Rate the VA synths

[Markyboard]

I think I missed this one also way back when. It's interesting to read Marino's comment on the Memorymoog(thin) followed by his Z1 comment. These are two of my favorites for different reasons (obvious I hope). But it does point out my sound characteristic personal taste vs. his. I don't necessarily want every synth to sound FAT/thick/warm etc. Also all the complaints on the Z1 interface really surprise me. I do not think of this as a analog board and so when I look at digital synths like (DX7, K5000, D50) etc. this is one of the best and easiest menu driven interfaces to get around on(slow??? only on patch changes as far as I can tell) . Again I'm not comparing this to the knob ladden interfaces of most VAs. And I have plenty of real analog covered so the Z1 just provides me with a unique flavor of sound posibilities that I can get lost in programming for hours( a good thing for me).

 

The Q+ and Virus I really wanted to like. But as someone mentioned, with all the knobs I still don't get it - maybe just need more time on them. The Virus does sound good - when I get passed all the arpegiated/auto type stuff and get down to making playable sounds. Ion is a great sounding board but again it doesnt add much to what I already have.

 

I'm with you guys on the OB12 - didnt do much for me sound wise.

 

The Roland JP8000 was the bottom of the heap for me. Again totally subjective - but I always think Rolands sound so processed (whatever that means) and it feels cheap.

[marino]

Everybody please notice the dates on this thread!

[Markyboard]

Originally posted by marino:

Everybody please notice the dates on this thread!

I think most of the recent entries have... but good warning for others Marino. Any updated thoughts/change of heart on your earlier posts?

[clusterchord]

it is interesting how four years ago, during VA explosion, people centered most on their ability to do vintage analog sounds. Today most of the models that survived are proven designs known for its own original trademark sound - nord, waldorf, virus. it is not such a big issue how well they emulate, they are great instruments by them selves - with or without the perfect minimoog lead. they carved out their own market niche.

 

Here's my take on some of the models i had experience with. Mind you I don't own any - my friend has a Virus B and JP8000 in the studio, so i used them in recordings couple of times, and he is also a dealer for Alesis and Nord so i tried NL3 and ION in the store couple of times, standing right above A6. I had borrowed a MS2000 for a while. so take this with a grain of salt:

 

Nord Lead 3 - overall fulness and quality of pure sound. is the smoothest, warmest VA. When i wanted to make some TD style sounds i liked the results the best. It does have certain 'digitalness' to it, but not in a VSTi sort of way, whatever it is, it's warm and musical. For live app, could use better keybed and rudimentary FX.

 

Virus B© - quite versatile, unmistakable trademark sound, everything coming out sounds lik a virus - this could be a good or a bad thing, depends what you want to use it for. i like when synths dont try to be everything to all people. Good phaser, vocoder, booster etc. Has most 'produced' sounds out of the box. Complements real analog quite well. Haven't played KC, but i had K5000 that has the same keybed - best semi weighted ever.

 

JP8000 - nice pads. dont like the filter. too digital, harsh , peaky and thin resonance. Must admit i never liked Rolands take on VA. It coudlnt be further from sound of a 'Jupiter'.

 

ION - the emphasys in programming was on vintage favorites. It is a great value by far. But too plastic and digital sounding for me. It doesnt sound like real analog, otoh kinda lacks the individuality the three big ones have.. to be honest, i didnt tweak enough to find it's hidden soul, but obviously it didnt win me over like others.

 

MS2000 - typical KORG buzzy VA sound. Filters can be plastic. nice distortion,mod seq and vocoder. i like the UI. But, altough always fascinating at first, i always grew tired of this sound after a while. By all means, its nice to have within your sound palette together with other synths, and some emulations (like PWM strings) it does better than the others, but to do all 'analog' chores on it, would be too much.

 

In all honesty, i'd like try and get a hold of a used KC or Q this winter.

[marino]

Originally posted by Markyboard:

Any updated thoughts/change of heart on your earlier posts?

Just a few quick annotations:

 

- I *still* like the AN1X for what it does, and its basic sound color. I've bought one in the meantime.

 

- I *still* like VAZ, but among softsynths, I now also appreciate the sound quality of the Arturia Modular, Creamware Pro-One, and a few others.

 

- I can't wait to put my hands on the Clavia G2. The original NM sounded a bit small to my ears, though I appreciated the possibilities.

 

So - are they there yet? To me, no, not yet. The sound of real analog still puts a big smile on my face.

[MikeT156]

Triple post. If I hit the back button on my mouse after posting, it posts again. Damn.

 

Mike T.

[MikeT156]

Revisiting this thread is a good thing. One previous post mentioned the cost of a synth wasn't taken into consideration initially. Another comment was that after hearing the sounds from a particular synth, then determining if the selling price for the sound is worthwhile. One way or the other, cost has to be a factor. Manufacturers have performance/price built into their marketing model. We shouldn't lump them all in one group either.

 

Mike T.

[MikeT156]

Double post.

[Analogaddict]

Originally posted by marino:

- I can't wait to put my hands on the Clavia G2. The original NM sounded a bit small to my ears, though I appreciated the possibilities.

 

So - are they there yet? To me, no, not yet. The sound of real analog still puts a big smile on my face.

Beware of the G2, some of the pads are really scary for the wallet! The sound of RA - at least when I´m playing myself - is so pleasing! Going from a VA ro a RA like gong from a digital piano to a concert grand!

[Analogaddict]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

Hey Analogaddict, good objective review of what's out there. We all have boards we prefer from one manufacturer to another for a variety of reasons. I like the fact that you state your own bias, which is very cool. Can't say that I disagree with you either.

 

Mike T.

Thanks! You are so right about the various reasons for liking a synth. I´m a live player, not a studio guy. If I were, I´d probably have different priorities! My only real bias is analog and acoustic, for me anything digital that tries to be something else is a compromise. I really like digital stuff too, I love my Evolver and I cannot believe I don´t have a Wavestation, and of course all this technical stuff is making life easier for us, I´m just trying to remember how things sound when there´s no compromise.

[Tusker]

Looking back, I realize that one of wishes was accidentally prescient:

 

Something like the Z1 with samples, would be cool. Or even better, a synth with an interface like the TC Fireworx. Keep the prewired routing (source=>filter=amp) so it doesn't become a modular synth. Pick a sound generator, a filter, modulators, etc until you run out of dsp.

 

Well, that's the V-Synth.

 

But I didn't buy one. Instead I picked up a Nord Modular rack for flexibility.

 

Still, I think the original Nord DSP is cold. The AN1X does mellow rounded things well. The JP8000 is good for some (super saw) string pads and the feedback oscillator. But as others have said the NL3 the Q, and the Virus all offer something more significantly unique.

 

With the modular architecture, none of these are unique enough to desire though. The microwave stands out, simply because it's got some programming richness and you can load your own wavetables. But then again, that's not a VA is it?

 

Jerry

[coyote]

One more concept occurs to me. A VA (or any other synth, for that matter) which is great for studio programming might not be all that good for live performance - very different environments. Some have extensive modulation routings and other wonderful things buried in submenus, others have limited routings but all controls are at hand and logical. Think of it this way: Which synth is easier to quickly get a sound on, Minimoog or Andromeda? For whatever its stability shortcomings the Mini, with its apparent limitations, is a great live player's machine - intuitive and predictable.

[Tusker]

That's a good point, and one reason why I have thought of picking up a JP8000, NL1, NL2 etc. Cheap and cheerful.

 

You can play the front panel completely and easily. Whistles to thunderstorms in a few quick moves. (At least I hope so, never having done it.)

 

Jerry

[mildbill]

i think a synth with hidden menus and massive modulation routings can be just as 'immediate' for playing live.

most of them still give you access to the main functions thru knobs, but there will be lots more to remember about what goes on 'unseen' that you have 'pre-programmed'.

in other words, it probably comes down to using less sounds overall, but knowing what each of them does on a deeper level.

[hermanjoe]

I have been following this thread for a few days and have read a lot of positive comments on the roland JP8000. I have been in the market for a V.A. which is realativley easy to use, great for live setup and can do lead tones a la moog, and some cool pads. A lot of folks have said the Nords sound thin. I myself have never been able to play one in person although I enjoy their demos. I have played the JP8000. My question is: what synth would fit better for a Jazz/Improvizational player who is looking for leads/pads/motion pads with a warm tone, but an easy to use synth espeacially for live use, NordL3or the Roland?

[clusterchord]

what synth would fit better for a Jazz/Improvizational player who is looking for leads/pads/motion pads with a warm tone, but an easy to use synth espeacially for live use, NordL3or the Roland?

i've seen three jazz-chill-fusion acts from London last spring. all three of them had a Nord Lead on top of a Rhodes MK1. I couldnt figure out which version of NL, except for one band (where i was close enough) i'm positive it was NL2. sound fx, polysynths, "mini" fusion style solos etc.

 

NL3 is almost two generations after Rolands JP8000. imo definetely smoother and warmer. great leads.

[coyote]

I won't be giving up my JP8000 til it dies. The sounds are good enough (and often great) for most things you'd want a VA to do, and I dread the thought of programming a new synth to do all the stuff I currently have in the JP8000. My band does prog & fusion stuff.

Originally posted by hermanjoe:

I have been following this thread for a few days and have read a lot of positive comments on the roland JP8000.

That said, the JP is definitely NOT state-of-the-art nowadays. While I think the layout & controls are excellent, there are synths with better engines out there. The ION, VIRUS, and NL3 are all very strong contenders with the ION being very inexpensive. And if you're using it mostly for leads and not-too-dense pads, ION is a great choice. If you need lots of polyphony you may need to spring for more $$$ with the Virus or NL3.

 

With the ION going for less than $800, the only way I'd get a JP8000 today is if it were in excellent condition and cost less than $400.

[hermanjoe]

Are the demoes of the Nord Lead 3 accurate as to what it can accomplish? Any Nl3 users cofirm that?

[wjwilcox]

I've had no experience with any other VA's, but but my Alesis Ion is the most enjoyable and addictive thing with keys on it that I've ever played. It sounds great, the knobs beg one to tweak and mangle, it looks great (I always get comments from the audience...) and it was cheap. My experience with real analog has been limited to a baffling, yet fun, session with a Polysix and a 5-minute hands-on session on a Minimoog with Dr. Bob himself, but the Ion sure sounds like the real deal to me.

[MikeT156]

Yep, the ION is the real deal. There are "better" VA's out there, for more money. All too often people leave the price/performance out of their personal reviews and miss an important point-COST. You really can't beat what the ION can do for what you pay for it.

 

Mike T.

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

Yep, the ION is the real deal. There are "better" VA's out there, for more money. All too often people leave the price/performance out of their personal reviews and miss an important point-COST. You really can't beat what the ION can do for what you pay for it.

 

Mike T.

Agreed. Well, don't forget about the micron, which sports the ion engine in a smaller/even cheaper package.

[MikeT156]

Yeah the Micron is going to sell. Judging by the amount of real time controls on the front panel, programming will be a lot more limited, but that's a pretty insane price for a scaled down ION.

 

I was reading a "review" by a disgruntled ION owner today. He had his share of problems with the one he bought, so they gave him a NEW one. What does he do? He's bitching that the MICRON has a reverb chip and the ION doesn't. DAH. Didn't you know that before you bought it? OR didn't you notice that when you demoed it? Double DAH. Some people are never satisfied. It gets old.

 

Hey Jeebus, LOVE those George W. pict's you put up, they're a scream. By the way, I'm a registered Republican that's voting for Kerry.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike t.

[Jeebus]

Thanks Mike. Does any particular pic stand out as favorite?

 

I'm still waiting to check out the Micron for myself, but the reviews so far have certainly been good. The guy who was bitching about his Ion probably experienced the aliasing issues that it had awhile back (but were since corrected by Alesis).

[MikeT156]

I kind of like the one with the NAZI flag behind GW the best, but the one you have now hits home because you'd have to be freakin stupid to vote for him.

 

I think the dude that was bitchin about the ION got an "early" one with v1.0 OS on it and that had its share of problems. Then when they gave him a new one, he bitched about the pitch not working on it properly and then the reverb it didn't have. He only paid $599.00 for it a GC so it strikes me as funny he's still bitchin'. I suggested he bring it back and ask for a refund.

 

Mike T.

[Jeebus]

I can understand complaining if the pitch wheel didn't work properly... but the reverb? He knew it didn't have reverb before he bought it. Why would he get the ion if he needed on board reverb?

[Ski 1642606170]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

I kind of like the one with the NAZI flag behind GW the best, but the one you have now hits home because you'd have to be freakin stupid to vote for him.

Mike T.

Mike, as one of the "freakin stupid" people to whom you refer, it would be pretty easy for me to engage in childish retaliation, and post a picture of Mr. Kerry in front of the Nazi flag.

 

However...

 

Are you old enough, or well read enough, to understand what the Nazi flag stood for?

 

While I dislike Mr. Kerry's politics, equating him to a man who tortured and killed countless innocent Jewish men, women, and children would be simply wrong.

 

 

And what ever happened to a "VA" topic actually being about virtual analog synths?

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by Ski · · · · ·:

equating him to a man who tortured and killed countless innocent Jewish men, women, and children would be simply wrong.

True, there is no comparison. Bush tortured and killed countless innocent Iraqi men, women and children.

[Jeebus]

Back to the VA topic:

 

Mike, have you managed to try the Virus yet? I strongly suggest it as an option if you're in the market for a new VA.

[Ski 1642606170]

Very nice Jeebus. Thanks.

[MikeT156]

Ski:

 

I going to be 57 shortly, so yeah, I know about the Nazi's, and why Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jewish people. I'm not Jewish, but I had a number of Jewish friends when I was growing up, and their parent's generation were very serious about the Holocaust, as we all should be. I don't mean to make light of it, because there's nothing funny about murdering 6 million innocent people. I apologize if my reference to Bush or Kerry and a Nazi flag offended you in any way.

 

Mike T.

 

Edit: Ski, I was one of the "stupid people" that voted for Bush in the last election too. Anything was better than Al Gore and more of the Clinton era farce.