Internotes, and distribution....

[Rim]

Originally posted by Ani:

I just visited CD Baby's site to read their Terms of Use, and they "HAVE NONE" ahhhhhhhhhh.... explain that one to me! Once your works are in their hands, initiated by YOU, where have you covered your butt as to what they can do with your product? Obviously you are granting them freedom of use, but to what degree have you limited their exploitation of your materials without having that written agreement between the two parties? Point me to where "I" can read "CD Baby's" TOU... I'd really like to see it!

I stand corrected. I couldn't find their terms of use either. I was checking out cafepress.com at the same time as cdbaby.com and got confused - I guess it was cafepress.com that specifically stated on their site of their non-exclusive rights to artwork you upload. It may be worth getting Lee Flier's and Erik's (CDMN) opinion on this.

[ani]

I have looked at Cafe Press, and have actually spoke with them over the telephone concerning their services. They charge a flat $4.99 per CD sold through their service, http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/products/productdetail.aspx?prodtypeno=93 and my question is this...

 

JackPine has agreed to do small quantity orders for the price of $5.00 each to MPN members that may want a single disk or a handful of disks each. If memory serves me correctly, that included shipping costs. He is set up with PayPal, so orders can go directly through him for those that want small orders. Jim (JackPine) can correct me if I'm wrong about the postage being included, but if this is correct, small time business is best suited in the hands of one of our own.

 

It is the mass production and commercial release that I would even bother seeking investors for, and that's where all of this talk about nada came about for CD Baby, Cafe Press, and likewise. If you folks have the money to put up and WANT to put up the cash to commercially market these works.... AND THEN want to turn around an hand non-exclusive rights over to CD Baby or pay Cafe Press their fees for their services, then whatever..... I'll pull out of it and not waste my time seeking the potential of finding investors willing to put up enough money to commercially market this CD. I'll give my orders to JackPine whose humble offer to help out is MORE than adequate for small time quantities; he is not asking for ANY terms of use contracts, just recovery fees for his materials and postage.

[Rim]

Originally posted by Ani:

It is the mass production and commercial release that I would even bother seeking investors for, and that's where all of this talk about nada came about for CD Baby, Cafe Press, and likewise. If you folks have the money to put up and WANT to put up the cash to commercially market these works.... AND THEN want to turn around an hand non-exclusive rights over to CD Baby or pay Cafe Press their fees for their services, then whatever..... I'll pull out of it and not waste my time seeking the potential of finding investors willing to put up enough money to commercially market this CD. I'll give my orders to JackPine whose humble offer to help out is MORE than adequate for small time quantities; he is not asking for ANY terms of use contracts, just recovery fees for his materials and postage.

I actually mentioned CafePress in case we wanted to also offer merchandise, but not for selling CDs.

 

If you can find investors to fund mass marketing our CD then I support that as long as not much cash outlay is needed from us. If it can be done without any cash outlay from us, then I would support that flat out. My personal feeling is, it may be better to start with small quantities and see what the market for it is. And yes, for this, I would agree on accepting Jack's offer.

 

But I am only one voice out of many. It would be good to hear what the other collaborators think.

[Franknputer]

CD Baby's contract for the Digital Download service is here.

 

The terms for their selling your CD are stated here. This arrangement is really pretty simple - they're an online record store. If you've ever done a consignment deal with an independant record store you can see the similarity.

 

I'm not jumping into the debate about what to do with the CD. My points in this discussion concern only the merits of doing business with these folks. I don't have any ties to them at all, but a lot of people think pretty highly of them, and I am very glad that somebody's providing an opportunity to the mainstream music business, which I think is far more full of itself - or full of something - than it ought to be.

 

Better to have an outlet to get your hard work out to people than to beg & plead for someone to bestow you with the honor of 'being big', at least until the next thing comes along...or the fiscal year rolls over...or your A&R guy gets the axe...or your band breaks up because you can't pay back the advance...etc, etc...

[ani]

Chris,

 

We ALREADY have our small time sales COVERED, there's no need for CD Baby or likewise. The Glass Master is setting in the hands of JackPine, also, he has the finished cover art for packaging needs. These were things that were discussed and AGREED upon in the past. He is set up on PayPal, and those wanting to order can order from him directly. There's no need for CD Baby or CafePress or any other small time distributor; IT HAS ALREADY BEEN TAKEN CARE OF... a long time ago.

 

As I said before, my concerns for investors would be to drum up enough funds to mass produce these efforts and commercially market them.

[Franknputer]

Originally posted by Christopher Kemp:

I'm not jumping into the debate about what to do with the CD. My points in this discussion concern only the merits of doing business with these folks.

[nursers]

My 2 cents worth:

 

1. Ani, I think your view on where the album should go are more than commendable, and there is definitely a chance it may go places.

 

2. I too am willing to support any effort in this regard, even financially to a very small level (think up to $100) - that's about all I can afford.

 

3. That services like CD baby do seem an option - perhaps we put a time frame on trying for outside investment, and then if that doesn't work then services like CD Baby may definitely be the way to go.

 

Sound reasonable? In the immediate term I am just keen to get a copy of the very cool CD that has been produced

[Mr.WOW]

I can put up $100 bucks to help cover some of the cost.

[ani]

3. That services like CD baby do seem an option - perhaps we put a time frame on trying for outside investment, and then if that doesn't work then services like CD Baby may definitely be the way to go.

Sounds reasonable enough Nursers, but one thing, the time for investment potential does not begin until ALL loose ends are tied up and written contractually in writers' agreements and ownership rights. This is so that investors can be assured that they are investing in a well thought out plan that does not have any sinkers in it; they won't find unorganized efforts to be attractive at all. If you're looking for a "record deal", business plans are not something they want to deal with; but if you are looking at investment from corporate businesses, it is essential to have a solid outline of expenses and strategies.

 

This needs to be done even if CD Baby or Cafe Press were to become an option. If there is any income to be derived from such efforts, then it would become an issue as to how the moneys were divided in the event profits were to start rolling in.

 

Actually, I don't see where an Advantage Package or a Merchant Program with Amazon is at all out of reach compared to the prices that CD Baby and Cafe Press ask; plus you would have International availability through one of the largest chains in the world. Their service has proven itself time and again for reliability, and they track all merchandise while providing their vendors itemized statements of sales; they scan each UPC which is entered into a database made available to major music retailers for tracking popularity. With the Advantage Package, if a buyer has not received his goods, Amazon will stand behind the order to ensure the customers needs are met. There won't be hassles of someone saying they paid and didn't receive. CD Baby can't even put their terms of use in print, how in the world am I supposed to anticipate that they would be a reliable source for handling consumer product?

 

It's all about having the cash upfront to make the product available in the first place. If CD Baby holds your product in inventory, as would Amazon on the Advantage platform that asks for 55% of sales, and then they mail out mass quantities for the $5.00 flat fee they ask, then CD Baby might be feasible; but with the way they do business, I highly doubt they could come close to Amazons sophisticated tracking and delivery technology for the price. Keep in mind that if a CD were to sell for $10.00, 55% of $10.00 is $5.50 ..... only $0.50 more than what CD Baby is asking.

 

I did not see any details as to CD Baby being available to mail out hard copies or even as much as wording about how the inventory would be handled; SHADY BUSINESS if you ask me. Where can you justify a company's validity if they fail to put their terms of use in print and they do not have a detailed explanation of their operational procedures for one to review if considering doing business with them? If they don't stock the product and mail it upon demand, plus provide adequate tracking information, then $5.00 is unreasonable for them to ask of a $10.00 to $15.00 CD that the person might have to mail out themselves. Also, I doubt that they do international shipping, even if they did keep the product in inventory.

 

As for CafePress, I called them and discussed their CD distribution process and they said that they would actually press the CD and distribute it upon order. When I began questioning what quality of disk they burned onto; NO ONE HAD A CLUE! Good deals often come with bad seeds, if these people are serious about doing legitimate business transactions, then they are going to be prepared to answer the questions asked. If they don't have the answers right then, they should take notes and find the information out and return the call with the requested details.

 

CafePress has gain recognition for their printed merchandise, but I've no reference as to the quality of their CD reproduction skills. The works of this CD in many cases, are not the works of home studio engineers; many that participated in the production of this project have full blown professional studios. One, I know of has Platinum Credits to his name. If you take quality works and then pass them off onto cut rate reproduction services, the name goes down into the mud real quick. For all I know, CafePress might use Imation data disks in their replication process; they might use the cheapest crap on the market because it's a good deal.... BUT, if it doesn't hold up and starts flaking off, then the consumer will assume that the poor quality is in the production and then it comes back on US!!! Had CafePress sought the information out and returned a call with the name of disks they use to replicate on; I wouldn't be so apprehensive in pursuing them.... at least enough to ask them to provide references as to users of their service. If they are a reputable manufacturer/replicater of disks, then they won't have a problem in providing the information. The girl I spoke with didn't even have a clue as to who I should talk to that would be capable of answering the questions. I gave her my number but never received a call back.

 

With Amazon, we select the replicator of disks and ensure that the disks used in the process meet our minimum expectations. We pay the upfront costs and supply the inventory, and Amazon does the rest. There are NO exclusive or non-exclusive rights granted to anyone. If we want to do the shipping of our own merchandise and we just want to use Amazon for their ordering process and wide exposure, then we only pay 15% of sales and a flat $0.99 per item. If we have to ship our own product out from CD Baby, then CD Baby is a big rip off.

 

As for splits that need to be discussed...

 

I say that a small portion of generated income, up to a set amount, could be graciously handed over to MusicPlayer to help support the forums; but it should also be taken into consideration the levels of dedication that all involved put into the project.

[ani]

As far as CD Baby taking on sales with as little as 5 disks and not requiring a large upfront investment; JackPine will take orders as needed and fill them for small scale orders. What more can you ask for.... far better than CD Baby if you ask me.

[ani]

BTW,

 

After that long assed post... Thank you Nursers and Wow for your offers. It may come down to us all pitching in if everyone can't come to an amicable agreement in terms.

[PBBPaul]

Originally posted by Ani:

BTW,

 

After that long assed post... Thank you Nursers and Wow for your offers. It may come down to us all pitching in if everyone can't come to an amicable agreement in terms.

You can count me in too. Sorry I don't come around as much as I have in the past but if there's anything I can do, just let me know.

[ani]

Thanks Paul

[Franknputer]

Geez...read the page, it's all laid out. YES, they ship it for you, same day. YES, they send your UPC info to SoundScan. NO, there is no exclusive contract. The terms are very simple, and they are spelled out in print on the web site. If you want to know the name of the guy in the warehouse who's going to tape up the box, then drop them an email.

 

Amazon is all well and good, but then people have to look & find you there. CD Baby caters to people who are looking for independant music, while Amazon is pretty much the Wal-Mart of the Web.

[ani]

Chris,

 

I browsed all through CD Baby's site, not to find their terms; can you provide a link?

[ani]

Amazon is all well and good, but then people have to look & find you there.

That's why I mentioned earlier, when making reference to Amazon, that MusicPlayer could direct link to the product and it's image using thier Associate Program with Amazon. Any MusicPlayer member that has their own site that carries an Associate Program could do the same. It would be encouraged to MPN members to buy through MusicPlayer's Amazon link so that MPN would be able to receive a small percentage automatically.

[Franknputer]

Originally posted by Christopher Kemp:

CD Baby's contract for the Digital Download service is here.

 

The terms for their selling your CD are stated here.

[ani]

Okay,

 

I went back to their website to TRY finding the "all spelled out" in print that you refer to and this is what I came up with....

 

This is the search result when I typed in the keywords "Terms of Service"

 

Sorry! Try again...

Type even one word into any box here

 

Wow! You stumped us! Try another search, or contact us to suggest a CD we don't carry.

Hey.... now that's a great name for a new CD release. "Terms of Service"

 

I tried using the "one word" they mention and entered "Terms"; this is the result here: http://www.cdbaby.com/found?allsearch=terms&allsearchsubmit=Search

 

Curiously I continued to skim over every page in their site to find some sketchy outline in their "ABOUT US" page. This is the ONLY part of service that you spoke about that is in writing...

We only sell CDs that come directly from the musicians. No distributors. Musicians send us CDs. We warehouse them, sell them to you, and pay the musicians directly.

Here is the link for reference, but the page says absolutely nothing about UPC scanning, tracking, or any type of customer satisfaction policies http://www.cdbaby.com/about

 

Also, I couldn't help but notice the fact that these words are NOT talking to the artist, they are talking to the buying customer...

 

We warehouse them, sell them to you , and pay the musicians directly

I'm not interested in buying my OWN product back from myself.

 

I don't want to see some sketchy outline of what they CLAIM to do, I want to see Terms laid out straight forward in contractual form.

 

Let's just take a for instance, no one thought that MP3.com would go belly up, but when they did it left a LOT of people scrambling to find new hosts to get thier materials online again. With Tower Records getting involved with CD Baby, as did the RIAA get involved with MP3.com, there is no guarantee as to what might become of it. If you have a 1000 CD's sitting in their possession and the company folds or sells out to other interests; where are your terms that protect YOUR investment of inventoried stock. They are not obligated to return your merchandise because you failed to cover YOUR ass in written contracts.

 

Again, I followed the link to their "People" page and was truly impressed by the professionalism used. "Fixer of Shit" was a good one. http://www.cdbaby.com/people

 

If these people do not take their position of business seriously enough to use diplomacy in their bio's, then how am I supposed to take what they do seriously?

[ani]

I don't know how you arrived at that page you linked without actually going into the enrollment process because it is not available from their main pages. Ah, but wait, yes... now I see that they also own the .NET domain that is not connected to their .COM domain.

 

In trying to find their terms, I have already seen enough while browsing through their site to make my skin crawl. Especially on their Hosting Services page where they make this claim:

 

This website will be ALL yours! (yourname.com) No need to send your fans to someone else's website anymore! You can have everything you need on your OWN site. Then it can be yours, permanently for life!

http://www.hostbaby.com/

 

Say what???? Anyone with a brain knows that if you don't renew your domain name periodically, it will be bought out from underneath you. Permanently for life is a pretty broad statement for them to make and would be very misleading to unsuspecting subscribers trusting them to handle their needs.

 

I did however, initially find the digital distribution terms, but as stated earlier; that is the one under scrutiny. I'm not interested in it at all.

[Franknputer]

Google is your friend. I got right to the appropriate pages at CDBaby.net, as well as finding the following:

 

Here is an analysis of the CD Baby Digital Distribution contract by an actual entertainment attorney. It's in 2 parts - look at the bottom of the page for the link to Pt. II.

 

Here's another version of the Moses Avalon story, which includes a point-by-point rebuttal of MA's claims.

 

Actually, I'm impressed - it seems that an awful lot of people have extremely positive things to say about CD Baby's business practices, including the DD service. I'm actually having a harder time finding negative opinions. That, to me, speaks a volume or two.

[ani]

Chris,

 

I read the attorney's point of view, and I'm not sure where you see that she is actually SUPPORTING the service as much as she is giving and overview while trying to remain objective.

 

Here she expresses some of the same concerns as what I have in the wording of the contract...

 

http://vybr8r.com/articles/analysis-cd-baby-digital-distribution-agreement-1.php

 

Clearly I am not crazy about the fact that CDBABY can modify the agreement at any time , but having drafted Internet music contracts myself I know that this is a very desirable right for an Internet music site to have as this area of music business practices and the law is in such a state of flux that the contract needs to be flexible. You have to have a certain amount of trust in the business practices of CDBABY. (If you don't have that basic sense of trust then just click the "No Thanks" button below and choose not to do business with them.) If you don't like the changes CDBABY makes, you can terminate the contract by giving them thirty (30) days written notice. I would like to see the termination procedure outlined more clearly in the Termination section and not just located in the Definition of Term.

First look at the definition in "e" to learn that Rights Holder's Content "means sound recordings and underlying musical compositions" that you have provided to CD Baby to be digitally distributed. Then you can see that Digital Master is a digital form of the sound recording and underlying composition that you are authorizing CD Baby to sell as a download, stream or burn.

 

b. "Distributor" means any third party, such as Apple iTunes, that CD Baby may authorize to carry out the marketing, distribution and sale or other use of the Digital Masters pursuant to the terms of this Agreement.

 

CD Baby is telling you it will make agreements with "one deep" distributor/retailers. I don't like the vagueness of the "or other use" language.

a. Subject to the terms of this Agreement, RIGHTS HOLDER hereby appoints CD BABY as RIGHTS HOLDER's exclusive authorized representative for the sale and other distribution of Digital Masters. Accordingly, RIGHTS HOLDER hereby grants an exclusive right to CD BABY, during the Term, to:

 

This is an EXCLUSIVE agreement for the sale and other distribution of the Digital Masters throughout the world. (Again, "other distribution" should be better defined.) This could mean you cannot sign up with another digital distributor like The Orchard or maybe even your local internet radio station that might be selling downloads, or for that matter your own site or your friend's site that is giving downloads and streams away. Let's look at the definitions: Digital Masters means copies of your sound recordings and underlying musical compositions in digital form.

 

So I have a problem with this and accordingly "i-v" below as far as the exclusivity nature goes. I would suggest that this Agreement with CD Baby be EXCLUSIVE vis a vis the named One Deep distributor/retailers that CD Baby should name in the agreement and specifically in "vi" so long as those named distributor/retailers s are actually making the digital files of Artist available for distribution and I would give CD Baby the right to amend the names from time to time. That way you can sell downloads from your local Internet radio station, your own site, etc. And remember you always have the right to terminate this agreement upon 30 days notice, but that language needs to made more prominent as recommended.

 

This woman is expressing her concerns all over the place and yet she questions Moses A. concern here:

 

No problem with b. above but note that just because you submit your CD for digital distribution, does not mean it will be offered for distribution. That is a chance you take. I don't know why Moses is supposing that CD Baby could sell the actual CDs to brick and mortar stores. If it is in this paragraph 2, I don't see it.

But yet clearly, as stated above, she questions the loose language of "other use"

 

b. "Distributor" means any third party, such as Apple iTunes, that CD Baby may authorize to carry out the marketing, distribution and sale or other use of the Digital Masters pursuant to the terms of this Agreement.

 

CD Baby is telling you it will make agreements with "one deep" distributor/retailers. I don't like the vagueness of the "or other use" language.

Or Other Use covers a broad territory and I can definitely see Moses' concerns. He's been around in the Industry a long time and knows the foul practices that they are capable of carrying out. What are the credits to this woman's name???

 

Here is a line right up front that sent red flags up for me...

 

Essentially you will be contracting with a distributor who will be contracting with a distributor/retailer. This is somewhat analogous to "two deep" distribution. Since there are two levels of distributors (a distributor and a "distributor/retailer"), both levels of distributors will need to be compensated before you get your money, but as you will see CD Baby's cut is in my opinion extremely reasonable.

CD Baby is asking for $4.00 rather than the $5.00 I mentioned earlier, but still, you have THEIR cut of the sales and THEN you have the second level of a cut by the "distributor/retailer" meaning iTunes, et al. By the time the cuts are taken two deep, what's left over? If CD Baby is getting $4.00 for their cut, do you honestly think that iTunes is going to settle for less while allowing their name to be attached??? I think not!

 

THANK YOU Chris, that was a great article expressing yet another attorney's concerns about the vagueness in the written terms.

 

And for what it's worth, I personally have been asked to write articles for the MusicDish as an Associate writer, and also quite some time ago I was approached to become a partner in sharing their publications on my site. It was recently requested that I host articles written by MA from another source. My site is not an e-zine, it is merely a portal of information that caters as much to the trade industry, if not more so, than the music industry.

 

I've not bothered to finish reading page two of this attorneys article, nor will I bother to read the next link you posted on MA. Just in what I posted above clearly shows there are too many loopholes involved.

 

I'm not going to continue hashing this out with you, as it's wasted energy. I have far too many other things to do than to try proving a point. I think that there is clearly enough evidence that has already been uncovered for folks to get an idea of my skepticism in the use of CD Baby.

 

Furthermore, I would like to remind folks of the last time you got involved saying that this project would complete itself without a manager. Just provide the FTP space for folks to upload into and it would manifest itself. I deliberately backed off to allow that to happen. We all KNOW how well it went... NOWHERE!!!

[Franknputer]

There's not much point going on about it, since your mind is already made up. But, incidentally, you misread the terms. With Digital Download, the artist gets 91% of the net paid to CD Baby for your song: If it sells for .99 cents, and iTunes (or whoever) takes .49 cents, they then pay CD Baby .50 cents, of which you get about .45 cents.

 

The $4 is for selling you CD.

[ani]

Chris,

 

As far as CD Baby is concerned, I personally don't want to pour "my" efforts into soliciting for investors to turn my business over to a company that I don't feel comfortable with. If all those that had musical contributions on the project don't want to ride it out and get the paperwork done to present to potential investors who would be interested in mass marketing our works; then it's dead in the water anyway. As I have said more than once, small orders have been covered.

 

This is the ONLY thing that has been set in stone... The decision to use JackPine as our small time distributor was made clear back in December of 2003 when we began pulling this project all together. This is the original quote for services offered by JackPine that we agreed upon. That is why "HE" is the one that received the glass masters, the cover art, and etc.

 

jackpine

 

Platinum Member

Member # 14904

 

posted 12-07-2003 10:15 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the completely unofficial duplicator and fulfillment guy, here on the boards, I thought I'd offer you all my services.

 

Having done the last bunch of "Keyboard Corner" comp discs and before that the FATCO comps at the "Studio Business Forum" I'd be happy to do the printing, duping and mailing for your comp as well.

 

What I do for dB over at the Keyboard Corner is a full CD Package. Tayio Yuden Printwrite disk (with printing on disk), Bi-fold 4 page insert/cover, U-card, Jewel case, mailer, and postage anywhere on the planet for 5 bucks a disk.

 

For a cheaper solution you could go with just a disk(with printing) in a tyvek sleeve, mailer and postage for 2.50 a disk.

 

This is essentially just over cost for me.

 

The system is top o' the line microboards Saturn II. Set me back 7k, but I do a lot of duping.

 

Just though I'd offer......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posts: 1055 | From: Luck,WI | Registered: Feb 2001

[ani]

Tower Records partnering with CD Baby

 

http://www.ejazznews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2277

 

Tower Records recent filing for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2004-02-05-tower-bankruptcy_x.htm

 

With Tower holding interest in CD Baby's stock, who knows how far this will go?

[Franknputer]

How do you figure that? there's NOTHING about stock interests in either story. Tower's parent company filing for Chapter 11 doesn't appear to have a thing to do with the solidity of CD Baby.

 

Hell, if you want to put 2+2 together, one of the things that Tower is blaming for their woes is digital downloads - which CD Baby can support - and the cost of running brick and mortar stores, which CD Baby does not.

 

Also from the ejazznews article:

Praised as one of the independent music world's greatest successes, CDBaby.com is an industry leader in exposing consumers to independent music. With over 50,000 titles available - and growing daily ­ CD Baby has created an outlet for the independent artist to level the playing field and offer their CDs for sale to a worldwide audience.

 

To date, CD Baby has 50,000 artists using their services, has sold over 600,000 CDs to customers worldwide, and paid over $5 million dollars to musicians. Based in Portland Oregon, CD Baby is now the largest seller of all-independent CDs on the web.

As far as the project is concerned, it's great that Jackpine is willing to do all that he offered. For the 3rd time...I am not suggesting that the CD be sold through CD Baby. However, I really don't think it's right that you are trying so hard to tear down their image on the basis of conjecture. If you had dealings with them, that would be different - but you are pushing a very negative picture of a business that seems, by all acounts except Moses Avalon's, to be doing a lot of good for a lot of musicians.

[Franknputer]

BTW - your PM box is full.

 

I don't know about the musicmatch jukebox thing - I never had any use for it - but here's a counter claim from someone who is not trying to launch a competing download service:

http://www.redchairsoftware.com/anapod/itvmm.php

 

The other story you sent is talking about how Real is subverting Apple's DRM scheme & not paying them...so as to who the dirty one is...

 

RealPlayer has been a fairly low-quality piece of bloatware for a long time now. They don't garner a lot of my sympathy for stuff like this.

[ani]

Actually, I can't stand RealPlayer, but thought it odd that the wording in that article was talking about eleminating ALL competition, rather than just Real. Combined with what took place with MusicMatch and the deletion of critical files, it makes me frown highly on their business tactics. I run MusicMatch Jukebox and it is my preferences above all. I personally have had to uninstall it and delete other files that consumed my audio and video files and then redownload and install it. AOL with "REALPLAYER" was the culprit at the time, but the fact is, I don't like any invasive software that infiltrates my system and overrides my selected choices of default players. I won't install RealPlayer either, and there are several folks that put music up here on the forums that I turn away from listening to because the system their files are hosted on require me to install the latest plugs from Real or other invasive programs. I'll walk away from it rather than to have my selection of choice be violated. There are too many other things out there to listen to.

 

I "do" look at the 2 + 2 in putting Tower together with CD Baby, especially with the loose language written inside their contract... centering on the "by other means" clause that was entered. This opens the door to "brick and mortar" distribution, which is all that Tower Records has been about in the past several decades. Don't think that they would not exercise that right if push came to shove.

 

Also, in the other article I sent to you, I found this line to stand out rather prominently

http://www.pacificavc.com/blog/2003/10/08.html

 

Or, as Tom Walker writes to suggest: "...buy from small independent used stores. That way we keep small businesses running, and our money doesn't get back to the RIAA since they already got their profits from the initial buy."

If you really must buy a CD in a real store, go to Wal-Mart. Help collapse the influence of Tower Records and other music specialists that are holding back the industry. While you're at it, consider moving your video business to Netflix or another online source. Kevin's analysis makes it clear that the Tower's of the world are near the root of the music industry's retrograde tendencies. Let the air out of their tires.

Again, here is a statement that gives an idea as to Tower Records "cut" in the online sales... keeping in mind that iTunes would probably also get "their" cut as well... I may be reaching here, but no stone goes unturned as far as I'm concerned; when looking at the overall picture.

 

On top of that, the economics are very good for the labels. One study I did for a major music distributor concluded that when you purchased a CD for $17.99 at Tower Records, the record label only got $3 - $5. Out of that, they paid the artist and their own expenses and profit. Count the additional sales you could get for a lower price, and the label makes more money from an online price of $3.99 than a store price of $17.99.

I also find it interesting that the first line of that sentence says the economics are good for the labels and yet Tower is filing a Chapter 11.

[flyscots]

Originally posted by Christopher Kemp:

There's not much point going on about it, since your mind is already made up.

Seems to be the case.

 

Has anyone contacted Lee or Erik about this yet?

 

Any thoughts about using Weed to allow people to hear our music and hopefully pay for it? I know this is just individual songs and not the complete CD, but we should cover everything.

[ani]

I don't have a problem seeking other channels outside of UEM or Amazon, but I have no use for CD BABY at all. I would also consider looking at the terms of Artist's Launch, as Dan suggested and also Weed, as John suggested.

 

I can't fathom the idea of carelessly agreeing to terms that are subject to change without user consent that allows the broad scoped provision of "other use", and also those terms that would prohibit any of us from digitally transmitting our own materials on our websites to give exposure to the CD.

 

I think that the decision making should be contained to CREATIVE CONTRIBUTORS of this project only, and not the whole body of the forum. Outsiders do not have creative interests at stake in agreeing to the terms of a potentially raw deal.

[Franknputer]

Originally posted by Ani:

I think that the decision making should be contained to CREATIVE CONTRIBUTORS of this project only, and not the whole body of the forum. Outsiders do not have creative interests at stake in agreeing to the terms of a potentially raw deal.

Good idea. That's why I have stated from the beginning that I am not pitching any means of distributing the CD.