New M4 iPad Pro

[Paul Woodward]

Looks an absolute beast in terms of spec, but do we need a device that thin? Final cut and Logic both getting new versions so something for musicians and artists today.

Logic Pro 2 now has session players as well as drummers, and new effects and mastering options.

BUT, my M2 has had about 10 hours use since I bought it less than a year ago and I have yet to own any iPad released within about 5 years to break a sweat so I think my wallet is safe....although the Pencil Pro was tempting for the artwork I do...shame it's not backwards compatible 😞

[J.F.N.]

Now we all are just waiting for Main Stage!

[Paul Woodward]

Just now, J.F.N. said:

Now we all are just waiting for Main Stage!

Maybe at the developer conference? Nothing today, it was all about AI, OLED, Final Cut and Logic, as well as the speed increases and being the thinnest Apple device ever...

[Paul Woodward]

https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-pro/

[J.F.N.]

I am still very impressed by my iPad Air M1 (first M1 iPad Air), using it for music only, and it's just rock solid!

[Paul Woodward]

This is the thing with Apple, they keep pushing tech that few of us really need day to day. You can do amazing stuff with a standard iPad from a few years ago...and it niggles me that, unlike other tech such as games consoles or synths, they never really 'max' out a device with any apps or applications before releasing a new '4x' better model. I mean, what will push an M2 to the limits and now we have M4.

[J.F.N.]

5 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

This is the thing with Apple, they keep pushing tech that few of us really need day to day. You can do amazing stuff with a standard iPad from a few years ago...and it niggles me that, unlike other tech such as games consoles or synths, they never really 'max' out a device with any apps or applications before releasing a new '4x' better model. I mean, what will push an M2 to the limits and now we have M4.

 

Indeed, tbh, for my keyboard lab I have an iPad Gen8 for midi stuff, practice and rehearsal for playing tunes, scores, etc. and I have never experienced any limitations. For my personal life I have a Gen9 with SIM card as well, that I use for everyhing I used to do with a computer (I never use any of my computers for personal stuff anymore). I doubt any of these three iPads, including the Air M1, will ever need to be replaced because I feel I have "grown out" of them, it will rather be Apple pushing me when they abandon the hardware one day with a new iOS version... 

[Paul Woodward]

7 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

 

Indeed, tbh, for my keyboard lab I have an iPad Gen8 for midi stuff, practice and rehearsal for playing tunes, scores, etc. and I have never experienced any limitations. For my personal life I have a Gen9 with SIM card as well, that I use for everyhing I used to do with a computer (I never use any of my computers for personal stuff anymore). I doubt any of these three iPads, including the Air M1, will ever need to be replaced because I feel I have "grown out" of them, it will rather be Apple pushing me when they abandon the hardware one day with a new iOS version... 

Similar, pro M2 for work (graphics etc) and a gen 9 with the Keystage as a sound module (and a couch surfing tablet)

[Ibarch]

New hardware is not what the musician needs from an iPad. I can't remember the last time I thought an iPad couldn't cope with the workload. Maybe about 2018.

 

What the platform needs is the software. Until the likes of Arturia V collection, Omnisphere, Kompact are available then it will remain a niche product with only challenger level apps. 

 

But till Apple remove the 30% tax for entry and relinquish their death grip on control of software installs, I don't see it happening. 

 

So M4 iPad, no. Not for me. 

[Paul Woodward]

I didnt expect the M4 to be honest, despite it being 'leaked' earlier. This is the second time they have put the newest chip into a tablet rather than a laptop. You would like to think that would be some sign of real grown up programs and soundsets coming down the line....

[J.F.N.]

1 minute ago, Ibarch said:

New hardware is not what the musician needs from an iPad. I can't remember the last time I thought an iPad couldn't cope with the workload. Maybe about 2018.

 

What the platform needs is the software. Until the likes of Arturia V collection, Omnisphere, Kompact are available then it will remain a niche product with only challenger level apps. 

 

But till Apple remove the 30% tax for entry and relinquish their death grip on control of software installs, I don't see it happening. 

 

So M4 iPad, no. Not for me. 

 

Well, resellers require margins too, and 30% is far from uncommon, so from that perspective I don't see the problem.

 

[Ibarch]

Just now, J.F.N. said:

 

Well, resellers require margins too, and 30% is far from uncommon, so from that perspective I don't see the problem.

 

 

The fact that these libraries do not exist on iPad shows that developers very much see the problem, even if you do not. 

[J.F.N.]

7 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

 

The fact that these libraries do not exist on iPad shows that developers very much see the problem, even if you do not. 

 

I don't think, in a larger perspective, any developer see 30% in distribution b2c as a problem. Ime it's more about maintaining yet another platform, in which not yet is commodity for the purpose in our case. If they knew there would be 50000 new customer the first year, and growing for each year, they would probably not hesitate doing the necessary investments for going all in with a new platform.

 

(This is the reality I live and work in, I'm not a developer, but I work for an audio software company, nothing that has anything to do with synths and keyboards, but the conversation has been on our table too..)

[RABid]

I watched the announcement, got on the Apple store to poke around, and then ordered ... ... ... the MacBookAir 15" M3 1TB. It was the $500 trade in for my M1 Air and 12 month no interest that sealed the deal. My M1 Air was powerful enough, but the small screen was driving me crazy. 

 

As for todays announcements, I am most interested in Logic Pro 2. They gave no clue when it would hit the app store. The "new" magic keyboard and pen actually persuaded me not to consider the new iPad Pro. I have the M1 iPad Pro with a magic keyboard and pen. I don't want to have to update the accessories and they did not saw if the new iPad Pro was backward compatible with the keyboard or pen I currently own.

[Paul Woodward]

Annoyingly, the Pencil Pro won’t work with the M2 iPad Pro nor do older devices work with the new iPads. It’s essentially a reboot for the iPad range leaving a whole range of devices (four pencils?) and accessories that might not work together if you don’t do your research.

I guess Apple are hoping people will just keep it nice and simple and buy into the new gear and then they can phase out older models/accessories?

[adamcz]

I have an iPad Pro that predates the M series chips. I want to upgrade to a 13" screen because I use it for reading music at gigs. The speed/performance on my older device is totally fine though. I use a laptop for real video and audio work. I wish Apple made a cheaper 13" iPad because viewing pdfs doesn't require a fast chip.

[HammondDave]

12 minutes ago, adamcz said:

I have an iPad Pro that predates the M series chips. I want to upgrade to a 13" screen because I use it for reading music at gigs. The speed/performance on my older device is totally fine though. I use a laptop for real video and audio work. I wish Apple made a cheaper 13" iPad because viewing pdfs doesn't require a fast chip.

They do now with the new 13” iPad Air. 

[Docbop]

My socks are still on my feet so nothing I'm going to be buying.   I was hoping for more about M4 but they just covered the basics, have to wait for WWDC to hear more about the Pro and Max chips design.     Logic for iPad gets stem separator so hope that comes to Logic Pro X soon.   I remember when Logic for iPad came out and all the people talking about using it for away from home work, but seemed little my little most have gone back to their MacBooks.    Something many rumours talked about and nothing was said about is charging.   Many thought MagSafe or wireless charging would happen but no so only one port for everything.   Also didn't seem to get the camera updates people were speculating either.   Now to wait a month for WWDC and see what hardware gets a nod there. 

[BluMunk]

5 minutes ago, Docbop said:

all the people talking about using it for away from home work, but seemed little my little most have gone back to their MacBooks.

Marketing experts might know differently, but my guess is that the laptop form factor and ui is just much easier for audio work than a tablet. Integrated keyboard, and a built-in "stand" so you can set it on your lap or a table. And, the screen can be in a different place/position than the physical interface (keyboard/trackpad). 

The benefits of a tablet being slightly lighter/smaller don't really outweigh the things you give up.

[adamcz]

31 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

They do now with the new 13” iPad Air. 

I don't consider $800 to be a cheaper tablet. $400-500 would be nice. I still might get it.

[D. Gauss]

I'd take a headphone jack over an M4.

[Paul Woodward]

21 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

I'd take a headphone jack over an M4.

Reason I grabbed a 9th gen before stock went...

[HammondDave]

20 minutes ago, adamcz said:

I don't consider $800 to be a cheaper tablet. $400-500 would be nice. I still might get it.

I still think its a good choice as its $500 less expensive and does everything you or I would need. 
 

I am considering it as my main performance iPad as my current 2021 iPad pro has all my performance data on it. I would like to use that one just for home and for a performance backup. 

[Ibarch]

6 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

I still think its a good choice as its $500 less expensive and does everything you or I would need. 

 

If that were true, I would genuinely consider an iPad provided the cost is significantly less than a Microsoft Surface. But at $800 upwards, that advantage disappears.

 

Unfortunately it's a non starter. IPads don't do anything like near what a full PC does.  I'm not going to ditch Zenology Pro, Omnisphere and Keyscape for some random collection of apps that don't get close. 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

This is the thing with Apple, they keep pushing tech that few of us really need day to day. You can do amazing stuff with a standard iPad from a few years ago...and it niggles me that, unlike other tech such as games consoles or synths, they never really 'max' out a device with any apps or applications before releasing a new '4x' better model. 

To me, this is an upside of the environment. Old models don't become obsolete so fast. You can likely wait a good number of generations before you really feel you need to upgrade to a new model.

 

2 hours ago, Ibarch said:

What the platform needs is the software. Until the likes of Arturia V collection, Omnisphere, Kompact are available then it will remain a niche product with only challenger level apps. 

 

But till Apple remove the 30% tax for entry and relinquish their death grip on control of software installs, I don't see it happening. 

 

2 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

Well, resellers require margins too, and 30% is far from uncommon, so from that perspective I don't see the problem.

2 hours ago, Ibarch said:

The fact that these libraries do not exist on iPad shows that developers very much see the problem, even if you do not. 

 

I'm with JFN here. There is no evidence that the 30% Apple fee is what keeps them out of the market (especially when they probably give just about as much to Sweetwater, Guitar Center, etc., if you buy the software via that route). There are other factors at play. Including, probably, the fact that, AFAIK, the iPad OS still does not support the same memory architecture for handling huge data sets a la Kontakt. There's also still a marketing side, as developers can be torn between the lower software prices iOS people have come to expect, while not wanting to devalue their main product, either. For example, do you think Omnisphere could charge nearly as much for a truly feature-equivalent iOS version as they do on the desktop? And if they charge much less, does that devalue and/or reduce the sales of their profitable desktop products? My guess... there may be 99 reasons these apps aren't on iOS, but the 30% fee probably ain't one.

 

 

21 minutes ago, adamcz said:

I don't consider $800 to be a cheaper tablet. $400-500 would be nice. I still might get it.

 

It's a cheaper 13" tablet than they've offered before. You wished they made a cheaper 13", this is that, even if it's not as cheap as you'd like.

 

5 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

If that were true, I would genuinely consider an iPad provided the cost is significantly less than a Microsoft Surface. But at $800 upwards, that advantage disappears.

 

If you don't need the 13", you can get a perfectly usable iPad for less than half that. But no, it's not going to give you all you can do with your Surface. Different strengths. If you want to run your omnisphere or keyscape... nope. Of course, that also required spending another $800+ on software. iPad is great bang-for-buck, and easier, but its not going to compete with the higher end capabilities of the PC platform. Apple's answer for that would be "buy a Mac." WHich of course has its own pros and cons.

[analogika]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

My socks are still on my feet so nothing I'm going to be buying.   I was hoping for more about M4 but they just covered the basics, have to wait for WWDC to hear more about the Pro and Max chips design.     Logic for iPad gets stem separator so hope that comes to Logic Pro X soon. 

 

Already announced. Coming May 13th.

[Ibarch]

It is an ongoing frustration that the iPad hardware is more than capable for the job, the price is super competitive and yet the limited OS and availability of fully featured software prevents it being a valid choice. I'm happy with the Surface Pro but the cost puts me off taking it out and about on regular gigs. It's safer when playing in church - at least my church doesn't get so roudy - but otherwise I'm not wanting to use it. A cheaper iPad would do the job well. 

 

There are a multitude of reasons a business considers before launching into new markets and new platforms. My (non audio) commercial experience is that the app store fee is absolutely a factor. The days of boxed software and high retail margins are long gone. Most software vendors want to sell direct. For companies I have worked with, distributors don't dictate a stocking fee or price for on screen shelf space. They buy titles in bulk and can get a discount on a volume purchase. The vendor gets paid straight up and hence doesn't care what the distributor charges the customer after that. The sale has already been done. Why do you think old versions of software titles are sold at discounted prices long after a new version is on the market? In this model, a 30% revenue hit makes a massive difference to profit. It makes the app store market unviable for many businesses. 

 

The only way I see this changing is if there becomes a compelling reason why a vendor must have their product on the app store. If they are losing market share to competitors for example. This makes Logic Pro on iPad interesting. I'm sure there are a number of worried DAW manufacturers keeping an eye on this. They may think it isn't a threat as most Apple users will only buy Logic Pro anyway, so it won't impact their sales. But if two or three other established vendors decide they need an iPad version it may force everyone's hand. Whilst no one does, they are all content to sit and watch. If some break the line, they all have to and they get hit with huge extra costs for a new platform and likely few extra customers to pay for it. Would this be a win for consumers? Maybe for iPad users but maybe not for all as more cost equals less investment for new developments. 

 

A similar issue is with the likes of Omnisphere and Arturia. Whilst virtually no one offers an iPad version, not having one is no issue. If lots of companies followed the Pianoteq license model, the lack of an iPad version is a reason to buy elsewhere. So, whilst none of the big vendors are on iPad, they are all content to stay away. Right now I doubt VSL lose many sales due to Pianoteq iOS. But if EastWest jump in, Spitfire follow, maybe the world would change. 

 

Additionally , if the EU can slowly and surely prise Apple's fingers off its golden goose and force  genuine  competition, this may swing the cost /revenue equation enough for some companies to reconsider. 

 

It won't happen quickly but maybe in a few years things will be different. 

[J.F.N.]

I can assure you that the 30% margin for Apple is not a big problem. And correct, boxed products are dead, instead these days there's a global distribution channel called XChange, who are doing a great job hooking up dealers with manufacturers for online sales and distribution/delivery via APIs used by the resellers. XChange take their cut, and the reseller is basically expecting 30%. There are physical stores using this too (GC for example) but the main thing here is the online sales.

 

I've been in this industry for the last 20 years, and audio software (instruments,  plugins, stand alone software), through retail is an important thing. Direct sales is obviously bigger today than 15 years ago, still, the reach out you get with solid channel sales is crucial for the brand's development and existence, including the sales figures.

 

 

[miden]

I am seriously considering ditching the Mac mini (M2 Pro) and the whole "desktop paradigm" and springing for one of these with the magic keyboard and the pencil....IE go totally over to iOS and using Logic, and the myriad other available iOS audio apps.

[ElmerJFudd]

3 hours ago, miden said:

I am seriously considering ditching the Mac mini (M2 Pro) and the whole "desktop paradigm" and springing for one of these with the magic keyboard and the pencil....IE go totally over to iOS and using Logic, and the myriad other available iOS audio apps.

Might you consider a MacBook Air?  All your software and plugin fx and instruments would migrate with you to a laptop where on iOS/iPad OS you look for represents.