax patch I've EVER heard.

 

I concur. It's an awesome patch. I've always wanted a VL1. Are there any other intruments that can do something like this? It seems as though Yamaha's expansion card synths have some limitations. Can the VL expansion board play this patch, or does it need the VL1's two voice architecture?

 

You know, if people had heard this piece when the VL1 first came out, the board would have been a megasuccess. One of the marks of the true artist is the ability to bring out new voices from established gear. Great work!!

[Gus Lozada]

WAS THAT A VL-1 ????

 

I'm really surprised. Not because of the patch, but because of how does he masters its playing.

 

Great sound FX's. DON'T Swith the tune... this one is perfect.

It has an "oldie" feeling... those old movies... yeah, nothing "oldie" about the VL1...

 

GREAT !!

 

------------------

Gustavo G Lozada

 

Moderador de:

MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo

"La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología"

 

GusTraX @yahoo.com

[bg]

I listened to this piece from the main page, and at the time didn't know the instrument credits. I thought it was a real sax. I know Bill is a good player, so I was kinda waiting for the sax player to step aside so I could hear Bill. When the piece finished I thought, "Wow, what a humble guy. He posts a composition featuring someone else." Now I find out the whole dang thing is a keyboard solo!

 

Bart Garratt

[Guest]

Thanks all for the great feedback. When you're doing everything yourself in your home studio, feedback is not simply nice to have, it's a necessity.

 

With regards to the bass sound. When I soloed the bass synth I now know what is the problem. The patch utilizes a Moog-style legato filter envelope, so when the filter doesn't trigger the sound is significantly more muted. Changing the patch so that the differences between trigger on/off are less drastic is probably more effective than EQing. Again thanks for the input.

 

The drums are live, so there is a certain level of room ambience that is locked into the sound. When I reviewed the mix it turns out that I hadn't added any significant additional reverb. I'm not as disturbed by the sound of the drums. When working with synths/samplers nearly exclusively (as I do), I AM disturbed about the lack of natural ambience. I very much wanted to introduce some "real" instruments. I agree that they could be a bit tighter.

 

The VL-1 is an absolutely wonderful instrument. When it first hit, I tried it out in one of the stores. I wasn't very impressed. Problem is, I kept coming back and each time I found new things that caught my ear. Even though I wasn't knocked out by factory presets, I could hear things in the VL-1 that simply weren't possible with other synths. For one, I fell in love with the vibrato. It's not the FM vibrato you have on all synths (which always sounds like a Lowery organ to me). Rather, it pretty successfully emulates the natural vibrato of a horn player. Additionally, I was impressed with its organic sound.

 

I completely agree that Yamaha should have produced and given away a CD that showcased the instrument. I felt they should have provided prototypes to the likes of Handcock, Corea, Hammer, Zawinul and commissioned them to produce a cuts using the VL-1. As you might or might not know, most of the factory patches produce no sound unless a breath controller is used. Very few keyboard players had ever used a breath controller. So they had to first learn how to use a breath controller before they could get the demo unit in the store to make a sound. Most didn't bother with it.

 

=========

I do have a question for this distinguished group. I've got a CD worth of material done in a similar fashion to July 4th. Most have VL-1-based sax or trumpet. Some are more pop (smooth jazz) sounding, some less. In general I'm happy with the compositions and arrangements. My self doubts come with the heavy use of the synthesized (emulation) instruments, i.e. the sax & trumpets. Sometimes I think I should just go out and hire some great horn players to do these parts. Other times I think no, emulations can be perfectly fine on there own. I mean I'm very grateful Jan Hammer didn't just hire a guitar player (and please, I'm not comparing my stuff to his monumental works). The real horn players would sound "better," but I sense that the result might be more generic, less unique.

 

So I ask of you, if money was not an issue would you use real players or stay with the emulated instruments similar to what you hear on this piece.

 

Thanks.

Busch

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by burningbusch@home.com:

So I ask of you, if money was not an issue would you use real players or stay with the emulated instruments similar to what you hear on this piece.

 

Thanks.

Busch

 

Hi Busch !

If the "emulated instruments" are as real as your performance in "July 4th" AND they are played with your mastery, I'd stay with them, just recording as it is supposed to be, one instrument at a time.

 

In my case, with no VL-1 and not being a great brass playing emulator, wherever as possible I have hired REAL brass players. The difference is really big.

 

We all were fooled, man... amazing performance.

 

------------------

Gustavo G Lozada

 

Moderador de:

MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo

"La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología"

 

GusTraX @yahoo.com

[Llarion]

If money were no object, I'd hire real players in a heartbeat. I'm actually considering hiring New York Horns (www.mp3.com/newyorkhorns) to do some horn and wind work for me, if they can collab by mail... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

------------------

Cheers!

 

Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor

www.mp3.com/llarion

Smooth Jazz

[Steve LeBlanc]

So I ask of you, if money was not an issue would you use real players or stay with the emulated instruments similar to what you hear on this piece.

 

If I had the time and money, if it were me, I would hire some horn players BUT I wouldn't go overboard by rerecording all the tunes. I'd pick the few that needed the real horns the most and leave the rest...spend the extra time you have on NEW COMPOSITIONS http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif.

 

I also think you should continue to showcase your skills at emulation...like this tune....it's really cool.

[Tedster]

Sounds like Gato Barbieri...tunewise and everything...cool...

[Tusker]

Better late than never. I finally got a chance to download and listen to the cd compilation tunes this weekend. It was pretty awe inspiring. I am still on a high about the great talent we have rubbing shoulders here.

 

This is hands down the best synth emulation I have heard of a natural instrument. Creative idea to have the fireworks. I like the glassy pad timbres you use. Personally I think the sax voice could take some more delay on it without adverse effect. You are in a better position to judge that, though so you can tell me to take a hike. Lovely melody and musicianship.

 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

 

------------------

www.tuskerfort.com