Does your band play ALL live?

[CEB]

I know I was talking sh*t in my first post.  That is sort of me being socially awkward with my whacked sense of humor.  I’ve done gigs with tracks.  I’m a ho.  I played whatever gigs I could get.  
 

It takes some talent to use backing tracks and sequences.   There are some things that do get more difficult in this kind of environment.  You need to be tight.  An all human band will gel.   Machines have no soul.  They do not make automatic mIcro-compensations.  It’s different. 
 

I’m not past using a sequencer if it gains me something else.  An example was Iggy Azalea’s tune Fancy.   I sequenced the bass part  so it freed me up to add some airy pads and to do some scratch noise stuff.  It wasn’t in the original but it was fun and made for a show.  This isn’t my forte.  At the end of the day I'm just a honky tonk piano player.  

[Docbop]

Like said before Live concert versus a Live Show or tribute band.   I like concerts  I miss the 60's and 70's and going to a concert and a big name band like Traffic would playing in jeans and t-shirts,   gear just stacked behinds them, and whatever lighting the venue had, it was all about the music.   Then slowly the show started to creep in and things became more about the look.  After that more show and ticket prices started to go up to pay to haul a show and a big enough crew to support it.   Then Beatlemania came about and bands started the tribute band BS.   Want a tribute bank then play Broadway your theater not rock concert.    And things have grown and grown until now live is a big show with off stage playback engineers,  costumes, special effects, and the players onstage are just meat puppets playing a part.   I think all this show stuff is what make be love Jazz so much it live music, unique performance every set, and most of it in small clubs all over the world.   It  real music it is a concert.   

 

So people have to decide is my band  a concert or a show.    

 

funny just yesterday I was in a discussion with a well know music producer about the same thing in recorded music.   What happened to live music and concert vs show is what happened in recorded music too.   We need to get the energy of live performance back, not over processed gobbledygook. 

[ProfD]

8 hours ago, Docbop said:

 I think all this show stuff is what make be love Jazz so much it live music, unique performance every set, and most of it in small clubs all over the world.   It  real music it is a concert. 

 

Therein lies the beauty of music.  Like Baskin-Robbins ice cream, there are many flavors of music from which to choose and no shortage of settings in which to consume it.  

 

Thankfully, live performance isn't confined to listening to music in a cavernous place; squinting to see the stage or craning a neck to look up at a screen.  

 

Pop music fans probably have it the worst because while their favorite artists are at the height of a career, seeing them might require sitting in nosebleed seats and still watching them  on TV and/or selling an organ (body part) to buy a concert ticket.

 

OTOH, folks who dig real music can wander into a local theater or intimate club setting; maybe have dinner and see and hear an artist/musician perform a great set and probably do a meet and greet afterward.

 

I've always been fortunate that the music I dig has never cost a fortune to see and hear and it has always been accessible.  No standing in long lines.  Not too crowded.  No bad sound system.  Excellent live performances.😎

[Iconoclast]

In the last 10 years I've probably played in approx 10 different cover or tribute bands. All of them except one notable exception were 100% live.

The notable exception was a 90 minute very scripted tribute show. Lots of tracks, Lighting and video synched to the performance.  Played a lot of really good paying shows to some big rooms. I was always amazed at how people didn't know how deep the tracks went.  The BL would have 2 or 3 strings players on stage but there was a whole symphony in the tracks. Also would have a couple backup singers but there would be tons of backup vocal tracks.

[Outkaster]

All live.  All three I play in don't use tracks.

[El Lobo]

6 hours ago, ProfD said:

I've always been fortunate that the music I dig has never cost a fortune to see and hear and it has always been accessible.  No standing in long lines.  Not too crowded.  No bad sound system.  Excellent live performances.😎

+1. Because I've been around the scene a long time and have many musician friends and acquaintances, I get notices about far more events that I could ever go to. Some of them are streamed, which is a real bonus at what I call my advanced age. I know some excellent musicians, and some of them show up in different bands and configurations and settings. Almost any night of the week, if I could actually get out there, there are some excellent live performances in venues that I could get to easily, if I had the energy and the will. I get out to see some of them, at bars, restaurants, concerts, special events. No standing in lines, no big crowds, no enormous ticket prices, good sound, good players, good music. Oh, and no tracks ... 

[The Real MC]

All live, no tracks.  I even performed "Final Countdown" intro in its entirety by hand and feet (bass pedals).  I need to make video of that.

 

in 2015 I played keyboards in a live band for a theatrical presentation of Pink Floyd's "The Wall".  I was hoping they were going to enlist a 2nd keyboard player as I knew there were a lot of parts to play.  Nope - just me.  Time to get creative with MIDI.

My Kurzweil MIDIBoard was a godsend pulling off all the parts and automating program and volume changes.  There was so much to play that I hauled the MIDIBoard, Hammond XK3c, Andromeda, Memorymoog, Oberheim OBX, Moog Taurus 3, and various modules to pull it all off.  With the exception of a couple of sequence loops it was all played live.

The guitar player's wife was in the audience at one of the shows.  She is an accomplished musician who works in orchestras.  The last song in the show is "The Trial" with orchestra parts.  Keep in mind that the band is now behind the quasi brick wall and is not visible to the audience.  When she heard "The Trial" being played she was sure she was hearing backing tracks.  After the show her husband corrected her - it was all played live and he watched me play it all.  That was a big compliment to fool expert ears.

Here's the video of me in action, skip to 4:21.  Under the green lamp are the Taurus pedals, I had to play some parts with feet using the pedals as a MIDI controller.

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

Always.  Never played in a band with tracks.

 

dB

[harmonizer]

Our 7 piece covers band plays all parts live.

 

I think it would very difficult to play along with any backing tracks. I based this on what happens during those rare cases when he had to rehearse without a drummer, when we used an electronic metronome as a substitute. Damn metronome keeps changing its tempo (that's my attempt at irony).

 

The big surprise we discovered during such "metronome" rehearsals is that sometimes the metronome seems to slow down during our choruses, where we do a LOT of 3 part vocal harmonies (the origin of my handle). So it must be that we get a bit revved up while singing these 3-part vocal harmonies. We never would have guessed this.

[Justin Havu]

On 8/7/2024 at 10:59 AM, Stokely said:

We had one drummer who ran a click for himself and this did open things up again for things like arpeggios.  A song like Hella Good for example, which has a low-end arp that plays the whole time and it's not a part you'd easily play, especially with one hand while you did the other parts.

 

I did that song years ago with a band.  A lot of splitting across a K2000 and a Quadrasynth.

 

AFAIK, the low arp is just 3 notes (G-G-F), and I always brought it in during the verses only.  I just used some major LFO and envelope trickery with the K2000 to one-shot those notes, then trigger them in time with the drummer, as neither board has an onboard arpeggiator. (Did kinda the same thing with Hungry Like The Wolf).  Hell on Earth because I hate playing split keyboard.

[BluesB3]

Yes but for the most part it's material recorded when musicians could play and sing live.

[marino]

I'll join the majority: I have never used backing tracks, either sequences or audio files, except for teaching or studying purposes.

[lsj]

played with tracks for many years that I sequenced myself, always stayed working till I quit playing out.  right now no money in playing out, it's pathetic.  

 

It's been about four years since I quit.  then I played in a duo.  minimum pay for a three hour night was $400.00 each.  steady tuesday night gig for years payed $500.00  each.  on average we played 25 gigs every month, give or take a few days.  private and corporate  gigs we made between $800 and $1200.00 each.  best paying gig was in Anchorage, Alaska for a week.  all expenses paid and came home with $5,200.00 each.

 

so yes I do love playing in an all live band, much easier, but I am glad and very lucky that I experienced those times that I had.  today I am saddened and feel sorry for the live music scene, with or without tracks.  horrible that the musicians today make about one third what a waitress will make a night.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I’ve done both, depending on the gig. Most of my gigs are fully live. However, I’ve routinely encountered tracks when doing larger church gigs - in that scenario I usually ask the MD to take out any keys tracks there might be. The tracks are usually for special effects, percussion parts beyond what one drummer can do, and sometimes a pad. Things that add a bit more where otherwise it would definitely sound like something was missing. The pad track thing seems to be pretty common, as sort of a “filler” - I don’t see the value added once a group gets beyond a certain size, but it’s everywhere.
 

There’s always a click with the track gigs, which I do like when there’s really ambient transitions and such. I have good timing but the entire band doesn’t necessarily all the time. Arrangements aren’t set in stone either, and can get pretty open-ended - usually Ableton or a similar track system are in play and the MD can switch or loop sections on the fly. So using tracks doesn’t have to totally constrain the format of the gig.
 

For my own stuff, I usually have a few songs for solo gigs where I’ve sequenced some parts - usually a drum track and a bass track for a few modern pop tunes. But otherwise I’ll play kick parts with an actual kick pedal + electronic drum module. The looper possibility is intriguing but it’s another world to learn, so that’s pretty low on the priority list. I’d mainly use that for things like acoustic percussion on accordion gigs and such. More of a novelty factor than a mainstay.

 

My preference is for fully live musicians + a click for specific songs that need it. Some percussion loops are fine too, when they really make a difference. I don’t use arpeggiators because of the click issue. In my mind it would work best to have a master clock to some sort to sync the arpeggiator and the click together. I have no experience with that, so I avoid them entirely and just play what I can live.

 

I’m someone who honestly really enjoys trying to program patches and learn parts to be as identical to the recordings as possible with my available gear. It’s a great challenge, and even if the average audience member can’t tell the difference, I can. The general ballpark is okay for some sounds (mainly secondary stuff), but I try to nail parts as much as I can, with the limits of what I think is a reasonable amount of gear to gig.

 

That’s me as a keys player - for my drum gigs, I do like a click, which I can play pretty well with. I don’t need it, but there are a lot of lower-tempo songs where it’s nice. It’s also a great way to learn where your weaknesses as a player are.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I’ll also say this - some of the newer keyboards have added features that make it easier to get away from using tracks for modern pop/electronic stuff. A great example of this is the Montage/MODX’s ability to sidechain compressor effects to the audio inputs. Stick a mic up to your drummer’s kick drum, enable the side chain, and Bob’s your uncle. No tracks needed for those pumping synth parts that are everywhere in pop music.

[Doug Robinson]

All live here. Just the way I prefer it. I've got one drummer who likes to listen to a click for certain types of grooves and I can honestly say that those are my least favorite performances. He always feels like he's dragging--live performances are dynamic and in my case, influenced by the energy of the room, so 'perfect' is the enemy of the cool.

[RABid]

I've done it all. Fully live, occasional drum machine, computer on stage playing sequenced drums, bass, and extra keys, and used taped tracks. I've always done the sequencing in all cases tracks were used. It is quite easy when you are sequencing the drums. The sequencing was done in the very early 90's using a DOS computer and Betamax tape. Wow, things would be so much easier now.

 

Somehow we only had one train wreck, and wow, it was a big one. The guitarist/singer got off and could not jump back in place with us. We had to stop the music and go to the next song. When we went from computer on stage to a Betamax recording the sets became locked in order. I really did not like that. I'll also say that we were not doing it by choice. We wanted to play and could not find a decent drummer or bass player. It was a way to keep playing in a small town. Sequencing worked very well for most of the early 90's/late 80's synth pop/dance music we were doing.

 

Bottom line, it is a lot more fun to play totally live. When you play to tape or sequence you feel all of the restrictions of being locked into playing a song exactly the same every time. 

[kpl1228]

On 8/6/2024 at 9:05 AM, Jose EB5AGV said:

I wonder if the authenticity of a full live playing is of any value for you. I am proud of our 6 piece band (drums, bass, guitar, sax, voice, keys) playing all live.

 

Yes, when we play a cover, we can't faithfully reproduce a recording and need to simplify, as a sample, the multiple key parts. I do my best to play the most important ones, in that case. As also does the guitar player when there are more than one guitar on the original. And, of course, all singing is live and untouched.

 

Just curious about the value of such an approach nowadays.

Excellent! I know it is a source of pride for even the Styx's and Def Leppard's of the world to have real harmonies and real synth and guitar parts. As technology gets fancier, the temptation is there, but good on ya for not giving in. you can still be tech-savvy and not give in to the "tracks."

The 80's cover bar bands, with NO keyboardists on stage while covering Brit synthpop with keyboards pouring out of the PA cabinets drives me bonkers.

That said, thousands of years ago in the 80's we had a vocal trio (no bass or drums), while running a Yamaha QX1 sequencer with Roland Drum Machine and 360 MidiBass module. I did all the programming. That wasn't anymore "live" than the addicted-to-Ableton laptop warriors playing "live" now. But were NOT on a click. Hypocritical, yes, but as Doc Holliday once said, "my hypocrisy only goes so far."

[Stokely]

3 hours ago, kpl1228 said:

Excellent! I know it is a source of pride for even the Styx's and Def Leppard's of the world to have real harmonies and real synth and guitar parts. As technology gets fancier, the temptation is there, but good on ya for not giving in. you can still be tech-savvy and not give in to the "tracks."

The 80's cover bar bands, with NO keyboardists on stage while covering Brit synthpop with keyboards pouring out of the PA cabinets drives me bonkers.

That said, thousands of years ago in the 80's we had a vocal trio (no bass or drums), while running a Yamaha QX1 sequencer with Roland Drum Machine and 360 MidiBass module. That wasn't anymore "live" than the addicted-to-Ableton laptop warriors playing "live" now. But were NOT on a click. Hypocritical, yes, but as Doc Holliday once said, "my hypocrisy only goes so far."

It's definitely a source of pride for our band, though there could come a day when the main duo (trying to make a living) decides to keep up with the Joneses, for their solo and duo stuff at least.  The day they add it to the band is the day I look for another one, but after 12 years together I don't really see it happening unless we really start losing gigs over it.  There have been a couple "mysterious" regular gigs that we've lost despite the strongest lineup we've ever had, and I suspect it could be a factor.  Our lead singer thinks it's something about her they don't like, misogyny definitely being alive and well in the music/booking scene.  They aren't mature enough to you know, actually tell us when we ask.   I'd never make it booking a band, I'd lose my patience with those people.   Booking people are even worse than musicians as far as "never grew up no matter how old you get" goes...

If Styx comes back around I'll try to see them, missed out last year.  As far as I know, yeah they pull it all off live.   I was a bit surprised to learn that not only does Tool not run tracks, they record to analog tape and without a click track   

[kpl1228]

15 minutes ago, Stokely said:

It's definitely a source of pride for our band, though there could come a day when the main duo (trying to make a living) decides to keep up with the Joneses, for their solo and duo stuff at least.  

There's a band I sit in with....vocal driven, sisters that are all about the band being "accompanists" to the vocals, and their guitarist's  struggling with recent vocal issues. Great people, great talent, but I can TOTALLY see them running full-blown tracks IF they were aware enough of the technology (I think it's the only reason they haven't pulled the trigger yet on doing tracks). I'm never suggesting it.

[analogika]

On 8/7/2024 at 11:43 PM, Docbop said:

So people have to decide is my band  a concert or a show.    

 

funny just yesterday I was in a discussion with a well know music producer about the same thing in recorded music.   What happened to live music and concert vs show is what happened in recorded music too.   We need to get the energy of live performance back, not over processed gobbledygook. 

 

Both have coëxisted ever since the latter became possible. 

There is no reason to assume that they won't continue to do so. 

 

I work with whatever the production requires. I have one tribute band with a LOT of tracks (necessarily) including flamethrowers and pyro cues, played in another tribute band for a few years that was entirely live — both appropriate to how the originals work. The Drawbars trio is, of course, entirely live. 

As an aside: I saw Herbie Hancock live some time in the early 2000's (Future2Future tour), and while I'm pretty sure it was almost all live, it sucked. It was a flashy show with gratuitous quad-surround turntable scratching and "futuristic" elements (iTunes visualiser projected on backdrop) and product placement (including actual shout-outs to Korg Karma and the Emagic guys for providing the audio-visuals). 

[Baggypants]

We all play live when we record the tracks that we mime along to during the gig.

[Docbop]

5 hours ago, analogika said:

As an aside: I saw Herbie Hancock live some time in the early 2000's (Future2Future tour), and while I'm pretty sure it was almost all live, it sucked. It was a flashy show with gratuitous quad-surround turntable scratching and "futuristic" elements (iTunes visualiser projected on backdrop) and product placement (including actual shout-outs to Korg Karma and the Emagic guys for providing the audio-visuals). 

 

    I have the DVD of the Future2Future tour and have watched hundreds of times and watch it with friends.   Incredible band TLC,  Wallace Roney,  Matthew Garrison,  and of course Herbie.    I never thought of it as a flashy show some lighting stuff but it was shot to be a DVD.    I seen a lot of videos of Herbie concerts and never saw or heard of one with all the stuff your talking about.