Korg Keystage

[Paul Woodward]

All went very quiet after a topic where this board was leaked, and I see the board is readily available everywhere now, but can’t seem to find many reviews. Has anyone managed to play on one yet?

I see it will power from a USB C iPad, but needs an external power supply if using the lightning connector. Interesting that you can integrate an iPad into it so it could essentially be a Korg keyboard (assuming the use of Korg apps, but you could run anything on there). Shame they haven’t updated any of their apps to make use of the Poly AT.

[DeltaJockey]

I purchased one a while back. I asked some questions about it on this forum, but was met with silence too, so guessed no one else had any experience with them yet.

 

I think it's a well designed piece of kit for my application. For me it's a keeper. I got the 61 key version. The CC control array is well laid out, (very similar to the control panel on my Montage, including the sub display style of Oled), and most functions are easy to access. The keybed is very expressive for a synth action, even for piano. I have a DS1H half damper pedal plugged in, which it supports. It has a more than average amount of adjustablity with it's velocity curves. Medeli actions are surprisingly good in my opinion.

 

I don't use it with an iPad, only with a Macbook though. It self powers with no problems, and the built in USB audio is very convenient, (though only 16/44), giving me an incredibly compact, but fully functioning portable studio. Paired with my Montage ESP software, and the poly AT, it's my way of having a Montage M6x.

 

I do have the Korg legacy software, and I was way back considering purchasing the Wavestate native, so this was a way of getting the fully functioning version bundled in,

which does respond to PAT by the way.

 

When compared to the NI Komplete Control Mk3, if you don't need the large display, it's so much more compact, with similar functionality.

 

 

[Paul Woodward]

Great to hear from someone who owns one.

Would you know if it can output midi over 5 pin DIN and USB at the same time?

just thinking if it would control something like Korg Module on the iPad while also playing internal sounds from Stage piano (Korg Grandstage).

I don’t really have a specific use for it right now, but wanted to play around with some MPE units and Poly AT in Logic and it’s fairly future proof with Midi 2.0 and Poly AT (also, do any other controller boards integrate audio over USB?)
I do hope Korg update their apps and that they expand functionality (dual midi channels would be great) on the Keystage.

[DeltaJockey]

5 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

Would you know if it can output midi over 5 pin DIN and USB at the same time?

Yes. As you should expect from a device that is also advertised as an on stage controller. I tried it with a MIDI connection to my Summit while playing a vst piano simultaneously on my laptop via usb.....so iPad and Grandstage would be the textbook application from Korg!

 

5 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

(also, do any other controller boards integrate audio over USB?)

Other than digital pianos, I know of no other controller with this. The last lightweight keyboard that came the closest to this for me was the Numa Compact 2X.

 

This is one of the things I have been wishing for a long time. A controller only and all it's associated functionality with a built in interface. For me the point was to have full studio functionality condensed into a single package. The Keystage and its included shelf, Laptop sitting on it, and a pair of headphones, (or small monitors), gives me motel style fully functional studioness, in a small case. Which is why I was hoping the action was the thing that wouldn't let me down. Thankfully, Its' good to me.

This in my view is why it appears a little more expensive than some other controllers, except the NI KK Mk3. With the Komplete Kontrol, you can see out front what else you get for the extra money, but the Keystage benefits are more subtle, and you have to play with it to appreciate the niceties. Not forgetting too, the implementation of MIDI 2.0.

which I yet to have much use for. Though, Wavestate LE utilises it for the parameter display.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

39 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

Other than digital pianos, I know of no other controller with this. The last lightweight keyboard that came the closest to this for me was the Numa Compact 2X.

 

iRig Keys I/O - but I'm not a fan of non-standard connectors.

[DeltaJockey]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

iRig Keys I/O - but I'm not a fan of non-standard connectors.

Yes, I would expect standard connectors, otherwise it sort of would defeat the simplistic goal I'm trying to achieve. Also, they are way too short keywise. 61 would be the minimum I'd settle for. This to me, is why the Keystage is attractive too, as for portability, it sits in the sweet spot. 88 synth keys can be a bit unwieldy for transport, 49 too restrictive for piano playing.

 

Then there's 73/76, but no compact controllers with that combination of features that I know of there either. I've yet to see someone produce a fold-up 88 with USB audio interface. Then again, the action would be lacking, so back to a decent 61 with good synth action.👍

[Paul Woodward]

A UK store are offering 5% off the 61 key (£550) and 10% off the 49 (£450). I’m guessing the latter isn’t selling as well.

I'm not gigging, and have the GS connected to my DAW (and for practice), but for some reason I’m toying with grabbing one to play around with.
Three things make this stand out for me:

Poly aftertouch (and a decent keybed) and aftertouch that actually works

Midi 2.0

Audio interface to integrate the iPad which I loved on the YC and CK61

Wavestate LE is not a bad extra either

Must control these urges, although I did want a ‘smaller’ board so I might get more use from my iPad Pro as a music sketch pad, but I was thinking of a little desktop board for that.

I know that, if I did gig with it, the 49 would end up being too small, but the 61 is a bit big as a spare desktop board.

[DeltaJockey]

I find the 61 to be a good size for "sketchpadding" around the house too. As I was saying before, 49 wouldn't be enough for me even if I only had enough room for that. I need something long enough to use for both handed arps or chords with piano.

 

I might add, that I think it is a good keybed for a synth action, but it IS still a compromise compared to a weighted action for piano, not so much a compromise in its expressiveness, but the weighting balance to the fingers. Interestingly, with the way I have the velocity settings, the key triggering is really quite sensitive, and triggers quite high up for a non weighted action. The sensor must be placed quite early in the travel. Korg seem to be pretty skilled at getting good responses from 2 sensor actions, as the RH3 in my opinion is better than some 3 sensor actions, which may be better for re-triggering, but the initial trigger can be quite low down making it feel a bit dulled.

It's the same keybed as my Novation Summit, and Hydrasynth, which was my way of making the decision to buy the Keystage without trying it out first, as I was playing around with my Summit as a controller for a while, and managed to tweak it to my liking. The Keystage has more velocity adjustments than the Summit, which also only has channel aftertouch. Of course, it's only my opinion on this, it's feel may vary between folk, but the keys are definitely better than some of the cheap controller actions out there. I think anyone who owns a Summit, (or HydraSynth), would agree that the synth keybed is one of the better ones currently on offer.

 

[Paul Woodward]

@DeltaJockey Thanks for the update, just ordered one with a 14 day return option 🙂

Compromise on a weighted board is not a problem as I have the GS for that and I like that this setup could be a quick gig or rehearsal setup using the gear I already own (stands, iPad, speaker etc) so it’s not an expensive outlay. If need be, I could add it to the GS and iPad to make a decent setup (GS sounds great, and Korg apps are very useable). I’m not gigging, and certainly wouldn’t be going pro if I did, so this is more than enough to get through a gig.

I’m also keen to explore my DAW (Logic) a bit more and hoping that midi 2.0 and poly AT might get me playing around with some of the better apps in there. I assume Wavestate LE is the full version in terms of sounds even if it’s limited to one instance in the DAW?

Is the Gadget Producer Bundle as expansive as the IOS version?

I have heard some reviewers question if it is the Hydrasynth keybed or just the polytouch name that was licensed. As an owner of both, can you confirm they are the same keybed?

[DeltaJockey]

I still own the Summit, but sold the Hydrasynth some time back. Certainly the Summit key plastics feel and look identical, even in shape to the Keystage. I think I recall the Hydrasynth feeling the same.

I've not heard the talk of it just being licenced, so you may be up on this more then me. In any case, it feels ok to me, whoever produced it.

I don't use the producer bundle, but I believe it is missing some modules from the paid version. You would see this by looking at the Korg site.

The Wavestate LE is fully loaded, the only limitation is the one instance.

 

One thing I like about the controller knob array, is that the whole 128 cc parameters are just a few clicks away. though you can re-assign them in what ever order you like.

I like the 16 scenes you can store with different combinations of controller mapping. I pretty universal way of setting these things up these days.

 

I don't tend to use the arp or chord functions, and mainly just get into playing it, when I'm not enjoying my Montage M8x 😀

 

I hope you enjoy it. I will be interested in your experience with it too.

[Paul Woodward]

Just arrived. Very well packed and I'm liking the keybed. Keybed is a little noisier than expected, but very firm and responsive. Korg Apps really work well with this too.

Weirdly, mine powered from the iPad using Lightning cable. According to the manual it should need a power supply unless running off a USB C iPad. Still, not complaining at all. Played with a few iPad apps and you can really get more expression with poly AT...was a nice surprise. Will update the firmware and try with Logic and the Pro on USB C later, as well as midi'd to the Grandstage.

 

[ProfD]

21 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Will update the firmware and try with Logic later.

Congrats in picking up the Korg KeyStage. If it's a keeper, you may want to update your signature line as well.😉😎

[Paul Woodward]

49 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Congrats in picking up the Korg KeyStage. If it's a keeper, you may want to update your signature line as well.😉😎

I have a poor track record of keeping boards that don't make a sound, but out of the box I'm impressed and there was a noticeable lag playing from the YC, CK and Roland A800 which put me off using an iPad. As mentioned in another thread, playing from a Grandstage was a much better experience as is this. Clearly Korg know how best to control their apps. I like the idea of a 'future proof' board that can get new features and that has a good poly at keybed. Doesn't feel like it will go out of date in a hurry, so maybe this will last longer...😜

I wonder if they can add the ability to run usb and din midi on different channels, maybe add a split option. It is pitched as a performance board after all, and Korg are good at finding new tricks hidden in their hardware.

[Paul Woodward]

There are a few topics now discussing iPad as a serious musical instrument. Gear like the Keystage feels like another step closer to getting that setup simple and effective.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

Weirdly, mine powered from the iPad using Lightning cable. According to the manual it should need a power supply unless running off a USB C iPad.

 

Just to be clear (for me!): your CCK (and Keystage) is powered from the iPad's battery only, or is it connected to power? My A800 throws up the "not enough power to run this device" alert unless the CCK is powered.

[Paul Woodward]

16 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Just to be clear (for me!): your CCK (and Keystage) is powered from the iPad's battery only, or is it connected to power? My A800 throws up the "not enough power to run this device" alert unless the CCK is powered.

The photos above are an iPad 9 connected to the Keystage via a USB cable and CCK, no other power at all. I also have the newer Lighting to USB Camera Adaptor with the  Lightning power input, but this is the standard one. I know the iPad Pro will power the board over USB C, but the manual says you need a manual if using the CCK. Maybe they updated it somehow, but my board is still on factory 1.03 and this is a 9th Gen iPad (last one with a headphone socket and Lightning)...

I had a similar issue with my A800 mate, but its a really old board now (albeit a good one) so who know what new tech can do on low power. My A800 is happily living a new life in Oxford now 🙂 

[Reezekeys]

OK I get it - the original USB2 CCK with just the USB jack to lightning, no power. I have the 9G iPad but the newer USB3 CCK with power. My A800 won't run off my iPad's battery, the CCK has to be connected to power. I would probably connect it to power even if it did work without, just for peace of mind.

[Paul Woodward]

I will try the USB3 CCK just to see if it works with both. I would normally use that one if I were playing for any length of time but, as long as the fully charged iPad runs for 4-5 hours thats more than enough and nice to think I could play in the middle of a lawn nowhere near a power supply as long as I had a battery powered speaker. Buskers delight, although perhaps a bit overkill for that 😉

[Reezekeys]

This is interesting - the A800 manual says it draws 300ma. I just googled the Keystage manual and see this:

 

 

By this account the A800 should be less power-hungry.

[Paul Woodward]

It does say 'or less'. I have no idea mate, I was looking around for a power supply or cable to connect when the Keystage magically powered up. Lets see if it happens again later once I finish work 😉

[Paul Woodward]

Well, that is strange. USB C works as expected but the CCK3 won’t power the Keystage unless I put in a charging cable as well. It doesn’t need much (just plugged it into one of those mains wall sockets with USB ports).

However, the normal CCK does power the board despite what the manual says. Very strange, but a welcome if unexpected feature.

[DeltaJockey]

Glad you like it so far. Your application with it is a bit different to mine. I will only be using it with a Macbook. Sounds like you may not be using the 2 week return then 😀

 

If you think this keybed is a little noisy, I have a Nektar which I'm trying to offload. Though the key response is acceptable, the clacking makes it unusable even with headphones.

I think the keystage is about as quiet as it gets from today's mid quality synth actions. Yes, I can slap keys when playing rapidly, but it's a little more of a muted sound than many other unacceptable actions.

Just remember to go easy on the AT pressure. For some odd reason, they make a note in the manual that it can wear out if abused too heavily. Hmm, I wonder what the call heavy? I have my AT sensitivity set quite high, which doesn't seem to interfere with my general playing. In anycase, most of my patches don't respond to AT anyway, so having the sensitivity high isn't a problem.

[Paul Woodward]

Indeed, the box is up in the loft and the codes have been redeemed so return isn’t an option…still, I see no need to. It fits my needs and I like the quality. I lost myself for hours playing around with Pigments and Wavestate, a bit longer in Gadget and Module on the iPad. This is what I really wanted it for, to rediscover gear I already had and enjoy playing. 

[Paul Woodward]

On a slightly different note, when depressing the notes, I can just see that each key has a spring slot at the top which reassures me that this is more of an old school keybed construction than the disappointment which was the YC61. This feels more like the Roland A series controllers but with more resistance and spring, plus aftertouch that actually works without needing a ridiculous amount of pressure. I never used the pads, only the sliders on the A800 so the knobs on the KS could be mapped to drawbars if necessary.

[DeltaJockey]

Yes, one thing I don't like is those keys with the bendy plastic hinges. I'm pretty sure this is a proper key hinge. It certainly feels like it. I would hope Korg have learnt the lesson from a few years back when they put those horrible thin twisty keybeds in the likes of the KingKorg, Krome 61, and Kross 61.

[Paul Woodward]

4 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

Yes, one thing I don't like is those keys with the bendy plastic hinges. I'm pretty sure this is a proper key hinge. It certainly feels like it. I would hope Korg have learnt the lesson from a few years back when they put those horrible thin twisty keybeds in the likes of the KingKorg, Krome 61, and Kross 61.

Sadly Yamaha never got that memo....

[Paul Woodward]

@DeltaJockey I'm away from home but pondering some connection options. Any idea how the Midi in works? Does it transmit incoming data to either midi out or over USB (or both?)

It's not covered at all in the manual as far as I can see.

[DeltaJockey]

14 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

@DeltaJockey I'm away from home but pondering some connection options. Any idea how the Midi in works? Does it transmit incoming data to either midi out or over USB (or both?)

It's not covered at all in the manual as far as I can see.

Actually, I have no idea. When I get a chance I'll have a bit of a look. Wouldn't it just merge with midi in USB? Without looking, I'm guessing they appear as separate ports in the MIDI setup app. I don't have an application for midi in atm.

[Stokely]

There's a note in the manual that the aftertouch can wear out?  Wow.  I owned a Virus that at the time was about 15 years old and pretty obviously used (if not abused) and the aftertouch worked great.  Granted, it was regular channel aftertouch.  If the manufacturer is admitting that up front that would have me worried.   

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

There's a note in the manual that the aftertouch can wear out?  Wow.  I owned a Virus that at the time was about 15 years old and pretty obviously used (if not abused) and the aftertouch worked great.  Granted, it was regular channel aftertouch.  If the manufacturer is admitting that up front that would have me worried.   

Perhaps it was aimed at owners of the Roland A800 😉