Anthony Marinelli channel

[jazzpiano88]

3 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Mark's cool. But your link to that thread reminded me of the perfect example of what I and others are talking about in regards to the software / digital vs hardware / analog debate. 

This picture says it all:

Just looking at that gives me anxiety and fills me with dread. I have absolutely no interest in tweaking those tiny skeuomorphic controls or trying to decipher the miniscule text.

 

@Dave Bryce was using the Slate Raven to control it as well as his CA OB-8.   I wonder how close this gets to operating the real thing? 

[Tusker]

3 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Mark's cool. But your link to that thread reminded me of the perfect example of what I and others are talking about in regards to the software / digital vs hardware / analog debate. 

This picture says it all:

Just looking at that gives me anxiety and fills me with dread. I have absolutely no interest in tweaking those tiny skeuomorphic controls or trying to decipher the miniscule text. Yes, the interface can be resized but it's a prime example of why accurately depicting the panel and controls of analog synths in the digital / plugin world is fraught with ergonomic issues.

To solve this, developers should offer both the skeuomorphic interface but also a modern skin with tabs for different sections, optimized controls, more easily readable text, etc. Take advantage of the digital realm instead of trying to shoehorn the analog into it. For example, yes of course the original CS80 had a ribbon but why take up space with a 'virtual one' in the interface? Are you really going to rock out on that tiny ribbon with your mouse?

This same line of thinking can be applied to many things that have been fully digitized. Why is album art still square? Why aren't labels and artists using the full capabilities of the smartphone format, since that's how the vast majority of people listen to music now? Why isn't album art interactive, moving, with different sections for 'artist notes', credits, photos from the sessions, etc? 

Technology has advanced so far and I feel like we're still stuck in a 1980s mindset when it comes to interacting with it.

 

 

 

 

Hey Jim, Thanks for your post and for clarifying some of your complaints about In-The-Box synths. Your complaints are valid and without meaning to pander, I share many of your feelings.

 

Let's take the GX80 for example. I am looking at it right now and even on my favorite 27 inch monitor, I agree it's not inviting me to patch. The Ribbon actually works on my 5 inch trackpad and I am grateful for that. But I'd suggest that the GX80 is not representative of ITB synths. It's an epic miniaturization of possibly the largest hardware polysynth ever made: a 500lb monster. Mark Barton made it sound great. That’s not to say that all other ITB synths look great. However many do. The best interfaces are generally not the emulations, in my experience. Pigments is very informative. Massive X is clean and inviting. The new Zebralette 3 beta is very intuitive.

 

But let’s be real. Interface problems aren’t just limited to virtual synths are they? Take the JX8P, a glorious pad and brass analog synth which I loved to gig and hated to program.

 

I am generally not finding that ITB is stuck in the 1980s. On the contrary, with the better developers, it's getting better at exponential rates. It helps to have controllers (knobby or otherwise) to suck out the musical expression. I use a Touché, trackpads and sometimes a breath controller. It’s an exciting time to be making music.

 

[AROIOS]

11 hours ago, konaboy said:

Indeed, the mousewheel never works great in my experience for plugin control.  for some synths the knob moves too much for each wheel increment, and for others it's painfully slow so you have to spin the mousewheel for ages just to get a small parameter change. and the software vendors of the plugins have yet to make that a preference setting.

 

and let's be honest, rolling a mouse wheel is not the same satisfying experience as turning a quality knob. That's how we are used to editing synths, hence my original proposal for the Woody "Hover Knob" .

The frustration you mentioned with mouse wheels is not a problem of "wheels" per se. We are gonna run into exactly the same experience if a "knob" alternative has the same low-resolution encoders.
 

Wheels and knobs are both rotary controls and share most of the same benefits of easy acceleration/deceleration and fine adjustments.
 

Advantages of wheels are: 1) concealment, most wheel controls only expose a small portion of their perimeters to engage finger tips; 2) needing only 1 finger to control;
 

The advantage of knobs is the slightly finer control offered by the coordination among more than 1 finger. It's basically the same kind of difference between calligraphy with pen attached to one finger vs. pen controlled by three fingers plus a bit of help from the wrist.
 

None of my synth tweaking require calligraphy-level finesse. The current problems with mouse wheels, are low resolution and inconsistent response curve across apps, as we both noted.
 

If you are geeky enough, there's a PC software called ScrollNavigator that tries to address the response/acceleration curve problem. I find it helpful in scrolling through long web pages/documents. But garbage in garbage out, there's only so much magic we can squeeze out of  the roughly 7 clicks/pulses generated by a full mouse wheel push/pull.
 

What we need, well, what I need, as I mentioned above, are 1) higher resolution on the mouse wheel encoder, 2) consistent or adjustable acceleration response curves across apps. These two simple improvements would greatly increase productivity across tons of areas.
 

BTW, you can Shift+Scroll for increments of 10 on most Roland soft synths. That should really become industry standard.

[Thethirdapple]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:38 AM, Thethirdapple said:

Side-note: How is this not a thing ?

Why aren’t there any foot faders as a control surface?  While there are a few known custom builds with mostly switches I can’t find any historical trace of any commercially available… Not even an expression pedal board with more than two pedals! Has anybody ever tried?

 

 

I stand corrected, after a bit more scratching around... this came out of the woodwork at me!

 

 

 

PEACE

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[jazzpiano88]

On 3/7/2024 at 3:44 PM, jazzpiano88 said:

On 3/7/2024 at 12:26 PM, Jim Alfredson said:

Mark's cool. But your link to that thread reminded me of the perfect example of what I and others are talking about in regards to the software / digital vs hardware / analog debate. 

This picture says it all:

Just looking at that gives me anxiety and fills me with dread. I have absolutely no interest in tweaking those tiny skeuomorphic controls or trying to decipher the miniscule text.

 

Expand  

@Dave Bryce was using the Slate Raven to control it as well as his CA OB-8.   I wonder how close this gets to operating the real thing? 

 

 

Sorry for replying to my own post, but after looking at their products, the Slate controllers seem like an awesome solution to some of the "knobiness" issues discussed in this thread.  And the price looks reasonable.

 

https://raven.stevenslateaudio.com/raven-mti2/

 

 

[Floyd Tatum]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:26 AM, Jim Alfredson said:

Just looking at that gives me anxiety and fills me with dread. I have absolutely no interest in tweaking those tiny skeuomorphic controls or trying to decipher the miniscule text.

- snip -

Cool - I just learned a new word - skeuomorphic.   Good one!

[GovernorSilver]

YESSSSS!!! More content coming!  

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

 

[J.F.N.]

 

Marinelli's really great, interesting topics, the guy knows his game and has his ego in the right place, au contraire to what we can say about Beato (can't stand him).

[PianoMan51]

Maybe this isn’t in line with the discussion.  But…

 

I’m piano man because at the end of the day my internal musical spirit finds the acoustic piano the most simpatico.

 

Still, I’ve played a s%%% load of synths over the years and always had a feeling of them being tools to create a certain sound to fit into a certain song. When I’m done creating the patch and practicing the riff, I’m done. Analog and digital. Didn’t hear much difference. Little personal attachment.

 

The Moog Matriarch changed my attitude.

[Tusker]

@GovernorSilver Loved the P-Thugg video. Thanks!