"I'm playing through what?"

[Graham56]

Hi,

 

Ive hung around this forum on and off for a few years, although I lurk more than post.

 

I play in an old guys and gals covers band - five forty-pluses who really should know better. A classic pub band in UK terms, thrashing out a mixture of bluesy-rock covers from people such as the Stones, Van Morrison, Dandy Warhols, Dr Feelgood and others of that ilk.

 

Weve played 6 gigs now as a band. And in my case thats 6 gigs in total (I came to the bass late and have never done this band thing before). Great fun though.

 

The last two gigs we played, we were one of a few bands who each had a 30-45min slot. The stage was set for quick changeovers, with a backline supplied.

 

My own gear is an Ashdown MAG 300 with Ashdown 2x10 cab. I play an elderly P-bass through it with LaBella flats and no pedals or effects. I set the EQ flat, and the combination of the flats and 10-inch cones gives me a pleasing combination of thud and definition, without any harsh treble. It suits the sound of our band (one guitar, one bass, drums, two vocals and a harmonica) and the songs we play.

 

But on these gig I was using the supplied gear. And this is what caused me problems. I was faced with a head and cab that I knew nothing about, with no time for a sound check and no idea how to set it up for the sound I wanted.

 

On the first show, I had a Behringer head and Behringer 4x10 cab with metal cones. The head had a DI into the PA as well, but as the room was quite small a lot of the volume was coming from the stage anyway.

 

I only had time to set it all flat, play a couple of notes to get the stage volume balanced with the kick drum, then off we went. And it sounded dreadful. Harsh and metallic on the high notes. Deep resonating booming on the low. Cross-string balance was hopeless.

 

Next song I cut all the treble. A little better. Then some bass. We still had the ocasional resonating rumble although I think the sound guy eventually did something with that.

 

The next gig was a similar situation, although this time we were outside (first time for me). Another new head and cab. It sounded better on stage, perhaps because we had no walls to bounce the sound back at us. Don't really know though.

 

What this is all leading to is a question.

 

Whats the best way to approach this situation? You come on stage, bass in hand, to find gear and a set-up you dont know. Youve no time to check it. You need to be playing NOW.

 

What next? Just set it all flat and hope for the best? I really dont like a sharp trebly sound (and it doesnt suit our music), so maybe just cut the treble anyway?

Cut the deep bass? Or do nothing and hope the sound guy/gal sorts it out?

 

Does anyone have a quick set of steps they follow in this situation?

 

Cheers

 

Graham

[Brocko777]

In your best "I meant to do that" strut, walk over to the head in question and (if possible) not to hurt the tune at hand play a strong root octave let 'er ring and try to make an adjustment. If its closer to the sound you are looking for try it again till you are happy.

Get under your fingers what makes "your" sound and going into a situation like that will make it somewhat easier. If all else fails roll 'em all up to 11 and bring the ROCK!

 

Brocko

[Seamy ALB]

In my experience every room sounds different even when using my own gear. Sometimes a room resonates on a particular note, I have found that this phenomenon is more prounced on stage than it it is out front, often it can't be noticed out front at all. Often when there is a PA the amp is really only a monitor for your use onstage. Here is my method for dealing with this situation.

 

When the band you are playing with hits the last 5 minutes of there set have your stuff ready to walk onto the stage. For me this is bass on a stand to set beside amp, radio system - lead to -tuner pedal - lead to amp. When the other bass player has cleared from the amp I walk on set the bass down nice and safe in its stand, plug my stuff in, tune up and then adjust eq to taste. This maximises my time slot because normally the drummer in the previous band will still be removing his gear.

 

I then check the input gain so there is no peaking, play an open string with my right hand and adjust eq with my left. I always adjust it to where it would be on my own amp first to establish a ball park and then tweak it till I'm happy.

 

When you are using other peoples gear it can be difficult to feel comfortable but the punters seldom notice sonic differences, they will pick up on you though if your standing looking miserable, always keep smiling!! So much of your sound really is in your fingers though, get somebody to tape you guys with your own gear and then playing through someone else's stuff you will be amazed at how similar it will sound.

 

Also by the time you've hit your 60th gig you'll have it sussed!!

[Graham56]

Thanks for the replies. We played another gig like this on Saturday and your comments all helped.

 

'Smiling' is next. My natural tendency is to show a slight scowl as I concentrate. (Hey, we've got two singers and a guitarist to do the 'smiling at the crowd' bit!)

 

But I've been working at trying to make eye contact with the audience, smile, move about etc. It's not automatic though...

 

Reviwing camcorder footage of our gigs is proving to be realy useful here. On the most recent you can see me in static-scowl mode, then the 'Oops I should be smiling!' thought goes through my mind and a big cheesy tv-presenter grin suddenly appears on my face.

 

A few minutes later the scowl is back.

 

A minute or two then the whole cycle repeats.

 

Once you realise what's going on it is painfully obvious. And it's pretty damn funny too!

 

Oh well, if this was easy everyone would do it...

 

Cheers

 

Graham

[Phil W]

I think the smiling thing is really important. First, of course, because if the audience thinks you're having a good time: they are more likely to.

Secondly, and less obviously, when you smile your whole body relaxes. This makes more difficult lines easier to play. If I'm trying to work out something hard, I make a conscious effort to relax and smile and it helps.

It's really just a question of training your body into certain habits (yeah, I know that's not so easy. I'm still working on it.

[Phil W]

Graham56,

On a side note (having listened to you guys on your website) I thik with the material you're doing, there's a large demand for that kind of thing on the pub/club covers circuit around London.

I play in one covers band (50s rock and roll, 70s rock and glam rock,reggae and a dash of jazz, soul, blues and funk) and we get a fair deal of paid work, although sometimes duo/trio stuff too.

We don't have to play places like the one you mentioned in your first post and we use our own gear.

Are you on the books of any agents? - apologies for naming such direputable characters. Mind you, some of the places we play have their own 'issues'. Think 'Phoenix Nights'* and you'll get an idea.

 

*For any non-UK residents this is a comedy set in a bizarre Northern Working Mens Club and way too close to the reality of most of my cover gigs.

[Nicklab]

I think we've all dealt with the house backline situation at one point or another. Very often the situation is going to be that a club is supplying speaker cabinets but nothing else. You bring your amp and plug it into their cabinets. As for setting up quick, every club or bar wants you set up 5 minutes ago. It's just the nature of what we do. The venue people see a lull in the music as potentially harmful to the state of the crowd. Do what you have to do and get set up.

 

One thing to keep in mind is being as prepared as possible for gigs. You should be knowledgable about what you need to get yourself setup at a club gig where you can be ready to go inside of ten minutes. I know what I have to do at gigs like this. I've got typically 4 cases of some sort that I need to bring on stage. The first is a double gig with a primary and backup instrument. The next is my amp in a rackmount case. After that there's my pedalboard. Finally there's my general gear bag. I'll usually setup the amp first. Then I'll pull the necessary speaker and instrument cables from my gear bag. I always have spare cables on hand...you just need to have those at all times. Next comes the pedalboard. Power that up. Then connect everything as needed. Then comes the double instrument stand, the basses and my picks. Get that stuff out, stash the gig bags and cases. Tune up, do a quick sound check and voila! I'm ready to go.

 

As for getting ready for a set, I think we as bassists tend to get it somewhat easy. Setting up the drums can take a little bit of time, so during that time you can try to get some of your setup done. That includes trying to soundcheck yourself as much as possible before your set. If you're using a house amp setup, try it out flat first. Tweak it as much as possible from there and get playing. Don't forget that if there are breaks in a tune or between songs that you can always make the necessary adjustments then. I would try to respect the integrity of a song rather than make sound adjustments during a tune. You're noticing the sound issue, but usually the crowd isn't. Also remember that you've got some tone control on the instrument, so you needn't focus solely on the amp for all of your tone shaping needs.

[Rocky McDougall]

Originally posted by Phil W:

*For any non-UK residents this is a comedy set in a bizarre Northern Working Mens Club and way too close to the reality of most of my cover gigs.

Ok! Tell me, what is a "Northern Working Mans Club"

 

 

I'm not sure I have been to one of those.

rocky

[picker]

As far as smiling goes, get into what you play and don't worry about it too much. To me, a pasted-on "beauty-queen-in-a-parade" smile looks worse than an unaffected scowl. And, no one smiles all the time unless they are on something mind-altering or demented(or both), so just work at playing and let your face do what it will. John Entwhistle didn't smile much while he was playing, and the Who did alright. If you absolutely have to smile because the other members say so or whatever, practice in front of a mirror, but go for a natural look.

As far as working with other's equipment, the only thing I can suggest beyond what you've already been told is get a preamp like a POD, and keep your sound programmed into it. Then, plug it into the amp with the tone set flat, check the level, and go for broke.

[Phil W]

Working Mens Clubs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_men%27s_club

 

Think beer, bingo, cabaret, seniors (hey no problem - good audiences), cigarette smoke, cabaret, cheesy organ duos, strippers (less so nowadays), requests for Rod Stewart covers etc.

 

Phoenix Nights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Nights

 

Sorry Graham, not intended as a thread hijack, just answering a query.

 

Relax and enjoy the gigs!

[mcbn]

Originally posted by Picker:

As far as working with other's equipment, the only thing I can suggest beyond what you've already been told is get a preamp like a POD, and keep your sound programmed into it. Then, plug it into the amp with the tone set flat, check the level, and go for broke.

I'm going to second this. I've used a SansAmp Bass Driver DI for a few years with great success. My tone doesn't change much from amp to amp with this thing. To date, I've used this to push Carvin, Peavey, Avatar, Genz-Benz & GK rigs and have been able to keep my tone relatively the same.

 

I know that gear isn't always the answer and there are probably other ways around this, but in this case gear might work.

 

You might try offerings from Line6, Fulltone, SansAmp, MXR, Ashdown & Trace Elliot and see what suits you.

[mart3442]

I think its the age old thing that the sound thats good onstage may not sound great out front....

I know the Behringer setup you are talking about, loud enough but budget and lacking in tone.

On the one I used, I left all the eq flat and trusted my Jazz Bass would get me out of trouble.

[Lenny B]

I'm going to second this. I've used a SansAmp Bass Driver DI for a few years with great success. My tone doesn't change much from amp to amp with this thing. To date, I've used this to push Carvin, Peavey, Avatar, Genz-Benz & GK rigs and have been able to keep my tone relatively the same.

 

 

I don't use my amp more often than i do and these days am loving my Sansamp - i've had too many gigs where i've had to use someone else's amp or can't take my own amp (can't take it on the tube in London) and at least now i know i'll get a decent sound through the PA. I also had a run of 3 gigs in a row where when using someone else's amp it died on me! (one started smoking and went BANG, one combo's speaker connection cable snapped en route and one just wouldn't work for no reason either the soundman or i could ascertain).

[SteveC]

I don't use a Pod or BDDI, but I do always have my Radial JDI to go through - even when it's my rig. It's not quite the same, but maybe it gets me a more even field before the amp and I know what is going to the PA as well.

[The Bear Jew]

I know this sounds kind of sacreligious on a bass forum, but when it comes to using a backline, whatever the club has around is always fine with me as long as it works well enough for those onstage to hear me play. The stage sound isn't what the audience hears, anyway... so I leave the FOH sound to the engineers who run the mix.

 

To be honest, for most bassists doing rock/pop gigs, getting an awesome bass tone isn't as important as playing booty-bouncin' bass lines and getting things going. I mean, yeah, I like having that "tone-to-die-for" onstage whenever possible, but... hey... sometimes it is what it is.

[Graham56]

Erik said:

 

To be honest, for most bassists doing rock/pop gigs, getting an awesome bass tone isn't as important as playing booty-bouncin' bass lines and getting things going. I mean, yeah, I like having that "tone-to-die-for" onstage whenever possible, but... hey... sometimes it is what it is

I take your point. And I'm not worried about 'perfect tone' in this situation. It was more that it sounded so bad to me that it was putting me off.

 

I'm at the stage where it takes pretty much all my concentration to play live, and it doesn't take much to throw me.

 

Yeah, I know, relax and don't sweat it!

 

And maybe a DI or pod would be an idea. At the moment I don't use any pedals, effects or anything, on the basis that at them moment I haven't really worked through to the limits of my fingers and simple equipment.

 

I'd rather get that to a higher standard than spend my time playing with pedals, patches, and software. At the moment anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Graham

[Graham56]

PhilW said:

 

On a side note (having listened to you guys on your website) I think with the material you're doing, there's a large demand for that kind of thing on the pub/club covers circuit around London.

I certainly hope so! We've only just started seeking out gigs, and so far it's been taking the demo and a promo pack to likely venues.

 

Haven't though about agents. Are there any good ones in the London area? (You can PM if this is getting too London-centric!)

 

Cheers

 

Graham

[ChiaLynn]

As a brand-new bass player, but a long-time performer, I haven't gotten to a point where I have anything useful to say about the music, but I can offer a few tips on stage presence.

 

One, you've already figured out -- "Oh, I should be smiling!" followed by a big fake grin looks silly. And it will distract the audience. One way to get past that is to practice smiling while you practice playing. Practice in front of a mirror, or videotape yourself. The more used to smiling while you play you get, the more natural it will be to smile on stage. And you don't even have to show teeth -- just parting your lips slightly to keep yourself from scowling will help keep the audience from wondering if the bass player is angry with them.

 

Two -- the longer you perform, the easier it's likely to get. And as it gets easier to get out there in front of people, play live, etc., it will also get easier to let your joy in the music (and maybe even the thrill of performing) communicate itself.

 

Three -- as others have said, you don't have to smile all the time. (And I know you know that, since you mentioned you have two vocalists and a guitarist to do the smiling for you.) You'll find the stage persona who works for you, and for your band. And he may smile a lot, or he may not. He may make eye contact with the crowd, or he may be cool and aloof. (And he may be just like you, or he may be a wholly different character, who only comes out on stage.)

 

And finally -- remember that, in most cases, the audience likes you and wants you to succeed. They'll forgive a lot, and they may not even notice things that seem glaringly awful to you. Just realizing that can go a long way to loosening you up on stage.

[JonathanD]

Try going to your locak music shop with your gear, playing ti, then playing all the combinations they have and seeing what the differance is.

Or you could jsut kick the rubbish off the stage and replace it with yours, when they jerk who owns it comes up to you just urinate on him and yell "SEX PISTOLS"!

probably the former of the 2 would be better on your health.

[Fred TBP]

Rule #1: when in doubt - or when your equipment fails to work - entertain the audience. I can go on an on about my preamps, direct boxes, spare cables and such, but from time to time (last time was about 3-4 weeks ago) I've not only had the backline fail onstage, but the people assigned to help me couldn't, even though they tried their best.

 

But if you were to poll the audience, the majority won't notice anything if you smile and put on a good show. I'm serious - it's as if most of the audience lost their hearing on the low-end or is filling in the blanks with another sense. Yes, people do notice the missing bass, and they're ready to accept that stems from the house system, and I do hear about that, but when it's showtime, you can choose to carry on in the best tradition of showmanship or pull an Ashlee Simpson and act like a tool onstage.

 

(PS: and I do act like a tool onstage at times, but it's part of the act... )

[...]

For those backline provided gigs where I don't know the rig I flatten the EQ and quickly try and dial in something that is not offensive to the ear.

 

Smiling or looking like you are having a good time is infectious. The better time you look like you are having the more fun the audience is going to have. People like to see people having a good time. That said I act like a complete spaz while playing with my 80's band. I definitely lose any "cool points" I have saved up every time I hit the stage with them. Of course it's very hard to look cool while singing backups on Go Go's songs...

[picker]

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

...Of course it's very hard to look cool while singing backups on Go Go's songs...

Man, those are words to live by, right up there with "don't fry your bacon in the nude" and "Yoko Ono can't sing".