Rhymes that make you puke?

[Cliffk]

Hi, just popped over from the KC to pose this question, as I've been trying to complete some lyrics but have hit a wall.

The thing is, the worst, most trite lines keep on barging into my head (it's a soul love song BTW), such as 'down on my knees, beggin' you please' etc. (Yes I know ). Right now, I've just given up for a while, and am laughing hysterically!

So, the question is: are there any rhymes in songs that really irritate or annoy you?

[Bunny Knutson]

Life & Strife

 

Using those two words in a rhyming couplet is the essence of cheese to me. Have you ever heard someone use the word "strife" in casual converstion? No, you haven't.

[Dr Nursers]

Love, dove and heavens above

[Programgirl]

Maybe, baby.

[sudeep]

while i actually like the song, Beautiful by James Blunt, i do think its interesting how he manages to rhyme "Beautiful" with ...er "Beautiful". Doh why didnt i think of that!!!!??

[Fulc]

Then of course there's the classic

 

moon / June / croon / spoon

 

This is nothing that even a cursory look at a rhyming dictionary wouldn't cure.

[noneverstuck]

Self and shelf.

 

If a line ends in "-self", you know, next thing, someone or something is going to end up on the shelf.

 

Deef

[Murakawa]

Damn it man, I used "I'm down on my knees, beggin' please" for a song I wrote recently. I only just realised how redundant it sounds! I must've been having a bad day when I wrote it.

[philbo_Tangent]

Originally posted by Murakawa:

Damn it man, I used "I'm down on my knees, beggin' please" for a song I wrote recently. I only just realised how redundant it sounds! I must've been having a bad day when I wrote it.

How about "down on my knees, my hair dripping with grease" ?

[steverm3]

fly and high

[Tedster]

Anything that's like "cuts like a knife" because it's one of the few words that rhymes with "life".

 

I think I'll use "cuts like my wife" instead.

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by Tedster:

I think I'll use "cuts like my wife" instead.

I hope you're not talking about her talents in cutting the cheese.

 

Speaking of cheese, I find that not forcing a rhyme tends to cut down on the cheese factor in general.

 

Then again, I like Bare Naked Ladies. Go figure.

[Tedster]

You're right. I mean, Haiku doesn't rhyme...why do songs necessarily always have to? But, yeah, I like the Bare Naked Ladies too.

 

Saw a "Storytellers" with Springsteen...he was talking about writing "Blinded By The Light"...he said it was just him in an apartment in Asbury Park, a guitar, and a rhyming dictionary. He joked "By the time I got through writing the song, the rhyming dictionary was on fire".

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by Tedster:

"By the time I got through writing the song, the rhyming dictionary was on fire".

ROFLMAO!!!

[tyler1]

I hate lyric that are ordinary. Like lyrics about the wind. Or lyrics that are trivial. Like she's so fine. I think the key is to create new phrase, something that sticks in you mind when you hear it. I think letting the lyrics flow and paint a genuine picture is most important.

[Eric VB]

Welcome to the Songwriting and Composition forum, Tyler!

 

I agree with you, it's nice to hear something fresh and new lyrically. Hearing the same hackneyed phrases over and over again can get boring (for those of us old enough to have heard it 10,000 times before). But that's the nifty thing about marketing towards teens: everything is new to them. If the current rising star were to redo a Beatles song, or an Elvis tune, their teen audience probably wouldn't have experienced listening to the original, so the new take could be accepted "as is" without the stigma of just being a lesser "rip off" of the original.

 

But what you're getting at is that the same imagery -- and the words used to describe that imagery -- see a lot of recycling; the "howling wind" symbolizing an impending ominous or desperately sad event, for example. This goes for phrases that express a common sentiment, too, like using "she's so fine" to denote a beautiful, desirable woman. (I don't know if the kids even use "phat" anymore for that.)

 

There are a multitude of examples of better use of language than today's lyrics. It's called poetry. But it can be difficult, for example, to set Emily Dickinson's works to music. Even if you succeed, you still have the "dumb it down" factor. In the U.S., newpaper articles are written to the 5th grade level (typically achieved by about age 11) so they can reach a wider audience. Something similar could be said of pop lyrics. You can't say someone "mornfully grieved". You have to say something like "it hurt so bad I couldn't stop crying/now she's gone I feel like dying". With a limited vocabulary, the rhymes come a lot easier, and we end up saying the same things over and over again.

 

Another trend brought about by several factors -- cable TV and rap/hip-hop not withstanding -- is the commonplace acceptance of vulgar language. When I was a kid (yes, I'm old) my brother bought a Kiss album from a mail-order record company. When it arrived, the packaging listed the contents as "Kiss\Hotter than H***". Yes, they actually used asterisks to cover up the word "hell" in the 70s because people found its use offensive (and perhaps the Post Office wouldn't be able to deliver it). Quite laughable by today's standards.

 

Anyway, one of my high school English teachers explained it to me this way. Often when an obscenity is used, another more meaningful word can be used in its place (or the sentence rewritten, etc.). You can communicate more clearly and effectively without them. And certainly, with overuse swear words lose their shock value. Not that today's dialog writers for movie scripts seem to care, among others.

 

So in a way the "do-run-run" and "ooh-maw-maw" nonsense syllables of the 50s have been reborn. A lot of songs have all these words but they don't really say anything; they're just filler. It sounds great, the melody is catchy, you may even sing along, but what did you just say? "Yo baby, mmm, yeah, Oh baby, ooh, yeah." (Insert your favorite profanity to further see my point.)

 

On the other hand, if you look at what white pop lyracists were churning out in the U.S. prior to Elvis -- with a more sophisticated vocabulary than today -- it's downright comical. Some of the $10 words they used to try and rhyme are priceless. Look for old sheet music from that era when people still sang along with the piano in the parlor for examples. (Yes, there was a time when mp3s and iPods didn't exist, let alone satellite and FM radio.) If you wanted to hear the latest pop song you bought the sheet music and played/sang it yourself.

 

My friend got me to consider dropping the rhyming couplet convention. Just use the words you want to convey your meaning. Why should you have to twist the words and distort the meaning just for the sake of rhyming? Just because "everybody else does" and "it sells"? For someone like me that struggles with language as it is (I'm a horrible lyracist), having to jump through more hoops to rhyme is just too much; I've written some awful hokey couplets in my time.

 

I'm still a slave to rhythm, however, and I refrain from using most of my post-elementary school vocabulary. Then there's the prosody factor to consider. Nothing worse than stressing the wrong sylLABle or sounding like you've just arrived here from Mars.

 

So, back to Tyler's point, I think that even lyracists that strive for the ideal he's indicated, with all the limitations imposed on themselves it's hard to escape deja vu lyrics. (Ooh, I've got to write that one down.)

[starbaby]

I am trying not to rhyme so much.Alot of my songs usually start off as poems.I know i do it to much.What advise can anybody give me it has become a habbit,10 out of the 20 rhyme quite a bit.what are instant graemlins?i guess i can go there and find out.

[Eric VB]

Welcome, starbaby!

 

Contrary to my previous post, I wouldn't say that rhyming itself is evil. If you stuff sounds good with the rhymes don't sweat it. However, if they get in the way of what you're trying to communicate ...

[starbaby]

thankyou for responding.I am going to put some songs on here in about 3 weeks=)what is a gold member? i would rather have platinum=)Have a nice evening.How long have you been writting and have you ever written a book?Gotta go I hear my mating call lol

[starbaby]

haiku is my favorite perfume frankenstein.I really need alot of advise on things and got in to trouble on other forums because some people were kinda mean=(I guess that happens sometimes??

[Eric VB]

Hey starbaby,

We're wandering a little offtopic (OT) here, but let me see if I can be of some help.

 

This forum has a place for song reviews . It's a "sticky" topic, so it's always near the top of the topic list. Its focus is on songwriting/composition, not performance or production. (Other forums have song review topics for those purposes.)

 

There is a thread for introducing yourself , where you divulge information such as how long you've been writing and list the books you've written. (Sad to say I don't have any book credits.)

 

Instant graemlins are the little smilie graphics, like this: They're pretty easy to use from the "full reply form".

 

I have no idea how I became a gold member. Probably from talking too much. [edit: but not near as much as some *cough*Ted*cough* forumites!]

 

Feel free to start a topic to ask a question about songwriting and composition here. However, there is a link at the top-right that allows you to search the forum. You may find that your question has already been asked (and answered!) previously.

 

The people here are generally good natured. Some have a sense of humor, too, so watch out! Oh, and our moderator is one of the coolest on the planet!

[starbaby]

I have been known to talk to much to ,and yes i am writting a book=)i have ALOT to write about=)***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** **********************************************************************

[starbaby]

I have not written book yet.I am trying.It is going to be an autobiography.It is going to be about ALOT of things!I just need somebody to help me put together.I am more interested in singing though.I sold my guitar so I need to get new one=(I am from AZ and moved to seattle to find band and get away from my nightmare in Az. send me some music.IF I can get the 6 songs I just recorded from my ex that lives out here that thinks he is an engineer because he figured out cakewalk. lolI am afraid to introduce myself,I think there are people on here that hate me!Looooooong story=)

[DAZE OF FREEDOM]

LEFT~!?!~BEREFT

[Darren Landrum]

I once tried to rhyme "mirrors" and "disappears". I guess that kind of works.

[Hooper]

Tsunami

 

and

 

Yer mommy

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by Bunny Knutson:

Life & Strife

 

Using those two words in a rhyming couplet is the essence of cheese to me. Have you ever heard someone use the word "strife" in casual converstion? No, you haven't.

Hahahahaha! I'm working on something and had a line end with "life" ... and because of this thread the first thing that came to me was "strife"!

 

No, I'm not going to use that. No way, no how.

[wraub]

Actually I have used strife conversationally, but then I am high-verbal.

 

Another word I have used conversationally, but find uncomfortable/unsingable is bereft.

Hard to use that one well.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[KeyboardPunk]

Hey All! I'm new to this forum(been on Keyboard Corner) Anyway I got a rhyme I wana try in a song.(no copy cats please!!) Here it is:

 

You look at me and the first thing you do is judge me. You think Im easy to control. Well let me tell youohoyou think your words are gonna get to me. All your talk is worth nothin. Your mouth keeps on runnin but you stay away.

One day your mouth will write a check that your body cant cash. And Ill just sit back and laugh. Im tired of your smack talkin, rumor spreadin, trailer trash ways. Oho. Screw it lets just do it.

Lets take it to the pavement and see what you got. Get it my face and youll become the one the world forgot. You put in your 2 cents from the other side of the fence. But when were both on the same side things change, you try to hide the fear inside. But I say oho I say..screw it lets just do it.

 

There's alot of wierd ryhmes in this one. But my band claims it's edgy. They like it but I'm not sure. It's kinda missin sumin.

Write Back

[Eric VB]

Maybe you could use "put up your dukes and let's get down to it"?

 

Oh wait, I think I've heard that somewhere before.

 

Anyway, welcome to Songwriting & Composing, KeyboardPunk! Hope you like it here.

 

The rhymes in your lyrics don't really want me to puke; maybe you could start a new topic if you want some opinions so we don't get too off topic (OT) on this thread? (Not like it hasn't happened already.)