How long has Phil Collins sucked?

[joegerardi]

[quote]Originally posted by strat0124: [b]My brother would argue that after Peter Gabriel left they sucked.[/b][/quote] "Wind and Wuthering" will always be my favorite: "Eleventh Earl Of Mar," "One For The Vine," "Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers... ...In That Quiet Earth," are quintessential Genesis, however "All in a Mouse's Night" RULES!

[Alndln]

As much as I don't like what Phil has done the past few years,I hesitate to slam a talented musician.It's not like he alway's sounded this way.

[Doctor Frankensteinway]

Oh, and what was that song from the "Spot the Pigeon" EP ~ that was a great song. I think circa '..and then there were three' Shoot. What was the single off of '..and then there were three' ? Yeah "Wind & Wuthering" Great keys on that one. I remember getting that and Gentle Giant's "Playing the Fool (Live)" and sitting all summer playing those records back to back, reading 'Lord of the Rings' and 'Dune' and getting the best tan I ever had. To be sixteeen again eh? Riding around all summer on your ten speed. Checking out the foxy ladies at the beach. Yes, I'm cutting the lawn [i]this afternoon, dad[/i] and then sneaking off into your room and strapping on the headphones. Maybe spin some Genesis. Maybe some 'Brain Salad Surgery' maybe a little PFM as a chaser . .. .then break out the Utopia 'Ra' album with that song about wee little elves with wee little electric guitars . .. [i]< sigh >[/i] What? Yes dad, I am going to rake up the leaves [i]today[/i], I swear . .and yeah yeah yeah I know, [i]tomorrow[/i] I'm looking for a job. [i]< rustle rustle . . . . roll . ... . . roll . . . . . flip ~ [b]spark *[/b] pfffffff ~ ~ fffffff ~ ~ f ~ f ~ [b]ttttT![/b][/i] Still, Phil Collins is still alive eh? Man. Nobody ever tells me anything. Next you'll be telling me that Villi Manilli is just some kind of lip sync band. Yeah, right.

[inadequate.com]

Phil Collins only sucks when he is standing up. When he sits down to play the drums I'll listen to him anytime.

[KHAN]

[quote]Originally posted by joegerardi: [b] "Wind and Wuthering" will always be my favorite: "Eleventh Earl Of Mar," "One For The Vine," "Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers... ...In That Quiet Earth," are quintessential Genesis, however "All in a Mouse's Night" RULES! [/b][/quote] joegerardi [b]RULES !!![/b] [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ KHAN (Always hopeful, yet discontent) [url=http://www.floydtribute.hpwebhost.com]www.floydtribute.hpwebhost.com[/url]

[joegerardi]

[quote]Originally posted by KHAN: [b] joegerardi [b]RULES !!![/b] [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [/B][/quote] Oh, no: Not me, Genesis of that era. I'm just a fan.

[soapbox]

"Regis, I'll go with 'B) Music is in the ear of the beholder.'" "Yes, that's my final answer!" Gotta love Phil, no matter what era; but I'll stick with "Lamb Lies Down" as the Genesis LP which stands up to the most listenings. [i]And I saw them perform it live![/i] [b]O h Y e a h ![/b]

[soapbox]

[quote]Originally posted by Doctor Frankensteinway: [i]I remember getting that and Gentle Giant's "Playing the Fool (Live)"[/i][/quote] I saw Gentle Giant play live twice: the "Free Hand" tour and the "Interview" tour. IMHO, they were the best progressive rock band ever!

[Bobro]

[quote]Originally posted by Anderton: [b] If someone gets off making New Age Polka CDs, fine.[/b][/quote] Hmmm, I've been calling what's marketed these days as "Dance" the "Millenium Polka" for a few years now... boom chick boom chick boom chick boom chick... I'm with my father-in-law on this one (doesn't happen often, imagine that)-Polka should have a shredding accordian player! Those androgynous waifs in fur-of-a-blue-Yeti getups are cute , but I'd rather while away the hours with a busty lass in a Dirndl any day. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] -CB

[Tusker]

Ok, I'll bite, but I'll try to bite differently. I think Phil has always sucked and he has always been brilliant. - 1973 Genesis - On Selling England by the Pound - Phil makes his first lead vocal contribution on a song called "more foll me". More like a thin piping sound than anything. Definitely a singer in the mold of famous drummers like Ringo Starr. Brilliant negotiator.. for persuadng the band to let him come out from behind the kit. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] - My favorite Phil- is Wind Wuthering and Trick of the Tail- The man made it seem like Gabriel hadn't contributed all that much to the group's writing.... at least in those two albums. Quite a trick.... especially right after The Lamb. - I thought a lot of 80's genesis sucked, but Phil took a band out of obsocurity into hit-making. His singing improved. And he persuaded women music buyers that he could be a 'romantic crooner' type. With his stature, general physhical presence and shininess of pate you gotta call that ... brilliant. - So let's fast forward to Tarzan. Anybody heard it? I think he did a very good job with the material he had. Strong melodies and lots of drama. True, some of them sound like Mama-era Genesis. But they are all strong. Lovely rich chord progressions too (musta been watching Banks closely all those years [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]). The one let-down on the video (to my taste) was the one he should have made shine. The apes find the camp and wreck it. Phil gets to build a rhythm bed from the crashes of pots and pans. Yummy. But instead of the sophisticated, catchy rhythm beds he did for Genesis and in songs like "Please take me home", all he contributes is a bouncy, child-like piece of writing that just doesn't hook you in. It certainly doen't measure up to great Disney fun tunes like "The bear necessities" and "I wanna be like you" even though you hear a few borrowed moments. Don't think the song would work that great for kids either. Definitely sucks. (IMO) - Phil the drummer ain't dead though. I tooka listen to his "live from paris" cd. he made a jazz orchestra rock. (Dunno how). Not many people can make a large ensemble groove. Phil did it. I'd rather he played fusion or prog, but you gotta admit with all these changes...he makes every change work for him. A final thought. This children's programming thing appears to attract unusual kinds of people. The other day I was watching the credits for my Two year old's Thomas the Train video and found to my horror that the narrator was . . . . . Ringo Starr! I guess old drummers never die. I wish they would drum more, though. Regards, Jerry This message has been edited by Tusker on 09-22-2001 at 07:59 AM

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[quote]Originally posted by Bobro: [b]Polka should have a shredding accordian player! [/b][/quote] I don't know about polka, but zydeco music certainly does... Zydeco music is probably the thing that made me shed whatever prejudices I had about the accordion and made me want my own (and now I have one!). Check out [url=http://www.buckwheatzydeco.com]Buckwheat Zydeco's[/url] stuff. OK, this post is off-topic, but I feel it's my duty to stick up for accordions whenever possible... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

[BP3]

Some have mentioned Gentle Giant and other prog bands. For those who like prog, what bands do you like? This message has been edited by TinderArts on 09-22-2001 at 01:32 PM

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

I like the old stuff. Various incarnations of Yes, early Kansas, the Who(weren't Quadrophenia and Tommy progressive rock ?), Hatfield and the North with the great Dave Stewart on keyboards, every Genesis album, and Marillion....especially with Steve Hogarth on vocals. A lot of progressive rock was overly complicated for my tastes and it lacked an emotional content that I look for in music. I tend to like simple song scructures and melodies....David Gilmour of Pink Floyd and Tony Banks of Genesis were writers that I admire a lot. They had the ability to mix a pop sensibility with more complex influences.

[fantasticsound]

I have to agree with a lot of Tusker's points. While I have several Phil Collins songs that make me want to poke my eyes out, rather than listen, I happen to think he's a wonderful writer, singer, and actor. Let's get the REAL schlock, IMO, out of the way. Sussudio, One More Night (One.. more... verse.. can-he-sing-just-One.. more.. verse... AUUUGGHH!!), Groovy Kind Of Love.. please go away. Now for the good stuff. I mentioned Trick Of The Tail, elsewhere on this forum. I LIKE "I Can't Dance". It's a sarcastic look at a macho guy who DOESN'T have the goods to attract women. Kind of another take a la Dire Straits' "Money For Nothing" theme. Someone claimed Phil's music isn't socially relavent. What universe do you live in? How about "Another Day In Paradise", "Jesus He Knows Me", and best of all, "No Son Of Mine". The latter is an impeccably crafted song (credited to Collins, Banks & Mike Rutherford) that comes alive in Phil's capable voice. I mentioned his acting skill, more in support of singing stories like this, rather than his use of it onscreen. All of this adds up to similar comments I could make about Eric Clapton, John Lennon, Elton John, or many other artists/bands. There's material they perform I dislike, and much that I love. I believe Phil sings for emotional release, for fun, and yes, for money. He's a professional musician. I know it hurts some of you that he actually made some music to be financially well off, but I disbelieve the thought that he produced any of his music simply to make more money than he would've playing what he LIKES. I'm not sure what you mean, Jeff at Tascam, when you patently call the majority of rich musicians ingenuine, or not [i]real[/i] musicians. I don't have the time to list the hundreds or thousands of rich musicians who put music first and success second, still amassing fortunes. It's a long standing ploy of the have nots to look upon the rich as being out of touch with "being real." It's garbage and, I believe, you know it. I don't believe most musicians are like Milli Vanilli or some of the most popular, manufactured boy band/girl band types. Relax guys. Making money doesn't equal selling out. ------------------ Neil [b]Reality[/b]: [i]A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.[/i]

[Bobro]

[quote]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [b] Someone claimed Phil's music isn't socially relavent. What universe do you live in? How about "Another Day In Paradise", "Jesus He Knows Me", and best of all, "No Son Of Mine". The latter is an impeccably crafted song (credited to Collins, Banks & Mike Rutherford) that comes alive in Phil's capable voice. I mentioned his acting skill, more in support of singing stories like this, rather than his use of it onscreen. All of this adds up to similar comments I could make about Eric Clapton, John Lennon, Elton John, or many other artists/bands. There's material they perform I dislike, and much that I love. I believe Phil sings for emotional release, for fun, and yes, for money. He's a professional musician. I know it hurts some of you that he actually made some music to be financially well off, but I disbelieve the thought that he produced any of his music simply to make more money than he would've playing what he LIKES. [/b][/quote] Now that I think about it, there was a tune, early '80s...Home By The Sea? I don't remember if was about an "old folks' home" but that's how I found it relevant- I worked in a couple "retirement homes" and the tune pops into my head to this day when I reflect on that. Like many other musicians, Phil Collins has done tunes I like, tunes I really dislike- as I've mentioned before on one of these forums, something doesn't suck just because I don't like it. I see him as an old-fashioned craftsman who makes some nice artwork sometimes. Wasn't even aware he made so much money- bully for him, no skin off my ass. -CB PS. Zydeco- some fine stuff there! Do they play accordian in zydeco or some relative like bandoneon, concertina, etc? I'm only recently learning how many different kinds of accordians there are.

[Froggytwanger]

I knew he sucked, but Who ? Froggytwanger

[offramp]

Bobro, you want shredding accordian players, the closest I've seen is a Polka band in Indianapolis called PolkaBoy. Always a draw, always a crowdpleaser. JeffTascamGuy, I suppose Keith Richards doesn't count as a millionaire musician. Neither, then, would EVH, Clapton, Sting, McCartney or Metheny. Damn. What a drag. I had 'em pegged wrong all this time. As far as Collins goes...I liked his first coupla solo albums; after that, started getting too glossy for me. And, one swipe at Motown and Motwon-inspired tunes was enough for me. 'Turn It On' will always be my favorite Genesis tune, followed by 'It's Gonna Get Better' (name may be wrong, a bit fuzzy right now) from that 1983 album with 'Home By the Sea' on it.

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[quote]Originally posted by Bobro: [b]PS. Zydeco- some fine stuff there! Do they play accordian in zydeco or some relative like bandoneon, concertina, etc? [/b][/quote] Just regular accordion, as far as I know.

[midispaceho]

All I can say is su-su-sudio (spelling?)

[Anderton]

Has anyone else noticed how often the "cat vomit" thread and the "Phil sucks" thread end up next to each other? Perhaps we could save some space by consolidating them into a single thread, titled "Does Phil Collins suck cat vomit?"

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

[quote]Originally posted by offramp@earthlink.net: [b]JeffTascamGuy, I suppose Keith Richards doesn't count as a millionaire musician. Neither, then, would EVH, Clapton, Sting, McCartney or Metheny. Damn. What a drag. I had 'em pegged wrong all this time.[/b][/quote] I was just being flip...obviously, there are some great musicians that managed to make a lot of money. But if you really want to examine my point...Phil Collins is a good example. Genesis was a moderately successful band with a huge underground following of people that liked progressively oriented, musically challenging tunes. Their [i]economic[/i] breakthrough happened only after they abandoned their style that they'd developed for the purpose of going after a wider audience. And it worked. Look at all the greatest jazz musicians of the 20th century. What percentage of them had mansions and yachts? My point was (and is): it is far easier to make the real big money being a [i]celebrity[/i] as opposed to a musician. If you're one of the few that can be both, then the world's a better place. But if you work like mad at mastering your craft for the sole purpose of making money, then you're in the wrong business. - Jeff

[Phil Collins]

Piss off. Wankers.

[KHAN]

Phil Collins ROCKS!!! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ..........not the real one ..... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] ------------------ KHAN (Always hopeful, yet discontent) [url=http://www.floydtribute.hpwebhost.com]www.floydtribute.hpwebhost.com[/url] This message has been edited by KHAN on 09-24-2001 at 04:26 PM

[Mark Zeger]

[quote]Originally posted by offramp@earthlink.net: [b] JeffTascamGuy, I suppose Keith Richards doesn't count as a millionaire musician. Neither, then, would EVH, Clapton, Sting, McCartney or Metheny. Damn. What a drag. I had 'em pegged wrong all this time. [/b][/quote] How did Pat Metheny find his way into that list? I doubt Pat's music is generating anywhere near this kind of revenue (though he's well worth it). He's never been the heavily-marketed jazz "poster child" Kenny G and Harry Connick Jr. once were, the spot now occupied by Diana Krall (and I happen to like Connick & Krall).

[BP3]

[quote]Originally posted by Phil Collins: [b]Piss off. Wankers.[/b][/quote] Phil, I piss off wankers every chance I get. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] This message has been edited by TinderArts on 09-24-2001 at 07:35 PM

[That Portland Dude]

This sounds like a bad joke, but I think it really is the case: the happier Phil's personal life, the worse his music sounds. No Jacket, the Miami Vice era, Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance all happened at a miserable low for his relationships, making anger and angst that came out in the music in a way that many people could relate to, putting fire and energy into the music. After he left Genesis and moved to Switzerland, he's had a pleasant time personally and doesn't have the drive to write cathartic music any more. Just my idea... Chris

[dansouth]

What exactly is the crime the Mr. Collins is supposed to have committed? Having hit albums? Being successful in the music business? Working with the best players? Being a great showman? Writing songs the musical novices can enjoy? Playing fusion that only players can enjoy? Being an extra in "A Hard Day's Night"? Being successful enough to become a household word, successful enough for Letterman to make jokes about him? Playing in multiple successful bands in addition to having his own successful solo career? Writing compelling songs that have been used in dozens of soundtracks? Creating a signiture drum sound that inspired legions of immitators? Being the first to use the TR-808 on a serious recording (thus singlehandedly inspiring its use in the techno revolution)? Sounds like a pretty good career to me! I can't believe that you guys are slamming the guy. A REAL musician, a world class drummer who actually made some money in the music industry. In this age of silicon teenage bimbos and prepackaged dancing pretty boy acts, I find it refreshing that a real musician CAN enjoy a little success in this business.

[Martin O]

[quote]Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: [b]What exactly is the crime the Mr. Collins is supposed to have committed? .[/b][/quote] He wrote 'I Can't Dance', made a video for it, and let MTV play it over and over and over...

[dansouth]

[quote]Originally posted by Martin O: [b] He wrote 'I Can't Dance', made a video for it, and let MTV play it over and over and over...[/b][/quote] Videos?? On MTV?? You're kidding, right? I thought that was some kind of reality TV network. They don't show MUSIC videos, DO THEY? [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Who among us has not written a bad song, except for those who have never written ANY songs?

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[quote]Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: [b]What exactly is the crime the Mr. Collins is supposed to have committed? Having hit albums? Being successful in the music business? Working with the best players? Being a great showman? Writing songs the musical novices can enjoy? Playing fusion that only players can enjoy? Being an extra in "A Hard Day's Night"? Being successful enough to become a household word, successful enough for Letterman to make jokes about him? Playing in multiple successful bands in addition to having his own successful solo career? Writing compelling songs that have been used in dozens of soundtracks? Creating a signiture drum sound that inspired legions of immitators? Being the first to use the TR-808 on a serious recording (thus singlehandedly inspiring its use in the techno revolution)? [/b][/quote] Thank you, Dan. Picking on Phil Collins is like picking on Paul McCartney's solo career... So what if you don't dig the newer stuff -- there's plenty of good stuff both folks have done in the past... Cut 'em some slack! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] This message has been edited by popmusic on 09-25-2001 at 08:08 AM