Rate the VA synths

[Synthguy]

Oh brother... someone needs to implement Ignore on this board, because getting around the dumb shits is getting to be a problem, especially people from a country so inconsequential that only the United States is aware it exists.

 

I really don't see why people insist on being such assholes, but it seems the music world is full of people who want to flaunt how poorly informed they are.

 

Take it to Craig Anderton's mudpit please, I'm tired of you.

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by Sir Basil:

a country so inconsequential that only the United States is aware it exists.

Gee, THAT'S not dumb or poorly informed...

[MikeT156]

Enough about politics, back to VA's. Jeebus, no I haven't gotten to play a Virus. The conversation really started between me and HermanJoe (Tom) who IS in the market for a VA. I have an ION and am pretty happy with it. Tom doesn't like the keyboard and has been tossing around a Virus or a Nord Lead. I think he's leaning toward the Nord, although they sound to digital for my taste. I'd like to play a Virus to get a feel for the sound and keys, no stores around here carry anything, which really sucks. But again, I'm not really in the "market" right now so its not mission critical. When I get a JOB, and have more play money, I'm going to see if I can get my hands on a DSI POLY and a Virus to compare.

 

Mike T.

[Jeebus]

I'll agree that the Ion keyboard isn't fantastic, but for the price of the instrument you really can't complain. I can always control it from the Virus, anyway.

 

The Polyevolver sounds great, my only gripe is the lack of control.. and since I'm partial to keyboard instruments I wish they'd make a KB version of it as well as the rack.

 

It's still a great sounding box though, full of character.

[Synthguy]

Originally posted by Sir Jeebus:

Originally posted by Sir Basil:

a country so inconsequential that only the United States is aware it exists.

Gee, THAT'S not dumb or poorly informed...

Thank you for acknowledging that. Maybe if you grow up and stop offending people, I'll take you seriously.

[MikeT156]

Jeebus:

 

I already bought an ES8 and an ION in the last 6 weeks, so I'm not planning on buying anything else right now.

 

I've been tossing around using a controller for the Poly, but will have to see. I'm partial to complete synths, with KB. I'd like to give the VIRUS a try. I'm running out of room though, I don't have any more space the way it is. I think investing a the RIGHT controller that I can eventually use with a few different modules may be the way to go in the future.

 

Mike T.

[hermanjoe]

I hear so many good things about the virus I have to try one. I know there is perfect synth out there for me. I can be indecisive when it comes to gear, among other things. I haven't written off the ION totally. it's a great sounding board and thats what matters.

[MikeT156]

Hey Tom, it might just pay you to wait until after winter NAMM at this point. I'm sure you're not rolling in the $$$ any more than I am. If you don't like the KB on the ION, don't buy it. You have to be completely satisfied with whatever you buy, or you'll end up dumping it and losing money. There's a lot of good choices out there, and it's real easy to be indecision "under present conditions"..... so many choices, not enough money, and not nearly a big enough house.

 

Mike T.

[hermanjoe]

Yeah I'm definatley waiting for NAMM to happen and see whats out there. I have to spend a half hour or so with each synth I'm interested in. It's tough to do. The best way would be to buy all the ones in question from an online or local store with a 30 day return policy. Play them all for a week or so and make a choice. That would be a tough thing to do. A lot of overhead is needed, but there is something about taking something home and away from the music store that gets rid of the need for a mislead impulse buy.

[Analogaddict]

Yeah, this time of the year you might as well wait for NAMM, it feels like the hardware manufacturers will have to do something extra this year to keep up with software. Also, you might want to consider the price of the Andromeda, it´s not all that more expensive than the top of the line Viruses and Nords.

[Yoozer]

Originally posted by hermanjoe:

I hear so many good things about the virus I have to try one.

Of course! But, I am in such a lucky-bastard position that I have the Ion, the Q and the Virus C at home - and the C loses in terms of userfriendlyness. The endless dials (which the C lacks) don't even have to do with it; it's the layout of the panel that is not necessarily logical. There's still a lot of menu-diving involved and while you still might enjoy the sound, this could be some kind of a stumper for the 'perfect synth' you're looking for

 

The Q and the Ion are almost equal - while the Q has its things with the mod matrix, the Ion has to share its envelope knobs .

[MikeT156]

Tom:

 

I doubt buying each keyboard you're interested in, and then returning it after a week is the right thing to do. Once a KB is opened, it becomes "B" stock to the dealer, and they have to sell it for less because it's been opened. I know I'd beat my dealer up on price of a "B" stock KB. They would probably charge you a restocking fee to help recoup their loses, and you would have to pay the freight both ways too.

 

I spent a lot of time listening to media clips on line before narrowing down my choices, I read about the pros and cons of each KB I was considering on this site and others before deciding. It might be best to do all the listening on line you can over a period of time. Wait until after new instruments are announced at Winter NAMM, listen to the demos and see the video clips of the new gear, and then think about it. You're a VERY particular keyboard player, and you're use to buying the best you can afford. There's always some degree of dissatification with a lot of the things you already own....always searching for the "perfect" instrument. That's a good thing. I think you have to be practical too.

 

Personally, I look at the total package of any KB. Does it have the main sounds I'm looking for in that particular KB? Then there's the KB action, easy of use of the OS, reputation and CS of the manufacturer, after the sale updates and where do I get it serviced? There's weight and size (does it physically FIT in my current rig?), and then COST. That's not an impulse buy.

 

After you've narrowed down your choices, make an appointment with a music store to demo the boards you've decided to play, bring your credit card, and go play them. I think if you make it clear to ANY reputable dealer that you're planning on buying something when you come, they'll role out the red carpet for you.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike T.

[hermanjoe]

Mike,

 

Good advice. Problem for me is it's hard to find a dealer here who has the stuff in stock and I live in Boston which is a major city G.C, will only order stuff if I pay in full. Maybe I could take home a demo model thats already opened so it doesn't hurt anyone. I 'll take everyone's advice and wait to see whats' hitting the streets after NAMM and make a choice then. I don't even mind waiting till next summer. I'm in no real rush, plenty of other things to consider.

 

Thanks,

 

Take Care

 

Tom

[MikeT156]

I know what you mean about the lack of availability of the KB you want to play at a one stop music store. I think its incredible that there isn't a store in Beantown that can handle that other than GC. That's a big problem here in the sticks. I HAVE to use the Internet to keep any kind of handle on what's out there. Fortunately, there's a lot of media clips on the web that give a good indication of what an instrument sounds like. (Alesis, strangely enough doesn't have any media clips of the Andromeda last time I checked). Realistically, I can't expect the small mom and pop stores here to have even a small percentage of new gear in stock, they have to order it. Maybe GC would let you take a floor model for a day or two with a CC for a deposit. The drawback would be that they probably won't be lending out anything that's new at Winter NAMM anytime soon.

 

The only place that's within reasonable driving distance of me that has just about everything is Chuck Levins in the DC area. Their prices are competitive, they weren't the "lowest" price I could get elsewhere, but you can't have it both ways. So I took my chances that everything I heard on media clips and what everyone said about the Motif ES8 and ION were accurate. They were, but I was concerned about the KB on the ION. Buying something without playing it is risky, but then I won't go to dealer that has no chance of getting the sale, play their gear, and then leave. So I'm an Internet customer.

 

Maybe an arrangement with a reputable dealer that has a 30 return policy would work if you're up front with them, and they let you know what their restocking fee is if you return it, and the freight charges. It will end up costing you a lot more money that way, but I suppose its better than buying something and hating it. Damn.

 

Mike T.

 

Edit: Tom, here's a thought. If GC makes you pay in advance for something they don't carry, why don't you give Sweetwater a try. They usually HAVE most every major piece of gear in stock and they also have floor models in their retail store. You might be able to work out something with them if you buy something with them. They might also be able to point you in the right direction so you can narrow down what you want to try. They will tell you up front exactly what their restocking fees are. Those guys know there stuff. Every time I ever talked to my rep (Robert Dorian), he was very knowledgable about everything I was considering and wasn't afraid to tell me what to avoid and why. You could ask him about what type of keybed is on a certain KB and he could probably tell you. Nobody has better CS than Sweetwater. I realize you're not going to do anything until after Winter NAMM, just is a good thing. But they get first shipments of new products when they are available and are worth checking out.

[hermanjoe]

Yeah,

 

I keep checking local stores. G.C., Daddy's and Wurlitzer sound. No one ever has any Nords or Virus. I do see the ION quite a bit, it's very popular. I know G.C. deals nord stuff but the Leads must be on speacial order, they code everything in accordance with how much they can sell, it took me forever it seems to just demo a Yamaha P250. This was awhile back. And then the guy was kinda pissed I didn't buy an S-90 when I told him I was "considering it." So I like the internet as well. I don't even mind paying the fees to return stuff because you end up paying a lot more if you don't use something because your unhappy.

 

Mike, Have you installed and expansion boards in your ES like the analog synth or new piano? Just curious.

 

Tom

[MikeT156]

Tom, you don't need that kinda crap from a sales rep. Listen, its a tough business and their margins are low, but if you didn't "commit" to that KB or give them a deposit, I wouldn't be back there any time soon. If he special ordered it for you with the understanding you were going to buy it, that's another matter.

 

Being that you're undecided, when the time comes, talk to Sweetwater. They will give you less than MAP prices if you establish what you expect to pay for something. Typically, they are not quite as low price as my other dealer, but their return policy is a lot more liberal, and their level of knowledge is the highest in the industry and are willing to do the necessary leg work. Example, I was considering a particular KB stand from Quiklok, and Robert asked me how much room I had both on the floor and to my ceiling to put that stand. I gave him the measurements, and then he said he'd call me back after he went in the show room and checked it out for me. 5 minutes later, he called and said it wouldn't fit comfortably in the area I wanted to put it. Then he suggested a different Quiklok stand that was actually less money than what I was originally looking at. I had him send it to me, and it WAS so much better than what I had first selected. Can't beat that with a stick. Tom, they are not going to be the absolute rock bottom price, but if you're serious about being a customer, the deal works out about the same when the day is done. I bought an ION, the stand, cables, he threw in a Motif ES training video, and gave me free freight for the order. When I compared it to what it would have cost me at my other dealer, it was the same.

 

Tom, I haven't bought any expansion cards for my MOTIF ES yet. I haven't needed too. I will at some point, but I haven't even gotten through all the sounds that come with the ES yet! I like the Orchestra Strings card more than anything else at this point. I do a lot of string arrangments and that would be something I would like beyond what comes with the Motif. I know there's a pretty incredible Vintage Keys card available from MOTIFATOR.COM that a friend of mine has for his ES, but I haven't gotten over to listen to it yet. (He lives a ways from me). Anyway, he's about the same age as me and grew up with the Oberheim's and Prophet's same as I did, and told me the Vintage Keys card for the MOTIF is pretty incredible. I have no need for the MOTIF piano card they just came out with. I'm more than satisified with the stock piano sounds. Kept in mind the MOTIF is a synth, you can change the factory patches and save them off to a user program, simple as that. Some of the Jazz players like that piano card a lot, so it might be of more interest to you than to me. That's what I like about the Motif-EXPANSION capability. Don't like the stock sounds? Buy what you want 3rd party. You may want to go to MOTIFATOR.COM and give a listen to some of the 3rd party libraries that are available. Worse comes to worse, you can get sample libraries and load it into the MOTIF. If you're pickie, (and you are) a workstation class board will wear a lot of hats. But if you want the sound of a NORD LEAD, buy the Nord if you're satisified with the rest of your KB rig. I think you just have to work out the best situation with the right dealer.

 

Mike T.

[hermanjoe]

Good advice on sweetwater. I have delt with them in the past and they have been helpful.

 

Synths I'm checking out:

 

Access Virus

Nord Lead 3

Anything new promising