"SSS Fantasy League" - Brainstorming

[Brakka]

OPEN TO ALL!

 

I don't know how to get this rolling, so if anyone has any ideas, throw 'em in!

 

I have read some posts here in the past, and it seems that trading wavs could work. What's the biggest file size most email services allow as attatchments? And 16 bit would be best, right?

 

Should we form teams and remix a track, or start from scratch? Maybe a few teams that work from a specified set of changes? We could all do a popular "classic rock" tune maybe?

 

What happens now?

 

[Sylver]

As far as formats go, WAVs would probably be the best, but still big.

 

I know this might be a huge undertaking, but I thought that writing an original piece of music would be cool. Redoing a cover could be cool too, but I know a lot of people here write, and it might be a real learning experience to write long distance with a group. Covers could work too. Mixing sounds too much like the mix project([valley girl]That was like, so last week![/valley girl]

 

Some general thoughts:

 

1. We'd need a list of volunteers who would be interested in being "managers" and "draftees" to get an idea of how many and how big the teams should be.

 

2. The draftees would have to list thier strengths, instruments and other skills(like technical skills) they are bring to the table, so the managers could pick accordingly, and so no one ends up with all bass players(not that it would be a bad thing).

 

3. I think that to get the best experience from this, the managers should be locked into thier team after they draft, ie no trades, and if team members flake, dissapear, suck, the manager should have cope with it.

 

4. All players and managers should have the ability to record something to the agreed upon format.

 

5. Limiting the amount of "hats" worn. There are so many here that can do everything, it would really take away from the experience if one person domintated the team(Production, mixing, editing, drums, guitar, bass, and keys: Steve L.: ;Claps: everyone else).

 

Anybody else got some idea, or want to chime in on mine?

[Addix Metzatricity]

This sounds like fun...

 

Although it would probably be best for someone to host the .wavs, even small .wavs are a bit big for emailing...

[Sylver]

The hosting is easy enough, I worry that poeple will not even want to be involved if they don't have high speed access.

[Addix Metzatricity]

Yeah... that is a problem...

 

Luckily I do!

[nursers]

Great idea folks!

 

[Sylver]

Any new ideas for this? We'd like to make the whole thing a group effort.

 

What other things are appealing?

[Sylver]

No one even wants to talk about this? You guys suck. I might have to start hanging at the Keyboard Corner.

 

Nursers, give these people a kick in the butt!

[Brakka]

I knina figured that a pretty small percentage of SSS-ers would have both the desire and the time for something like this.

 

Plus, there's no format.

 

What is it supposed to be? Teams of members working together writing/recording/mixing? Then what?

 

What has worked here in the past for group collabs?

 

I'll check back, but I'm sorry to say that this idea may be dead in the water.

[Addix Metzatricity]

Unfortunately, Brakka may be right.

 

Someone needs to take charge here. I'd happily do it, but my lack of knowledge and experience keep me from doing anything other than participating.

 

Oh, if only Dave Bryce were here... But he's got enough on his plate with the KC Comps. (Which is featured in the June issue of Keyboard).

[nursers]

Hmmmm

 

I am reluctant to set rules as the whole Fantasy League thing is a US thing, not something I've come across down here.

 

As far as kicking people up the butt, it is a source of endless bemusement at how little collaboration actually occurs on this or any other forum. The answer? I honestly don't know. Would hate to see the few of you interested to give up though - you could create some really good music, you really might.

[Sylver]

Originally posted by Brakka.:

I knina figured that a pretty small percentage of SSS-ers would have both the desire and the time for something like this.

 

Plus, there's no format.

 

What is it supposed to be? Teams of members working together writing/recording/mixing? Then what?

 

What has worked here in the past for group collabs?

 

I'll check back, but I'm sorry to say that this idea may be dead in the water.

Well, I supposed throwing down a CD would be the way to go.

 

That's if we could generate enough interest.

 

So, you think that time would be a problem for people? I don't buy that. 1, I have a wierd schedule that includes caring for my 4 kids, full time job and a side business. 2, I was think that we could have a very liberal deadline, considering the nature of a distance collaboration.

 

Maybe people are afraid of playing with amatures.

 

Maybe they're afraid of playing with pros and getting shown up.

 

Maybe they are just apathetic and don't want to be involved.

 

Maybe it would be too much of a challange. Yeah, I can understand that. I mean, after all what does a little work get you?

 

Maybe they are afraid of getting drafted by Wewus.

 

HEY! That's who we need on board! We NEED Wewus! He would get people off thier asses!.

[Anifa]

I'll volunteer for writing lyrics and simple chord progressions. Actually, I have several songs already written that I'm open on rearrangement of musical composition. Or I can write off of someone's idea for input.

 

I wouldn't mind managing a group or two, if need be. I kinda like authority sometimes it can be fun being in control.

 

I'm game for actually providing some sort of hosting corner for downloads if it's possible to UL .wav format; providing I get authorization from creators and contributors in advance to host the files... legalities, you know?

 

I don't know if my server will actually allow me to host .wav files; some are much too big to even make the transfer. However, we may be able to come up with some sort of snail mail communication; if people are concerned about giving out personal contact information, perhaps we can discuss P.O. boxes for sending hard copies to each other. The post office has short term box leasing. Just a thought.

[Addix Metzatricity]

I can host at least some of them...

 

I can do electronic stuff and REAL bass.

[Brakka]

Originally posted by nursers:

I am reluctant to set rules as the whole Fantasy League thing is a US thing, not something I've come across down here.

I'll use a US major-league baseball fantasy league as an example.

 

12 or so people get together each managing a team in a fantasy league. Each manager drafts real-life players from pro baseball. The players' actual stats are accrued by each fantasy team. These include batting stats and pitching stats, like batting average, homers, stolen bases, era, wins & losses, and others. Each fantasy team scores points based on its ranking in a particular category- the team with the most home runs in a 12-team league gets 12 points, last place gets 1.

 

Over a season, players have streaks- few are consistent. Then there are injuries, team matchups, pitcher/batter matchups- a million things to consider. Some players hit a bunch of homers, but they might only play 120 of 162 games. A guy who hits far fewer homers but has a good average, steals bases, and plays every day might have an advantage. Some pitchers can win 18 games in a season, but have half as many strikeouts as a guy who wins 12 games.

 

SSS fantasy league was a bit of a joke to begin with, I must admit. I might have actually started to draft players (members), but only if others played along. Any scoring would have been tongue-in-cheek, but based on a member's posts at SSS. Comparing a Phil to a surfmonkey or a Wewus to a Cereal in that context could be funny and maybe interesting. Maybe not.

 

As an event in the Colab Corner... I don't know what to do. At least not using the "Fantasy League" format. Scoring doesn't seem right.

 

But if we had a list of people, they could be "drafted" by a person to participate in their group. But to draft teams to work together on writing and arranging as well as performing and mixing- that sounds very difficult.

 

Yeah, I know it was my idea.

 

I'll think about it a bit more. In the meantime, Sylver and nursers should nun with this if the feel so inclined.

[Brakka]

oops, I meant to edit and I replied.

[Brakka]

Here's an idea:

 

Anyone who wants to participate must provide a certain number of loops into the "loop pool." Each loop is clearly identified as created by a particular member (like "Wewus_guitar01.wav).

 

We could decide on a key and a tempo, but loops could use chord changes that are complimentary. A person could submit, say, 10 four-bar loops. They might be 3 bass loops, a drum loop, two rhythm guitar loops, one lead loop, and three vocal loops. Whatever they wanted to. And "loop" doesn't have to mean loop, it just means that it's a four-bar section that starts on beat one. To keep things relatively easy.

 

Each person assembles a song based on loops from the pool. You can use you own parts, but more than half of the song should be using other peoples' parts. And each person has to use loops from at least five different people. Or something.

 

As peoples' mixes progress, they can come up with new loops to add to the pool. Someone might come up with some new lyrics or chord changes, and that could go into the pool (as a 4-bar loop) that someone else may or may not add to their own mix. Maybe someone doubles a vocal someone else did, or adds a guitar solo harmony line, or horn backgrounds, whatever. At the end of the "season," 2-3 months, everyone posts an mp3 or sends a wav for a cd. (I personally don't mind mp3s for a project like this)

 

This doesn't sound very collaborative, but It could be fun.

 

Just an idea.

[Anifa]

12 or so people get together each managing a team in a fantasy league.

12 Teams, a 12 song CD project????

 

This sounds like it could be a long drawn out process with lots of ins and outs; I'm not much into football drafts so I'm out of that circle in knowing what you are getting at.

 

I would say that the teams should be divided up somehow into genres so that CMDN or someone with his drive didn't end up on a team playing soft jazz or country........

 

Pop

Soft Jazz

Country

Rock-a-billy

Folk

Death Metal

Hard Rock

Rhythm & Blues

Soul

Gospel

New Age

etc.

 

copied from another thread that I okayed Nursers to delete, there were only three posts on it.

 

My thoughts are to post threads with skills of strength.... such as Lead Guitars.... Bass Guitars..... Rhythm Guitars...... Drums...... Electronic Drums...... Composition...... Lyric Writing..... Arranging..... Recording..... Mixing...... Mastering...... Managing..... and see where the strengths lay among participants. Also, the people can specify their preferred genre or their versatility range.

 

My strengths are in song writing, lyrics & melodies especially. Also, I have very strong skills in promotions and public relations. I have moderate marketing skills, and also have a the means to showcase finished quality materials at international levels through my web site which is well established in the music and entertainment industry; with proper releases from all those involved.

 

There is a question of what to do about "what if what we come up is very marketable" and how people would feel about their contributions being part of a work of honor... It would be my suggestion that if sales were to take off, that it be predetermined WHERE the money would go....

 

I think that many of us would agree that much of the money could be turned back into the support of MusicPlayer Network Forums, especially Craig's SSS and Nursers Collaborator's Corner. Other MPN forums could benefit from this also.

 

There are so many variables as to which direction this whole thing could swing.

[Sylver]

Hey, traffic! Wooo Hooo!

 

Well, I want to stress, that I was not really thinking of this as a competition, but a way to get a collaboration thing going with a bunch of forumites involved. I really like the networking and learning aspects of being thrown into a situation and just having to be productive with a team of individuals that you might not know much about.

 

Brakka, I like your idea, it kinda sounds like a collaborative mixing/writing project. Maybe that could be something to explore if we can't get the numbers to make a "team" type event possible.

 

As far a hosting files, and getting wavs back and forth and formats and stuff, I say let each team solve thier own challanges and work the way that is best for them. If they want to do snail mail, cool. Wav, MP3's? Whatever the team is satisfied with. That might be part of the fun afterwards, talking about the challanges and obsticles that each team had to deal with. The way I'm imagining it, after the "draft" each team would pretty much work on thier own until the deadline. Of course cross talk and heckling would occur, but with this crew how could you stop it? That might be fun too, as long as we keep it genial. "Our song is gonna rock! Yours will be wimpy."

 

The number of teams would definately be dependent on the number of participants. We have a core of 4 or five people talking now, but it's probably enough to do some recruiting and generate some interest. 12 teams would be a great number(good CD number), as long as no one has a 25 minute song. 12 teams of five, say, would be 60 people. I think that very do-able.

 

Ani'fa, as far as style, I see your point. But that is why we would have "managers". I guess they would kinda act like a producer picking the appropriate talent for the project that they have in mind. If the manager wants to do a blues tune, he wouldn't pick DJDM unless he had something very different in mind. And if you're a "player", you are just gonna have to go with whoever picks you. I really dig the randomness of it. If I was a player(which is the way I'm leaning ... I have control over everything in my own projects, it might be nice to let someone else tell me what they want.), I would relish the challange of being thrown into a situation where I would have to grow, rather than rely on my present skill set. But, so that the team manager can make informed picks, it is definately important for each player to list all the skills that they can bring to the team. Maybe a self rating system would help out.

[Addix Metzatricity]

Originally posted by Sylver:

I would relish the challange of being thrown into a situation where I would have to grow, rather than rely on my present skill set.

Here here!!!! Amen brotha...

 

So, let's do what we can to get 12 or so "managers".

[Sylver]

Do you think we should recruit managers first, then let them help, or just throw the whole idea out again with pleas from those who are posting here? I think Brakka and Ani'fa already indicated that they would be interested in managing. I guess I could do it too, if need be, but I definately am leaning the other way at the moment. Besides, since I'm pushing so hard for this, it might be better if I'm not involved as a manager. Besides, someone is going to have to moderate the draft process, and a manager would have a conflict of interest. Not that it's a matter of national security or anything.

[Addix Metzatricity]

I think we should get managers first. The let the managers worry about getting players.

 

I'd be better suited as a player, but I suppose I could pull off being a manager if need be.

[Brakka]

Originally posted by Sylver:

12 teams of five, say, would be 60 people. I think that very do-able.

Really? You think 60 people would want to participate in this thing? I think you're being VERY optimistic. I like optimistic people. But there is no way 60 people are going to do this thing.

 

Maybe if there was already a history of collaboration projects here, but as far as I know, this forum has died once and is practically dead now. Sorry for my brutal honesty there.

 

I think trying to to a colloborative cd project is shooting a bit high right now. We could continue with this "teams" idea, but maybe it could be 4 or 5 teams. And the mixes would end up as mp3's at one of the mp3 sites, with wavs available to those that wanted them. Maybe "Fantasy League II" would get enough people for 12 teams if the first try worked well.

 

I can't think of 60 people at SSS, period. Let alone 60 collaborative-type people. Not everyone has the time or desire to do something like this.

[Addix Metzatricity]

True... If we can get 3 or 4 songs out of this, maybe then we can generate interest.

[Sylver]

Hey, you gotta dream big, you know? So, if we can only get 25 people to bite(and we could troll all the MP forums to get interest), we have 5 teams and could do an EP.

 

I won't be hurt if we don't get 60, but I think it's a least in the realm of possibilities. Maybe if we make an appeal to some of the biggies, it would generate more interest. But I think that we need to get a concrete idea together between us before actively pushing the idea.

 

I'll list the ideas so far point by point as I see it and we'll see how you guys feel about them. I'll post a again in a little bit.

[Brakka]

I'll keep thinking about it too.

 

There's one VERY important fact to remember:

 

Every participant must be a decent engineer, since they're recording their own part. There are lots of people in the bass, drum, & guitar forums here, but I get the feeling that not all of them own DAW's and recording gear. And know how to use it.

 

Hey, I used "there they're their" up there.

[Addix Metzatricity]

Originally posted by Brakka.:

Every participant must be a decent engineer, since they're recording their own part. There are lots of people in the bass, drum, & guitar forums here, but I get the feeling that not all of them own DAW's and recording gear. And know how to use it.

True... I can record my bass into my computer, but I don't really have a lot of experience with actually making it sound good.

[Sylver]

Originally posted by Brakka.:

I'll keep thinking about it too.

 

There's one VERY important fact to remember:

 

Every participant must be a decent engineer, since they're recording their own part. There are lots of people in the bass, drum, & guitar forums here, but I get the feeling that not all of them own DAW's and recording gear. And know how to use it.

 

Hey, I used "there they're their" up there.

Right, great points! I would amend that everyone should be able to at least supply a decently recorded raw track with good levels, or a standard midi track(betcha didn't think about that!) if they want to participate in a musical way. I don't think it would be fair, however to leave out the techies here. I know most play an instrument, but there are a few engineers and producers out there. They would make great managers, especially the producers.

 

+10 for getting there, thier and they're into the same paragraph.

 

OK, here's what I got so far. let me know point by point what you guys like and don't like, what needs to be amended or changed, etc.

 

1. The primary goal is to have a multiple group collaboration between MP forum members. The object of the game is to have fun, get to know other forum members and learn and grow from the experience. Each team will get together one piece of original music that the world has never heard before. Go nuts!

2. People desiring to participate would express their interest in being a manager or player. The number of teams will depend on the number of participants.

3. Players will fill out a simple survey to give others an idea of what skills they can offer. Skills are not limited to musical ones, engineers and producers are welcome to participate. The managers will then participate in a sports style “draft” were the will pick the players they wish to have on their team. Trades are not permitted. The draft will continue until all players have been chosen, or until all the managers have all spots filled/or desire no more team members.

4. Teams will consist of at least three members, i.e. the manager and 2 players. (should we have an upper limit?) Multi role players are ok, but managers should make sure that one person doesn't hog the spotlight.

5. Logistics such as file transfer, formats, a/d preference and computer platform will be solely up to the teams. Want to snail mail everything? Sure. Meet in person? No problem. Pretty much anything goes.

6. Musical styles will be up to the team(and to an extent because of their draft choices, the managers). Try to be open to anything that comes your way.

7. There will be a time limit on this exercise of _________(what? 3 months? Six months? Long enough to not be a burden, but not so long that everyone will be afraid to commit.) The projects will be due on _____. Teams are encouraged to write perfomance/production notes and share their experience with everyone at the time that the finished songs are posted. All the projects will be posted on-line for all the world to hear(One of the free services would be the best idea for completed pieces). If there is enough interest, we could do a cheap run off of 50 or so CDs.

8. This is a challenge. It is not a competition in any way. There will be no prizes, cash awards, scholarships, or studio time awarded. And as always, please no wagering.

[Brakka]

I think you might be getting somewhere...

 

A manager would need to have lots of available web space for trading wavs, and a way for members to upload (unless 1: he/she picks only members in his/her area who are willing to meet up, or 2: the team works with cd's and the post office). I don't have webspace, and I'm on dial-up. So I won't be managing a team.

[Addix Metzatricity]

Ooooh! A rules list.

 

Very good.

 

Now let's go get us some managers!