Which real time controls do you use while playing?

[Jose EB5AGV]

I am a late starter on this world of playing live (just eight gigs so far since July 2022 😅) and am slowly trying to advance my "art" of playing, so to say.

 

On my repertoire, actually I use just some basic cutoff for a song synth intro and also rotary speed changes on several organ sounds. But all my other sounds are previously tailored so I basically play presets on my MODX+/MONTAGE

 

I want to improve and so would like to hear from the seasoned players what you do regarding real time control. And also how (i.e. expression pedals, sliders, push buttons, ...)

 

Sorry if this is a too broad topic 🙏🏻 but I hope other people will also benefit of it.

 

Jose

[Moonglow]

Nothing really extensive. Excluding sustain pedal, in order of frequency of use:

 

1. Pitch bend lever/wheel

 

2. Modulation lever/wheel

 

3. Slider to control volume of a program within a Combi (Korg speak)

 

4. Pedal to advance programs

 

5. Knob set to control filter cutoff

[cassdad]

I also “live” use the chorus (effect) mix / how much chorus to apply to whatever given voice.  “Live” differing conditions require a different amount of effect.

[Anderton]

For pads and slower passages, footpedal to control volume. The Amp envelope generator is on full sustain, so all the expressiveness is in the pedal action. In some cases, another parameter will tie to the pedal. For example, pulling back on the pedal reduces the level but might also add more of a time-based effect. Or, pushing down all the way increases brightness a bit so the sound cuts more.

 

My NI keyboard has a ribbon controller which doesn't get a huge amount of use, but sometimes it's exactly what's needed.

[Stokely]

I've played for a long time but have yet to bring out an expression pedal.  I own a couple (I got a Moog after first getting an FC7 and I didn't like the long throw of the FC7).  I may bring it out live, I may not.  I like simplicity!  I don't really feel the need to be two-handed all the time so I often map the things I'd use expression pedal for to the mod wheel instead.

 

Likewise, a cheap but effective passive two button switch to change patches in regular or song mode (Nord stage 3).   It works fine, but so far I am able to just use a hand to hit the button.  Patch remain with a sustain pedal makes this easier!

Already mentioned, I use a sustain pedal all the time.  Often just to hold a sound while I change patches.   I use a sustain pedal to change the rotary speed as well.  Those are (up to now) the only off-keyboard controls I bother with.

As far as on-keyboard--whatever I feel like    I'll turn on a phaser, or tremolo etc as the mood hits.  The Nord has tap tempo (we thankfully don't run to a click) so I can turn on delay during a song and let it be in time, which is cool.   I'll often mess with leslie drive during a song.

[David Emm]

I love my XKeys as well-suited to my creaky hands, but I mostly wrote off the squishy little pitch & mod buttons when I first took them up seriously. After several years, damned if I didn't figure out how to play them with a fingertip. I was a Moog wheel player first and then a fan of Korg's joysticks. I bought a basic Samson Carbon 49 for playing my E-mu and its wheels are perfectly creditable at show time. Its curious to consider how you adapt over time. 

 

As a piano player first, I've always had a sustain pedal available and sometimes assigned a 2nd one to reverb/delay amount. Otherwise, I never seemed to have an issue for which another control pedal was the answer. I played the Boss pedals assigned to their own synths by hand, tabletop style, until I made the leap to a small mixer's Sends. Between that and onboard effects, I cruised along nicely until I got into DAWs. So while I look at Strymon and Eventide effects with great interest, I mainly live in Plug-in World.

[D. Gauss]

- trem on/off (rarely off though) and drive amount for whurly.

 

-drawbars, drawbars, drawbars, and more drawbars, plus leslie on/off, drive amount, volume, and all the other B3 stuff needed to actually "play" B3

[Stokely]

Ah, if you mean at home and not at a gig, I tend to draw in automation with a mouse.  Everything from fx amounts to cutoff to anything and everything made available to the DAW.  Even mod wheel and I've been known to edit sustain events.  Nothing says rock n roll like drawing in automation!

[Bill W]

I use a single Kronos 61 and don't really touch most of the on-board controls outside of the pitch bend/mod lever. I use two foot switches - one for sustain and one to advance the set list slots. I have an expression pedal that controls overall volume so I can fade a couple of intros/endings in or out. I also have a 3 button Logidy UMI3 with the first two buttons set to C1 and D1 to trigger notes that are out of the range of the keyboard and the 3rd button controls Leslie speed for organ patches (the Logidy plugs into the back of the Kronos with a USB cable). 

[Sean M. H.]

Depends on the gig/genre of course...but for the most partt, I use sustain, pitch and mod for their standard function.  Regarding the rest of the controllers--for context, I use a Kurzweil PC4 mostly--I use them very often, but really for efficiency of patch management, more than modulating effects or anything super-creative.  By patch management, I mean the controllers allow me to turn on/off sounds, and adjust volume of each on the fly, all within one Combi/Multi/Live Set...

 

So for my rock/Top 40 band...I have maybe 3 or 4 songs where I actually have a song-specific patch programmed (on Africa for instance, because I have the solo sound on one area and the comp synth sounds in another area)...Also, if I'm playing a lot of organ on a song, then I use a KB3 mode sound--where the sliders become drawbars and the buttons become chorus/vibrato, percussion, etc...But for the other 30 or so songs we do, I really only need a few patches/Multis on the Kurz.  One such Multi has 8 sounds:

1) piano

2) Rhodes

3) pad...

....and so on...

 

Each of the 8 sounds has a switch/button assigned to mute/unmute...and a slider assigned to volume

As we call the next song to play, I simply activate the sound(s) I need...within a given song, of course I can also activate and deactivate things--or swell in things like strings...never have to switch to another multi for most of our set/show

My aux board (a Fantom-07) is setup similarly, except the specific sounds within the multi are different.   So instead of having piano rhodes, etc...there might be a few pads, couple of monophonic lead synths sounds etc...

[Moonglow]

2 hours ago, Bill W said:

I also have a 3 button Logidy UMI3 with the first two buttons set to C1 and D1 to trigger notes that are out of the range of the keyboard…

I’m not sure I understand how this works, can you please explain/give an example? When I need lower or higher notes, I use octave shift or change to an adjacent patch that contains the range of notes I need. Thanks!

[CEB]

Depends on the gig.  Hopefully my needs are basic but in my old modern Pop gig the control needs were extensive.  Assignable pedals were necessary.  I used 3 expression pedals 2 sustain pedals and 2 assignable switches.  If I bought an organ then there was swell pedal and switch for the Leslie (Vent being fed by the 11-pin socket) .

 

In the new Modern Pop gig it's turning out to be more of the same but I'm not bringing an organ.   A 2nd keyboardist would have helped a lot.   It's the material and .... tracks are for pussies.

 

[Tom Williams]

To me the beauty of current digital keyboards is their plethora of expression options.

 

I have a PC4-7, on which I use controllers differently in two different contexts.

• Church
  • I have a multi setup with switches and faders for 888 clonewheel, piano, synth brass, and strings in positions 1-4, bringing 'em in as needed for each song.  The last 5 faders are dedicated upper clonewheel drawbars.
  • Most pedal usage in this context is damper pedal and Leslie speed toggle pedal.  I usually bring, but rarely use, volume CC pedal.
• Band
  • Two keyboard stack, comprising the aforementioned PC4-7 and an 88 key MIDI controller, with channel aftertouch on both.  Out of habit, i'll call the external controller the "lower manual."
  • Lots of fader-as-drawbar use on upper.
  • Pitch bend wheel (2 semitones) on both
  • Mod wheel usually for bringing distortion on organs or guitars
  • Separate expression pedal for each keyboard, both of which I use to balance between them for accompaniment / lead playing
  • a bunch of switch pedals.  From right to left ->
    • Lower manual sustain
    • lower manual sostenuto (rarely used)
    • PC4 sustain
    • PC4 Sostenuto (occasional use)
    • PC4 soft pedal (never use)
    • PC4 aux switch and leslie speed -- use it all the time
    • Finally, a CC on the left that looks like a switch pedal. sold as a "half damper", but I use it for an extra variable controller for things like asymmetric steel guitar bends.
  • Ribbon controller.  I used it all the time on the PC3, but due to programming quirks on the PC4 I've been unable to make it work well.  It was calibrated to allow things like trills and hammer-ons, as well as intervallic pitch bends and jumps.  Currently use it almost none. 😞 

[Thethirdapple]

I would distinguish a nuance between the realtime modulation of a sound and the physical controller to action that modulation…

 

physical controllers as laid out on most workstations/keyboards, simply suck for truly expressive playing.

 

In terms of realtime expressive modulations available, the sky is the limit. Playing piano or organ parts is pretty straight forward as others have mentioned. But there are endless parameters to add expression in realtime if one were to venture a bit... And people such as @Stephen Kay have dedicated a near lifetime to creating expressive solutions for keyboardist!

 

@Tom Williams has beautifully illustrated the jungle of controllers which he is not alone in amassing, I have a similar list of controllers of all sorts to create realtime modulations. Vangelis was obviously a master of realtime modulation with his crazy setup and  one of my inspirations for building our own real-time controllers is Steve Howes custom build: 

 

luckily i dont have huge toes, and motorized foot faders are the bomb! 🥸

 

 

 

 

PEACE

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[Tusker]

I play piano, multi-keyboards and synth as instrument. Most gigs are of the first two categories. If it's multi-keyboards, I always use a swell pedal, and pitch bend and modulation at a minimum. Sometimes there are sliders and knobs and switches. It depends on the complexity of the music.

 

On those rare but exciting Jazz or Jazz-adjacent gigs where I can play a synth as instrument I take along my Touche. Then I get to do silly stuff like this. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JimboKeys]

Projects: One-man band, tribute band, original prog band

 

Motif XF sliders – B-3X drawbars, arpeggiator part levels on one song

Motif XF knobs – B-3X output level, arpeggiator part panning on one song

Motif XF switches – B-3X percussion and C/V, toggle between 2 VST sounds (Cantabile route enable)

Expression pedal, damper pedal

Pitch bend and mod wheel when my left hand isn’t occupied with playing bass

Footswitch that is variously B3-X rotary speed, lyrics/chord scroll, drum track start/stop, Cantabile sound set change

Sometimes foot controller with two buttons for backing track start and next song

 

-- Jimbo

[funkyhammond]

20 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

On my repertoire, actually I use just some basic cutoff for a song synth intro and also rotary speed changes on several organ sounds.

 

For synth, real-time controls for filter cutoff and resonance I find very useful if I want to be really expressive with a lead, especially if the mod wheel is already mapped to vibrato. Being able to adjust the attack of the filter and/or amplitude envelope can also be handy.

 

I sometimes use a synth with aftertouch (Moog Sub37) to free up my left hand for comping on another board. I'll use the Moog for leads and have the aftertouch mapped to either pitch bend, vibrato, filter cutoff, or some other expressive modulation. Yes, all that can also be done with an expression pedal instead of aftertouch, but for me it feels like a better "connection" to the notes I'm playing when done with the hands as long as the board has good sensitivity with its aftertouch (which the Moog does). 

 

I play a fair bit of organ, so aside from a switch for rotary speed, I find an expression pedal ("swell" pedal in Hammond parlance) pretty essential. On organ, pulling back on the pedal doesn't only reduce volume, it also makes the sound more mellow and reduces overdrive. Mind you, there are many types of music where I barely touch it, so it really depends on what I'm playing. Same goes with drawbar controls. I will have patches with different drawbars settings and that will be enough for certain music but for other music I will want to have physical drawbars to manipulate. 

 

I also will use an expression pedal for wah especially on clav. It can be much more expressive than a repeating wah-wah or auto-wah effect.

 

But it really comes down to what music you are performing and where you think having more expressivity or control will make a difference. 

[Konnector]

I reeeally like to play with the pitch bend wheel......but I've had this new synth now for over a week and I still haven't been able to locate it!  😁

 

[funkyhammond]

31 minutes ago, Konnector said:

I reeeally like to play with the pitch bend wheel......but I've had this new synth now for over a week and I still haven't been able to locate it!  😁

 

 

I thought it was pretty obvious but it's also right there on page 41 of the quick start guide. How could you miss it?

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

Many thanks for all the great, real-life information!. I am studying it to see where I can apply it to my playing and what to add to my rig.

 

Definitely, an expression pedal is in order. The Montage/MODX+ can assign it to the Super Knob, so anything is possible from there 👍🏻

 

I will also probably add a couple of foot switches. Interesting times ahead! 🎹🚀

 

Thanks again 🫂

 

Jose

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

16 hours ago, Konnector said:

I reeeally like to play with the pitch bend wheel......but I've had this new synth now for over a week and I still haven't been able to locate it!  😁

 

It's the round knob.....  Can't miss it!

[eric]

Fun topic! Here are the things I use very regularly.

 

• Drawbars for organ
• Pitch bend
• Modulation wheel
• Expression pedal for organ swell
• Separate expression pedal for volume fades, wah wah, filter cutoff, delay changes, and many other things (in Nord speak, these are called "morphs")
• Stomp switch for Leslie/Vent fast slow
• Sustain pedal
• Various knob tweaks in real time

[Tusker]

2 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

I will also probably add a couple of foot switches.

 

Foot switches are particularly awesome for changing articulations or timbre on the fly. 

 

2 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

Definitely, an expression pedal is in order.

 

👍 It's the approach of Jo Zawinul.

 

 

 

... and Vangelis.

 

[Tusker]

Also Dave Sancious uses his swell pedal to good effect. His Motif is a grandfather to your Montage/ModX. 

 

The ergonomics of pedal placement can become an issue. Floor space around a keyboard rig is scarce and we all bring different habits from previous instruments. Pianists have developed strong sustain pedaling with the right foot. Organists have developed strong swell pedaling with the right foot.

 

I noticed that DS often planted his left foot on his swell pedal and his right foot on the sustain pedal. Over time that became natural for me. YMMV. All the best.

[eric]

4 minutes ago, Tusker said:

Also Dave Sancious uses his swell pedal to good effect. His Motif is a grandfather to your Montage/ModX. 

 

The ergonomics of pedal placement can become an issue. Floor space around a keyboard rig is scarce and we all bring different habits from previous instruments. Pianists have developed strong sustain pedaling with the right foot. Organists have developed strong swell pedaling with the right foot.

 

I noticed that DS planted his left foot on his swell pedal and his right foot on the sustain pedal. Over time that became natural for me. YMMV. All the best.

 

You're very right with regards to ergonomics of pedal placement...muscle memory plays a big role here. I've used some version of a very similar pedal board for 30+ years, with sustain in the middle for my right foot, flanked by two expression pedals (organ swell on the left), and my Leslie stomp switch in the bottom left corner. I've used this all for so long, it is just habit to know where my feet go. Most of the time I'm keeping my right foot around the sustain pedal and both expression pedals, with my left foot stomping the Leslie switch.

 

Here's a picture of my current pedal configuration - live rig in the rear and a new backup version (under construction) in the front.

[Finale]

- Several switch and c.c. pedals.

- Poly and mono AT.

- Whatever is defined for knobs and sliders and switches for each program/combi/setlist/etc.

- My new telepathic controller.

 

[Tusker]

12 minutes ago, eric said:

Here's a picture of my current pedal configuration - live rig in the rear and a new backup version (under construction) in the front.

 

😎

Do you find yourself using the right swell pedal for different purposes than the left one? If I have a swell pedal to the right of the sustain, it's for rhythmic stuff like wah where my left foot just can't keep up. Wondering if the placement matters for you.

[eric]

33 minutes ago, Tusker said:

 

😎

Do you find yourself using the right swell pedal for different purposes than the left one? If I have a swell pedal to the right of the sustain, it's for rhythmic stuff like wah where my left foot just can't keep up. Wondering if the placement matters for you.

 

The left pedal is solely for organ swell. The right pedal does many things - fading volume of various parts in and out, crossfades, filter sweeps, wah FX control, delay FX control, and multiple other things. I have dug really deep into the NS3 morph functions. My right foot does better for things like rhythmic wah and other similar applications.

[funkyhammond]

BTW, I find that an expression pedal with a "long throw" (i.e. long range of motion/tilt) is essential for getting more subtle control between min and max. The Yamaha FC7 (which I think is what you see in eric's photo above) is a very popular and affordable choice and what I've also been using for many years. However, if you play while standing up, a long throw pedal might be more difficult because of how much you have to angle your foot back to get the pedal to its full tilt. In which case, a short throw pedal like a Roland EV-5 might be better suited, but you are sacrificing subtlety of control. 

 

EDIT: Some CV expression pedals might not work great with some keyboards unless the board has a setting to adjust for different potentiometers/response curves of different pedal makers. The Nords are good for having various settings for different CV pedals. Traditionally, Yamaha and Roland boards worked better with the respective pedals made by that manufacturer but that may no longer be the case for the more pro boards if they have menu settings now for different pedals. But since you are using Yamaha boards, the Yamaha FC7 will be a natural fit anyway.

[Jose EB5AGV]

37 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

BTW, I find that an expression pedal with a "long throw" (i.e. long range of motion/tilt) is essential for getting more subtle control between min and max. The Yamaha FC7 (which I think is what you see in eric's photo above) is a very popular and affordable choice and what I've also been using for many years. However, if you play while standing up, a long throw pedal might be more difficult because of how much you have to angle your foot back to get the pedal to its full tilt. In which case, a short throw pedal like a Roland EV-5 might be better suited, but you are sacrificing subtlety of control. 

 

EDIT: Some CV expression pedals might not work great with some keyboards unless the board has a setting to adjust for different potentiometers/response curves of different pedal makers. The Nords are good for having various settings for different CV pedals. Traditionally, Yamaha and Roland boards worked better with the respective pedals made by that manufacturer but that may no longer be the case for the more pro boards if they have menu settings now for different pedals. But since you are using Yamaha boards, the Yamaha FC7 will be a natural fit anyway.

 

I play seated (well, really seated high) so the FC-7 is suitable.

 

I already own three FC-7 (all of them bought used but like new over the last three years) and have two of them installed on my two home setups, but I don't really use them yet, only tested that they work.

 

My plan is to put the third one on the gig rig and program and learn to use it on the home setups, where they are connected to the MONTAGEs which so would be compatible with the MODX+ on the live rig (sometimes I gig with a MONTAGE, but lately the lower weight is winning 😬)