Let's write a song for the Tsunami victims!

[Shars]

Here here Foxtick, i couldn't have said it better

[Bunny Knutson]

Non-yeti, you obviously realize now that your "constructive criticism" has had no positive effect whatsoever. If you were actually trying to accomplish something constructive here, you have failed miserably.

 

[member 30687]

Takes two to communicate: one to speak a thought & one to hear it.

It may not be just my failure.

 

"For those with ears to hear..." J Hendrix

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by member # 30687 non- Yeti:

More importantly, I never had any but the gentlest suggestions that people be sure they were putting their efforts to the best use.

A re-reading of what I've said will bear that out.

I have re-read what you said several times.

 

but any real examination of pop musicians involved in newly created charities demonstrates that potential.

But this is really not a newly created charity, it's a fund raiser and awareness raiser for existing charities.

 

Lee Fier, the fact that I suggested that there may be other & more immediate ways to assist those suffering in this situation never presumed that any working here were only doing this. To quote someone I generally respect, "Where did you get that idea?"

I felt the implication of your bringing that up in this thread and context (as opposed to just posting your own threads in SSS about additional ways to help) was that everybody here must be somehow unaware that there were other, more immediate ways to help otherwise we wouldn't bother with this project. I think it's pretty obvious to most people that other methods of helping exist and what they are - it's been discussed all over the place including on these forums.

 

I'm sorry if my remarks strike you as overly defensive, but let me explain why that is: I've done a LOT of aid work in my life. I feel very uncomfortable tooting my horn about it, but let's just say that I've done a lot of very direct, firsthand aid work and have had the honor of working alongside many people who've made that their life's work. We're talking people who are directly involved in administering food, farming supplies, and medical aid to individuals desperately in need of it. THE most effective and direct form of charity possible.

 

And I always noticed that no matter what anybody did or how much they gave, somebody always had to stand on the sidelines and take potshots. Saying it's not enough, it'll never do any good, X method or Y method is more effective, blah blah blah. A huge percentage of aid workers who face people in poverty daily, already suffer from depression, feelings of inadequacy and guilt over how little they can do, so this just pisses me off incredibly.

 

And believe me, I'm well aware of the dangers of bogus and/or outright harmful charitable efforts. I've certainly done my best to steer people away from giving money to them or working for those organizations I feel are harmful. However this project was obviously not such a case and it doesn't take much digging to verify that. Whatever money is raised, is going to a reputable charity, and that's a few more dollars than they'd have gotten before.

 

Finally, one of my mentors when I started doing aid work luckily told me something extremely valuable which I've always remembered: "You know when you're on an airplane and they tell you that if you need to put an oxygen mask on your child, put your own mask on first and then help your child. You can't help anybody else if you don't take care of yourself first - you'll only add to the sum total of misery in the world because you'll be just another bitter used up person who can't do any more good for anyone. So, do whatever you are motivated to do and can do with good cheer - it will always be better than nothing."

 

Two other quotes that were always inspirational to me - one from Gandhi: "Nothing you do will be of any importance, but it is very important that you do it."

 

And one from Rev. Howard Thurman, a colleague of Martin Luther King: "Don't ask what the world needs. Find out what makes you come alive and then go and do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."

 

In that spirit, even if this project had "only" turned out to be as you say "a pat on the back," so what? If it's motivating to people and makes them more aware and cheerful and willing to help, if it makes people come alive in support of this cause... there's nothing bad that can come of that. Aid work does not have to involve martyrdom, and the grave nature of the cause certainly shouldn't exclude participants from, god forbid, having fun... staying motivated to fight another day, think about it another day, maybe come up with even more and better ways to help. That's fine.

 

So like I said, sorry if your remarks just came off to me as yet another of the inevitable naysayers that has to show up and throw a wet blanket on people who are quite probably working their asses off and already feeling tired and inadequate to the task at hand. I just don't see where any harm could possibly have come out of this project, and even had it been ineffective at raising much money, morale-raising and awareness-raising is important too. This is a huge, huge disaster and it's vital that it not "drop off the front page" so to speak, that people remain aware of its consequences and continue to give what they can for months and years to come.

[Philip OKeefe]

Lee, as always, thanks for the thoughtful posts.

 

Non-Yeti:

 

I've read your comments, and please understand that I'm not as agitated as some others apparently are with you. I appreciate, and share your concerns for the need for urgent and timely response to a disaster like this, as well as your thoughts about organization and "best efforts".

 

I'm not a rich man, nor do I posess SAR and other urgently needed skills. If I did, I'd already be over there. I'm just a lowly studio dude, and so what I am able to do, I've done. I gave of my limited finances, but I also gave of my time and used the skills I do have in an effort to help. If it raises awareness, if it generates additional funds (and it already has), then I feel it was a worthwhile use of my time and efforts.

 

I'm not looking for kudos or pats on the back... this project isn't about egos... it's about getting something done and trying to help any way we can. Most of us don't know squat about search and rescue or distribution of relief supplies. So we do what we can. Considering the scope of this disaster, and the years of reconstruction, relief and assistance that will be required, I would say that every little bit of help that anyone can contribute is worthwhile. And if music is what you "do", then why NOT try to find a way to utilize that skill in support of the cause?

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but that's my thoughts on the matter. I hope you can try to understand where I am coming from.

 

Best wishes,

[songrytr]

Hear, hear, Yeti-not...

 

There's a second benefit that goes on whenever people come together as we have in this project: People from all over the world come together with the best of intents. New friendships are made, existing ones strengthened.

 

For me, the incidental duties I took on in the first song brought me in direct, friendly, contact with others I would never have met otherwise. And every human being in every part of the world that I make a personal contact with gives me a LARGER perspective.

 

I don't think it's foolish for me to assume that the others on my TEAM feel the same way.

 

And this, in many ways, is every bit as important as the gesture of help.

 

[Sylver]

Originally posted by songrytr:

Hear, hear, Yeti-not...

 

There's a second benefit that goes on whenever people come together as we have in this project: People from all over the world come together with the best of intents. New friendships are made, existing ones strengthened.

 

For me, the incidental duties I took on in the first song brought me in direct, friendly, contact with others I would never have met otherwise. And every human being in every part of the world that I make a personal contact with gives me a LARGER perspective.

 

I don't think it's foolish for me to assume that the others on my TEAM feel the same way.

 

And this, in many ways, is every bit as important as the gesture of help.

 

If there was a standing ovation smilely, I would use it here.

 

I guess I'll have to settle for

[member 30687]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

...I always noticed that no matter what anybody did or how much they gave, somebody always had to stand on the sidelines and take potshots....

...inevitable naysayers that has to show up and throw a wet blanket on people who are quite probably working their asses off and already feeling tired and inadequate to the task at hand.

 

I suppose a lot of the response I'm getting is from over-stressed people who feel attacked, which is not what I ever did. I merely tried to suggest steering clear of some possible tendencies.

I wonder how it would've seemed if my comments came from someone recognized as involved...?

More acceptable? As unwelcome?

Maybe that's why I used this ID to post them...

 

This is a huge, huge disaster and it's vital that it not "drop off the front page" so to speak, that people remain aware of its consequences and continue to give what they can for months and years to come.

It would be good, as my last thoughts here on this, to remind that in Africa, as many or more die every week from famine, let alone the neglect (& tacit approval of the Western world) in wars, etc.

I sincerely hope that those who felt moved to do good in this case will not have been motivated by the season & will remember that those fed today will likely still be needing a new home & much more in the months yet to come.

[Bunny Knutson]

Originally posted by member # 30687 non- Yeti:

Maybe that's why I used this ID to post them...

 

Yes, it's true. You are anonymous. You won't even put your name behind your statements. I'm glad you've posted your "last thoughts" on this subject, so you can get back to fighting famine in Africa. How very noble of you!

 

This has been an interesting discussion, though, thanks to excellent posts by people like Lee and Songrytr.

[Philip OKeefe]

I sincerely hope that those who felt moved to do good in this case will not have been motivated by the season & will remember that those fed today will likely still be needing a new home & much more in the months yet to come.

 

I don't care very much about what motivates someone to "do good" - the fact that someone is motivated to "do good", and then does their best to do so, is IMO, the important thing. But your comments about the long term nature of this disaster, as well as the comments about other tragic situations in other areas of the world, are well taken.

 

There's a lot of people in the world, and a lot of problems. I can't help everyone... I can't do everything. But I can do SOMETHING. And if we all make an effort to do "something", the world would be a better place. So pick a cause, find a need, and contribute. Doesn't matter as much "how" as it does that we "do".

[member 30687]

Originally posted by Bunny.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by member # 30687 non- Yeti:

Maybe that's why I used this ID to post them...

 

Yes, it's true. You are anonymous. You won't even put your name behind your statements. I'm glad you've posted your "last thoughts" on this subject, so you can get back to fighting famine in Africa. How very noble of you!

 

This has been an interesting discussion, though, thanks to excellent posts by people like Lee and Songrytr. See ya, when you least expect it!

[Franknputer]

Maybe your view wouldn't be seen as unpopular, or provoke an attack, if you wouldn't make it seem as if you're belittling people for their charity - especially from behind an anonymous login.

[Bunny Knutson]

Originally posted by member # 30687 non- Yeti:

You seem to be missing the point about anonymity, Bunny.

I don't think I'm missing your point. However, I do think this anoymous login has actually hurt your cause more than helped it. I would MUCH prefer having THIS particular conversation with an identified individual.

 

Originally posted by member # 30687 non- Yeti:

Has it occured to you that you may have had very cordial relations with me under antoher name? Perhaps I even was part of this project.

Of course it has occurred to me, silly! In fact, I think I know "who" you are. I'm fairly certain that I've had at least one other really good conversation with you very recently. I much prefer that other login's attitude, by the way. And, no, you were not part of this project. Heheh.

 

I think we're finished here, aren't we? We know where everybody stands, and we seem to have worked this out. I'm happy that the project has been successful, and I also understand the importance of a little devil's advocate discussion.

 

It's all good, in my book.

[FoxTick]

Bunny, check your PMs

[Chris.]

sorry for bumping this thread, i've not been about for a while!

 

Originally posted by member # 30687 non- Yeti:

Chris, I'd think my fellow forumites mostly don't need financial support

did anyone think i meant that?

 

Chris do you think that only those in full agreement with you are welcome in "your" community?

sheesh.

 

Well said everyone else!! I maybe wasn't as articulate as i shou'dve been.

[member 30687]

This was almost a Private Message to Bunny but the coninued attite of some forces me to put this statement here in hopes that it might have an effect to make public some facts.

 

I'm well older than most at these forums so I can to a degree overlook the jejune attitude of some but at this point I must be forthright.

In recent years I've thought to offer certain ideas (of how to see our similarities rather than differences; of what unites humanity, not divides us) in a way divorced from personality so that the ideas would be the point, not who I am or what some think of me but I am recognizing that some will just not accept that. They'll attach a "personality" to me even if it's created from their own reactions.

 

No matter what any may think now or claim in the future, they have no idea who I am and the presumptions stated so far are inaccurate. My anonymity is not a whim. My posts are routed through a network at a large public institution well remote from my actual home, so even the attached IP address is no clue.

 

I've been near-universally attacked in this thread. Only one individual has disagreed with me in a restrained manner. One person, for whom I've never voiced anything but respect for making her way in a traditionally "man's" world has deigned to lecture me on the proper demonstration of respect and caring for mankind...others have been more forward in what my son would call "giving me attitude".

 

Why?

Because I had the temerity to offer that the remark "...the worst that could happen is we'd have a trck for the next Keyboard Compilation" might reflect an unintended thoughtlessness about this disaster in Asia. Does it even register with anyone that I cited only the remark, never naming anyone or attacking them for making it?

Most of my heritage would've been more blunt, pointing out that such thoughtlessness would be patently offensive if the context were different.

Consider this: if in mid-September 2001 someone had suggested "Let's wite a song for those recently murdered in Washington, Pennsylvania and Manhatten...the worst that could happen is that we'll have a track for the next Compilation", how would that sound?

What outrage would've sprung up!

Does anyone now begin to see how such a remark really sounds? Or how understated my response?

 

I'd like to think some may finally grasp this point, though I fear the reaction will continue as before, if not from dB then from the Greek Chorus that's attached itself like a tick to this controversy.

 

So have at the last word, those who already know they're right and fear not to declare themselves righteously indignant. Burn the heretic!

 

(Editing a typo only)

[Philip OKeefe]

No, I agree with you. I personally wouldn't think of the collaboration project song(s) as something appropriate for the Keyboard Comps. I've contributed to a couple of those, and those are mostly "for fun" projects and an opportunity to share what we do with one another. Those tracks and compilations are usually not collaborative in nature (at least most of them do not involve the contributions of several forumites, although I see no reason why they couldn't, if people wanted to do that), and the CD's are sold "at cost" - no profit is made off of them, nor is money intended to be made off of them. And usually only a few dozen copies are "made to order", and then they go out of print.

 

In this case, the project was intended as a collaboration, to be offered for public donations, with all proceeds to be given to charity in support of Tsunami disaster relief. All contributions were voluntary, all work was donated, and hopefully, those efforts will generate additional funds for disaster relief beyond what we individually contributed with our personal donations. Some of us may have only been able to contribute $20 or $100, but by contributing to this project, that allowed people to generate additional funds, beyond what they would have otherwise been able to give.

 

They're really two different animals, and while I think the original comment was probably unfortunate and not well considered (and I have not bothered to look to see who made it - it really doesn't matter), I think we're probably blowing it way out of porportion by this point. The fact remains that we all pitched in, did something to help via the skills we had, and that was in addition to other contributions that various individuals made via other avenues. The site is up, funds are being generated, and IMO, that's nothing but a "good thing".

[Franknputer]

I suppose it could be interpreted that way, but I personally don't see the problem with the comment. The idea of creating something that might raise some funds, that at least, if no funds end up getting raised, one would still have the creation - that does not sound self-serving to me.

 

Your initial post, intended or not, popped up in the middle of a group of people excited about contributing their talents to the effort and basically said, "Well, it probably won't do any good..."

 

Also - anonymity is your prerogative, but it does nothing to aid your credibility, no matter how much older you think you are than the rest of us.

 

And you wonder why people didn't welcome your input???

[Bunny Knutson]

Hi. I think I've said all I need to say in this thread. However, you are all very interesting conversationalists, so I'm still reading.

[nursers]

As the person who made the comment, I will detail its rationale. At time of suggesting the collaboration I had no idea whether there would be any interest whatsoever.

 

If there had been little or no interest then anything recorded would (with permission of the creators) been submitted to the KC Comp CD, as it's non-profit. The next KC volume is particularly meaningful as it's dedicated to a forum member who died in recent months, RobT.

 

So I agree with Phil that the whole comment has been incredibly blown out of proportion.

[Franknputer]

I didn't know you had inflatable comments. Are they available on the website?

[nursers]

Originally posted by Christopher Kemp:

I didn't know you had inflatable comments. Are they available on the website?

But of course

[Philip OKeefe]

Originally posted by nursers:

As the person who made the comment...

 

Oh GREAT - now I'm gonna get banned for sure!

 

So I agree with Phil that the whole comment has been incredibly blown out of proportion.

 

Well, at least we agreed on that... so hopefully that, along with my longstanding history of promoting your most excellent website will keep me from getting kicked out of here.

 

[songrytr]

Originally posted by member # 30687 non- Yeti:

Only one individual has disagreed with me in a restained manner.

Hmmm...I think I should take umbrage at that remark.

 

In fact, I think I will.

 

Umbrage taken.

 

[nursers]

Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:

Originally posted by nursers:

As the person who made the comment...

 

Oh GREAT - now I'm gonna get banned for sure!

 

So I agree with Phil that the whole comment has been incredibly blown out of proportion.

 

Well, at least we agreed on that... so hopefully that, along with my longstanding history of promoting your most excellent website will keep me from getting kicked out of here.

 

[Bunny Knutson]

Originally posted by songrytr:

Originally posted by member # 30687 non- Yeti:

Only one individual has disagreed with me in a restained manner.

Hmmm...I think I should take umbrage at that remark.

 

In fact, I think I will.

 

Umbrage taken.

 

So, songrytr, are you claiming that your manner has been stained more than once? Apparently, my manner has only been stained one time. If that.

 

Phil, however, has a nice, restained manner. Mahogany?

[jlampson]

There was a huge misunderstanding here.

The misunderstanding has been cleared up.

There is a greater cause.

People are working together.

Herein ends this limerick.

[Bunny Knutson]

Man, that limerick SUCKED! Please don't bust out the haiku!

[jlampson]

I do not know humor.

You have hair.

Some, that is, but nice.

[nursers]

SOME hair? Bunny just about has a mullet!!!