Idle musings: combined ROMpler module and sample pads?

[stoken6]

For most of my "run-of-the-mill" gigs my Nord Stage 2 does the job. Some of the more prestigious pick-up gigs I do require two things:

- "More ROMpler" than the Nord's two synth slots

- One-hit sample playback (think orch hits, rises, FX...)

I was wondering if there's a product that can do both of those? So far the Roland MC101 looks plausible - any others I should look at?

 

MUST:

- Sample playback ("playback to end of sample" and "playback while pad held" is sufficient, no looping required)

- Ability to load user samples

- At least 8 sample pads

- Simultaneous ROMpler playback via MIDI (I'll use Nord Extern sections)

- 5-pin MIDI (not USB, and preferably not mini-TRS)

 

SHOULD:

- Audio in, to avoid needing a mixer. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[B4i]

It doesn't fully meet your brief but I use a Fantom O6 to solve the issues you face. It has 16 sample pads, can load user samples, its got all the roland ROMpler and Zencore stuff and can act be controlled externally from 5 Pin. 

 

The previous Fantom FA06 (so cheaper than the Fantom O6) also had the sample pads albeit wasn't Zencore I don't think. The keybed wasn't as nice either but you don't want the keys so maybe not an issue for you. 

[AnotherScott]

Would you consider an iPad? 

[Sean M. H.]

1 hour ago, B4i said:

It doesn't fully meet your brief but I use a Fantom O6....

 

It doesn't?  Which requirement does it not meet?  Looks like it has everything covered (I haven't had my coffee this morning yet though...so maybe I'm missing something lol)

[J.F.N.]

Could an AKAI MPC One/Live, or even Key 37/61 handle this? It's not a rompler per se, but it for sure has loads of space for sample libraries to fill that function in a very tailored way, and for sure it meets the rest of the requirements.

[ABECK]

+1 on the FA06.  Good bang for buck.  Swiss army keyboard.

[AnotherScott]

37 minutes ago, Sean M. H. said:

 

It doesn't?  Which requirement does it not meet?  Looks like it has everything covered (I haven't had my coffee this morning yet though...so maybe I'm missing something lol)

 

What's probably missing is what's described in the subject line: "module" (i.e. preferable to bringing another keyboard)... which is consistent with his point of reference being a Roland MC101 

[stoken6]

Thanks everyone.

 

2 hours ago, B4i said:

It doesn't fully meet your brief but I use a Fantom O6 to solve the issues you face.

I am aware of the Fantom's ability as a ROMpler (and more), with sample playback pads. It doesn't meet my brief in that it's a keyboard. I have a waterfall Nord as an upper tier, which I like for the ease of access to front-panel controls. I have a weighted action controller underneath it, so the way to go would be to replace it with a Fantom 08. But I don't want an 88 (too big, especially with wheels to the side). If there was a Fantom 00 module, with sample pads, it would be perfect.

 

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Would you consider an iPad? 

I'm already running BandHelper on my iPad. So if there's a way to run a ROMpler app (responding to MIDI) and a sample-playback app (responding to prods of the screen), and BandHelper (sending MIDI) and all three play nicely together, I would consider it.

 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, J.F.N. said:

Could an AKAI MPC One/Live, or even Key 37/61 handle this? It's not a rompler per se, but it for sure has loads of space for sample libraries to fill that function in a very tailored way, and for sure it meets the rest of the requirements.

I've not researched those - thanks for the suggestion. I never thought of AKAI as a ROMpler company. The MPC One does more than I need (CV/gate, for example), and costs more than the MC101, however.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Sean M. H.]

Totally missed the part about it not being a keyboard format...

 

...kinda out of left field, as you'd have to explore the used market--and one could also argue it'd be overkill...but, would something like the Korg M3M be pretty close?  Obviously it's a rompler...has at least some sort of sampling capabilities...has 8 pads (I'm assuming they can trigger samples?)...

 

 

 

 

Korg also makes the electribe, which is a lot closer to the Roland.  But I think it's onboard sounds are mostly drums, loops and analog synth stuff... doesn't really get you to rompler territory (unless I'm mistaken)

 

 

 

[ProfD]

On 4/23/2024 at 10:57 AM, J.F.N. said:

Could an AKAI MPC One/Live, or even Key 37/61 handle this? It's not a rompler per se, but it for sure has loads of space for sample libraries to fill that function in a very tailored way, and for sure it meets the rest of the requirements.

Correct. 

 

The plugins cover every ROMpler sound a gig could require.

 

As mentioned, every other requirement is covered too.

 

It will take some time for most gigging musicians to understand the value/power of MPCs as more than grooveboxes.😎

[stoken6]

19 hours ago, Sean M. H. said:

Totally missed the part about it not being a keyboard format...

 

...kinda out of left field, as you'd have to explore the used market--and one could also argue it'd be overkill...but, would something like the Korg M3M be pretty close?  Obviously it's a rompler...has at least some sort of sampling capabilities...has 8 pads (I'm assuming they can trigger samples?)...

 

 

 

 

Korg also makes the electribe, which is a lot closer to the Roland.  But I think it's onboard sounds are mostly drums, loops and analog synth stuff... doesn't really get you to rompler territory (unless I'm mistaken)

 

 

 

Thanks Sean, the M3M is the kind of thing I would never have thought of. Pricey though, even s/h.

 

I did look at the electribes, but their ROMpler capabilities seem limited, as you say.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:57 AM, stoken6 said:

I'm already running BandHelper on my iPad. So if there's a way to run a ROMpler app (responding to MIDI) and a sample-playback app (responding to prods of the screen), and BandHelper (sending MIDI) and all three play nicely together, I would consider it.

 

I see no reason you wouldn't be able to run a rompler app (Korg Module or whatever), a sample playback app, and bandhelper at the same time. The complication I see is that while the rompler could run in the background (i.e. you don't necessarily need to have it visible during use), you do need to see the sampler app (in order to tap its on-screen pads) and bandhelper (in order to navigate your set lists, charts, etc.). If you have an iPad that can run Stage Manager, that could work, i.e. with each of those apps taking a portion of the screen but both always visible) 

[stoken6]

5 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I see no reason you wouldn't be able to run a rompler app (Korg Module or whatever), a sample playback app, and bandhelper at the same time. The complication I see is that while the rompler could run in the background (i.e. you don't necessarily need to have it visible during use), you do need to see the sampler app (in order to tap its on-screen pads) and bandhelper (in order to navigate your set lists, charts, etc.). If you have an iPad that can run Stage Manager, that could work, i.e. with each of those apps taking a portion of the screen but both always visible) 

Thanks Scott. My iPad won't do Stage Manager, but it will do Split View - so I could run two (visible) apps simultaneously. However, on dep (US: "sub") gigs, I need the full screen of the iPad to display charts. 

 

I guess I could run Kodule+Bandhelper on my iPad, and SampleBot/Koala/whatever on my phone. The challenge there is that I would then need a mixer to combine my keyboard, Rompler and sampler audio - I'm trying to avoid the extra setup complexity. I'm also hoping that a single USB MIDI connection linking Nord to iPad can be shared between apps (IN from Bandhelper, OUT to Kodule).

 

Kodule+Sampler on my phone/Bandhelper on my iPad solves the screen problem, and saves one audio channel, but brings its own complications. My Nord Stage taking MIDI in on 5-pin DIN from a controller, and MIDI in on USB from BandHelper. I would need MIDI out from the Nord to Kodule - Korg PlugKey I guess, until my lightning-equipped phone is replaced with a USBC alternative...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Woodward]

Way off your ‘spec list’ but, in a pinch, Korg Module can trigger one hit samples as long as they are in an audio format i.e. MP3. I tried to replicate the wave trigger function of the Yamaha CK and it worked so I had the Sledgehammer and Queens one vision intros etc. Additionally, Gadget could be set to have gadgets that receive on all 16 channels and, with a controller that has pads, they could be set to trigger individual sounds or samples.

Cheap and flexible option maybe.

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Thanks Scott. My iPad won't do Stage Manager, but it will do Split View - so I could run two (visible) apps simultaneously. However, on dep (US: "sub") gigs, I need the full screen of the iPad to display charts. 

 

I guess I could run Kodule+Bandhelper on my iPad, and SampleBot/Koala/whatever on my phone. The challenge there is that I would then need a mixer to combine my keyboard, Rompler and sampler audio - I'm trying to avoid the extra setup complexity. I'm also hoping that a single USB MIDI connection linking Nord to iPad can be shared between apps (IN from Bandhelper, OUT to Kodule).

 

Kodule+Sampler on my phone/Bandhelper on my iPad solves the screen problem, and saves one audio channel, but brings its own complications. My Nord Stage taking MIDI in on 5-pin DIN from a controller, and MIDI in on USB from BandHelper. I would need MIDI out from the Nord to Kodule - Korg PlugKey I guess, until my lightning-equipped phone is replaced with a USBC alternative...

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Hmmm...  maybe you could use the iPhone to trigger the samples running on the iPad's sampler app, sending MIDI over bluetooth (so still not needing to run any more wires)? For example... 

 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Hmmm...  maybe you could use the iPhone to trigger the samples running on the iPad's sampler app, sending MIDI over bluetooth (so still not needing to run any more wires)? For example... 

 

Good thinking, although I'm worried about the number of moving (software) parts that would need to reliably operate in the heat of battle, at the most stressful gigs. 

 

And the iPad would need to simultaneously send USB MIDI (BandHelper),  receive USB Midi (Kodule, or other ROMpler app) and receive Bluetooth MIDI (Sampler app). Is that possible? 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, stoken6 said:

And the iPad would need to simultaneously send USB MIDI (BandHelper),  receive USB Midi (Kodule, or other ROMpler app) and receive Bluetooth MIDI (Sampler app). Is that possible? 

I'm pretty certain the answer is yes. 

[AnotherScott]

Here's another possibility... the new Yamaha Seqtrak can function as a MIDI sound module, providing up to 3 simultaneous sounds (2 AWM2 sampled sounds, 1 FM sound), each on their own MIDI channel (and individually recallable via MIDI, I believe), and it also has a one-shot sample function that can be used simultaneously, which I know little about, but is demonstrated in the video below. I think a given project can have 7 sampled sounds triggered from those front panel buttons, and I think you have 8 recallable projects, so that may or may not be enough for your sample purposes. (You said at least 8 pads, this is 7, but you have multiple banks of them.)

 

 

[CyberGene]

Out of curiosity I started watching the above video and man, I really envy people who can learn how to use something that has no screen and thus expects you to remember hundreds of button combinations, some of which are not even labeled… 

[AnotherScott]

You don't need to remember, you can look at paper, or your screen on another device to see (for example) these legends for the buttons when used for category select...

 

[J.F.N.]

Was it Roland XV-5080 that could load user samples as well?

 

What about sourcing a used 5080 and any midi drumpad with MIDI DIN ?

 

At least then you get some gear, for not a fortune, that you can have good use of in other contexts later on as well.

[niacin]

1 hour ago, J.F.N. said:

 

Was it Roland XV-5080 that could load user samples as well?

 

no, it was the Fantom Xr.  If you buy one s/h keep in mind the screen is notorious for dying and requiring a replacement.

[J.F.N.]

22 minutes ago, niacin said:

no, it was the Fantom Xr.  If you buy one s/h keep in mind the screen is notorious for dying and requiring a replacement.

 

I will have to correct you here, XV-5080 is indeed a sample player into which you can load up to 128 mb (SIMM) of samples.

 

(Doubt beat me to Google it...)

 

 

[niacin]

11 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

 

I will have to correct you here, XV-5080 is indeed a sample player into which you can load up to 128 mb (SIMM) of samples.

 

(Doubt beat me to Google it...)

 

 

thx, happy to be corrected 👍.

I might add Roland’s sample management system on their boards is very straight forward to use, much easier than e.g. Korg. The sampler in the Fantom Xr can be expanded to 512mb.  I really wish they’d carried it over to the Integra.

[J.F.N.]

3 minutes ago, niacin said:

thx, happy to be corrected 👍.

I might add Roland’s sample management system on their boards is very straight forward to use, much easier than e.g. Korg.  I really wish they’d carried it over to the Integra.

 

If I understand things correctly there's even an auto load option making it load the samples when the machine boots up, how neat!

[AnotherScott]

Those Roland modules have sample memory for loading keyboard playable sounds. AFAIK, they don't give you a way to trigger 1-shot samples from their control surfacesl, which is what the OP is looking for.

[niacin]

true, i think it came up cause of the suggestion about using an iPad AND an iPhone.  

 

But yeh a Roland MC-101 would do the job, though i found the interface a bit convoluted due to the small size and i hated the workflow, editing sounds was a total pita.

[J.F.N.]

28 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Those Roland modules have sample memory for loading keyboard playable sounds. AFAIK, they don't give you a way to trigger 1-shot samples from their control surfacesl, which is what the OP is looking for.

 

Envelope sustain to keep the note running even with a short trig, and trigger using any midi pad controller sending note number, but yeah, I'm sure there's other ways of doing it with less deep diving...

[AnotherScott]

15 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

 

Envelope sustain to keep the note running even with a short trig, and trigger using any midi pad controller sending note number, but yeah, I'm sure there's other ways of doing it with less deep diving...

right, and with one device rather than two (being a module plus a midi pad controller), since simplicity and keeping wiring minimal is also part of the goal.