Got excited for a new Korg workstation....

[Paul Woodward]

Very excited to see a new Korg Workstation announced in my inbox this morning.

Don't get your hopes up, it's a gray Nautilus. C'mon Korg it's time for this generations Kronos which just blew me away on launch

https://www.korg.co.uk/products/nautilus-at-gray?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Nautilus AT Gray - first announcement&_kx=23HCej9C003WbpD7lt1rs2ctYnVoYZ-zrdm3BoQfHaBS2SOq2WmPQsiH1HGU55CF.UtxL7P

[zephonic]

I just got my third Nautilus 73. Had sound cutoff/voice stealing issues with the first one, the second was DOA. Hoping third time’s a charm.

 

I love the way it plays and sounds, feels the most natural to me of the Big 3. I hope this one won’t have the aforementioned issue.

 

I just don’t understand why Korg is not adding aftertouch to the 73, it would be the ideal keyboard for me.

[Still VanDerGraaf]

That was disappointing! Obviously the Nautilus is very capable but when are we ever going to see a proper Kronos replacement? 

 

The Oasys launched 20 years ago next year. 

 

So the vast majority of the tech/models in their workstations has given them 13 years of mass market sales since the launch of Kronos. My point being not that they are outdated sonically/playability-wise (far from it), but that surely the R&D costs are settled by now.

 

It really is time for something new- as DAWs are used by the majority, perhaps adding some features geared towards live performance would be welcome. I have often thought that a vocal harmoniser in a workstation would be killer, for example. 

 

I am certainly not holding my breath though. 

[D. Gauss]

In 2024, I just don't understand the appeal of a workstation vs. a nice lightweight keyboard coupled with a laptop or ipad/iphone.  I would be interested in a new, lightweight keyboard that has USB-C audio in that incorporates a 60 or 100 watt USB-C power delivery supply to power laptop/ipads right from the keyboard.

[JamPro]

13 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

......a nice lightweight keyboard coupled with a laptop or ipad/iphone.  I would be interested in a new, lightweight keyboard that has USB-C audio in that incorporates a 60 or 100 watt USB-C power delivery supply to power laptop/ipads right from the keyboard.

 

Why not just build a laptop and DA converters right into a decent keyboard instrument and let the consumer curate their own sound-set?  It would be cool if consumers can upgrade RAM and SSD as needed.

[D. Gauss]

56 minutes ago, JamPro said:

 

Why not just build a laptop and DA converters right into a decent keyboard instrument and let the consumer curate their own sound-set?  It would be cool if consumers can upgrade RAM and SSD as needed.

Why not? 1) Because computers get outdated almost as soon as you get them home. 2) Plus, are you gonna put a Windoze machine in it or a Crapple? And also, what you're asking for is basically what already sorta exists... a "workstation."  

[Stokely]

I have no desire to bring out a laptop or ipad.  Did the ipad thing for a while playing B-3X, didn't really get on with it.  Sounded great, but I had some glitches and it really wasn't the same seamless experience as using built-in sounds IMO.    I'll be getting a new workstation once I make a couple sales, and my tradition of never actually using the sequencer on a workstation I've owned will likely continue   

I'm all software at home though, so certainly it would be cheaper for me to do so....I have the laptop(s) and any sound under the sun ready to roll.  Just don't want to use it live, not at this point anyway.

[J.F.N.]

I guess the more powerful the off the shelf ARM platforms become, the more powerful machines of this type, software in the box, we will see. It seems KORG are no longer doing any internal work on processing platforms, so for a successor to Kronos worth talking about they will have to up their ARM game quite a bit.

[ElmerJFudd]

Korg plays the color game once again.   Same Kronos-lite, new color. 

 

[ProfD]

IMO, KB workstations are either outdated or under-utilized at this point.

 

Very few musicians actually program sounds or use the sampler and sequencer on a KB workstation.

 

Many musicians use a KB workstation as a glorified digital piano mainly for playing bread & butter sounds.

 

Watch any live performance and it becomes more evident that musicians are pulling stock sounds on KB workstations.

 

Of course, the big 3 manufacturers will continue producing KB workstations as long as sales support it.😎

[ElmerJFudd]

7 minutes ago, ProfD said:

IMO, KB workstations are either outdated or under-utilized at this point.

 

Very few musicians actually program sounds or use the sampler and sequencer on a KB workstation.

 

Many musicians use a KB workstation as a glorified digital piano mainly for playing bread & butter sounds.

 

Watch any live performance and it becomes move evident that musicians are pulling stock sounds on K workstations.

 

Of course, the big 3 manufacturers will continue producing KB workstations as long as sales support it.😎

I think that is their calculation - I would imagine sales of flagships have slowed significantly - especially as composition devices.   That seems to have shifted over to Ableton Live, Logic, etc.  Market data continues to show more affordable instruments paired with a laptop/tablet/phone is the trend, hence having an audio interface in the keyboard is a strong selling point. 

[Paul Woodward]

Can only imagine what a genuine Kronos replacement would be like now. Would be crazy powerful if you think of the impact the Kronos (and Oasys) had on launch. Still, bet your average iPad has more power under the hood...

[J.F.N.]

15 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Can only imagine what a genuine Kronos replacement would be like now. Would be crazy powerful if you think of the impact the Kronos (and Oasys) had in launch. Still, bet your average iPad has more power under the hood...

 

Now with the M platform iPads indeed!

[ProfD]

19 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Can only imagine what a genuine Kronos replacement would be like now. Would be crazy powerful if you think of the impact the Kronos (and Oasys) had in launch. 

I'm curious to know what more a Kronos replacement would do especially when as I've mentioned, most folks are not using the full range of features and functionality in current KB workstations.😎

[J.F.N.]

8 minutes ago, ProfD said:

I'm curious to know what more a Kronos replacement would do especially when as I've mentioned, most folks are not using the full range of features and functionality in current KB workstations.😎

 

Opsix, Modwave, Wavestate, KingKorg, as new modules?

 

 

[Stokely]

New modules as stated.

Now, my wishlist items are mine alone so there's that    

A lot quicker loading times, speaking of Korg in particular.

My own preference is to NOT have single vs multi modes.  I much prefer the Modx and Fantom approach of "everything is a scene/performance".   But then I'm not doing multitimbral sequencing.

Improvements in sound are always possible, in particular with Korg the cx3 needs work (IMO).

Poly AT done well would be a nice feature!

Having a global EQ/compressor is pretty handy I've found, as is more dedicated controls.   Love the superknob macro that the Montage/Modx has (I know it gets grief for throbbing!).  More of that kind of control, and speaking of the Nautilus, more controls.

But yeah things are hardly terrible the way they are is the way I see it.   I don't feel limited at all with what I have or what has been out there for a while now.

[ProfD]

33 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

Opsix, Modwave, Wavestate, KingKorg, as new modules?

The Kronos already has 9 engines.  For grins and giggles, add the 4 modules above. 

 

Given the nature of menu-diving when it comes to programming a KB workstation, I doubt that anything ground-breaking or revolutionary sound-wise would be gleaned from having 13 engines in a *new* Kronos. 

 

An updated Kronos would still be a glorified DP with expanded synth-like capabilities and unused features and functionalities.😁😎

[Radagast]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

Would be crazy powerful if you think of the impact the Kronos (and Oasys) had in launch. Still, bet your average iPad has more power under the hood...

The OASYS was not what it was supposed to be when it finally arrived.  I read the specs of the prototype shown at NAMM many years ago.   

[Radagast]

5 hours ago, Still VanDerGraaf said:

That was disappointing! Obviously the Nautilus is very capable but when are we ever going to see a proper Kronos replacement? 

 

The Oasys launched 20 years ago next year. 

 

 

The replacement for the Kronos will come from another company.  The new Roland Fantom and the Kurzweil K2700 come close.  Korg is too busy making musical toys out of raspberry Pi processors.  

[J.F.N.]

3 minutes ago, Radagast said:

The replacement for the Kronos will come from another company.  The new Roland Fantom and the Kurzweil K2700 come close.  Korg is too busy making musical toys out of raspberry Pi processors.  

 

At least Kurzweil are using FPGAs, no idea if Roland still are in with ASIC stuff, I doubt it.

[J.F.N.]

Don't hold your breath..

 

"Nautilus is known as a “living fossil” because it has remained relatively unchanged in the past 450 million years."

 

[JoJoB3]

6 hours ago, JamPro said:

 

Why not just build a laptop and DA converters right into a decent keyboard instrument and let the consumer curate their own sound-set?  It would be cool if consumers can upgrade RAM and SSD as needed.

 
You can usually update both if you stop supporting Apple crap. 
Even better bang4buck would be to build/buy a mini-pc, small audio interface (or use asio4all), add a small screen or a touchscreen of choice.  Load it with whatever instruments you want.  Making sure adequate power requirements are met would be the only hurdle.
 

[David Emm]

7 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

Opsix, Modwave, Wavestate, KingKorg, as new modules?

 

I have fond memories of my 01W and Tritons, but its hard to see a bigger Kronos as necessarily being better. Those first three would be cool additions, but son of a bleep, any one of them is already like a workstation engine minus the sequencer. Each one covers a LOT of traditional territory well within its own method.

 

Maybe the weighty cartage works for some, but I see a Nautilus or the like as potent central studio controllers. Hauling them around casually seems counter-intuitive. I'm spoiled by my stack of softsynths.

 

I speak as one who all but needs a Korg tattoo, as I heart their basic voice. Praise Hotop, Jerry the K and the rest of the voicing team! My Logic Sampler library is, in part, a titanic warehouse of their goods.   

 

Its also an easier decision as a live player because audiences rarely know or care jack about your gear. WE eyeball those rigs, but everyone else just says "That's a pretty shade of red" about the Nord.   

 

I'd never argue against anyone's choice of live rig, but I can't help but grin at how many players here have a lightweight setup close to "VR-09 over MODX7." The sound quality of things now means never having to play the Mind Your Backs Tango with a workstation that weighs more than a tractor. 😬

[David Emm]

6 hours ago, Radagast said:

The replacement for the Kronos will come from another company. The new Roland Fantom and the Kurzweil K2700 come close.  Korg is too busy making musical toys out of raspberry Pi processors.  

 

Oh, I dunno. I'm indifferent to the processor when its use led to the Wavestate, a very practical, lively reworking of the Wavestation. That one was a circle of Hell to program through a puny display. The successor makes things blossom by bringing its inner powers to the surface. Its like a secret weapon. If that's what the Pi platform can do, I want to see the synth that employs 3 of them. It'll probably have a mode that safely flies you to the grocery store. 

 

I do agree with you about "musical toys," though. If a build is too crappy, it does a serious disservice to a good engine.

[J.F.N.]

11 minutes ago, David Emm said:

 

I have fond memories of my 01W and Tritons, but its hard to see a bigger Kronos as necessarily being better. Those first three would be cool additions, but son of a bleep, any one of them is already like a workstation engine minus the sequencer. Each one covers a LOT of traditional territory well within its own method.

 

Maybe the weighty cartage works for some, but I see a Nautilus or the like as potent central studio controllers. Hauling them around casually seems counter-intuitive. I'm spoiled by my stack of softsynths.

 

I speak as one who all but needs a Korg tattoo, as I heart their basic voice. Praise Hotop, Jerry the K and the rest of the voicing team! My Logic Sampler library is, in part, a titanic warehouse of their goods.   

 

Its also an easier decision as a live player because audiences rarely know or care jack about your gear. WE eyeball those rigs, but everyone else just says "That's a pretty shade of red" about the Nord.   

 

I'd never argue against anyone's choice of live rig, but I can't help but grin at how many players here have a lightweight setup close to "VR-09 over MODX7." The sound quality of things now means never having to play the Mind Your Backs Tango with a workstation that weighs more than a tractor. 😬

 

I have the original KingKORG, tbh, it's a very good VA for emulation of a lot of useful sounds when playing pop/rock music. I don't think I ever will rid of mine, it's like the equivalent of a rompler, but for classic common subtractive synth sounds.

[Konnector]

All that wasted empty panel space. Such a shame. Why can't they add some knobs/sliders for a wee bit more $$. 

What's stopping you Korg???  All your competition offer similar workstations with knobs and sliders galore. Join the party!!

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Konnector said:

All that wasted empty panel space. Such a shame. Why can't they add some knobs/sliders for a wee bit more $$. 

What's stopping you Korg???  All your competition offer similar workstations with knobs and sliders galore. Join the party!!

 

I think maybe they felt that the "overwhelming" front panel was hindering sales, it could have looked intimidating to some potential buyers. But what I can't understand is why they don't fully support adding more controls via their own devices. You can't add a NanoKontrol to operate CX3 drawbars for example. Their own add-ons should easily fully integrate. 

[YashN]

8 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

 
You can usually update both if you stop supporting Apple crap. 
Even better bang4buck would be to build/buy a mini-pc, small audio interface (or use asio4all), add a small screen or a touchscreen of choice.  Load it with whatever instruments you want.  Making sure adequate power requirements are met would be the only hurdle.
 

 

A good setup like that with a Keyboard + MIDI Controller is probably the most flexible setup you can make, cost effective as well.

 

Korg has a lot of experience with workstations now, including multi-synthesis ones like OASYS, Kronos 1, 2, Nautilus. Simultaneously, they launched smaller offerings with more focused methods, like the OpSix, ModWave and WaveState, brought enhancements to those, and the possibility of custom coding with the Minilogue XD. They also have VSTis, and have worked on even better UX & UIs on iPads.

It is reasonable to expect a Kronos 3 gathering all the internals of these methods, the controls, tablet control and other improvements. I would definitely like to see more controls (something I want for Kurzweils, which are my weapons of choice), and maybe for Korg to integrate more Physical Modeling Engines or a more versatile one if that's the way they choose to go.

 

OTOH, people have hardly explored everything in an existing Kronos or Nautilus - they're versatile enough to last a lifetime Sound-wise (I think the same thing of Kurzweil V.A.S.T. workstations), provided you delve into Sound Synthesis yourself. Also learn all the workstation capabilities, like the Sequencer, Arpeggiator, KARMA if you have it, etc...

 

To come back to what we were saying above: someone tried to convince me on GS that the Kronos is more versatile than a Kurzweil. In the end, I noticed that the internals are really a PC + Linux based system. Even the GUI looks like you're using a small screen showing a rather normal-looking O.S. or Application GUI. So instead, I decided to update my PC Server so that I can use a collection of Virtual Instruments with Reaper on it...

[YashN]

A common problem with Digital Synths: it is so easy to make a small set of Controls be paged and use menus that this becomes a de facto way of proceeding.

The Novation Peak/Summit doesn't skimp on controls: it provides a lot of realtime controls on the front panel. Hydrasynth also has shortcut buttons that reflects the architecture sub-components. Yamaha's Montage M, like Hydrasynth, shows what the controls are mapped to on specialised screens, which help a lot too.

 

Can you imagine a Kronos 3 or a Kurzweil with a lot of controls like the Novations? That would be amazing.

[Sean M. H.]

I see both sides of it.  I do agree that workstations are somewhat an outdated concept (with laptops, tablets etc handling the bulk of true sequencing duties)...also agree that many/most players don't even use existing workstations to their full potential.

 

However...with this particular product/family we're talking about, there are a few relatively minor* upgrades that would make a HUGE difference.  If Korg released a board that 1)brought back at least some of the controllers from the Kronos (especially the sliders)...2) had aftertouch...3) got rid of the excessive long bootup that both Kronos and Nautilus have...and 4) improve, at least incrementally, the bread and butter sounds (pianos, organ, etc)...that would already be a great board that many (including myself) might opt for instead of Fantom or Forte/K2700. 

 

*I say "minor"...not to be confused with "easy".  Minor in the sense that it's stuff they've already done before, or stripped out over the years.  None of this stuff is earthshattering or bleeding edge.